An interesting guy alright. I won't pretend to offer an opinion on his accuracy or depth of knowledge. I (and at least a couple of other believers) used to watch him live on TV back in the late 70's - early 80's. We'd compare notes and more than once we were amazed at how close his teachings paralleled TWI's. I think everyone was working out of Bulinger's books or something...
He seemed to have the same dark side as VPW - controlling, short-tempered and a deep scorn for government. I believe he got into a big legal flap with both the IRS and the FCC over whether or not his ministry and tv station was a church or not.
I still liked him and was sad to hear he passed away.
Yes, Gene Scott died last year, WTH. His wife, Melissa Scott is pastoring the church in L.A. and continuing in much the same format as he did, teaching.
I first caught him on TV back in the 80's, and kept light contact with his group in L.A. for a couple years, got a few publications and have studied some of his stuff. There's a lot of stuff on the website you can get, listen to, etc. I wrote him back around '86 and it took awhile to get a response. I don't think he ever crossed paths with VPW, though, and I'm not sure the response I did get came from him directly.
Once you start checking on him you'll find some things about his lifestyle that were similar to VPW's. But there are some major differences I think, a little deeper. I'll leave it to you to evaluate how that shakes out. :)
IMO the research part is much broader and deeper than the Way's or VPW's. VPW bascally hit a point and stopped really expanding his biblical knowledge. He did some in later years, but he didn't really have the intense academic background Scott had or the experience working with denominational organizations. VPW was a pastor of a small church. Scott's resume was a lot longer.
He did come to the same conclusions about denominations though. But from what I've read even his critics and those who question his conclusions on some things speak highly of his intelligence, knowledge and academic standards.
He was good TV, too. I remember seeing Burt Reynolds once on the Johnny Carson show back then, and they were talking about what they watched on TV when they had time. They were kicking programs back and forth and Reynolds said "And Gene Scott. Love his show". Carson nodded, oh yeah, quite a guy. And then Reynolds leaned back and put his hand up to his mouth like he was smoking and said something like "That cigar - I like the way he puffs that cigar", and gave a couple puffs. It was funny.
Yeah, he was fun to watch, hooting and hollering. There's some videos of him on Youtube, too, or were a few months ago. The comments to them are funny! You should check them out - just search his name and see if they're still there.
I've encountered the late Dr. Scott and his widow in recent months because I have a bad habit of falling asleep with the TV on, then waking up in the middle of the night with some bizarre program on. After this happened a couple times, I was curious enough to check out their Web site.
Looking around the Web site, I also got the feeling he and VPW were similar in some ways, one of them being self-promotion of their organizations, and making them sound bigger and more significant than maybe someone else would consider them.
He must have been about 30 or 40 years older than his bride, wouldn't you say? Anyone know how long they were married? She looks so solemn all the time (well, I've only seen her 2 or 3 times, but she looked solemn).
I used to watch him for the comedy. The way he berated his followers and demanded money was very way-like. After ordering you to get on the phone and spend money, they would cut to film of the Dr riding bikes or horses with ultra-hot women in the skimpiest of outfits. One could only be impressed with the teaching because how the heck are you going to refute any of it. The massively scribbled on boards with all kinds of greek words , usages, tenses, and whatnot were nothing if not mind staggering. None of it made a bit of sense to me , but one had to stand in awe for the 'accuracy' of the word-again-very way-like. The man was a cartoon, with delusions of grandeur that at least equaled if not surpassed VPW.
Now that he's gone, his wife-a many years younger woman who used to sing between teachings, has taken up the mantle, and is one of the worst teachers I've ever heard. She must be trying to keep up the air of no nonsense, and authority that Scott did, but she can't pull it off. They're smart to mix in old videos of Scott instead of relying just on her to carry it all.
I wouldn't have joined that outfit for a million dollars. A sad sad organization if ever there was one.
M. Scott was in the - what's the polite word for it? - adult movie industry. Gene Scott was married 3 times according to public bio's.
I haven't checked, how she got from "there" to "here". Tutoring with Scott, no doubt, possibly more study, etc. of her own. She can handle the whiteboard the same, 'pears.
I'd never have gotten too involved with his church, because of what highway 29 said. Seeing that kind of stuff - on TV - said he was more impressed with himself than uh, a person needs to be. Some of it was fascinating in the most bizarre way - like, when is this old coot going to come up for air?
