I find it odd, on an ex-cult board, that anyone would think the RC church off limits. What was all that bad press about again? Forgive and forget? Won't happen again, right?
Some of you people can't see beyond the nose on your faces. Exactly WHAT do you think (if you do think) is the outcome of a prohibition (utterly un-biblical) of birth-control in say, Africa - besides the wild-fire proliferation of AIDS, and for those little, fly-specked black kids who out-live their AIDS-infected parents (all expendable, amen), endemic poverty, abuse, enslavement, disease, famine, and infant/childhood mortality -- I spelled out the partial list only for those of you who can't think a single thought past your last, involuntary twitch.
The depraved indifference of the church to the profound, global-scale of suffering this single policy (among many other bad policies) causes, evokes a staggering vision of human evil to anyone who opens his/her EYES. And the fact that educated American Catholics blithley buy the church line that banning contraception somehow sanctifies the value of life, without question (though many use birth-control personally), may accurately predict they would also sit passively by, and obediently look away while priests rape their children.
Other than that, nice folks. Brainwashed by devils, but nice folks mostly.
socks is probably right. Pay close attention people, not so much to what is said, but what was left unsaid.
And if someone wants to jump into everyone's thread even remotely discussing this faith and do the dance we all know so well then start your own thread. That is the point dear.
I find it odd, on an ex-cult board, that anyone would think the RC church off limits. What was all that bad press about again? Forgive and forget? Won't happen again, right?
Some of you people can't see beyond the nose on your faces. Exactly WHAT do you think (if you do think) is the outcome of a prohibition (utterly un-biblical) of birth-control in say, Africa - besides the wild-fire proliferation of AIDS, and for those little, fly-specked black kids who out-live their AIDS-infected parents (all expendable, amen), endemic poverty, abuse, enslavement, disease, famine, and infant/childhood mortality -- I spelled out the partial list only for those of you who can't think a single thought past your last, involuntary twitch.
The depraved indifference of the church to the profound, global-scale of suffering this single policy (among many other bad policies) causes, evokes a staggering vision of human evil to anyone who opens his/her EYES. And the fact that educated American Catholics blithley buy the church line that banning contraception somehow sanctifies the value of life, without question (though many use birth-control personally), may accurately predict they would also sit passively by, and obediently look away while priests rape their children.
Other than that, nice folks. Brainwashed by devils, but nice folks mostly.
socks is probably right. Pay close attention people, not so much to what is said, but what was left unsaid.
Oh Satori, I don't know about anybody else, but I was absolutely confident that several people would step in and positively go "Jack Chick" on me. And, you know what? That's OK. If I was worried about it, I wouldn't have posted it. In fact, if I was worried about it, I would have kept my religious beliefs to myself and never made them public on this board.
But you know what? Your opinion of my beliefs are totally irrelevant. Excathedra's opinion of my religious beliefs are totally irrelevant. White Dove's opinions of my religious beliefs are totally irrelevant.
If you were a real person they would still be irrelevant, but they are all the more so irrelevant since you are nothing more than a bunch of HTML code pushed from a server to my client. And I am nothing more than a bunch of HTML pushed in your direction.
But go ahead and say what you're going to say. You might hurt the feelings of some closet Catholics (who you all have intimidated into keeping their beliefs private), but you certainly are not capable of hurting me by what you say...no matter what it is. Although it violates board rules, if you want to make it personal even, feel free. I've got pretty thick skin. (I won't report you to the mods...can't speak for anybody else)
The RC church is one of the most powerful organizations in the world. Putting your name on a list like that - that's the last thing I'd recommend anyone of sound mind to do. From a personal risk management standpoint, it's like putting a bullseye on your back. I recommend anyone even considering doing something like this - don't, regardless of where you stand with the church. If you've left, you've left, to whatever degree or purpose. I say, leave it at that. Nothing's gained by doing this, that I can see.
And I'm sure they have every confession I've ever made transcribed and stored, fully indexed, of course, in their master computer below the Vatican.
This is getting funny.
I may have to start breaking out some of my old classic Jack Chick cartoons next!
