Maybe the legal action has caused the big hush. However they could address the pp errors and others. Glad you asked the question. Hope we get an answer and the thread doesn't run on with 30 pages of non related stuff.
Maybe the legal action has caused the big hush. However they could address the pp errors and others. Glad you asked the question. Hope we get an answer and the thread doesn't run on with 30 pages of non related stuff.
Have they acknowledged pp errors yet? I was under the impression they were still hanging on to it.
Thanks for the instructions. OK, I see the letter has dropped already. I think the letter was gracious and honest, as much as could be said when facing a lawsuit. Frankly, to acknowledge the situation and express grief is all that should be expected under the circumstances. There are some organizations that are so arrogant they will not even do that!
Changes to website are behind schedule due to short staff but I think there may be legal issues to consider as well. There may be some sort of "restraining order" on existing materials until the suit is settled or dismissed.
I think some former staff will be re-hired, if possible. My speculation (I don't know this) is that the Prophetic Council will disband, if it hasn't already.
If you're referring to the letter the board finally mailed to its partners.. The letter to me still sounded like it was hiding much. Kind of couched the "people getting hurt" with the change of presidency almost as if saying people got hurt because of the change of presidency.... They really didn't acknoledge the situation at all.. Because who is president or not is not "THE" situation.. That's a mere facade in my opinion, and they are playing it to a T.
I think some former staff will be re-hired, if possible. My speculation (I don't know this) is that the Prophetic Council will disband, if it hasn't already.
Where shall they go, what shall they do...?
I don't think STFI is gonna let a dozen or so unemployed "prophets" scour the countryside for sustenance, or recognition, for that matter.
The only change I forsee is in name only. Call them "friends of the STFI" or something..
Thanks for the instructions. OK, I see the letter has dropped already. I think the letter was gracious and honest, as much as could be said when facing a lawsuit. Frankly, to acknowledge the situation and express grief is all that should be expected under the circumstances. There are some organizations that are so arrogant they will not even do that!
Well --- yes and no. As one other GSC member here has PM'd me,
the lawsuit should have at least been mentioned in the letter,
to those of us who have *partnered* with them.
But it wasn't. Healing doesn't come from hiding issues.
M & KAG will not get feedback (positive or negative) either,
if this thing is hidden and not spoken of openly.
Who knows?
Meebe if they are spoken to lovingly by other folks who weren't on the BOD ,
they might reciprocate with something other than a lawsuit.
But (currently) -- it seems only the BOD, and us here at GSC know about it,
with the CES/STF folks learning from the posts here.
(Speculation here -- but one can dream -- can't they)?
I'm glad I got the letter, but it could have said a bit more than it did.
Well, guys... all I can tell you is that I have over 20 years of PR Communications experience and companies / orgs don't bring up lawsuits in official documents until they are settled or dismissed. Period.
What if MG and KAG have a change of heart and drop that suit? If they do, then those around the world who have not heard of this are not shaken by it. Lessons learned, changes made, life goes on.
It's like my divorce.... If my husband and I had not told our relatives all our dirt, we'd probably still be together. As it was, we told them, and then our relatives took sides, interfered, etc. Insanity ensued! A certain amount of privacy is for the best in these situations.
I truly understand you were once betrayed and things were hidden, so now you are skeptical. I also believe in honesty, but first to the invested constituents, and carefully, with few and gracious words so as to not disparage another. Then -- to outside spectators. This order of things is slow but wise. If you are a CES Partner, you have been invited to call and talk personally. Do it.
Hey, I just perused another site for a "fallen minister." What if CES posted something like this (which I copied from the site):
"In {date}, we were made aware that **** had become an alcoholic. In {date}, we became aware that (((( is a practicing homosexual. When confronted with the evidence of these sinful practices, (((( admitted to them and agreed to a process of restoration which the ### of us would oversee. However, because (((( has continued to drink and pursue immoral practices, and after having exhausted the first two steps of the Matthew 18:15-17 process, we now have a responsibility to bring this before the church.