But he did do a lot of good work, fascinating stuff. The methodogy, background, I enjoyed that. It's not that anyone else can't do similar work, either. The language studies, history, cultural stuff. More than anything that part, the "gestalt" as he called it, inspired me some to keep at it. Read, think, listen, learn, discuss, enjoy.
Once you start checking on him you'll find some things about his lifestyle that were similar to VPW's. But there are some major differences I think, a little deeper. I'll leave it to you to evaluate how that shakes out.
I believe Dr. Gene Scott's reply on the matter would be precisely the same thing Dr. Victor P. Wierwille said to us many, many years ago. It would go down exactly like this:
These self-righteous preachers will not name me as a source because they condemn me for smoking a cigar. There's nothing in the bible that says, "Don't smoke a cigar." Don't talk to me about the health risks until you tell me that you quit eating sugar and quit going around looking like a whale ...
This ain't a cigar, this is my FREEDOM STICK!
It's to tell all of you - you don't have to quit living to become a Christian and you don't have to become an idiot to be a Christian! Don't park your brain at the church door just to become a Christian!!
(Excerpt taken from one of Dr. Gene Scott's messages; verbatim. What's more remarkable is Dr. Scott happens to be talking on the subject of plagiarism at the same time; this also being pretty much verbatim:)
I had a preacher order some tapes ... they sent a letter. We didn't get the order ... saying you got to send them to me, I'm in a time pattern. It was pretty apparent what he wanted. He needed these tapes because he's got to have them to get his message ready and if the order got misplaced he doesn't know where to go with his next message.
I'm going to start selling tapes to preachers that do exactly what these libraries do to me. They'll give me permission to quote, but plagiarism is a crime. It's a tragedy that so much in the Christian world we have preachers that don't have the ethics of an agnostic, atheistic professor in a University!
I'm going to send them [the preachers] what they [the libraries] send me. OK. You can have it for your private research, but you can't put it on display. And if you put it on display you have to write us a letter and tell us how you're going to use it and how it's going to be displayed ... then we will tell you how to how to give us credit.
Now when preachers start ordering tapes from me ... I mean, I had a person tell me there's a pastor in Dallas that records me every Sunday. Then he studies it all week long and condenses it down for his sermon the following Sunday. That is a crime. That is simply stealing.
WELL IT ALL COMES FROM GOD AND HE OWNS IT! Well then, give me your bank account because my bible says the Earth is the Lord's and everything that's in it! Get off of that!! ...
I don't mind giving credit. "Introduction to the Old Testament" by: Roland Kenneth Harrison. [spoken while Dr. Scott is holding "Introduction to the Old Testament" by: Roland Kenneth Harrison.) I didn't learn that kind of ethic in bible school, I learned it at Stanford. They threw people out for taking credit for intellectual product as though it were they're own.
But these same self-righteous preachers will never name me as a source because I smoke a cigar!
It certainly is remarkable to note how one readily sees the same parallels between Dr. Gene Scott's enemies as with VPW's. Why? Because it's the same old lousy accusations made by self-righteous religious people all the time. They can't even come up with an "original" lousy accusation to make against someone! (Now there's plagiarism for you!)
But his enemies had made the charge, and with some success among the populace; for no kind of accusation is so readily made or so easily believed by knaves as the accusation of knavery. - Benjamin Franklin
I wasn't talking about a cigar, WTH. And the differences I'm talking about were some that (I think) separate Scott from VPW. They're not of the same essence, IMO, although on the surface there are similarities.
His "enemies" - sigh. So that's where this is going? I wondered.
Scott's been around for many, many years. If you've just found him WTH, you're sure to enjoy his work. I have. :) There have been a couple threads on him over the years, the last was at the time of his death I think.
Scott isn't the enemy nor the people who note his obvious failings. The simple truth IMO is that the person can't be separated from their ministry, they both go hand in hand. This was something VPW knew and taught, himself. Scott's wasn't a total wash, by any stretch of the imagination IMO. His work stands for itself. Exposure from a distance by TV, tape or print is a lot different than hooking up with him and his church. By broadcasting the teaching he wanted to do, and his tapes and articles, he made it available to people without that restriction, too.
The original topic was the research quality and how it stacked up to the Way's. IMO Scott's was better than VPW's. I'm not basing that on WHAT he taught, rather what he brought to it and put into it seems to me to be much more extensive and dynmaic. M.O.