Let's see...should we bring out the one where the RC's are responsible for Hitler and Communism
or should we bring out the one where the RC's are responsible for Islam
or should we bring out the one where the RC's have the carcasses of aborted fetuses in a secret tunnel that goes between a monastery and a convent.
Which one first????? Hmmmmm...
I love RC conspiracy threads. They are almost as much fun as the black helicopter Bush is the devil conspiracy threads!!! Goodie!!!
Mark - you may not give a rip and that's fine, but your assumption that its okay to be a jerk under the umbrella of being some kind of righteous catholic is not fair to the catholics who actually live what as they do care. All it seems you can do is cut and paste this stuff any how, not too many original thoughts...like do you really think brow beating is the way to lead a man(or woman) to repentence?
WW, it's been years since we spoke but I need to ask you a question. Do you think it fair to continually jump into a thread that even hints of this topic?
And if we think that faith is the devil's playground then we have incredibly short memory spans, we all left a group that could hold its own to this one.
And sadly I know of no religion out there that has no demons in it. None! Because they are all made up of men, and men are just exactly that men (all inclusive) with warts and farts and the works.
Another thing, and I imagine it means little to some here but have we ever considered how we appear when we bite at each other like this in front of those twi readers of which we know Paw started this forum for in the first place. So that they could see the skeletons of that group and also see the healthy minds you can have to leave that group. How does going after each other like this subject always seems to do invoke those wanting to leave twi and coming to us for some answers to actually do that, leave twi.
I am asking you because you just happened to be posting but this is to the board more honestly.
We can't say we don't give a crap about what the readers think and then work so hard to expose twi and expect them to think we have something worth their leaving the ministry for.
Chatkat said: "How does going after each other like this subject always seems to do invoke those wanting to leave twi and coming to us for some answers to actually do that, leave twi. "
and what makes this thread different than so many others, Kathy, that you would make make this hypothesis here? I am baffled
I doubt the Church has a record kept of how many times you've confessed to having an impure thought, as even with today's technology, space is an issue.
And if they did, I suspect there's a priest who's got them stashed under his bed for personal review.
You're taking this to another place, one that is of no interest to me at all.
What I'm talking about - and let's not push this into a flagrant attempt to amp up my statements to include Hitler, Communisum or fetuses, 'kay? -
Are two simple things - privacy, the common sense protection of one's personal information
And evaulating the real worth of doing what you suggest.
In the linked document you gave, it stated
7. It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection.
Which begs the question - if the Church continues to entertain a reality that recognizes the essence of baptism establishing an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection
- why bother? What does it really accomplish? As a personal statement there could be some value - I would weigh in against it if it requires -
The publication of personal information about myself and my family in order to establish the validity of my claim to defect.
There's no conspiritorial aspect to protecting one's own personal data. Deliberately putting it into the hands of strangers, and in your scenario of submission - strangers who the person considers it necessary to sever relations formally with -
Makes no sense to me.
Give people you disagree with, strongly, and who you don't trust - personal information about yourself, who you are, where you are, as well as your family...
I can't be the only person who sees an incredible dichotomy there, a conflict of interests.
Or maybe I am. But I simply don't see how a person who feels this way would do this -
And yes, given the record of the R.C.C. there's no way I'd do it or advise anyone to do it, which is why I'm weighing in. I'd suggest the same for any situation that had similar inherent conflicts, and in general suggest that people use wisdom with anyone when sharing their personal information and data.
Chatkat said: "How does going after each other like this subject always seems to do invoke those wanting to leave twi and coming to us for some answers to actually do that, leave twi. "
and what makes this thread different than so many others, Kathy, that you would make make this hypothesis here? I am baffled
Because we seem to trash God before this subject dies down again, only to be brought back up again, die and rebirth. It's the trashing of God that I object to.
It's not like you and I fighting in 'tacks, it's something far greater than that Hap, and you know as well as I before this circle is over, well probably not know because people will deliberately not do it, but all the other times this thing does it's circle sure enough God, not the RC or the Islam or the Baptist God, the only true God will get trashed.
You have some good food for thought there. And may I add that I read this thread perhaps differently than others here have. I read it as a means for those who obviously hate the RC Church to be able to separate themselves from it officially. Because someone raised in that faith was taught they were part of it, even if they walked away they were part of it, if they hold that thinking, even if they hate the RC Church it would stand to reason, or did so in my little brain, that they would gain some personal healing to officially sever themselves from it. And I am speaking of people that were raised to believe they were always of the Church, not the causal observer of the faith, there is always that possibility then that it could be eating at their gut and they not even know it, what healing could be had to rid themselves of any ties then.
or people will get trashed. I still don't see what makes this difference. I see no consistency to your comment maybe its there somewhere but I don't see it.. CES can be trashed, TWI can be trashed, but the RCC can't? God is only honored when TWI or CES is trashed? oh well. I am trying to swear off posting on these forums, they are no longer healthy for me and people are beginning to bug the crapola out of me. sorry I brought it up, and now I am off topic, so nebbermind.
Hap, why can't we start these things earlier, I want to go to sleep.
Well to start I am not following the CES threads but even if I were those are tied to twi right?
And this isn't an anti-cult board, it is an anti-twi/splinter board. I am sure they have anti-Catholic, anti-Baptist, etc..boards.
So it doesn't have to be tied to just RC, yet I haven't seen any threads where former Baptists or Nazarenes are getting trashed around here. Why is it that unless it is a twi/splinter group all the other religions are left alone?
And I know we are discussing Mormons running for the Presidency in 'tacks but that is not the same as this subject we speak of right now.
I ain't trashing any of them, and this is the first I heard of GSC being an anti splinter board. Now that explains the new banner. "thanks" for the explanation. So I get it. we can trash TWI, splinters, people and politics but all other trashing is verboten . ok, got it. that wll help people to be motivated to leave TWI, and lets not anybody trash God, that might reflect real society. I am confused, deceived and stupid I guess, but well-meaning. This is too far off topic. kathy please start a thread on what we are allowed to say and what topics we are allowed to speak against here.
So how long you gonna stay p!$$ed at me regarding that thread in the basement anyway?
And if after all the time you have been here posting and read you don't get that we trash this faith at the risk of trashing each other then why would I try to convince you Hap.
We use to get along but I guess I stepped on your toes didn't I?
So how long you gonna stay p!$$ed at me regarding that thread in the basement anyway?
And if after all the time you have been here posting and read you don't get that we trash this faith at the risk of trashing each other then why would I try to convince you Hap.
We use to get along but I guess I stepped on your toes didn't I?
Kathy, I get where you are coming from. I too grow tired of seeing every thread Mark starts that has anything to do with his religion getting trashed. BUT, Mark is a big boy and he already knows what is coming, before he ever starts the thread.
AND if you follow your logic through, then anytime we trash someone's political ideology, we trash the person. Everytime we trash the teachings of TWI, we are trashing a person - because there are people here who still hold to his teachings.
There is a difference between arguing the merits of a religion, a doctrine, a political opinion, etc. and personally attacking an individual.
I suspect one of the reasons it seems so much like Mark is being trashed personally is because there are so very few who are Catholic here or who speak up positively regarding Catholocism. I have felt the same way sometimes regarding Oldiesman - that he was being attacked personally, even when he wasn't, because his religious views were being attacked.
Abi, you know I think you are the greatest but I must disagree. This is only about a select few here. And it has been sacred ground since I started posting on this board. Sacred ground that I no longer recognize as such. The days of my trying to make people like me at the risk of giving myself away are gone. I know it's difficult for others to see that in me perhaps, it's difficult for me also, but there is no turning back now Abi.
I was going to let it drop, but you really don't want me to, do you?
You know, as well as I do, that this is a part of the Rite of Baptism.
"Celebrant:
You have asked to have your child baptized. In doing so you are accepting the responsibility of training him (her) in the practice of the faith...Do you clearly understand what you are undertaking?
Parents:
We do."
And then later in the rite you are asked to do the threefold profession of your faith:
95, Next the celebrant asks for the threefold profession of faith from the parents and godparents:
Celebrant:
Do you believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth?
