The biggest thing I remember about handicapped or terminaly ill people (like cancer) is that they always said...
"It is available to heal them if your believing is in the right place..."
In other words if you tried to heal them and and couldnt, then you sucked because you didn't have enough faith. The funny part was, those who professed that seemed to me to have a 'holier than thou' attitude as if they had that type of believing, and you obviously didnt.
I know this because I had a very good friend in high school that had terminal cancer. I went to him with all this TWI dialogue like "it is available to be healed if you believe...I am the man of God that can heal you..." yadda yadda....my God was I stupid....
Needless to say he would not speak to me after that and died shortly after...Why couldnt I have just spent the lst few days/weeks just being his friend??? I still struggle greatly with that....
What I always wondered was ...if they were so well tapped into Gods power, then why the hell didn't they get off their 'holier than thou' arse and do it themselves???
every now and then i'd be at a TWI function and i'd see a handicap or disabeled person...
when i was a kid-- im ashamed to say this-- i used to be kind of happy when i'd see a handicap or disabled person, because i thought that when we heal them, the whole world would believe then convert... was this just me? or did other people think that...
it was confusing to me as a young kid as to why they didn't get healed. people would always talk about healing when they were around, i bet that got annoying as hell to the person.
any of you have stories/personal experiances with any hadicaped disabled people situations in twi?
You are not alone on this one.
It's what I like to call "trophy mentality". I don't know where I got the term but I think it describes the situation in a very concise manner.
In the first twig I was in, we had someone who was missing an arm." Hey! kids! let's all believe for total restoration. Wouldn't that be a great trophy to show how we believed a miracle into being!" Ummm, no. It's just cruel to give this person false hope; not false in the sense that God can't heal, but false in the sense that we could somehow "believe" it into fruition. If God wants to give a person deliverance, that's his business and our believing can't alter the result either way.
Then there was the friend of mine who took his own life. I was the one who found him. "If I had been 'listening to God', I could have raised him from the dead". Wouldn't that be a great big feather in The Ways' cap? TROPHY MENTALITY!
Then there was another friend who suffered a chronic and very severe disability. He went to ROA looking for deliverance but instead passed away in the motel room. Shame on us. "Where was our believing?" We made The Way look bad by our inability to "believe" for deliverance.
Hey, I could go on and on but I don't want to hog the screen. Oh, and let's not forget that if you aspired to becoming a "leader", the physical image you presented to the world should be one that represented perfection so if you "didn't clean up too good", as my Grandpa used to say, your opportunities were somewhat limited.
You are not alone on this one. It's what I like to call "trophy mentality". I don't know where I got the term but I think it describes the situation in a very concise manner.
In the first twig I was in, we had someone who was missing an arm." Hey! kids! let's all believe for total restoration. Wouldn't that be a great trophy to show how we believed a miracle into being!" Ummm, no. It's just cruel to give this person false hope; not false in the sense that God can't heal, but false in the sense that we could somehow "believe" it into fruition. If God wants to give a person deliverance, that's his business and our believing can't alter the result either way.
Then there was the friend of mine who took his own life. I was the one who found him. "If I had been 'listening to God', I could have raised him from the dead". Wouldn't that be a great big feather in The Ways' cap? TROPHY MENTALITY!
Wow Waysider -
That is the best description that I have had in a long time for somthing I have felt and could not put words to....
...any of you have stories/personal experiances with any hadicaped disabled people situations in twi?
I have a VERY VIVID memory of a Corps Night teaching where LCM referred to the Special Olympics athletes as “freaks of nature.” It really chaps my hide to think about that now – and even back then his statement didn’t sit right with me.
I the last area I was in there was a very disabled woman who had been in twi for a long time. She was a very sweet woman and I can only imagine what went on inside her in light of the Law of Believing teaching.
My step dad got a cronic disease in the middle of his life and I know he is still believing for deliverance. He has dealt with this teaching as well. Mrs. Weirwille even prayed for him. He asked one of our LC what was up. Why wasn't he being healed? This is a corps grad (my stepdad) and a very positive believing type of guy. The LC told him that in order for deliverances like his and like the other lady I mentioned above to happen, the collective believing of the whole ministry had to kick it up a few notches. It was our fault, I guess.
How exactly do you believe more if you already don't have any doubts concerning God's ability to heal? How does that jive with Matthew 21:22 and the way they taught the "say unto this mountain" teaching a dozen other verses they use for the Law of Believing. Is diabetes more of a job for God than moving a mountain into the sea? It doesn't jive with their Acts teachings either. It was only the second section of Acts that the lame man was healed. Yet somehow we were in the Pomised Land of the Prevailing Word.
All of my TWI time was spent with a rather wonderful woman, named Kathy. She had, and still does have a tremendous faith in God, and she is always willing to share it with others...almost to a fault. She somehow met a guy who had an injury which left him a quadropelegic (Sp?) anyway his name was David and we spent quite a bit of time together. One time I'll never forget he looked at me and said, "I like hanging out with you, because when I'm with you I forget that I'm injured...I feel whole." I damn near drove off the road, isn't that what it's all about? Connecting with others, to a point that they forget their pain, if only for a moment?