And the differences I'm talking about were some that (I think) separate Scott from VPW. They're not of the same essence, IMO,
They differ? How so? Wasn't it you who had just stated earlier:
M. Scott was in the - what's the polite word for it? - adult movie industry.
To most people that would be implying he was a pervert/porn star. (Which doesn't sound far from off the mark of what has been said of VPW, IMO.)
Scott isn't the enemy nor the people who note his obvious failings.
I wasn't attempting to imply that. "Enemies" was probably a poor word choice. "Critic's would have been more accurate. Either way, I think both men are/were pace setters in their field. I don't believe anyone can say with complete certainty VPW's biblical research was of lesser quality than Scott's. The truth of the matter is, I think VPW purposely held back many biblical things he knew - speaking primarily from a biblical scholars viewpoint - and he probably thought that he was doing us "lay people" a big favor by doing so. I came to realize this fact early on in TWI, but I realize now how that may have hurt the minsitry of TWI more than it helped.
I came to realize this when I saw examples of Dr. VPW's early biblical research on display at TWI Historical Museum in Sidney, OH. Unlike Dr. Scott, VPW was not teaching that particular body of biblical knowledge to us or making it publically known, other than perhaps he was merely putting it "out on display" for us to view. For example, VPW often cited biblical passages that were: "Literal translation according to Usage", but did VPW ever go into any real depth with us "lay-people" on exactly what these things meant, or how he arrived at those conclusions?
Does it sound like I am elevating VPW's biblical research above Dr. Gene Scotts? I certainly hope I'm not. I am just stating what I believe to be the truth - that is, VPW purposely held back many of those "biblical scholarly" things merely for the sake of the "spoudazo"ing of the Word of God. As VPW states in TBTMS on p.168, "Spoudazo, "study" is a derivative of speudo which is the root form. Another term for "root word" could be the "least common denominar" - the word in it's simplest form, that which is common to all other words derived from it. There is no word from which spuedo was derived, and therefore it can be considered the least common denominator, the root. Let us first examine all the verses of Scripture where the word speudo is used to see the foundation upon which the related words or derivitives are built.
Luke 2:16:
And they came with haste [speudo], and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.
When the angels informed the shepherds that they should go to Bethlehem, the shepherds didn't let any grass grow under their feet. They went immediately, right away, pronto. Time was involved. That is the essence of the word speudo."
The problem TWI ran into I believe is, a whole lot of that speudo HASTE was made without first laying a sound biblical FOUNDATION. Of course, in the process of speudo we ended up thinking we were laying a sound biblical foundation. But we all know what happens to a foundation that is built soley on haste, right?
WTH, have you read up on Gene Scott yet, in the process, or...?
M. Scott = Melissa Scott AKA --- I'll leave the rest to you to read up on.
That's a fact. I'm not interpreting what it means, I still suggest you look at the facts of his background in a reasonable effort to know the man who's teaching is on TV and online.
Now I know that even saying that might strike you (and others) as if I'm negatively judging him by his faults, by his divorces, by the things he did. For the purposes of this thread and your topic, I'm not. I'm simply saying and as friendly as I can, check it out. The facts are out there. Learn about the man who's teaching you're considering exploring.
I don't see VPW as purposefully holding back anything. I sat with him in literally 100's of hours of his teaching, sharing and discussion of his own history where he talked a great deal about his background. It was what it was. Gene Scott's was what it was. VPW chose how he wanted to teach, Gene Scott chose how he wanted to teach.
When VPW taught he didn't use the same methods, didn't drag out a 100 notes on a whiteboard like Scott. But - that's not what I'm referring to.
I'm referring to the subjects and areas that Scott brought into his teaching to present what I consider (IMO) a more complete and richer presentation of God's Word. He was able to wrap many references around each other and bring together to compare their differences and similarities.
In that way he could show a listener different ways to understand what's in the bible, challenge the listener to think and consider it in different ways, instead of simply saying "this is what it says, this is what it means" and then offering mnemonic methods to remember it, stories to illustrate it, examples, etc.
His techniques never "wowed" me, like gee, this is so much better than VPW. What they did was instill curiousity and interest and offer more information to consider and weigh. It was intellectually challenging, to me. It's more than the technique, it's the content.