Parents and godparents:
I do.
Celebrant:
Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary, was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?
Parents and godparents:
I do.
Celebrant:
Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?
Parents and godparents:
I do.
96. The celebrant and the congregation give their assent to this profession of faith:
Celebrant:
This is our faith. This is the faith of the Church. We are proud to profess it, in Christ Jesus our Lord.
All:
Amen.
Like I said, excath, I don't want to go there, but...
Now I don't know WashingtonWeather's background and I sure know that there are a lot of people who have never seen a Catholic baptism (outisde of the Godfather) and might not know that.
And, trust me, I know full well the influence of parents on children. No, don't trust me, I'll give you an example:
At the wake of my dear, departed first wife, I saw something I thought I'd never see: the sight of two Way Corps grads praying a rosary before my late wife's body.
Yup, her two sisters (both Corps) were kneeling there and counting beads. Reverently, too, by the way. Conservatively dressed and very pretty. If I could have gotten a picture for it, I could have used it for a full color trifold brochure of the Sodality!
My reaction at the time was outrage (I was still in TWI at the time). But, out of respect for the family, I didn't make a big deal one way or the other of it in person...but it shocked me.
(See, I, as the husband, made the decision that the father, a staunch daily Mass, family rosary every night, kind of guy, could direct whatever he wanted on this matter...as an RC, the arrangements mattered a lot to him. But as a good little TWIer, it meant nothing to me one way or the other)
I am certain that her sisters were probably just respecting their father's wishes, but they sure looked pious when kneeling there saying their Hail Mary's.
Using that example (as well as others I've seen in my life...none quite so dramatic), I can full well understand the kind of pressure your parents must have put on you to have your child baptized as a Catholic. I hope, for your sake, that they didn't force him to go to CCD, take his first communion, and, isn't he getting to be of the age to be confirmed now? If they are forcing that upon him against your will, I really do feel sorry for you as it must be difficult on you.
My intent in posting what I initially did toward you was, in understand what, as I quoted above, is in the rite and knowing your deep feelings of animosity toward the Catholic Church, it must have been very, very difficult not to scream, "H3LL NO I WON'T RAISE MY KID IN THIS DISGUSTING RELIGION." "H3LL NO I DON'T BELIEVE IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH!!!" and, rather, meekly say "I DO" to all the questions.
I'm sort of a smart a$$, so I said it in a smart a$$ fashion, but that's life.
I hope you now understand why I said what I said. If not, oh well...I guess I'm just an a$$hole.
Abi, you know I think you are the greatest but I must disagree. This is only about a select few here. And it has been sacred ground since I started posting on this board. Sacred ground that I no longer recognize as such. The days of my trying to make people like me at the risk of giving myself away are gone. I know it's difficult for others to see that in me perhaps, it's difficult for me also, but there is no turning back now Abi.
I'm sorry Kathy, but I have no idea what you are referring to when you say "sacred ground" or about "a select few".
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satori001
I find it odd, on an ex-cult board, that anyone would think the RC church off limits. What was all that bad press about again? Forgive and forget? Won't happen again, right?
Some of you people can't see beyond the nose on your faces. Exactly WHAT do you think (if you do think) is the outcome of a prohibition (utterly un-biblical) of birth-control in say, Africa - besides the wild-fire proliferation of AIDS, and for those little, fly-specked black kids who out-live their AIDS-infected parents (all expendable, amen), endemic poverty, abuse, enslavement, disease, famine, and infant/childhood mortality -- I spelled out the partial list only for those of you who can't think a single thought past your last, involuntary twitch.
The depraved indifference of the church to the profound, global-scale of suffering this single policy (among many other bad policies) causes, evokes a staggering vision of human evil to anyone who opens his/her EYES. And the fact that educated American Catholics blithley buy the church line that banning contraception somehow sanctifies the value of life, without question (though many use birth-control personally), may accurately predict they would also sit passively by, and obediently look away while priests rape their children.