Another time he looked me in the eye and said "This injury is the best thing that ever happened to me, before I got hurt, I was a real ....". That is just sobering, and has stayed with me for a good 25 years.
it is like parents who live off the fact their children made the fourth grade honor role .
God love isnt conditional like people can be.
He is love.
the fact the bible metions how someone looks remember in class how vpw said he got dressed properly and cleaned up to meet the man of God??? um no I think it is just the guy dressed and had little to do with who he was meeting.
how do they inject what they think and blow it up to worship men?
little ways. like that.
now every one has to clena up and dress in competition with the rest.
the fact the bible talks about a person stature is interesting.. some small some big some this or that... and many not at all perfect.... I think it shows God recognizes we are a people with differnt looks and abilities.. and i to think a real tragic even in my life changed it for the better.
no I wouldnt wish my drama on anyone BUT I would not go back and NOT have it happen if I could now and most would freak out with what happened to me.
God lves us right where we are at in life mentaly physicly and in every way possible.
all these teaching teach how to worship man in his own image.
Remember the man at the Beautiful gate of the temple? Jesus must have passed him many times. Peter and John must have passed him many times without being able to heal him. Thankfully, he did eventually get deliverance, but was he the only cripple at the temple? I doubt it. The man Jesus healed at the pool in Bethsaida wasn't the only person needing deliverance. Was he the only one with faith to be healed? Maybe, but again I doubt it. Faith is certainly a necessary condition for deliverance, but it apparently isn't a sufficient condition.
I have debated whether or not to reply to this thread.
While I have posted openly about my son's condition, and the general response to it, there are some things I've not said. Because they fit with the main thrust of this thread, I've decided to comment.
The most hurtful and profoundly ignorant statement made to me, uttered by the BC/LC in the presence of my FC, their respective families and myself was simply this: "Your initial mistake, like Eve, was to question during your pregnancy that something could go wrong. Your second mistake was placing too much trust in the medical establishment. While it is good that you've acted on your believing and started to seek therapists to help, the fact is you are too knowledgeable about Autism and Biology to effectively believe in this circumstance. It is your pride that prevents his healing."
To understand the context, then, I will explain that my son's diagnosis came at the end of my marriage, for practical purposes--a relationship that has only improved under the tincture of time, frankly, since separation.
I, being familiar with twi lingo asked, "Why are you speaking to me alone about this? I assume you have no problem with then-hubby's believing. Isn't he the head of the family? Doesn't his believing cover?"
The reply was: "You've done something, somewhere...somehow you've undermined him and made his spiritual effect powerless."
These were things spoken to me, in my home.
However, at meetings, especially Limb Functions I was bombarded with phrases like by the. very. same. people.:
"Won't it be great when you wake up and your little boy is healed? We're all believing with you!"
"Deliverance takes time, but I just know that if we all pray for healing now, by the time he's 5 he'll be in regular kindergarten!"
"Don't really think about what his doctor's say; we have THE WORD and we can overcome them!"
By the time he was 2 and I'd forgotten what regular sleep was, I think if one more syrupy-smiled, doe-eyed do-gooder had come up to me and said, "Don't worry, QT! I've prayed about this and God showed me that your son will be healed!" ... I would have punched his/her/its teeth out.
Make no mistake, at first especially, driven by maternal instinct I'm sure, I wanted my son to be instantly "delivered from this affliction."
It has taken me years of study and observation to come to the conclusion that while his different wiring and neurological functions make it difficult for the general society to understand him, that he is a complete, functioning, whole little person. He is not afflicted. He is not possessed (I never believed that crap). He is himself. No more or less anything other than. himself.
Because he is not verbal in the sense that most of us understand, and because he is not interested in the same things most kids his age are, he certainly is different. The deficits and behaviors that he exhibits which place him toward the lower end of the Autism Spectrum mean nothing more than data points that taken together form a diagnosis.
However, to be lambasted for my specific knowledge was cruel and wrong. To lessen my son's humanity, to make of him a non-person (because, yes, my LC called him "A little beast, he's an animal, all instincts and no brains, no reasoning") was also wrong. TWI, like many groups wanted uniformity and conformity.
Many of the well-meaning, sincere people, with gentle and kind hearts motivated only by love were very happy to pray and "believe with me." None of them babysat for me once...not ever...unless I paid a teenager to do it. Of course, in paying them, I was "believing" to get a shower so I could wash my hair without worrying whether or not my son had managed to dismantle the door locks again. (He was an animal and apparently it must have been animal cunning that allowed him to work out how to do THAT, it certainly couldn't have been reasoning capability! )
I was asked, at first, to give progress reports...so that leadership could update the household on our believing progress. That stopped fairly quickly. I suppose my son wasn't a bright enough star to accomplish that, though.
