Details of the lawsuits...

[Calflor]

I was wondering... can some of the followers/members/donors of CES/STFI get together and countersue M & KAG asking that they not be allowed to use CES/STFI money to fund their legal bills?

Are they using CES/STFI money to pay their legal bills? How can they do this if Mark was fired as president? Usually this can only be done if he were still in financial control of the organization and the board went along with it.

Edited February 27, 2007 by Calflor

[pond]

they can sue for legal fee's., the fact many "settle" out of court for a sum is because the legal fee's can mount to a point no one wants to take the chance of losing the suit and paying the legal fee's of both sides of the fight.

lawyers sometimes push for settlement because they want the money the have earned and realize if it goes much farther it isnt worth their time or effort to fight,Knowing no one will have the money,or the risk to great they will lose and not get paid, and will tell a client they will pull out and need payment imediately.

this is WHY few law suits actualy have a ruling from the law on the books!

this is why it is a corrupt system.

you do not need money to sue anyone, if an attorny believes he can win the case he will take it and demand a percentage of the money they will get from the suit as payment for his work.

[Billy D]

And money.

Other people's money.

Other people's hard-earned money.

Which maybe could have been better spent. By the people who sent it in.

I would imagine if people knew their "abundant sharing" (or whatever STFI calls it) was going toward payment of lawyers and lawsuits, there would have been second, third and even fourth thoughts about sending it in.

Perhaps, in the future, STFI could amend their business bylaws to establish dedicated "earmarked" financial accounts for their followers. That way, if you want your ABS (for lack of a better term) to go only for outreach, and not salaries, perks or lawsuits, you could earmark your funds into that account.

(I'm not even sure if that's possible; just throwing out some ideas so their followers can choose where in STFI their money is actually going).

I'd like to qualify something here. There is no money going directly from CES/STF coffers to pay for the filing/defense of these lawsuits, as they have been made to the individuals and not the ministry itself. Now, I suppose you could make an argument that there is money being used indirectly, since staff salaries are paid from contributions. However, neither John Lynn nor Dan Gallager are on paid staff. Jeff Blackburn is on paid staff, but I know first hand that he's not using "ministry" money to pay for his defense. So, to any CES/STF contributors/partners reading this thread: though this situation has given you ample reason to question your decision to sew financially into CES/STF, the money you send in is not being used fight lawsuits. As many have said before me: if you're unsure or have any questions, call the home office (317-255-6189) and speak up!

In regard to the earmarking issue - this has been looked at in the past and has been instituted in some aspects. I'm sure after the dust settles there will be MUCH more in place at CES/STF in terms of accountability, financially and otherwise. At least, I hope so!

Thanks!

BillyD

[Holy Smoke]

*shakes my head sadly and leaves the thread*

Hey, there, please don't be sad. I wasn't saying that I revel in seeing this kind of dirt in the paper. Far from it. I was just saying that it's a fact that the more sensational it is, the more the media picks it up. Especially if its in open record.

I see stories about clergy abuse -- either sexual or financial -- in the paper on a regular basis. Watchdog journalists love to expose controversy. So.... that's why I was wondering if and when this has hit the news desk. Maybe if it did, people would be more likely to settle before further public embarrassment.

[FullCircle]

Hey Holy

I was shaking my head at the ex CES people suing Jeff. I was shaking my head at those who insisted they still had the truth from a cult called TWI and now have sunk low to sue another after so much damage has reportedly been done by this group of ex-leaders via visions of snake and spiders thereby alluding someone is evil or under the influence of evil. When does this abusive behavior, self delusional behavior of religious leaders stop? What will they do if those hurt by them decide to sue? Personally I think this action and all the actions that lead up to this suit makes religion look like a three ring circus consisting of greasepainted clowns.

OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH we're 'greasespots' but they are 'greasepainted!" I'd rather be a greasespot any day.

[Holy Smoke]

When does this abusive behavior, self delusional behavior of religious leaders stop?

When Christ comes back. Maranatha.

[rich]

Are they still going to court this month?

[Captain Crunch]

Are they still going to court this month?

I heard that although there was a negotiation meeting proposed by the CES Board Members, John Lynn and Jeff Blackburn, the Graeser's and Resner's declined to meet so the lawsuits will be proceeding. I do not know what the court dates are yet.

CC

Edited April 6, 2007 by Captain Crunch

[Rejoice]

I heard that although there was a negotiation meeting proposed by the CES Board Members, John Lynn and Jeff Blackburn, the Graeser's and Resner's declined to meet so the lawsuits will be proceeding. I do not know what the court dates are yet.