But I agree with you - I would state it as - everyone has their place, their contribution, what they can do. And what they can't or won't do. VPW, Scott, whoever. And not everyone is going to end up in a chair in the BRC, or the WOW Auditorium, in L.A. or in a class in somebody's living room. PFAL contained a lot, IMO, but it wasn't all there is, or the only way to offer it.
And I think you hit the nail squarely with this - The problem TWI ran into I believe is, a whole lot of that speudo HASTE was made without first laying a sound biblical FOUNDATION. Of course, in the process of speudo we ended up thinking we were laying a sound biblical foundation. But we all know what happens to a foundation that is built soley on haste, right?
That laying of foundation, mixed with the time each person individually requires to being to realize their relationship with Christ, is essential.
And yo yo yo! I'd like to hear more from Invisible Dan's experience with the Lamsa O.T. translation and Scotts contribution, too!
WTH, have you read up on Gene Scott yet, in the process, or...?
And yo yo yo! I'd like to hear more from Invisible Dan's experience with the Lamsa O.T. translation and Scotts contribution, too!
I used to catch Gene Scott's program on and off - TV or shortwave - even while I was involved with the Way during the 80s.
Was never a member or an active supporter of his group (I ordered a catalogue from them once).
I was impressed at the time with his presentations from his "Atlantis" series covering the theory of a pre-flood canopy that once formed part of the earth's
atmosphere, a vapor or water canopy which ultimately collapsed, leading to the great deluge. He read excerpts from a work by Joseph Dillow entitled "The Waters Above"
(which I hope to pick up some day). I thought that theory made far better sense than the Way's vague "water-surrounding-the-universe" notion which had always
perplexed me.
I "crossed paths" with Gene Scott about 3-4 years ago, when he started supporting the Aramaic Bible Society, for which I had
done a number of editorial projects. And even then our contact was indirect - his typewritten draft for the foreword
on the OT Lamsa edition was dispatched through my publisher to me. Anytime I had a question concerning something in the draft, I either
had to convey it through my publisher, or leave a message on Melissa's phone machine.
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TheInvisibleDan
I had always enjoyed watching him on and off over the years.
He was an extremely fascinating teacher, and a character to boot.
I liked him.
Danny
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Cynic
Didn’t Scott use our resident Marcionite to do some Aramaic translation work for him?
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likeaneagle
He is awesome.....how do I get his old teachings..he passed away
he was truly beyond christianity probaly in his youth, and yes a character
He always elevated my inteligence
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nandon
Yes.
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Jim
An interesting guy alright. I won't pretend to offer an opinion on his accuracy or depth of knowledge. I (and at least a couple of other believers) used to watch him live on TV back in the late 70's - early 80's. We'd compare notes and more than once we were amazed at how close his teachings paralleled TWI's. I think everyone was working out of Bulinger's books or something...
He seemed to have the same dark side as VPW - controlling, short-tempered and a deep scorn for government. I believe he got into a big legal flap with both the IRS and the FCC over whether or not his ministry and tv station was a church or not.
I still liked him and was sad to hear he passed away.
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socks
Yes, Gene Scott died last year, WTH. His wife, Melissa Scott is pastoring the church in L.A. and continuing in much the same format as he did, teaching.
I first caught him on TV back in the 80's, and kept light contact with his group in L.A. for a couple years, got a few publications and have studied some of his stuff. There's a lot of stuff on the website you can get, listen to, etc. I wrote him back around '86 and it took awhile to get a response. I don't think he ever crossed paths with VPW, though, and I'm not sure the response I did get came from him directly.
Once you start checking on him you'll find some things about his lifestyle that were similar to VPW's. But there are some major differences I think, a little deeper. I'll leave it to you to evaluate how that shakes out. :)
IMO the research part is much broader and deeper than the Way's or VPW's. VPW bascally hit a point and stopped really expanding his biblical knowledge. He did some in later years, but he didn't really have the intense academic background Scott had or the experience working with denominational organizations. VPW was a pastor of a small church. Scott's resume was a lot longer.
He did come to the same conclusions about denominations though. But from what I've read even his critics and those who question his conclusions on some things speak highly of his intelligence, knowledge and academic standards.