We also want to apologize to the body of Christ for our part in promoting and elevating ((((’s stature in the church while having these significant strongholds in his/her life. The signs that these problems existed were abundant, and we had an obvious lack of discernment and failed to see them until this year. We have received a considerable education through this situation, the principles of which we will share in due time with the hope that others will not have to make our same mistakes."
That's pretty gutsy, I'd say! And very humble and honest. -- HS
wow I do not believe that would EVER happen with these stf leaders.
I do not know if I can expalin this but you know in a sense I do feel sorry for them, they can not be honest, the game would be over because the money would dry up and the friends they might think they had would go away.
sad really.
you know If i stink my friends pretty a much know it.
and that is why I call them my friends.
the relationships these people form are not the type I seek in life.
of course then my friends aint sending in any checks either hmmm well that is ok when IM in all my glory being just me and my friend is with me it is payment enough these days.
I don't think STFI is gonna let a dozen or so unemployed "prophets" scour the countryside for sustenance, or recognition, for that matter.
The only change I forsee is in name only. Call them "friends of the STFI" or something..
C'mon Hamm....do you even know who you're talking about? The majority of those recently unemployed as a result of this fiasco are not "prophets," have never claimed to be, and would never "scour the countryside for sustenance" or recognition. They're normal people like you and me who work hard and lead decent lives. I should know - one of them is my wife (who is happily employed elsewhere now).
I personally know two of the people who have gone back to work at the CES/STF home office and they left good, SECULAR jobs to do so. They're aware of (and deeply convicted by) the glaring problems, but instead of running away, they've decided to stay, fight, and be a part of the solution.
And in reference to the questions about the status of the lawsuits, Mark still being listed as president on the website, etc.... Unfortunately, much of this has now become fodder for the legal system, and therefore many people are shutting their mouths lest they be sued, or if they are already being sued they're keeping things tight lipped at the suggestion of a lawyer. Can't say I blame them. Not sure why the website hasn't been updated; however, I do know that the webmaster - Ryan - is a full time college student and has plenty to do. My point: I know that the state of the website is not the result of an effort by CES/STF "leadership" to keep things hush hush.
Holy Smoke: I appreciate what you've spoken on this thread. Instead of throwing blanket accusations and making assumptions, you've used reason and (from what I know) your assessment of the situation is closer than anything else I've seen on here.
Final note: from what I know, the prophetic council was disbanded by the Gs back in the fall when some of the members began to question some of the "prophetic input" being used in the Board disagreement (specifially the stuff being used to justify MG not stepping down). Lots of talk about the prophetic and how it's been taught/used in CES/STF within the community....not sure where it will end up, but at least the dialog has started.
They're normal people like you and me who work hard and lead decent lives. I should know - one of them is my wife (who is happily employed elsewhere now).
I was not referring to the sincere, hard working people. I'm referring to the people who have a connection with the bizarre.
Yeah, thanks Billy D. I knew the lawyers would tell everyone to hunker down. I used to work in child protective situations and it was always a chore to get the lawyers to see that "no comment" is the same as cutting your throat! Therefore, I know that even if STFI leadership WANTED to say something, their hands may be tied now.
I imagine the involved lawyers are reading this board right now, collecting documentation. Hi, Legal Beagles! Yeah, I know you're out there! Go chase an ambulance or somethin'!
Anyway, Billy, I think Ham was originally talking about "where would the prophetic council go" after disbanding. Not the fired employees. But Ham.... your reference to the bizarre... you know the Bible? There's some bizarre stuff in there, dude! :D
you guys can cut them slack because of potential legal ramifications all you want. but i think they should be held to a higher standard.
i also think your religious allegiance has affected your ability to think objectively. what's worse, you think you're thinking "spiritually" and are therefore right. and that, my friends, is why you can't really see the problem. ("we have met the enemy, and he is us!")
you guys can cut them slack because of potential legal ramifications all you want. but i think they should be held to a higher standard.
i also think your religious allegiance has affected your ability to think objectively. what's worse, you think you're thinking "spiritually" and are therefore right. and that, my friends, is why you can't really see the problem. ("we have met the enemy, and he is us!")
Whoa...hold on there sprawled! Assumption alert! And you know what they say about assumptions....
Honestly, who are you to assume that I believe I'm "thinking 'spiritually' and [am] therefore right???" Have I ever said as much on this board, or do you just lump me in that category because VPW or CM or JAL or MG, etc, etc, etc have spouted such nonsense? Sorry, but that's not my bag.
Nope, instead I spoke against a blanket generalization (or so it was written, though Hamm has since defined the true target of his comment) with information that I PERSONALLY KNOW to be true. How many DIRECT and PERSONAL experiences of this specific situation do you have, particularly with the people who just went back to work for CES/STF? Let me know.
In fact, all of my posts here at GSC have been to respond to blanket generalizations/accusations which I know (from personal experience) to be false. Have I made any claim that CES/STF is God's chosen ministry, that it's perfect, that it's "leaders" are infallible Men/Women of God and should therefore be followed like the pied piper??? Nope! If you must know, I definitely feel like the proverbial scales have been lifted from my eyes since this topic opened up, and I'm willing hold to account anyone (including myself) who needs to be. Like many of you, I am praying that God's light will shine on and expose EVERY bit of evil, and I'm waiting to see what will come of all of this.
And finally, my ONLY "religious allegiance" is to God and Jesus Christ. Period. I swear allegiance to no man or ministry.
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rich
Maybe the legal action has caused the big hush. However they could address the pp errors and others. Glad you asked the question. Hope we get an answer and the thread doesn't run on with 30 pages of non related stuff.
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Ham
Sprawled Out, I thought you put them in Cryostasis..
Just a little problem that a couple hundred gallons of liquid nitrogen can't fix..
:)
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JumpinJive
Have they acknowledged pp errors yet? I was under the impression they were still hanging on to it.
-JJ
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Ham
Yep.. they are wearing it like an albatross around their neck..
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sprawled out
what can i say, ham? i'm a dreamer.
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JumpinJive
MG is still listed as prez on the website. They must be keeping it as low-key as possible.
-JJ
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Holy Smoke
I'd tell you what I know if someone will tell me how to get my picture to show under my name.
It's in my profile, but why doesn't it show up here? I know... it's a CONSPIRACY!!!
Thanks - HS
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dmiller
Did you make it your avatar?
click on your name,
go to MY CONTROLS,
on the left side of the page there's a bar with different options.
go to edit avatar settings,
clicking on that choice, will take you to your avatar page.
it will show your current avatar (in your case -- none),
and there are boxes below, to add the url for your pic.
by putting that url in the avatar area, it'll become your avatar.
Which (I think) ------ will end up looking like this! ;)
(edited for spelling, and to tell you I just clicked on your name, found your picture,
and if you follow the procedure I just described, you can make it your avatar.) :)
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dmiller
Holy Smoke -- I see you got it!!
Yer looking good!
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Holy Smoke
Thanks for the instructions. OK, I see the letter has dropped already. I think the letter was gracious and honest, as much as could be said when facing a lawsuit. Frankly, to acknowledge the situation and express grief is all that should be expected under the circumstances. There are some organizations that are so arrogant they will not even do that!
Changes to website are behind schedule due to short staff but I think there may be legal issues to consider as well. There may be some sort of "restraining order" on existing materials until the suit is settled or dismissed.
I think some former staff will be re-hired, if possible. My speculation (I don't know this) is that the Prophetic Council will disband, if it hasn't already.
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TrustAndObey
Smoke,
If you're referring to the letter the board finally mailed to its partners.. The letter to me still sounded like it was hiding much. Kind of couched the "people getting hurt" with the change of presidency almost as if saying people got hurt because of the change of presidency.... They really didn't acknoledge the situation at all.. Because who is president or not is not "THE" situation.. That's a mere facade in my opinion, and they are playing it to a T.
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Ham
Where shall they go, what shall they do...?
I don't think STFI is gonna let a dozen or so unemployed "prophets" scour the countryside for sustenance, or recognition, for that matter.
The only change I forsee is in name only. Call them "friends of the STFI" or something..
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sprawled out
so where's that letter? can somebody post it?
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dmiller
Well --- yes and no. As one other GSC member here has PM'd me,
the lawsuit should have at least been mentioned in the letter,
to those of us who have *partnered* with them.
But it wasn't. Healing doesn't come from hiding issues.
M & KAG will not get feedback (positive or negative) either,
if this thing is hidden and not spoken of openly.
Who knows?
Meebe if they are spoken to lovingly by other folks who weren't on the BOD ,
they might reciprocate with something other than a lawsuit.
But (currently) -- it seems only the BOD, and us here at GSC know about it,
with the CES/STF folks learning from the posts here.
(Speculation here -- but one can dream -- can't they)?
I'm glad I got the letter, but it could have said a bit more than it did.
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Holy Smoke
Well, guys... all I can tell you is that I have over 20 years of PR Communications experience and companies / orgs don't bring up lawsuits in official documents until they are settled or dismissed. Period.
What if MG and KAG have a change of heart and drop that suit? If they do, then those around the world who have not heard of this are not shaken by it. Lessons learned, changes made, life goes on.
It's like my divorce.... If my husband and I had not told our relatives all our dirt, we'd probably still be together. As it was, we told them, and then our relatives took sides, interfered, etc. Insanity ensued! A certain amount of privacy is for the best in these situations.
I truly understand you were once betrayed and things were hidden, so now you are skeptical. I also believe in honesty, but first to the invested constituents, and carefully, with few and gracious words so as to not disparage another. Then -- to outside spectators. This order of things is slow but wise. If you are a CES Partner, you have been invited to call and talk personally. Do it.
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Holy Smoke
Hey, I just perused another site for a "fallen minister." What if CES posted something like this (which I copied from the site):
"In {date}, we were made aware that **** had become an alcoholic. In {date}, we became aware that (((( is a practicing homosexual. When confronted with the evidence of these sinful practices, (((( admitted to them and agreed to a process of restoration which the ### of us would oversee. However, because (((( has continued to drink and pursue immoral practices, and after having exhausted the first two steps of the Matthew 18:15-17 process, we now have a responsibility to bring this before the church.
We also want to apologize to the body of Christ for our part in promoting and elevating ((((’s stature in the church while having these significant strongholds in his/her life. The signs that these problems existed were abundant, and we had an obvious lack of discernment and failed to see them until this year. We have received a considerable education through this situation, the principles of which we will share in due time with the hope that others will not have to make our same mistakes."
That's pretty gutsy, I'd say! And very humble and honest. -- HS
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pond
wow I do not believe that would EVER happen with these stf leaders.
I do not know if I can expalin this but you know in a sense I do feel sorry for them, they can not be honest, the game would be over because the money would dry up and the friends they might think they had would go away.
sad really.
you know If i stink my friends pretty a much know it.
and that is why I call them my friends.
the relationships these people form are not the type I seek in life.
of course then my friends aint sending in any checks either hmmm well that is ok when IM in all my glory being just me and my friend is with me it is payment enough these days.
cheap I guess.
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Billy D
C'mon Hamm....do you even know who you're talking about? The majority of those recently unemployed as a result of this fiasco are not "prophets," have never claimed to be, and would never "scour the countryside for sustenance" or recognition. They're normal people like you and me who work hard and lead decent lives. I should know - one of them is my wife (who is happily employed elsewhere now).
I personally know two of the people who have gone back to work at the CES/STF home office and they left good, SECULAR jobs to do so. They're aware of (and deeply convicted by) the glaring problems, but instead of running away, they've decided to stay, fight, and be a part of the solution.