Please understand, many many people really wanted to see us "delivered" from what they saw as a terrible tragedy. The did care. I'm not belittling that.
But...I saw those gleeful glances. Oh, yes. Oh, yes I did. Those expressions were very communicative. They said, "Here's our chance to activate the power of God and make this kid whole...then the WORLD will know! They'll know!"
I also saw the relieved, nervous glances that said, "I'm so relieved that's not my kid. I could never live like that."
Finally, I saw the less kind, more accusatory glances, and heard the words from top to bottom..."Poor kid, what did SHE do to make him turn out that way."
Speaking as the parent of a child with what people call a disability, and pretty severe one, I can say that what bothered me most was that my son became a symbol. His innate humanity, his unique individualism was discarded and he became nothing more than an opportunity for greater believing and potential example of ultimate deliverance.
Would I, a writer and science-geek, love to have long conversations in a language I can understand with my child? Yes. Would I like to know what's bothering him? Of course. Would I like to experience, even just one single time, the feeling of hearing him call me, "mom"? More than any of you who have not faced this situation will ever realize.
When I left twi, and left behind the warped sense of reality it came with, I was almost instantly able to connect with my son in a profound way. He does not speak meaningfully apart from a few words, but his expression shows every human emotion we can all experience. I am aware of his love and his desire to be a part of my life. I can easily see when he wants to be around his sister and when he wishes she would just drop dead. I have seen his exultant joy when he discovers something new, like today when he realized how to dismantle the refrigerator lock so he could eat ALL the pudding in the house while I was, again, in the shower.
When I left twi behind, I left behind the notion that my child is defective, broken, damaged goods. I've discovered that both of my children, without enforced way-robotics, experience the world in a unique way and, frankly, I learn more from them in what people might consider a "broken" state, than I would otherwise.
My family was delivered, all of us, from people who marginalized our existence and insisted that we were in need of changing.
Don't feel sorry for us. We're doing ok, and we'll keep on doing better...because we have each other.
My daughter chooses this song for our family. I think it fits.
Yours parentingly,
~QT
If you read this far...I'm amazed. I am still of mixed emotions about sharing this. I may decide to remove it later.
I too am a mom of an autistic child. He was born in 1997. We left The Way Int'l in 2000 and our son was diagnosed in 2001. (PDD-NOS) I spent months feeling "guilt" that I had done something wrong to cause my son's disability. Maybe it was related to my leaving TWI?!? It didn't take me long to get over that! I became EXTREMELY thankful that my husband and I did not have to deal with any of what you described - because I knew in my heart that what you described would have been what we experienced. As a former fellowship coordinator who lived close to HQ, I know what it was like for parents of "unruly" children. How much worse would have it been for us?
I simply wanted to let you know that you very succinctly described why I am thankful to have gotten out when we did. Our son is pretty high functioning and he is verbal. He has cognitive issues and a lot of sensory issues. He is also one of the most incredible people I will ever meet.
Finally, I saw the less kind, more accusatory glances, and heard the words from top to bottom..."Poor kid, what did SHE do to make him turn out that way."
"Who hath sinned, that he was born blind? The man, or his parents?"
It appears that Pharaseism is alive and well at TWI.
As you mentioned, there were many who prayed for you with a loving heart. I pray as well. And, yes, if your son is miraculously delivered, it will be to God's glory. (Not TWI's.) Until then, your love for him is the greatest good he can have!
people do very hurtful behaviours and never does another recognize what he does, lie, cheat stealing is so very common place in our world.
these are "sins" or serious problems no one can point a finger at and say hey they are this or that and different or even wrong.
some live their whole life without any degree of accountability to God or their fellow man. I dare say many and only a "few" humble before the Lord and at least try to live in a fashion that will LOVE instead of hurt.
so in the judgement who will be called on to explain a person born into a body that is promised to be whole and healed in the kingdom or those who knew different , never "got caught" and now stand before the Lord?
I think those who chose to live in a manner contary to the LORD better check their own life and its worth, before they judge another for how it may appear today.
All knees will bow, and some of these folks have a surprise on what the LORD knows as all truth .
we may not know the facts of why this or that TODAY but the LORD does and the day of grace will be over one day , hmm i better look in my own yard .
((((QT)))) What they did was ignorant and inexcusable. Thank God you are strong, you didn`t buy into that crap, you didn`t throw your wonderfull son away. You have my deepest respect girl....You know that they HAD to blame you right??? Else they would have had to start questioning their hard fast *truths* their universe would have started to unravel...it HAD to be your fault.
My nephew is autistic, though highly functioning. My dear friends son is autistic. To imagine those wonderfull imaginative little souls within the confines of twi is horrible.
What is amazing is how much they are learning about this now, ways of understanding and connecting that can help these guys. It is amazing what can be accomplished when one is educated. Devistating when one lacks the capacity to understand ...ie the kid is posessed or needs deliverance....