Other than that, nice folks. Brainwashed by devils, but nice folks mostly.
socks is probably right. Pay close attention people, not so much to what is said, but what was left unsaid.
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ChattyKathy
And if someone wants to jump into everyone's thread even remotely discussing this faith and do the dance we all know so well then start your own thread. That is the point dear.
And I hope I used even words for you!
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satori001
The topic is: how to go about severing one's connection to the RC church. My posts go to motivation for doing so.
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ChattyKathy
And who do you think here doesn't know that stuff already?
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markomalley
As excathedra very politely made a request of me, I will not continue along these lines in public.
Although I will make one statement which might help clear up matters...
... in a traditional Catholic infant baptism, the parents (or Catholic parent in a mixed marriage) must promise to raise the child as a Catholic.
As for your opinion of me, well, you know exactly what you can do with that, now don't you?
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markomalley
Oh Satori, I don't know about anybody else, but I was absolutely confident that several people would step in and positively go "Jack Chick" on me. And, you know what? That's OK. If I was worried about it, I wouldn't have posted it. In fact, if I was worried about it, I would have kept my religious beliefs to myself and never made them public on this board.
But you know what? Your opinion of my beliefs are totally irrelevant. Excathedra's opinion of my religious beliefs are totally irrelevant. White Dove's opinions of my religious beliefs are totally irrelevant.
If you were a real person they would still be irrelevant, but they are all the more so irrelevant since you are nothing more than a bunch of HTML code pushed from a server to my client. And I am nothing more than a bunch of HTML pushed in your direction.
But go ahead and say what you're going to say. You might hurt the feelings of some closet Catholics (who you all have intimidated into keeping their beliefs private), but you certainly are not capable of hurting me by what you say...no matter what it is. Although it violates board rules, if you want to make it personal even, feel free. I've got pretty thick skin. (I won't report you to the mods...can't speak for anybody else)
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markomalley
And I'm sure they have every confession I've ever made transcribed and stored, fully indexed, of course, in their master computer below the Vatican.
This is getting funny.
I may have to start breaking out some of my old classic Jack Chick cartoons next!
Let's see...should we bring out the one where the RC's are responsible for Hitler and Communism
or should we bring out the one where the RC's are responsible for Islam
or should we bring out the one where the RC's have the carcasses of aborted fetuses in a secret tunnel that goes between a monastery and a convent.
Which one first????? Hmmmmm...
I love RC conspiracy threads. They are almost as much fun as the black helicopter Bush is the devil conspiracy threads!!! Goodie!!!
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washingtonweather
Mark - you may not give a rip and that's fine, but your assumption that its okay to be a jerk under the umbrella of being some kind of righteous catholic is not fair to the catholics who actually live what as they do care. All it seems you can do is cut and paste this stuff any how, not too many original thoughts...like do you really think brow beating is the way to lead a man(or woman) to repentence?
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ChattyKathy
WW, it's been years since we spoke but I need to ask you a question. Do you think it fair to continually jump into a thread that even hints of this topic?
And if we think that faith is the devil's playground then we have incredibly short memory spans, we all left a group that could hold its own to this one.
And sadly I know of no religion out there that has no demons in it. None! Because they are all made up of men, and men are just exactly that men (all inclusive) with warts and farts and the works.
Another thing, and I imagine it means little to some here but have we ever considered how we appear when we bite at each other like this in front of those twi readers of which we know Paw started this forum for in the first place. So that they could see the skeletons of that group and also see the healthy minds you can have to leave that group. How does going after each other like this subject always seems to do invoke those wanting to leave twi and coming to us for some answers to actually do that, leave twi.
I am asking you because you just happened to be posting but this is to the board more honestly.
We can't say we don't give a crap about what the readers think and then work so hard to expose twi and expect them to think we have something worth their leaving the ministry for.
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excathedra
mark, stop being such a catholic
yes i changed this :)
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HAPe4me
Chatkat said: "How does going after each other like this subject always seems to do invoke those wanting to leave twi and coming to us for some answers to actually do that, leave twi. "
and what makes this thread different than so many others, Kathy, that you would make make this hypothesis here? I am baffled
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socks
Thanks Mark. Mirrors do interesting things.
Conspiracy - no.
I doubt the Church has a record kept of how many times you've confessed to having an impure thought, as even with today's technology, space is an issue.
And if they did, I suspect there's a priest who's got them stashed under his bed for personal review.
You're taking this to another place, one that is of no interest to me at all.
What I'm talking about - and let's not push this into a flagrant attempt to amp up my statements to include Hitler, Communisum or fetuses, 'kay? -
Are two simple things - privacy, the common sense protection of one's personal information
And evaulating the real worth of doing what you suggest.
In the linked document you gave, it stated
7. It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection.
Which begs the question - if the Church continues to entertain a reality that recognizes the essence of baptism establishing an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act or fact of defection
- why bother? What does it really accomplish? As a personal statement there could be some value - I would weigh in against it if it requires -
The publication of personal information about myself and my family in order to establish the validity of my claim to defect.
There's no conspiritorial aspect to protecting one's own personal data. Deliberately putting it into the hands of strangers, and in your scenario of submission - strangers who the person considers it necessary to sever relations formally with -
Makes no sense to me.
Give people you disagree with, strongly, and who you don't trust - personal information about yourself, who you are, where you are, as well as your family...
I can't be the only person who sees an incredible dichotomy there, a conflict of interests.
Or maybe I am. But I simply don't see how a person who feels this way would do this -
And yes, given the record of the R.C.C. there's no way I'd do it or advise anyone to do it, which is why I'm weighing in. I'd suggest the same for any situation that had similar inherent conflicts, and in general suggest that people use wisdom with anyone when sharing their personal information and data.
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ChattyKathy
Because we seem to trash God before this subject dies down again, only to be brought back up again, die and rebirth. It's the trashing of God that I object to.
It's not like you and I fighting in 'tacks, it's something far greater than that Hap, and you know as well as I before this circle is over, well probably not know because people will deliberately not do it, but all the other times this thing does it's circle sure enough God, not the RC or the Islam or the Baptist God, the only true God will get trashed.
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ChattyKathy
Socks,
You have some good food for thought there. And may I add that I read this thread perhaps differently than others here have. I read it as a means for those who obviously hate the RC Church to be able to separate themselves from it officially. Because someone raised in that faith was taught they were part of it, even if they walked away they were part of it, if they hold that thinking, even if they hate the RC Church it would stand to reason, or did so in my little brain, that they would gain some personal healing to officially sever themselves from it. And I am speaking of people that were raised to believe they were always of the Church, not the causal observer of the faith, there is always that possibility then that it could be eating at their gut and they not even know it, what healing could be had to rid themselves of any ties then.
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HAPe4me
or people will get trashed. I still don't see what makes this difference. I see no consistency to your comment maybe its there somewhere but I don't see it.. CES can be trashed, TWI can be trashed, but the RCC can't? God is only honored when TWI or CES is trashed? oh well. I am trying to swear off posting on these forums, they are no longer healthy for me and people are beginning to bug the crapola out of me. sorry I brought it up, and now I am off topic, so nebbermind.
~HAP
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ChattyKathy
Hap, why can't we start these things earlier, I want to go to sleep.
Well to start I am not following the CES threads but even if I were those are tied to twi right?
And this isn't an anti-cult board, it is an anti-twi/splinter board. I am sure they have anti-Catholic, anti-Baptist, etc..boards.
So it doesn't have to be tied to just RC, yet I haven't seen any threads where former Baptists or Nazarenes are getting trashed around here. Why is it that unless it is a twi/splinter group all the other religions are left alone?
And I know we are discussing Mormons running for the Presidency in 'tacks but that is not the same as this subject we speak of right now.
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ChattyKathy
This has been a real slice of pie but I need to sleep.
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HAPe4me
I ain't trashing any of them, and this is the first I heard of GSC being an anti splinter board. Now that explains the new banner. "thanks" for the explanation. So I get it. we can trash TWI, splinters, people and politics but all other trashing is verboten . ok, got it. that wll help people to be motivated to leave TWI, and lets not anybody trash God, that might reflect real society. I am confused, deceived and stupid I guess, but well-meaning. This is too far off topic. kathy please start a thread on what we are allowed to say and what topics we are allowed to speak against here.