And in reference to the questions about the status of the lawsuits, Mark still being listed as president on the website, etc.... Unfortunately, much of this has now become fodder for the legal system, and therefore many people are shutting their mouths lest they be sued, or if they are already being sued they're keeping things tight lipped at the suggestion of a lawyer. Can't say I blame them. Not sure why the website hasn't been updated; however, I do know that the webmaster - Ryan - is a full time college student and has plenty to do. My point: I know that the state of the website is not the result of an effort by CES/STF "leadership" to keep things hush hush.
Holy Smoke: I appreciate what you've spoken on this thread. Instead of throwing blanket accusations and making assumptions, you've used reason and (from what I know) your assessment of the situation is closer than anything else I've seen on here.
Final note: from what I know, the prophetic council was disbanded by the Gs back in the fall when some of the members began to question some of the "prophetic input" being used in the Board disagreement (specifially the stuff being used to justify MG not stepping down). Lots of talk about the prophetic and how it's been taught/used in CES/STF within the community....not sure where it will end up, but at least the dialog has started.
Thanks all!
~B
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Ham
I was not referring to the sincere, hard working people. I'm referring to the people who have a connection with the bizarre.
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Ham
And believe me, I know bizarre. Takes one to know one, so to speak. Only difference, I don't BELIEVE all of my nutty ideas..
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Ham
To be fair, it is a partial quote.. but no meaning is lost.
wow, two ministries in one..J.L. an Apostle?
It sounds like the fellow is describing the apostle Paul..
I don't intend this as ridicule, I'm sure he's convinced of what he believes..
but doesn't it seem just a little "funny"?
so.. if I don't accept the message of J.L.'s apostleship, and look at the man behind the curtain, I'm a gonner?
Is this one of their "prophets"? Does it sound rational to you?
Doesn't sound good to me..
If this is a representative sample of the "prophets" they give ear to, I'm not impressed.
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Holy Smoke
Yeah, thanks Billy D. I knew the lawyers would tell everyone to hunker down. I used to work in child protective situations and it was always a chore to get the lawyers to see that "no comment" is the same as cutting your throat! Therefore, I know that even if STFI leadership WANTED to say something, their hands may be tied now.
I imagine the involved lawyers are reading this board right now, collecting documentation. Hi, Legal Beagles! Yeah, I know you're out there! Go chase an ambulance or somethin'!
Anyway, Billy, I think Ham was originally talking about "where would the prophetic council go" after disbanding. Not the fired employees. But Ham.... your reference to the bizarre... you know the Bible? There's some bizarre stuff in there, dude! :D
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sprawled out
you guys can cut them slack because of potential legal ramifications all you want. but i think they should be held to a higher standard.
i also think your religious allegiance has affected your ability to think objectively. what's worse, you think you're thinking "spiritually" and are therefore right. and that, my friends, is why you can't really see the problem. ("we have met the enemy, and he is us!")
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Billy D
Whoa...hold on there sprawled! Assumption alert! And you know what they say about assumptions....
Honestly, who are you to assume that I believe I'm "thinking 'spiritually' and [am] therefore right???" Have I ever said as much on this board, or do you just lump me in that category because VPW or CM or JAL or MG, etc, etc, etc have spouted such nonsense? Sorry, but that's not my bag.
Nope, instead I spoke against a blanket generalization (or so it was written, though Hamm has since defined the true target of his comment) with information that I PERSONALLY KNOW to be true. How many DIRECT and PERSONAL experiences of this specific situation do you have, particularly with the people who just went back to work for CES/STF? Let me know.
In fact, all of my posts here at GSC have been to respond to blanket generalizations/accusations which I know (from personal experience) to be false. Have I made any claim that CES/STF is God's chosen ministry, that it's perfect, that it's "leaders" are infallible Men/Women of God and should therefore be followed like the pied piper??? Nope! If you must know, I definitely feel like the proverbial scales have been lifted from my eyes since this topic opened up, and I'm willing hold to account anyone (including myself) who needs to be. Like many of you, I am praying that God's light will shine on and expose EVERY bit of evil, and I'm waiting to see what will come of all of this.
And finally, my ONLY "religious allegiance" is to God and Jesus Christ. Period. I swear allegiance to no man or ministry.
Thanks for your time!!
~B
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