QT, I hope that you decide not to remove your post. It speaks eloquently of the ignorance and down right evil that is at the very heart of twi`s understanding and teachings concerning people.
Maggie M, I am glad that you were free to seek the path that would help your child, I doubt that would have been the case had you remained in twi.
How cruel. I was a corpse grad and saw after I "got out" just how hard-hearted I had become. I had no feelings, no heart, and no love. I was taught to be a robot -- when I saw Star Trek movies about the Borg it reminded me of The Way -- the hive mind.
I'm SO SO SORRY you went through what you did. My God -- how rude, how awful, how unloving, we were taught to be. There was no help, no compassion, no love. NONE.
I have debated whether or not to reply to this thread.
While I have posted openly about my son's condition, and the general response to it, there are some things I've not said. Because they fit with the main thrust of this thread, I've decided to comment.
The most hurtful and profoundly ignorant statement made to me, uttered by the BC/LC in the presence of my FC, their respective families and myself was simply this: "Your initial mistake, like Eve, was to question during your pregnancy that something could go wrong. Your second mistake was placing too much trust in the medical establishment. While it is good that you've acted on your believing and started to seek therapists to help, the fact is you are too knowledgeable about Autism and Biology to effectively believe in this circumstance. It is your pride that prevents his healing."
To understand the context, then, I will explain that my son's diagnosis came at the end of my marriage, for practical purposes--a relationship that has only improved under the tincture of time, frankly, since separation.
I, being familiar with twi lingo asked, "Why are you speaking to me alone about this? I assume you have no problem with then-hubby's believing. Isn't he the head of the family? Doesn't his believing cover?"
The reply was: "You've done something, somewhere...somehow you've undermined him and made his spiritual effect powerless."
These were things spoken to me, in my home.
However, at meetings, especially Limb Functions I was bombarded with phrases like by the. very. same. people.:
"Won't it be great when you wake up and your little boy is healed? We're all believing with you!"
"Deliverance takes time, but I just know that if we all pray for healing now, by the time he's 5 he'll be in regular kindergarten!"
"Don't really think about what his doctor's say; we have THE WORD and we can overcome them!"
By the time he was 2 and I'd forgotten what regular sleep was, I think if one more syrupy-smiled, doe-eyed do-gooder had come up to me and said, "Don't worry, QT! I've prayed about this and God showed me that your son will be healed!" ... I would have punched his/her/its teeth out.
Make no mistake, at first especially, driven by maternal instinct I'm sure, I wanted my son to be instantly "delivered from this affliction."
It has taken me years of study and observation to come to the conclusion that while his different wiring and neurological functions make it difficult for the general society to understand him, that he is a complete, functioning, whole little person. He is not afflicted. He is not possessed (I never believed that crap). He is himself. No more or less anything other than. himself.
Because he is not verbal in the sense that most of us understand, and because he is not interested in the same things most kids his age are, he certainly is different. The deficits and behaviors that he exhibits which place him toward the lower end of the Autism Spectrum mean nothing more than data points that taken together form a diagnosis.
However, to be lambasted for my specific knowledge was cruel and wrong. To lessen my son's humanity, to make of him a non-person (because, yes, my LC called him "A little beast, he's an animal, all instincts and no brains, no reasoning") was also wrong. TWI, like many groups wanted uniformity and conformity.
Many of the well-meaning, sincere people, with gentle and kind hearts motivated only by love were very happy to pray and "believe with me." None of them babysat for me once...not ever...unless I paid a teenager to do it. Of course, in paying them, I was "believing" to get a shower so I could wash my hair without worrying whether or not my son had managed to dismantle the door locks again. (<sarcasm>He was an animal and apparently it must have been animal cunning that allowed him to work out how to do THAT, it certainly couldn't have been reasoning capability! </sarcasm>)
I was asked, at first, to give progress reports...so that leadership could update the household on our believing progress. That stopped fairly quickly. I suppose my son wasn't a bright enough star to accomplish that, though.
Please understand, many many people really wanted to see us "delivered" from what they saw as a terrible tragedy. The did care. I'm not belittling that.
But...I saw those gleeful glances. Oh, yes. Oh, yes I did. Those expressions were very communicative. They said, "Here's our chance to activate the power of God and make this kid whole...then the WORLD will know! They'll know!"
I also saw the relieved, nervous glances that said, "I'm so relieved that's not my kid. I could never live like that."
Finally, I saw the less kind, more accusatory glances, and heard the words from top to bottom..."Poor kid, what did SHE do to make him turn out that way."
Speaking as the parent of a child with what people call a disability, and pretty severe one, I can say that what bothered me most was that my son became a symbol. His innate humanity, his unique individualism was discarded and he became nothing more than <gag> an opportunity for greater believing and potential example of ultimate deliverance</gag>.
Would I, a writer and science-geek, love to have long conversations in a language I can understand with my child? Yes. Would I like to know what's bothering him? Of course. Would I like to experience, even just one single time, the feeling of hearing him call me, "mom"? More than any of you who have not faced this situation will ever realize.
When I left twi, and left behind the warped sense of reality it came with, I was almost instantly able to connect with my son in a profound way. He does not speak meaningfully apart from a few words, but his expression shows every human emotion we can all experience. I am aware of his love and his desire to be a part of my life. I can easily see when he wants to be around his sister and when he wishes she would just drop dead. I have seen his exultant joy when he discovers something new, like today when he realized how to dismantle the refrigerator lock so he could eat ALL the pudding in the house while I was, again, in the shower.
When I left twi behind, I left behind the notion that my child is defective, broken, damaged goods. I've discovered that both of my children, without enforced way-robotics, experience the world in a unique way and, frankly, I learn more from them in what people might consider a "broken" state, than I would otherwise.
My family was delivered, all of us, from people who marginalized our existence and insisted that we were in need of changing.
Don't feel sorry for us. We're doing ok, and we'll keep on doing better...because we have each other.
My daughter chooses this song for our family. I think it fits.
If you read this far...I'm amazed. I am still of mixed emotions about sharing this. I may decide to remove it later.
*edited to add The The tune
Dear Quiet Thinker,
Thank You so very much for stating it so perfecting and eloquently how many of us have similarily felt concerning our similar experiences in TWI with our children or loved ones. I too thought reluctantly of responding to this topic.....as my poor arthritic fingers hurt and I am not eloquent; and just very glad that you did.... Specifically, I don't want sympathy either; so I'd rather not bring it up unless there is something I can learn!
My son Joshua (30yrs) has a rare chromosome deletion of the 6th chromosome...p23 to p24.3. He has damage to his fine and gross motor and speech processing with autistic traits and tendencies. Doctors said he would never walk or talk...be a vegetable...He walks and talks somewhat...etc. I have a question concerning healing. Through out his life we have recieved healing in areas of his life, but not total restoration. All throughout the gospels it was always a requirement that someone believed. It is difficult to believe at times for me circumstancially in Josh's case ... with all the unknowns of his condition and the given that I do love him as he is and learn from him as well! I may never get to the point of believing beyond a shadow of a doubt...but isn't that the goal???
QT-My heart goes out to you too. Thank you for sharing. That took guts, something those in twi don't have. They are gutless egocentric uncompasionate nut bars. Glad your'e out. Now you are among those who will love you unconditionally.
I have a VERY VIVID memory of a Corps Night teaching where LCM referred to the Special Olympics athletes as “freaks of nature.” It really chaps my hide to think about that now – and even back then his statement didn’t sit right with me.
my god, if only the non-corps people knew the stuff LCM would say on a weekly/bi-weekly basis... TWI would have been finished.
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Mr Incredible
The biggest thing I remember about handicapped or terminaly ill people (like cancer) is that they always said...
"It is available to heal them if your believing is in the right place..."
In other words if you tried to heal them and and couldnt, then you sucked because you didn't have enough faith. The funny part was, those who professed that seemed to me to have a 'holier than thou' attitude as if they had that type of believing, and you obviously didnt.
I know this because I had a very good friend in high school that had terminal cancer. I went to him with all this TWI dialogue like "it is available to be healed if you believe...I am the man of God that can heal you..." yadda yadda....my God was I stupid....
Needless to say he would not speak to me after that and died shortly after...Why couldnt I have just spent the lst few days/weeks just being his friend??? I still struggle greatly with that....
What I always wondered was ...if they were so well tapped into Gods power, then why the hell didn't they get off their 'holier than thou' arse and do it themselves???
Just a thought.....
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waysider
You are not alone on this one.
It's what I like to call "trophy mentality". I don't know where I got the term but I think it describes the situation in a very concise manner.
In the first twig I was in, we had someone who was missing an arm." Hey! kids! let's all believe for total restoration. Wouldn't that be a great trophy to show how we believed a miracle into being!" Ummm, no. It's just cruel to give this person false hope; not false in the sense that God can't heal, but false in the sense that we could somehow "believe" it into fruition. If God wants to give a person deliverance, that's his business and our believing can't alter the result either way.
Then there was the friend of mine who took his own life. I was the one who found him. "If I had been 'listening to God', I could have raised him from the dead". Wouldn't that be a great big feather in The Ways' cap? TROPHY MENTALITY!
Then there was another friend who suffered a chronic and very severe disability. He went to ROA looking for deliverance but instead passed away in the motel room. Shame on us. "Where was our believing?" We made The Way look bad by our inability to "believe" for deliverance.
Hey, I could go on and on but I don't want to hog the screen. Oh, and let's not forget that if you aspired to becoming a "leader", the physical image you presented to the world should be one that represented perfection so if you "didn't clean up too good", as my Grandpa used to say, your opportunities were somewhat limited.
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Mr Incredible
Wow Waysider -
That is the best description that I have had in a long time for somthing I have felt and could not put words to....
Thanks so much!
Michael B
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T-Bone
I have a VERY VIVID memory of a Corps Night teaching where LCM referred to the Special Olympics athletes as “freaks of nature.” It really chaps my hide to think about that now – and even back then his statement didn’t sit right with me.
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lindyhopper
I the last area I was in there was a very disabled woman who had been in twi for a long time. She was a very sweet woman and I can only imagine what went on inside her in light of the Law of Believing teaching.
My step dad got a cronic disease in the middle of his life and I know he is still believing for deliverance. He has dealt with this teaching as well. Mrs. Weirwille even prayed for him. He asked one of our LC what was up. Why wasn't he being healed? This is a corps grad (my stepdad) and a very positive believing type of guy. The LC told him that in order for deliverances like his and like the other lady I mentioned above to happen, the collective believing of the whole ministry had to kick it up a few notches. It was our fault, I guess.
How exactly do you believe more if you already don't have any doubts concerning God's ability to heal? How does that jive with Matthew 21:22 and the way they taught the "say unto this mountain" teaching a dozen other verses they use for the Law of Believing. Is diabetes more of a job for God than moving a mountain into the sea? It doesn't jive with their Acts teachings either. It was only the second section of Acts that the lame man was healed. Yet somehow we were in the Pomised Land of the Prevailing Word.
None of it makes any sense at all. How sad.
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Wanderer
All of my TWI time was spent with a rather wonderful woman, named Kathy. She had, and still does have a tremendous faith in God, and she is always willing to share it with others...almost to a fault. She somehow met a guy who had an injury which left him a quadropelegic (Sp?) anyway his name was David and we spent quite a bit of time together. One time I'll never forget he looked at me and said, "I like hanging out with you, because when I'm with you I forget that I'm injured...I feel whole." I damn near drove off the road, isn't that what it's all about? Connecting with others, to a point that they forget their pain, if only for a moment?
Another time he looked me in the eye and said "This injury is the best thing that ever happened to me, before I got hurt, I was a real ....". That is just sobering, and has stayed with me for a good 25 years.
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outandabout
Remember "Jerry's Kids"?
LCM used to yell about Jerry Lewis and his telethon.
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pond
it is like parents who live off the fact their children made the fourth grade honor role .
God love isnt conditional like people can be.
He is love.
the fact the bible metions how someone looks remember in class how vpw said he got dressed properly and cleaned up to meet the man of God??? um no I think it is just the guy dressed and had little to do with who he was meeting.
how do they inject what they think and blow it up to worship men?
little ways. like that.
now every one has to clena up and dress in competition with the rest.
the fact the bible talks about a person stature is interesting.. some small some big some this or that... and many not at all perfect.... I think it shows God recognizes we are a people with differnt looks and abilities.. and i to think a real tragic even in my life changed it for the better.
no I wouldnt wish my drama on anyone BUT I would not go back and NOT have it happen if I could now and most would freak out with what happened to me.
God lves us right where we are at in life mentaly physicly and in every way possible.
all these teaching teach how to worship man in his own image.
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Nottawayfer
I wonder what that SOB would say or think if it were one of his kids?
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GeorgeStGeorge
Remember the man at the Beautiful gate of the temple? Jesus must have passed him many times. Peter and John must have passed him many times without being able to heal him. Thankfully, he did eventually get deliverance, but was he the only cripple at the temple? I doubt it. The man Jesus healed at the pool in Bethsaida wasn't the only person needing deliverance. Was he the only one with faith to be healed? Maybe, but again I doubt it. Faith is certainly a necessary condition for deliverance, but it apparently isn't a sufficient condition.
George
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QuietThinker
I have debated whether or not to reply to this thread.
While I have posted openly about my son's condition, and the general response to it, there are some things I've not said. Because they fit with the main thrust of this thread, I've decided to comment.
The most hurtful and profoundly ignorant statement made to me, uttered by the BC/LC in the presence of my FC, their respective families and myself was simply this: "Your initial mistake, like Eve, was to question during your pregnancy that something could go wrong. Your second mistake was placing too much trust in the medical establishment. While it is good that you've acted on your believing and started to seek therapists to help, the fact is you are too knowledgeable about Autism and Biology to effectively believe in this circumstance. It is your pride that prevents his healing."
To understand the context, then, I will explain that my son's diagnosis came at the end of my marriage, for practical purposes--a relationship that has only improved under the tincture of time, frankly, since separation.
I, being familiar with twi lingo asked, "Why are you speaking to me alone about this? I assume you have no problem with then-hubby's believing. Isn't he the head of the family? Doesn't his believing cover?"
The reply was: "You've done something, somewhere...somehow you've undermined him and made his spiritual effect powerless."
These were things spoken to me, in my home.
However, at meetings, especially Limb Functions I was bombarded with phrases like by the. very. same. people.:
"Won't it be great when you wake up and your little boy is healed? We're all believing with you!"
"Deliverance takes time, but I just know that if we all pray for healing now, by the time he's 5 he'll be in regular kindergarten!"