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ChattyKathy
So how long you gonna stay p!$$ed at me regarding that thread in the basement anyway?
And if after all the time you have been here posting and read you don't get that we trash this faith at the risk of trashing each other then why would I try to convince you Hap.
We use to get along but I guess I stepped on your toes didn't I?
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Abigail
Kathy, I get where you are coming from. I too grow tired of seeing every thread Mark starts that has anything to do with his religion getting trashed. BUT, Mark is a big boy and he already knows what is coming, before he ever starts the thread.
AND if you follow your logic through, then anytime we trash someone's political ideology, we trash the person. Everytime we trash the teachings of TWI, we are trashing a person - because there are people here who still hold to his teachings.
There is a difference between arguing the merits of a religion, a doctrine, a political opinion, etc. and personally attacking an individual.
I suspect one of the reasons it seems so much like Mark is being trashed personally is because there are so very few who are Catholic here or who speak up positively regarding Catholocism. I have felt the same way sometimes regarding Oldiesman - that he was being attacked personally, even when he wasn't, because his religious views were being attacked.
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ChattyKathy
Abi, you know I think you are the greatest but I must disagree. This is only about a select few here. And it has been sacred ground since I started posting on this board. Sacred ground that I no longer recognize as such. The days of my trying to make people like me at the risk of giving myself away are gone. I know it's difficult for others to see that in me perhaps, it's difficult for me also, but there is no turning back now Abi.
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markomalley
Excath,
I was going to let it drop, but you really don't want me to, do you?
You know, as well as I do, that this is a part of the Rite of Baptism.
And then later in the rite you are asked to do the threefold profession of your faith:
Like I said, excath, I don't want to go there, but...
Now I don't know WashingtonWeather's background and I sure know that there are a lot of people who have never seen a Catholic baptism (outisde of the Godfather) and might not know that.
And, trust me, I know full well the influence of parents on children. No, don't trust me, I'll give you an example:
At the wake of my dear, departed first wife, I saw something I thought I'd never see: the sight of two Way Corps grads praying a rosary before my late wife's body.
Yup, her two sisters (both Corps) were kneeling there and counting beads. Reverently, too, by the way. Conservatively dressed and very pretty. If I could have gotten a picture for it, I could have used it for a full color trifold brochure of the Sodality!
My reaction at the time was outrage (I was still in TWI at the time). But, out of respect for the family, I didn't make a big deal one way or the other of it in person...but it shocked me.
(See, I, as the husband, made the decision that the father, a staunch daily Mass, family rosary every night, kind of guy, could direct whatever he wanted on this matter...as an RC, the arrangements mattered a lot to him. But as a good little TWIer, it meant nothing to me one way or the other)
I am certain that her sisters were probably just respecting their father's wishes, but they sure looked pious when kneeling there saying their Hail Mary's.
Using that example (as well as others I've seen in my life...none quite so dramatic), I can full well understand the kind of pressure your parents must have put on you to have your child baptized as a Catholic. I hope, for your sake, that they didn't force him to go to CCD, take his first communion, and, isn't he getting to be of the age to be confirmed now? If they are forcing that upon him against your will, I really do feel sorry for you as it must be difficult on you.
My intent in posting what I initially did toward you was, in understand what, as I quoted above, is in the rite and knowing your deep feelings of animosity toward the Catholic Church, it must have been very, very difficult not to scream, "H3LL NO I WON'T RAISE MY KID IN THIS DISGUSTING RELIGION." "H3LL NO I DON'T BELIEVE IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH!!!" and, rather, meekly say "I DO" to all the questions.
I'm sort of a smart a$$, so I said it in a smart a$$ fashion, but that's life.
I hope you now understand why I said what I said. If not, oh well...I guess I'm just an a$$hole.
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Abigail
I'm sorry Kathy, but I have no idea what you are referring to when you say "sacred ground" or about "a select few".
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