So, I guess the anger comes from veg*ns trying to force our lifestyle onto omnivores, if I'm reading the responses correctly. I dunno, I'm a little slow, but I don't understand. I was in a cult where I tried to convert everyone I saw. I went door to door witnessing. I went mall witnessing. I went WOW so I could take a whole year trying to make people believe exactly the same way I do. And I never experienced the hatred that I get from being vegan.
Vegan, I think that's precisely why it's so annoying. I remember all too well the arrogance and almost bully-like behavior I exhibited as a TWIt and responded very badly toward those who refused to accept and believe what I believed. Almost like reformed smokers can also be the most offensive and most offended by smokers in their vicinity.
I do believe that a lot of the "converts" to veg*ism years ago were a lot like the religious zealot that I was. Nowadays, through more "humane" behavior on the parts of many of the veg*s there have been great changes and more acceptance of that lifestyle. Look at how many more options there are in stores and how much more widespread "organic" produce is available. Those kinds of changes don't happen when people are butting heads constantly, so there has definitely been a shift in the "how" of communication on the parts of both veg*s and omnivores. I, for one, am glad about that because I do buy organic and I do buy products geared toward veg*s. I eat healthy, but that healthy also includes meat.
I may not have been as clear as I could have in my earlier post. In the past I seemed to only run into the annoying, zealous veg*s, but in the past few years I have yet to run into one. All the veg*s I know today and had occasion to interact with have either not mentioned their diet or not made a big deal about it. And that's the way I think it should be - for all of us - for all topics/habits/lifestyles - and we all do have those personal things that we are extremely passionate about.
I think the perception comes from run-ins with the obnoxious fringe element, which did seem to be extremely pervasive in my sphere of influence for quite some time. I think it's like when we go to a restaurant that's on the verge of becoming our favorite place to eat and we encounter very bad service a couple of times. Those two bad experiences taint the whole perception and feeling about the restaurant despite all the good encounters.
You have been respectful and I hope that you didn't take my steak comment as offensive. I was just trying to bring a little levity to the post. So, in the words Oakspear hates so much, "IF I offended you, I'm truly sorry." :)
I have never run into the bully type vegetarians, though I know several.
I tend to see people who want to preach at me --for whatever reason--as not really interested in me the person at all, but in me as a possible new vessel for what ever it is they are preaching. Distasteful, and those will be people I avoid. A hold over from TWI, I guess.
I have a brother who rarely eats meat, though he will eat at a family dinner like Christmas. His reasons are health and environmental. He is also enviably thin and in great shape in his forties.
My experience with veg's has been mostly friends of my son, and they've all been lovely.
The only bad experience I can remember is on the way to my first ROA in 1974. This girl was some believer's sister and one of the six passengers in a five passenger car. She was going to the rock primarily to sell handmade shirts or some gauzey-hippie-type craft. Anyway, on the way there she made an spectacle of herself at a restaurant by being rude to the waitress and ranting about all of us "eating our brothers and sisters" (breakfast meat...insert your own joke here).
I was so embarrassed I wanted to crawl under the table.
blah humbug. thanks for the "in your face" attempt at pffft humor. Personally, I think such reverse contentiousness is every bit as annoying as any overzealous defender of animal rights. Certainly some will think it funny, not unlike some of those who applaud blowing up carlots of SUVs or cutting fences at feed lots. I don't consider either the least bit humerous.
It's each individuals right to eat as they see fit. I start having problems when people choose to claim some sort of moral high ground regarding personal choices.
If you look at the PETA web site and many vegan information sites such as www.vegsource.com, you have to notice that all their rhetoric is aimed at adolescents and children. They PRESUME to know what's best for all of us and PRESUME to take the responisbility of raising children away from adults with whome they disagree.
The moral indignation and their targeting kids along with their zeal to codify their "moral agenda" into law, their ABSOLUTE disregard for private property rights and their total disregard for indidual values renders them worthy of any rage that might come their way.
Perhaps some vegans don't desrve this baggage, but then most Christians don't deserve the baggage that most liberals assign them, either.
Almost like reformed smokers can also be the most offensive and most offended by smokers in their vicinity.
Ah! I totally understand this one. And I'll be the first one to agree that there are veg*ns that are so obnoxious that I don't want to be around them. But what I find so bewildering is the extreme reaction. Its not so bad as the gay community experiences; no one has been killed because they are veg*n, at least that I know of, but well, here's an example.
People who are pro- life protest with signs that say, "Abortion stops a beating heart." They sing kum-by-yah, and go home at the end of the day.
People who are animal rights activists protests with signs that say, "A hamburger stops a beating heart." Someone drives by and throws garbage at us, usually rotting meat. We sign kum-by-yah, and the police come saying we are disturbing the peace.
So, what I don't understand, why is there no reaction to the pro-life protest, lots of negative reaction to the animal activists? Or maybe every protest has trouble, and I just don't see it.
Ductape, this isn't my thread, but why wouldn't you be able to post?
The only one I know of Ductape is a carryover from the earlier latin version of Greasespot, when it was called "Greasaparatza". It's buried now in some include file on the server but initiates if you ask for persmission to post. The file name is "rule9_obscurata.inc" and is coded so that if you ask permission to post the answer is "NO!" automatically. So I guess it's kind of too late for that. Best we ignore this and act like nothing happened.
"People who are animal rights activists protests with signs that say, "A hamburger stops a beating heart." Someone drives by and throws garbage at us, usually rotting meat. We sign kum-by-yah, and the police come saying we are disturbing the peace. "
Their presumed moral indignation, their targeting mainly kids, their zeal to codify their absurd "moral agenda" into law, their ABSOLUTE disregard for private property rights and their total disregard for individual values might be a reason for peoples rage.
When people stand in front of eateries displaying their signs of moral indigation to intimidate decent folks who are simply going to eat, they should be jailed.
It's NOT about dietary choice. If these people kept to themselves and minded their own business, nobody would care about their personal dietary habits.
So, is it ok to post about animal rights activists, even if the subject isn't exactly that?
I will get brave and jump in, remember Mork and Mindy the TV comedy? Mork (Robin Williams) went to the fridge and saw eggs. He would take an egg and toss it and shout, "be free" and the egg would smash as it hit the ground. That has been my real life experience when cleaning up after the messes the animal rights movements have left real people to deal with.
VEE-gun in my neck of the woods, but there's really no right or wrong way. Its pronounced differently depending on where you're from.
Ron, didn't you start a thread a while ago about people giving away the PETA comic books to kids? I'm sorry the activists' campaigns you've come across have been so awful. If that were my only exposure to animal rights, I'd be protesting on the other side.
And you are absolutely right. Its not just about dietary choice, at least for me, and I won't presume to speak for all veg*ns. Its about treating all living things with dignity and compassion.
Thanks for your reply, Ron. It helps to know not everyone's contact with animal rights has been about peace and love.
"Ron, didn't you start a thread a while ago about people giving away the PETA comic books to kids? "
Yes, I did. Such organizations target children and adolescents, usurping that authority of parents.
"And you are absolutely right. Its not just about dietary choice,..."
At least you admit it.
"Its about treating all living things with dignity and compassion."
If that were true, then why don't they start with their fellow humans? Show a little "dignity and compassion" for individual rights and choices, parental rights and private property rights.
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Belle
Vegan, I think that's precisely why it's so annoying.
I remember all too well the arrogance and almost bully-like behavior I exhibited as a TWIt and responded very badly toward those who refused to accept and believe what I believed. Almost like reformed smokers can also be the most offensive and most offended by smokers in their vicinity.
I do believe that a lot of the "converts" to veg*ism years ago were a lot like the religious zealot that I was. Nowadays, through more "humane" behavior on the parts of many of the veg*s there have been great changes and more acceptance of that lifestyle. Look at how many more options there are in stores and how much more widespread "organic" produce is available. Those kinds of changes don't happen when people are butting heads constantly, so there has definitely been a shift in the "how" of communication on the parts of both veg*s and omnivores. I, for one, am glad about that because I do buy organic and I do buy products geared toward veg*s. I eat healthy, but that healthy also includes meat.
I may not have been as clear as I could have in my earlier post. In the past I seemed to only run into the annoying, zealous veg*s, but in the past few years I have yet to run into one. All the veg*s I know today and had occasion to interact with have either not mentioned their diet or not made a big deal about it. And that's the way I think it should be - for all of us - for all topics/habits/lifestyles - and we all do have those personal things that we are extremely passionate about.