CC

It seems that MG believes he has a right to file a lawsuit for defamation of character. If that is valid, then it seems that Elizabeth Lynn has every right to file a lawsuit against him for the same reason.

He and his wife were the main characters that caused her divorce from JAL and banishment from CES/SFTI in the minds of their organization!

[Tzaia]

Here are the court cases. It costs $25 to pull them down.

http://tinyurl.com/2a8loc

[Tzaia]

It appears the lawsuit against Dan Gallagher has been withdrawn.

[TrustAndObey]

It appears the lawsuit against Dan Gallagher has been withdrawn.

But the lawsuit against Blackburn shows it is still 'Pending'? Right? :unsure:

I wonder if they just didn't have enough evidence to keep pursuing the one against Gallagher. If he's still pursuing Jeff, I kind of doubt he had a change of heart.. Very sad...

"But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law against another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?"

[pond]

I can understand how Dan and Mark can clash, they are very much alike both strong leader type men who want to help people.

My impression from the writing on grease spot is Karen Ann has made people upset... and is another person in this mix, John Lynn loves them all, I believe Mark and Karen thought life was going to be pretty much all set when they sold the window business and joined the ranks long before DA, come on that had to hurt when trouble began.

I get it i pray for them to resolve their differences.

the thing is after the PP stuff on the net and the manner in which he was removed even if Mark can finish his education where would he apply? and esp if Karen is as serious as the reports here say about her being a chief prophet and all. i mean it isnt like you walk into a job in a church and say hey I am a minister of sorts with a weird background ok? that is difficult enough then a wife that claims to have weirdo visions about evil from God and yeah by the way i was in a cult and fired from its off shoot..

geez i would have to do something as well. Mark is used to being the BOSS or very close to it. where are they going? and John Lynn must realize this when he threatend Mark about taking people with him when he goes.

how ugly guys god loves all of us more than this stuff please seek peace with one another .

[Tzaia]

I can understand how Dan and Mark can clash, they are very much alike both strong leader type men who want to help people.

They never really clashed. Mark generally deferred to Dan. It was Dan's idea to groom JB for the head of the business side of the home office, which I greatly disagreed with because of JB's lack of soft skills. He really doesn't work well with women. He does best in a command and control environment.

My impression from the writing on grease spot is Karen Ann has made people upset... and is another person in this mix, John Lynn loves them all, I believe Mark and Karen thought life was going to be pretty much all set when they sold the window business and joined the ranks long before DA, come on that had to hurt when trouble began.

That's not my take. I believe KAG has been made a major villain this when every last one of them, including EL has some fault in this. First of all, JAL's parents did NOT want him to marry her because of her track record with men and her relationship with the G's as they held the G's personally responsible for John's stepping down. The marriage got off to a really bad start because of that. My understanding is that EL has been able to make peace with at least part of the family, but it took her aligning herself against the G's and against JAL for that to happen. She may have become disillusioned against the G's as I did when MG failed to stand with me when it came to JB's verbal abuse towards me. I don't know. I do know that her time in the front office did not last long. No one went into great detail about what was causing the rift between EL and JAL. He said the problems started about 4 months into the marriage.

Honestly I like MG, but I lost respect for him for allowing that abuse to take place. JB did not like EL working in the home office and he did just about everything he possibly could to make her dislike the job, including declaring she was possessed. EL was told from the very beginning that JAL's 'gift' was teaching and that involved a lot of travel. You could tell that she was smiling through clenched teeth about the prospect of him traveling. He also spends enormous amounts of time on the phone and I think she had a problem with that, too. My understanding is that she got pretty doggoned mad and JAL, being the master of confrontation left her feeling unheard and frustrated.

KAG is a bit wacky and she was more involved in the day-to-day of the home office than the rest of the wives. She probably got the perception that it was OK to be involved since she was given office space. It's kind of amazing how being given an office, desk, phone, and computer will make you think you ought to be doing something. It's not like she had any computer skills, or could package items, or do mailings. Her "job" was to offer opinions, which is what she did. It wasn't until 2004 that it was deemed permissible to allow someone else to use that space and that someone was me, when I moved the server upstairs, and then DG.

She was included in many of the decisions because of her being a "prophetess" and that was welcomed input. The only person there that resented her "intrusion" was JB.

I get it i pray for them to resolve their differences.

It sounds like at least Dan and Mark have come to some sort of an agreement. MG's beef with DG was his unwillingness/inability to deal with JB. JB's antics had hit really close to home.

the thing is after the PP stuff on the net and the manner in which he was removed even if Mark can finish his education where would he apply? and esp if Karen is as serious as the reports here say about her being a chief prophet and all. i mean it isnt like you walk into a job in a church and say hey I am a minister of sorts with a weird background ok? that is difficult enough then a wife that claims to have weirdo visions about evil from God and yeah by the way i was in a cult and fired from its off shoot..