He was good TV, too. I remember seeing Burt Reynolds once on the Johnny Carson show back then, and they were talking about what they watched on TV when they had time. They were kicking programs back and forth and Reynolds said "And Gene Scott. Love his show". Carson nodded, oh yeah, quite a guy. And then Reynolds leaned back and put his hand up to his mouth like he was smoking and said something like "That cigar - I like the way he puffs that cigar", and gave a couple puffs. It was funny.
Yeah, he was fun to watch, hooting and hollering. There's some videos of him on Youtube, too, or were a few months ago. The comments to them are funny! You should check them out - just search his name and see if they're still there.
.
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Linda Z
I've encountered the late Dr. Scott and his widow in recent months because I have a bad habit of falling asleep with the TV on, then waking up in the middle of the night with some bizarre program on. After this happened a couple times, I was curious enough to check out their Web site.
Looking around the Web site, I also got the feeling he and VPW were similar in some ways, one of them being self-promotion of their organizations, and making them sound bigger and more significant than maybe someone else would consider them.
He must have been about 30 or 40 years older than his bride, wouldn't you say? Anyone know how long they were married? She looks so solemn all the time (well, I've only seen her 2 or 3 times, but she looked solemn).
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hiway29
I used to watch him for the comedy. The way he berated his followers and demanded money was very way-like. After ordering you to get on the phone and spend money, they would cut to film of the Dr riding bikes or horses with ultra-hot women in the skimpiest of outfits. One could only be impressed with the teaching because how the heck are you going to refute any of it. The massively scribbled on boards with all kinds of greek words , usages, tenses, and whatnot were nothing if not mind staggering. None of it made a bit of sense to me , but one had to stand in awe for the 'accuracy' of the word-again-very way-like. The man was a cartoon, with delusions of grandeur that at least equaled if not surpassed VPW.
Now that he's gone, his wife-a many years younger woman who used to sing between teachings, has taken up the mantle, and is one of the worst teachers I've ever heard. She must be trying to keep up the air of no nonsense, and authority that Scott did, but she can't pull it off. They're smart to mix in old videos of Scott instead of relying just on her to carry it all.
I wouldn't have joined that outfit for a million dollars. A sad sad organization if ever there was one.
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socks
M. Scott was in the - what's the polite word for it? - adult movie industry. Gene Scott was married 3 times according to public bio's.
I haven't checked, how she got from "there" to "here". Tutoring with Scott, no doubt, possibly more study, etc. of her own. She can handle the whiteboard the same, 'pears.
I'd never have gotten too involved with his church, because of what highway 29 said. Seeing that kind of stuff - on TV - said he was more impressed with himself than uh, a person needs to be. Some of it was fascinating in the most bizarre way - like, when is this old coot going to come up for air?
But he did do a lot of good work, fascinating stuff. The methodogy, background, I enjoyed that. It's not that anyone else can't do similar work, either. The language studies, history, cultural stuff. More than anything that part, the "gestalt" as he called it, inspired me some to keep at it. Read, think, listen, learn, discuss, enjoy.
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What The Hey
I believe Dr. Gene Scott's reply on the matter would be precisely the same thing Dr. Victor P. Wierwille said to us many, many years ago. It would go down exactly like this:
These self-righteous preachers will not name me as a source because they condemn me for smoking a cigar. There's nothing in the bible that says, "Don't smoke a cigar." Don't talk to me about the health risks until you tell me that you quit eating sugar and quit going around looking like a whale ...
This ain't a cigar, this is my FREEDOM STICK!
It's to tell all of you - you don't have to quit living to become a Christian and you don't have to become an idiot to be a Christian! Don't park your brain at the church door just to become a Christian!!
(Excerpt taken from one of Dr. Gene Scott's messages; verbatim. What's more remarkable is Dr. Scott happens to be talking on the subject of plagiarism at the same time; this also being pretty much verbatim:)
I had a preacher order some tapes ... they sent a letter. We didn't get the order ... saying you got to send them to me, I'm in a time pattern. It was pretty apparent what he wanted. He needed these tapes because he's got to have them to get his message ready and if the order got misplaced he doesn't know where to go with his next message.
I'm going to start selling tapes to preachers that do exactly what these libraries do to me. They'll give me permission to quote, but plagiarism is a crime. It's a tragedy that so much in the Christian world we have preachers that don't have the ethics of an agnostic, atheistic professor in a University!