I think the perception comes from run-ins with the obnoxious fringe element, which did seem to be extremely pervasive in my sphere of influence for quite some time. I think it's like when we go to a restaurant that's on the verge of becoming our favorite place to eat and we encounter very bad service a couple of times. Those two bad experiences taint the whole perception and feeling about the restaurant despite all the good encounters.
You have been respectful and I hope that you didn't take my steak comment as offensive. I was just trying to bring a little levity to the post. So, in the words Oakspear hates so much, "IF I offended you, I'm truly sorry." :)
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Bramble
I have never run into the bully type vegetarians, though I know several.
I tend to see people who want to preach at me --for whatever reason--as not really interested in me the person at all, but in me as a possible new vessel for what ever it is they are preaching. Distasteful, and those will be people I avoid. A hold over from TWI, I guess.
I have a brother who rarely eats meat, though he will eat at a family dinner like Christmas. His reasons are health and environmental. He is also enviably thin and in great shape in his forties.
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WordWolf
"I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals,
I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants!"
"Vegetarian: from an old Indian word meaning 'bad hunter' "
Although I'm aware there are very preachy and obnoxious vegetarians and vegans out there,
they tend to leave me alone.
In fact, I've eaten at the same time with them, and they've left me alone.
I'm perfectly fine with adults eating whatever they want so long as it's not going to
kill them immediately.
Want to sit down to a plate of raw turnips? Fine with me.
Fish eyes? Knock yourself out. I'll be eating this tuna over here.
Dry wheat toast? Enjoy it.
The ones that put in the time and eat nutritionally-balanced stuff?
More power to them.
I'll be eating this meat in moderation.
The Surgeon General has determined that trying to take the food of my plate
can be hazardous to your health.
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tonto
My experience with veg's has been mostly friends of my son, and they've all been lovely.
The only bad experience I can remember is on the way to my first ROA in 1974. This girl was some believer's sister and one of the six passengers in a five passenger car. She was going to the rock primarily to sell handmade shirts or some gauzey-hippie-type craft. Anyway, on the way there she made an spectacle of herself at a restaurant by being rude to the waitress and ranting about all of us "eating our brothers and sisters" (breakfast meat...insert your own joke here).
I was so embarrassed I wanted to crawl under the table.
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WordWolf
Let's see if this works....
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HAPe4me
blah humbug. thanks for the "in your face" attempt at pffft humor. Personally, I think such reverse contentiousness is every bit as annoying as any overzealous defender of animal rights. Certainly some will think it funny, not unlike some of those who applaud blowing up carlots of SUVs or cutting fences at feed lots. I don't consider either the least bit humerous.
~HAP
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coolchef
gee ya know i have to doff my hat to vegans
i was thinking about doing a vegan meal tonight{really}
my first thought? pasta primavera
i love it....but the cream...so that's out
next i thought of..eggplant parm. i like that too,but eggs in the breading
i guess what i am trying to say is that for a vegan to eat good they have to be very creative so again i doff my hat to them
how about sending some recipes down to the kitchen forum??
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Ron G.
It's each individuals right to eat as they see fit. I start having problems when people choose to claim some sort of moral high ground regarding personal choices.
If you look at the PETA web site and many vegan information sites such as www.vegsource.com, you have to notice that all their rhetoric is aimed at adolescents and children. They PRESUME to know what's best for all of us and PRESUME to take the responisbility of raising children away from adults with whome they disagree.
The moral indignation and their targeting kids along with their zeal to codify their "moral agenda" into law, their ABSOLUTE disregard for private property rights and their total disregard for indidual values renders them worthy of any rage that might come their way.
Perhaps some vegans don't desrve this baggage, but then most Christians don't deserve the baggage that most liberals assign them, either.
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socks
I know if you don't cook them long enough they can end up with a tough taste, chewy.
At least, that's been my experience.
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Ductape
Do I have permission to reply here and before I do are there any specific special hidden rules I need to know about?
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VeganXTC
Belle said
Ah! I totally understand this one. And I'll be the first one to agree that there are veg*ns that are so obnoxious that I don't want to be around them. But what I find so bewildering is the extreme reaction. Its not so bad as the gay community experiences; no one has been killed because they are veg*n, at least that I know of, but well, here's an example.