"Don't really think about what his doctor's say; we have THE WORD and we can overcome them!"
By the time he was 2 and I'd forgotten what regular sleep was, I think if one more syrupy-smiled, doe-eyed do-gooder had come up to me and said, "Don't worry, QT! I've prayed about this and God showed me that your son will be healed!" ... I would have punched his/her/its teeth out.
Make no mistake, at first especially, driven by maternal instinct I'm sure, I wanted my son to be instantly "delivered from this affliction."
It has taken me years of study and observation to come to the conclusion that while his different wiring and neurological functions make it difficult for the general society to understand him, that he is a complete, functioning, whole little person. He is not afflicted. He is not possessed (I never believed that crap). He is himself. No more or less anything other than. himself.
Because he is not verbal in the sense that most of us understand, and because he is not interested in the same things most kids his age are, he certainly is different. The deficits and behaviors that he exhibits which place him toward the lower end of the Autism Spectrum mean nothing more than data points that taken together form a diagnosis.
However, to be lambasted for my specific knowledge was cruel and wrong. To lessen my son's humanity, to make of him a non-person (because, yes, my LC called him "A little beast, he's an animal, all instincts and no brains, no reasoning") was also wrong. TWI, like many groups wanted uniformity and conformity.
Many of the well-meaning, sincere people, with gentle and kind hearts motivated only by love were very happy to pray and "believe with me." None of them babysat for me once...not ever...unless I paid a teenager to do it. Of course, in paying them, I was "believing" to get a shower so I could wash my hair without worrying whether or not my son had managed to dismantle the door locks again. (He was an animal and apparently it must have been animal cunning that allowed him to work out how to do THAT, it certainly couldn't have been reasoning capability! )
I was asked, at first, to give progress reports...so that leadership could update the household on our believing progress. That stopped fairly quickly. I suppose my son wasn't a bright enough star to accomplish that, though.
Please understand, many many people really wanted to see us "delivered" from what they saw as a terrible tragedy. The did care. I'm not belittling that.
But...I saw those gleeful glances. Oh, yes. Oh, yes I did. Those expressions were very communicative. They said, "Here's our chance to activate the power of God and make this kid whole...then the WORLD will know! They'll know!"
I also saw the relieved, nervous glances that said, "I'm so relieved that's not my kid. I could never live like that."
Finally, I saw the less kind, more accusatory glances, and heard the words from top to bottom..."Poor kid, what did SHE do to make him turn out that way."
Speaking as the parent of a child with what people call a disability, and pretty severe one, I can say that what bothered me most was that my son became a symbol. His innate humanity, his unique individualism was discarded and he became nothing more than an opportunity for greater believing and potential example of ultimate deliverance .
Would I, a writer and science-geek, love to have long conversations in a language I can understand with my child? Yes. Would I like to know what's bothering him? Of course. Would I like to experience, even just one single time, the feeling of hearing him call me, "mom"? More than any of you who have not faced this situation will ever realize.
When I left twi, and left behind the warped sense of reality it came with, I was almost instantly able to connect with my son in a profound way. He does not speak meaningfully apart from a few words, but his expression shows every human emotion we can all experience. I am aware of his love and his desire to be a part of my life. I can easily see when he wants to be around his sister and when he wishes she would just drop dead. I have seen his exultant joy when he discovers something new, like today when he realized how to dismantle the refrigerator lock so he could eat ALL the pudding in the house while I was, again, in the shower.
When I left twi behind, I left behind the notion that my child is defective, broken, damaged goods. I've discovered that both of my children, without enforced way-robotics, experience the world in a unique way and, frankly, I learn more from them in what people might consider a "broken" state, than I would otherwise.
My family was delivered, all of us, from people who marginalized our existence and insisted that we were in need of changing.
Don't feel sorry for us. We're doing ok, and we'll keep on doing better...because we have each other.
My daughter chooses this song for our family. I think it fits.
Yours parentingly,
~QT
If you read this far...I'm amazed. I am still of mixed emotions about sharing this. I may decide to remove it later.
*edited to add The The tune
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coolchef
qt please don't remove this
it will help others
i admire you greatly and will pray for you and yours
i think you must be a wonderful mom!
hang in there
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MaggieM
Quiet Thinker -
I too am a mom of an autistic child. He was born in 1997. We left The Way Int'l in 2000 and our son was diagnosed in 2001. (PDD-NOS) I spent months feeling "guilt" that I had done something wrong to cause my son's disability. Maybe it was related to my leaving TWI?!? It didn't take me long to get over that! I became EXTREMELY thankful that my husband and I did not have to deal with any of what you described - because I knew in my heart that what you described would have been what we experienced. As a former fellowship coordinator who lived close to HQ, I know what it was like for parents of "unruly" children. How much worse would have it been for us?