I'm going to send them [the preachers] what they [the libraries] send me. OK. You can have it for your private research, but you can't put it on display. And if you put it on display you have to write us a letter and tell us how you're going to use it and how it's going to be displayed ... then we will tell you how to how to give us credit.
Now when preachers start ordering tapes from me ... I mean, I had a person tell me there's a pastor in Dallas that records me every Sunday. Then he studies it all week long and condenses it down for his sermon the following Sunday. That is a crime. That is simply stealing.
WELL IT ALL COMES FROM GOD AND HE OWNS IT! Well then, give me your bank account because my bible says the Earth is the Lord's and everything that's in it! Get off of that!! ...
I don't mind giving credit. "Introduction to the Old Testament" by: Roland Kenneth Harrison. [spoken while Dr. Scott is holding "Introduction to the Old Testament" by: Roland Kenneth Harrison.) I didn't learn that kind of ethic in bible school, I learned it at Stanford. They threw people out for taking credit for intellectual product as though it were they're own.
But these same self-righteous preachers will never name me as a source because I smoke a cigar!
It certainly is remarkable to note how one readily sees the same parallels between Dr. Gene Scott's enemies as with VPW's. Why? Because it's the same old lousy accusations made by self-righteous religious people all the time. They can't even come up with an "original" lousy accusation to make against someone! (Now there's plagiarism for you!)
But his enemies had made the charge, and with some success among the populace; for no kind of accusation is so readily made or so easily believed by knaves as the accusation of knavery. - Benjamin Franklin
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socks
I wasn't talking about a cigar, WTH. And the differences I'm talking about were some that (I think) separate Scott from VPW. They're not of the same essence, IMO, although on the surface there are similarities.
His "enemies" - sigh. So that's where this is going? I wondered.
Scott's been around for many, many years. If you've just found him WTH, you're sure to enjoy his work. I have. :) There have been a couple threads on him over the years, the last was at the time of his death I think.
Scott isn't the enemy nor the people who note his obvious failings. The simple truth IMO is that the person can't be separated from their ministry, they both go hand in hand. This was something VPW knew and taught, himself. Scott's wasn't a total wash, by any stretch of the imagination IMO. His work stands for itself. Exposure from a distance by TV, tape or print is a lot different than hooking up with him and his church. By broadcasting the teaching he wanted to do, and his tapes and articles, he made it available to people without that restriction, too.
The original topic was the research quality and how it stacked up to the Way's. IMO Scott's was better than VPW's. I'm not basing that on WHAT he taught, rather what he brought to it and put into it seems to me to be much more extensive and dynmaic. M.O.
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TheInvisibleDan
Not for actual translation work, but for formatting a new foreword contributed by Scott in
a reprint of Lamsa's Old Testament translation.
Scott included in his foreword a quotation (II Tim. 4:7) in hand-written Syriac, which I had to decide whether
to re-type the citation with an Aramaic font, or scan Scott's Aramaic citation in the form of an image file to
insert in Pagemaker.
I went with the font - it looked much clearer and sharper on the page.
Danny
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What The Hey
I wasn't attempting to imply that. "Enemies" was probably a poor word choice. "Critic's would have been more accurate. Either way, I think both men are/were pace setters in their field. I don't believe anyone can say with complete certainty VPW's biblical research was of lesser quality than Scott's. The truth of the matter is, I think VPW purposely held back many biblical things he knew - speaking primarily from a biblical scholars viewpoint - and he probably thought that he was doing us "lay people" a big favor by doing so. I came to realize this fact early on in TWI, but I realize now how that may have hurt the minsitry of TWI more than it helped.
I came to realize this when I saw examples of Dr. VPW's early biblical research on display at TWI Historical Museum in Sidney, OH. Unlike Dr. Scott, VPW was not teaching that particular body of biblical knowledge to us or making it publically known, other than perhaps he was merely putting it "out on display" for us to view. For example, VPW often cited biblical passages that were: "Literal translation according to Usage", but did VPW ever go into any real depth with us "lay-people" on exactly what these things meant, or how he arrived at those conclusions?
Does it sound like I am elevating VPW's biblical research above Dr. Gene Scotts? I certainly hope I'm not. I am just stating what I believe to be the truth - that is, VPW purposely held back many of those "biblical scholarly" things merely for the sake of the "spoudazo"ing of the Word of God. As VPW states in TBTMS on p.168, "Spoudazo, "study" is a derivative of speudo which is the root form. Another term for "root word" could be the "least common denominar" - the word in it's simplest form, that which is common to all other words derived from it. There is no word from which spuedo was derived, and therefore it can be considered the least common denominator, the root. Let us first examine all the verses of Scripture where the word speudo is used to see the foundation upon which the related words or derivitives are built.