People who are pro- life protest with signs that say, "Abortion stops a beating heart." They sing kum-by-yah, and go home at the end of the day.
People who are animal rights activists protests with signs that say, "A hamburger stops a beating heart." Someone drives by and throws garbage at us, usually rotting meat. We sign kum-by-yah, and the police come saying we are disturbing the peace.
So, what I don't understand, why is there no reaction to the pro-life protest, lots of negative reaction to the animal activists? Or maybe every protest has trouble, and I just don't see it.
Ductape, this isn't my thread, but why wouldn't you be able to post?
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ChasUFarley
You just posted, didn't you? <_<
Did you have to ask permission before you did it? Or did you just hit the "Add Reply" button like the rest of us?
And hidden rules? If they're hidden, what makes you think we know about them?
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socks
The only one I know of Ductape is a carryover from the earlier latin version of Greasespot, when it was called "Greasaparatza". It's buried now in some include file on the server but initiates if you ask for persmission to post. The file name is "rule9_obscurata.inc" and is coded so that if you ask permission to post the answer is "NO!" automatically. So I guess it's kind of too late for that. Best we ignore this and act like nothing happened.
If anyone asks, I didn't see anything.
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ChattyKathy
Chas and Socksman........
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excathedra
my sister-in-law is a new vegan
our whole (big) family spends much time worried about what to put on the menu for her at our family parties
she is beautiful and gracious and i love her to death, vegan or whatever :)
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HAPe4me
hah, excat got Chatkat's coveted top of the page slot.
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excathedra
oops sowwy
i like the bottom so you can see what the h ell i'm talking about (well maybe)
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ChattyKathy
I'll be a good girl and keep my mouth shut about the top and the bottom.
But I'm glad you got the joy of that dang top spot and any time you want to borrow it please feel free.
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socks
Rookie question -
Is it pronounced "Vee - gun"
Or "Vay - gan"....?
"Veh - jan"?
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Ron G.
"People who are animal rights activists protests with signs that say, "A hamburger stops a beating heart." Someone drives by and throws garbage at us, usually rotting meat. We sign kum-by-yah, and the police come saying we are disturbing the peace. "
Their presumed moral indignation, their targeting mainly kids, their zeal to codify their absurd "moral agenda" into law, their ABSOLUTE disregard for private property rights and their total disregard for individual values might be a reason for peoples rage.
When people stand in front of eateries displaying their signs of moral indigation to intimidate decent folks who are simply going to eat, they should be jailed.
It's NOT about dietary choice. If these people kept to themselves and minded their own business, nobody would care about their personal dietary habits.
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Ductape
So, is it ok to post about animal rights activists, even if the subject isn't exactly that?
I will get brave and jump in, remember Mork and Mindy the TV comedy? Mork (Robin Williams) went to the fridge and saw eggs. He would take an egg and toss it and shout, "be free" and the egg would smash as it hit the ground. That has been my real life experience when cleaning up after the messes the animal rights movements have left real people to deal with.
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VeganXTC
VEE-gun in my neck of the woods, but there's really no right or wrong way. Its pronounced differently depending on where you're from.
Ron, didn't you start a thread a while ago about people giving away the PETA comic books to kids? I'm sorry the activists' campaigns you've come across have been so awful. If that were my only exposure to animal rights, I'd be protesting on the other side.
And you are absolutely right. Its not just about dietary choice, at least for me, and I won't presume to speak for all veg*ns. Its about treating all living things with dignity and compassion.
Thanks for your reply, Ron. It helps to know not everyone's contact with animal rights has been about peace and love.
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socks
Thanks! I'll go with that VeganXTC! :)
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Ron G.
"Ron, didn't you start a thread a while ago about people giving away the PETA comic books to kids? "
Yes, I did. Such organizations target children and adolescents, usurping that authority of parents.
"And you are absolutely right. Its not just about dietary choice,..."
At least you admit it.
"Its about treating all living things with dignity and compassion."
If that were true, then why don't they start with their fellow humans? Show a little "dignity and compassion" for individual rights and choices, parental rights and private property rights.
Maybe then, they could be taken seriously.
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