He indicated to me that he was going to become far more involved in KAG's work. She's a talented painter who could use a manager. He is an artist as well. I think he should finish his degree at Earlham - Quakers are pretty lenient theologically. He is a pastor and it would be a shame for him to not be a pastor.

how ugly guys god loves all of us more than this stuff please seek peace with one another .

He sure does, which is the reason why I walked away with no regrets about my behavior, and no intention of further involvement. We had 'partnered' with CES since the beginning, but truthfully the drama gets to be a bit much. I experienced tremendous relief once I was no longer around them. In fact, I had NO idea that any of this was going on until MG called me the day before the annual meeting last year asking for my assistance in the form of a letter on his behalf - as if that would make a difference. I was pretty blunt in telling him it was more than what he was ever willing to do for me, but I did it, even though that was the first time he made any effort to talk to me since I was "let go."

I can say that doctrine doesn't matter to me nearly as much as the 'loving one another' aspect of fellowship. I see a HUGE disconnect between what is taught at CES and what is lived. I say let them implode on one another.

[Tzaia]

But the lawsuit against Blackburn shows it is still 'Pending'? Right? :unsure:

I wonder if they just didn't have enough evidence to keep pursuing the one against Gallagher. If he's still pursuing Jeff, I kind of doubt he had a change of heart.. Very sad...

"But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law against another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?"

I don't know the particulars. I never read the complaint. I would imagine that JB put the information into CC's hands and that's where he got nailed. There was really no other way for her to get that information, unless it was MJ. What you people are probably not aware of is that both JB and MJ went to work for the company that managed the office computers. Those guys had full access to the systems after they left. They would have had full access to the email system, to the servers, and to all of the backups.

When MG told me he kept the IT company - knowing full well that JB and MJ was working for it- that's when I knew he was a fool and had no idea what he was up against.

Edited January 29, 2008 by pawtucket

[Ham]

Anybody know if the lawsuits still going? Or did it just kinda go "fizz"..?

[Whatsgoingon]

Nothing going on at this time because Mark Graeser has no case.

Edited June 21, 2008 by Whatsgoingon

[Tzaia]

One of the lawsuits appears to still be active. The other one is not active. What I can't figure out is why the lawsuits were filed in Hamilton County and not in Marion County.

[Ham]

Sooo.. it's been two months since the last post. Anything new? or are the "wheels of justice" merely grinding finely?

[Ham]

somehow, I think STIFFI *members* don't quite have the deep pockets twi would have..

like *they* say.. if *prophecies* fail, call the lawyers..

Edited October 25, 2008 by Ham

[Ham]

Nothing going on at this time because Mark Graeser has no case.

I don't know if it's so much about whether he doesn't have a case.. maybe it's more a matter of whether any potential reward will actually be "collectable"..

What I wonder.. are these guys still at each other's throats?

What they need.. is a third party unaffected by their particular brand of nuttiness to sit as an arbitrator..

maybe it's too late for that.. who knows..

for a small handful of pecans, I'd consider..

[Tzaia]

I don't know if it's so much about whether he doesn't have a case.. maybe it's more a matter of whether any potential reward will actually be "collectable"..

What I wonder.. are these guys still at each other's throats?

What they need.. is a third party unaffected by their particular brand of nuttiness to sit as an arbitrator..

maybe it's too late for that.. who knows..

for a small handful of pecans, I'd consider..

My understanding from talking to MG was that they were in mediation.

[Tzaia]

Out of curiosity I looked at the local county court records and there is still a lawsuit between the MG-KAG and JAL. The case appears open concerning the G's and JB as well.

[Ham]

What's interesting to me.. this has been going on for TWO YEARS almost.. and the division between the board members obviously predates this for a long time..

so much for the concept of "agree with thine adversary quickly.." jl probably would argue that that's not appropriate.. wrong "administration" or something..

but REALLY.. they are supposedly "salted" "believers", "brethren".. it would seem to me they could ask.. "what would make this right, brother".. 501C rules aside.. I've heard people say there's ALWAYS some way to make it work out on paper, legally.

if ALL it is is money.. what's the big deal? I think this situation is indicative of how fleshly and carnal they have become.

even old testament days, one couldn't put a bond slave out empty handed. That is effectively what the board did, did it not, or am I not understanding this situation correctly?

[Rejoice]

I can't see that CES/STFI has much growth happening in the last two years. What kind of money does MG expect to get from their lawsuit? Reinstatement to his top post will not happen--- :huh: