No offence intended but just because something was on a Sunday Night Service tape neither validates nor invalidates the information presented. In fact, to initiate the validation process one must first "consider". Since consideration was viewed as a part of the failure process,there wasn't much room for anything other than blind acceptance.
Further, studies such as the one you referenced should never be isolated in such a way as to produce a biased or slanted perception of the results or their impact on the issue being examined.
John,don't be afraid to consider and initiate the validation process of what we were taught in The Way. God will not punish you for simply trying to reach a more accurate understanding of the many things we were taught that may or not be accurate.
Edited to add:
Hey, Roy, we could use one of your "holy hugs" right about now,Bro.
That's right VP made it a law. How gave him the authority to do that. Is there anywhere in the Word that says doubt, worry, fear is a law. I don't think so. VP read to many self help books.
For most of my adult life I have wanted a motorcycle, but never got around to ever purchasing one. Just recently the opportunity arose for me to finally
purchase one - a beautiful Honda Shadow 600 VLX. By all the research I read it was one of the best 'beginner' motorcycles out there ...'easy to ride'....'handles great'... yadda yadda...
Anyway, the first time I rode it for real it scared the snot outta me! I had ridden mini-bikes when I was a teen and never had any problems in steeiring and maneuvering them, but boy oh boy this was a whole different world. I became very aquainted with something better known as 'centrifugal force'. I came up on my first curve and tried to turn...turn....TURN! Anyway (no I didnt crash thank God!) I found out you had to lean into corners not just turn. Kind of a scary first experience. blink.gif
Congradulations on the new bike. I had an old Honda Silverwing for 2 years and 15,000 miles so I went through what you're going through. You are right, you can lean to steer. A better way is to use what's called countersteering. It works best at speeds above 15-20 mph. What you do is gently press the handlebars in the *opposite* direction you want to turn. The pressure will cause the bike to lean into the turn. When you've established the lean angle for the turn, you ease off the pressure. You come out of the turn the same way, apply pressure in the other direction and release it when the bike has come out of the lean.
Once you master countersteering, you'll find that you can turn much quicker and much more precisely than by leaning. It also makes carrying a passenger much easier because you don't have to "recalibrate" your technique for the additional weight the way you would if you were leaning.
I also strongly suggest a motorcycle safety class and the Keith Code riding books.
quote: The performance of classical conditioning experiments in such a manner are considered unacceptable and unethical by scientists today, for reasons we now see as obvious--the damage done afterwards and the lingering affects. I would be very interested to read the case you cite, John, and will happily provide more data to support what I've said here if you are interested.
I can't remember the name of the film or anything; it was 20 plus yrs ago, but I had a similar experience in childhood. When I was 7 I was staying at my sister's for the day and I walked between 2 yards just down the street. Two dogs lunged at me biting my arm. Someone was there to limit the damage (physically) but I was afraid of dogs for awhile. Then when I was 13 I stayed over night at a friend's house and he had a big German Shepherd. We were down stairs and I had to go upstairs to go to the bathroom. I get to the stairs and the dog is laying across the top step going rowrrr rowrr. This was a problem. I got frightened. So they got me to just let the dog smell my hand and after a few times going over there I wasn't afraid of dogs any more. Still not, ain't that right, Bear? He says rowrr rowrr.
quote: Is there anywhere in the Word that says doubt, worry, fear is a law. I don't think so.
Is there anywhere that says gravity is a law? While in TWI I never had a phobia type problem I had to overcome, but there were times I had to do things I was afraid to do at the moment and I did them believing God would cover me and everything went OK.
To be fair, I think that yes if you can convince your self that a) you NEED to do something you're normally afraid to do, and b) God will help you do it, then you can overcome fear by believing. BUT!!! If you're just not ready to take that step, then it would be abusive for someone to try to guilt you into doing it in the name of "spiritual victory" or whatever.
No offence intended but just because something was on a Sunday Night Service tape neither validates nor invalidates the information presented.
There seems to be a recurring theme on GSC that a) VP said something in PFAL, then b) certain leadership tweaked what VP said and morphed it into something hurtful to some people, and then c) someone on GSC declares years later that VP intended to hurt people. Like NWA once said, bacdafucup! Well, SOMEBODY said that.
Yes Johniam there are many places that say that "Gravity is not just a good idea, It's the law" (I actually read that one on a wall at Hooters)
The question is really is fear a law as believing is a law. Well it responds as a law but not in a the same way a one time action locks you 100% into the result Such as the mixing of Baking soda and vinegar, the one time action of mixing locks you into the consequence of the action,
Did Jesus Christ do a away with giving as a law? How about the law of love? If believing is a law then fear would have to be a law because some fear follows the same logic as positive believing does (I never read anyplace though where this mental ascent bullscwagger came in, (The only possible thing could be when I am training for a climb and putting together Equpiment lists for what I will need where up there - sounds Out There.
Well my brain right now is in overload and I haven't even started work yet. Today I need to figure out how to get 400 people across a river 111 feet wide with 2 ropes and not getting any of them wet.. Oh the nearest bridge is 600yards away and we can't use it.
I can't remember the name of the film or anything; it was 20 plus yrs ago, but I had a similar experience in childhood. When I was 7 I was staying at my sister's for the day and I walked between 2 yards just down the street. Two dogs lunged at me biting my arm. Someone was there to limit the damage (physically) but I was afraid of dogs for awhile. Then when I was 13 I stayed over night at a friend's house and he had a big German Shepherd. We were down stairs and I had to go upstairs to go to the bathroom. I get to the stairs and the dog is laying across the top step going rowrrr rowrr. This was a problem. I got frightened. So they got me to just let the dog smell my hand and after a few times going over there I wasn't afraid of dogs any more. Still not, ain't that right, Bear? He says rowrr rowrr.
That's ok, John, I really was curious about the source...these things have an interest for me.
Sorry, of course, to hear about your initial dog experience, though I just have to pipe up and say it wasn't a lab experiment forced on you...and because you were afraid after (which is understandable, yeah!), that is in part why it is unethical to perform such an experiment under lab conditions today. Also glad to hear you were successfully able to overcome your fears.
Not everyone reports the same success. But, that's life, isn't it? We all see it and respond to things differently.
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waysider
Johniam-------
No offence intended but just because something was on a Sunday Night Service tape neither validates nor invalidates the information presented. In fact, to initiate the validation process one must first "consider". Since consideration was viewed as a part of the failure process,there wasn't much room for anything other than blind acceptance.
Further, studies such as the one you referenced should never be isolated in such a way as to produce a biased or slanted perception of the results or their impact on the issue being examined.
John,don't be afraid to consider and initiate the validation process of what we were taught in The Way. God will not punish you for simply trying to reach a more accurate understanding of the many things we were taught that may or not be accurate.
Edited to add:
Hey, Roy, we could use one of your "holy hugs" right about now,Bro.
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polar bear
That's right VP made it a law. How gave him the authority to do that. Is there anywhere in the Word that says doubt, worry, fear is a law. I don't think so. VP read to many self help books.
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Jim
<derail>
Congradulations on the new bike. I had an old Honda Silverwing for 2 years and 15,000 miles so I went through what you're going through. You are right, you can lean to steer. A better way is to use what's called countersteering. It works best at speeds above 15-20 mph. What you do is gently press the handlebars in the *opposite* direction you want to turn. The pressure will cause the bike to lean into the turn. When you've established the lean angle for the turn, you ease off the pressure. You come out of the turn the same way, apply pressure in the other direction and release it when the bike has come out of the lean.
Once you master countersteering, you'll find that you can turn much quicker and much more precisely than by leaning. It also makes carrying a passenger much easier because you don't have to "recalibrate" your technique for the additional weight the way you would if you were leaning.
I also strongly suggest a motorcycle safety class and the Keith Code riding books.
</derail>
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johniam
quote: The performance of classical conditioning experiments in such a manner are considered unacceptable and unethical by scientists today, for reasons we now see as obvious--the damage done afterwards and the lingering affects. I would be very interested to read the case you cite, John, and will happily provide more data to support what I've said here if you are interested.
I can't remember the name of the film or anything; it was 20 plus yrs ago, but I had a similar experience in childhood. When I was 7 I was staying at my sister's for the day and I walked between 2 yards just down the street. Two dogs lunged at me biting my arm. Someone was there to limit the damage (physically) but I was afraid of dogs for awhile. Then when I was 13 I stayed over night at a friend's house and he had a big German Shepherd. We were down stairs and I had to go upstairs to go to the bathroom. I get to the stairs and the dog is laying across the top step going rowrrr rowrr. This was a problem. I got frightened. So they got me to just let the dog smell my hand and after a few times going over there I wasn't afraid of dogs any more. Still not, ain't that right, Bear? He says rowrr rowrr.
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johniam
quote: Is there anywhere in the Word that says doubt, worry, fear is a law. I don't think so.
Is there anywhere that says gravity is a law? While in TWI I never had a phobia type problem I had to overcome, but there were times I had to do things I was afraid to do at the moment and I did them believing God would cover me and everything went OK.
To be fair, I think that yes if you can convince your self that a) you NEED to do something you're normally afraid to do, and b) God will help you do it, then you can overcome fear by believing. BUT!!! If you're just not ready to take that step, then it would be abusive for someone to try to guilt you into doing it in the name of "spiritual victory" or whatever.
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johniam
quote: Johniam-------
No offence intended but just because something was on a Sunday Night Service tape neither validates nor invalidates the information presented.
There seems to be a recurring theme on GSC that a) VP said something in PFAL, then b) certain leadership tweaked what VP said and morphed it into something hurtful to some people, and then c) someone on GSC declares years later that VP intended to hurt people. Like NWA once said, bacdafucup! Well, SOMEBODY said that.
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Out There
Yes Johniam there are many places that say that "Gravity is not just a good idea, It's the law" (I actually read that one on a wall at Hooters)
The question is really is fear a law as believing is a law. Well it responds as a law but not in a the same way a one time action locks you 100% into the result Such as the mixing of Baking soda and vinegar, the one time action of mixing locks you into the consequence of the action,
Did Jesus Christ do a away with giving as a law? How about the law of love? If believing is a law then fear would have to be a law because some fear follows the same logic as positive believing does (I never read anyplace though where this mental ascent bullscwagger came in, (The only possible thing could be when I am training for a climb and putting together Equpiment lists for what I will need where up there - sounds Out There.
Well my brain right now is in overload and I haven't even started work yet. Today I need to figure out how to get 400 people across a river 111 feet wide with 2 ropes and not getting any of them wet.. Oh the nearest bridge is 600yards away and we can't use it.
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QuietThinker
That's ok, John, I really was curious about the source...these things have an interest for me.
Sorry, of course, to hear about your initial dog experience, though I just have to pipe up and say it wasn't a lab experiment forced on you...and because you were afraid after (which is understandable, yeah!), that is in part why it is unethical to perform such an experiment under lab conditions today. Also glad to hear you were successfully able to overcome your fears.
Not everyone reports the same success. But, that's life, isn't it? We all see it and respond to things differently.
Yours researchingly,
QT
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waysider
Dear John
HE HE! I always secretly wanted an opportunity to start a letter that way.
Anyway, I never said that I thought VPW said those things to intentionally hurt peaple.
Fact is, though, many people WERE hurt by this misrepresentation of what fear really is.
I do believe, howver, that he had his own personal gain at heart when he made these pronouncements.
That's just my opinion and I respect the fact that yours may not be the same as mine.
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