I simply wanted to let you know that you very succinctly described why I am thankful to have gotten out when we did. Our son is pretty high functioning and he is verbal. He has cognitive issues and a lot of sensory issues. He is also one of the most incredible people I will ever meet.
My thoughts are with you. Thanks for sharing!
- MaggieM
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GeorgeStGeorge
"Who hath sinned, that he was born blind? The man, or his parents?"
It appears that Pharaseism is alive and well at TWI.
As you mentioned, there were many who prayed for you with a loving heart. I pray as well. And, yes, if your son is miraculously delivered, it will be to God's glory. (Not TWI's.) Until then, your love for him is the greatest good he can have!
George
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Danny
QT Thanks.
One day it will be different for all of us.
Life is.
I think that is why we have hope.
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pond
people do very hurtful behaviours and never does another recognize what he does, lie, cheat stealing is so very common place in our world.
these are "sins" or serious problems no one can point a finger at and say hey they are this or that and different or even wrong.
some live their whole life without any degree of accountability to God or their fellow man. I dare say many and only a "few" humble before the Lord and at least try to live in a fashion that will LOVE instead of hurt.
so in the judgement who will be called on to explain a person born into a body that is promised to be whole and healed in the kingdom or those who knew different , never "got caught" and now stand before the Lord?
I think those who chose to live in a manner contary to the LORD better check their own life and its worth, before they judge another for how it may appear today.
All knees will bow, and some of these folks have a surprise on what the LORD knows as all truth .
we may not know the facts of why this or that TODAY but the LORD does and the day of grace will be over one day , hmm i better look in my own yard .
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rascal
((((QT)))) What they did was ignorant and inexcusable. Thank God you are strong, you didn`t buy into that crap, you didn`t throw your wonderfull son away. You have my deepest respect girl....You know that they HAD to blame you right??? Else they would have had to start questioning their hard fast *truths* their universe would have started to unravel...it HAD to be your fault.
My nephew is autistic, though highly functioning. My dear friends son is autistic. To imagine those wonderfull imaginative little souls within the confines of twi is horrible.
What is amazing is how much they are learning about this now, ways of understanding and connecting that can help these guys. It is amazing what can be accomplished when one is educated. Devistating when one lacks the capacity to understand ...ie the kid is posessed or needs deliverance....
QT, I hope that you decide not to remove your post. It speaks eloquently of the ignorance and down right evil that is at the very heart of twi`s understanding and teachings concerning people.
Maggie M, I am glad that you were free to seek the path that would help your child, I doubt that would have been the case had you remained in twi.
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ImSunny2
QUIET THINKER
How cruel. I was a corpse grad and saw after I "got out" just how hard-hearted I had become. I had no feelings, no heart, and no love. I was taught to be a robot -- when I saw Star Trek movies about the Borg it reminded me of The Way -- the hive mind.
I'm SO SO SORRY you went through what you did. My God -- how rude, how awful, how unloving, we were taught to be. There was no help, no compassion, no love. NONE.
God bless you and your son's hearts.
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RainbowsGirl
Dear Quiet Thinker,
Thank You so very much for stating it so perfecting and eloquently how many of us have similarily felt concerning our similar experiences in TWI with our children or loved ones. I too thought reluctantly of responding to this topic.....as my poor arthritic fingers hurt and I am not eloquent; and just very glad that you did.... Specifically, I don't want sympathy either; so I'd rather not bring it up unless there is something I can learn!
My son Joshua (30yrs) has a rare chromosome deletion of the 6th chromosome...p23 to p24.3. He has damage to his fine and gross motor and speech processing with autistic traits and tendencies. Doctors said he would never walk or talk...be a vegetable...He walks and talks somewhat...etc. I have a question concerning healing. Through out his life we have recieved healing in areas of his life, but not total restoration. All throughout the gospels it was always a requirement that someone believed. It is difficult to believe at times for me circumstancially in Josh's case ... with all the unknowns of his condition and the given that I do love him as he is and learn from him as well! I may never get to the point of believing beyond a shadow of a doubt...but isn't that the goal???
Love to All, RainbowsGirl
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QuietThinker
I just want to say thank you to everyone for your kind words. I will leave the post in hopes it may help someone else.
thanks again,
Everyone.
And Rainbow'sGirl, PM will be heading your way from me.
Yours thankfully,
~QT
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polar bear
QT-My heart goes out to you too. Thank you for sharing. That took guts, something those in twi don't have. They are gutless egocentric uncompasionate nut bars. Glad your'e out. Now you are among those who will love you unconditionally.
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nandon
my god, if only the non-corps people knew the stuff LCM would say on a weekly/bi-weekly basis... TWI would have been finished.
QT, thanks for sharing.
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QuietThinker
Thank *you* for starting this thread...it has turned out well, I think :-)
Cheers, Nandon
~QT
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frank123lol
In der veg everything had to be perfect,why we were all a bunch of brownshirt nazis!!!
Promises of God?Or weakness brings down strength,so get rid of it,Oh that statement was made much later by lcm
but in practice it was always there.
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