Luke 2:16:
And they came with haste [speudo], and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.
When the angels informed the shepherds that they should go to Bethlehem, the shepherds didn't let any grass grow under their feet. They went immediately, right away, pronto. Time was involved. That is the essence of the word speudo."
The problem TWI ran into I believe is, a whole lot of that speudo HASTE was made without first laying a sound biblical FOUNDATION. Of course, in the process of speudo we ended up thinking we were laying a sound biblical foundation. But we all know what happens to a foundation that is built soley on haste, right?
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socks
WTH, have you read up on Gene Scott yet, in the process, or...?
M. Scott = Melissa Scott AKA --- I'll leave the rest to you to read up on.
That's a fact. I'm not interpreting what it means, I still suggest you look at the facts of his background in a reasonable effort to know the man who's teaching is on TV and online.
Now I know that even saying that might strike you (and others) as if I'm negatively judging him by his faults, by his divorces, by the things he did. For the purposes of this thread and your topic, I'm not. I'm simply saying and as friendly as I can, check it out. The facts are out there. Learn about the man who's teaching you're considering exploring.
I don't see VPW as purposefully holding back anything. I sat with him in literally 100's of hours of his teaching, sharing and discussion of his own history where he talked a great deal about his background. It was what it was. Gene Scott's was what it was. VPW chose how he wanted to teach, Gene Scott chose how he wanted to teach.
When VPW taught he didn't use the same methods, didn't drag out a 100 notes on a whiteboard like Scott. But - that's not what I'm referring to.
I'm referring to the subjects and areas that Scott brought into his teaching to present what I consider (IMO) a more complete and richer presentation of God's Word. He was able to wrap many references around each other and bring together to compare their differences and similarities.
In that way he could show a listener different ways to understand what's in the bible, challenge the listener to think and consider it in different ways, instead of simply saying "this is what it says, this is what it means" and then offering mnemonic methods to remember it, stories to illustrate it, examples, etc.
His techniques never "wowed" me, like gee, this is so much better than VPW. What they did was instill curiousity and interest and offer more information to consider and weigh. It was intellectually challenging, to me. It's more than the technique, it's the content.
But I agree with you - I would state it as - everyone has their place, their contribution, what they can do. And what they can't or won't do. VPW, Scott, whoever. And not everyone is going to end up in a chair in the BRC, or the WOW Auditorium, in L.A. or in a class in somebody's living room. PFAL contained a lot, IMO, but it wasn't all there is, or the only way to offer it.
And I think you hit the nail squarely with this - The problem TWI ran into I believe is, a whole lot of that speudo HASTE was made without first laying a sound biblical FOUNDATION. Of course, in the process of speudo we ended up thinking we were laying a sound biblical foundation. But we all know what happens to a foundation that is built soley on haste, right?
That laying of foundation, mixed with the time each person individually requires to being to realize their relationship with Christ, is essential.
And yo yo yo! I'd like to hear more from Invisible Dan's experience with the Lamsa O.T. translation and Scotts contribution, too!
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TheInvisibleDan
I used to catch Gene Scott's program on and off - TV or shortwave - even while I was involved with the Way during the 80s.
Was never a member or an active supporter of his group (I ordered a catalogue from them once).
I was impressed at the time with his presentations from his "Atlantis" series covering the theory of a pre-flood canopy that once formed part of the earth's
atmosphere, a vapor or water canopy which ultimately collapsed, leading to the great deluge. He read excerpts from a work by Joseph Dillow entitled "The Waters Above"
(which I hope to pick up some day). I thought that theory made far better sense than the Way's vague "water-surrounding-the-universe" notion which had always
perplexed me.
I "crossed paths" with Gene Scott about 3-4 years ago, when he started supporting the Aramaic Bible Society, for which I had
done a number of editorial projects. And even then our contact was indirect - his typewritten draft for the foreword
on the OT Lamsa edition was dispatched through my publisher to me. Anytime I had a question concerning something in the draft, I either
had to convey it through my publisher, or leave a message on Melissa's phone machine.
Danny
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