We have a very similar problem here. We have wild turkeys and beaver who wander across the roads near our home.
We did hit a beaver once and lost the bumper and front end alignment.
But it is the turkeys that are most often seen on the pavement. They are huge and when you hit them you are definitely going to lose a headlight, or ding the grill. But it is all forest on both sides of the road. Swerving means your going to go down into the ditch and right into trees.
Around here you do not swerve.
Now I have seen moose standing in the road. And I have always stopped for them and honked. I have been fortunate to have never hit a moose. Though I see it in the local paper routinely where folks do hit the moose. It pretty much always total a car, and commonly enough kills the driver. But hitting them straight on with speed, you have a chance of it coming down on your car behind the front seat and flattening everything on the rear half of the car, but only if you hit them fast enough.
Maybe some people get upset with Veg*'s because it would seem that MOST of them, not all, but the majority, think that they need to push that lifestyle on everyone else. I don't really care what you eat or don't eat. It's none of my business. So why do veg*'s make it a religion?
People in general have a tendency to foucus on a few wrongs that they would like to see set right. Smoking, women's rights, racism, alcoholism, etc. If their personality is such, they can get pretty adamant about a subject, even activist status. But I don't think the majority of any of these movements is bent on pushing the lifestyle on others. They merely support the fanatics that are out front on the issue. The majority are much more reasonable, but they don't get the press.
I doubt the majority of believers were fanatics about going door to door, and probably were quite uncomfortable. But a Minority thrived on that kind of in your face assault. Same as Vegans.
But I don't think the majority of any of these movements is bent on pushing the lifestyle on others. They merely support the fanatics that are out front on the issue. The majority are much more reasonable, but they don't get the press.
Jerry
Isn't that a contradiction? They support the fanatics? Does that not make them as fanatical because they support the zealots to perpetuate the negative stereotype? Aren't the fanatics the ones pushing the lifestyle? They're the ones who team up with PETA to put together all that horrific propaganda and condemn those who disagree with them. OR am I reading that wrong? I'm only two cups of coffee into the day, so it's highly likely.
From my own personal experience, the majority of the veg*s I have encountered personally were obnoxious and extremely judgmental about it. They jump at any opportunity to condemn carnivores and can quickly and easily change the whole topic of a conversation to why people shouldn't eat meat.
I think that others who have a definite distaste for veg*s have encountered the same type of people over and over again - not merely as rare occurrence. Thankfully, within the past 2-3 years, I've met some rather decent veg*s who don't advertise or proselytize their decision to be veg*, but they are certainly in the minority among all those I've met. For some reason, there seems to be more zealous veg*s and animal rights activists than with other "movements". *shrug* At least, that's been my personal experience, ymmv.
I don't really care what someone eats or doesn't eat, but I do care when they start telling me about how mis-treated the animals are and how inhumanely they are killed just so I can eat meat. If I want to know more about your diet or about what you know and why you're a veg*, I'll ask - and I have on occasion.
Believe what you want - fine with me - but don't try to convert me, especially while I've got a really nice hot and juicy medium rare NY Strip sitting in front of me.
I love to eat meat and have no guilt regarding it at all.
I also respect someone that choses not to.
I think certain animals were given to us by God for substances.
Some would call me an animal.
I think some of this anger comes from personal believes perhaps. Mixed in with the fact some like myself feel it is possible to worship the creation over the creator.
At 14, my middle son became a vegetarian. He was concerned that we, his parents, might not approve.
He was relieved when I told him, that we too, are vegetarians...except when we eat meat.
That was over six years ago...he is still the big V...his fiance is not. He has made it a real practicing choice and never proselytizes about animal rites blah blah blah...but pretty much anything with a face he does not ingest. He is currently fighting a anti-defamation suit brought against him by soy beings of america...
Frankly, I wish I didn't like meat products, but there you go...but my reasons for eating far less
meat etc. is not becuz of the animals are (like) people too school of thought, it is becuz of the chemicals and antibiotics and such that they are fed or the condition they are raised in.
Thank God we live in a place where food and food types are so at the ready (sheesh...all that to avoid saying "abundant" or "available"...lol) that we have the choice to be picky.
People jamming things down other people's gullet is always obnoxious, no matter what the issue.
As much as we squirm at the thought of this man even he had the right idea on how off we have become regarding things given us by God for nourishment. He felt one day would come that folks would be in an uproar because we were eating plants stating for the zealous ones that plants have rights also. He wasn't off base on that view.
I used to be a vegetarian and probably will go back to it someday. I like the taste of meat but I liked how I felt (health) better when I was a vegetarian. I'm not one who is real disciplined to exercise, so its easier for me to regulate my diet than to make time to work out. I still ate dairy and egg products - I probably wouldn't give those up, but I prefer soy milk to cow's milk - I like the taste (and so do my kids). Perhaps when my babies are older I'll have more time to exercise but its not possible right now.
I have concerns with how meat is processed - not just that the kill is humane but that the conditions are sanitary. Now I hear that radiation is being used to make sure meat does not have deadly germs. Its sad to think my hamburger glows in the dark - is it worth it? Also, why should something die because I feel like having a burger or a hot dog or whatever? Isn't there enough other food available on this earth? Honestly.
For me, I guess, it's more about moderation than it is about a "cause"...
Personally, anyone who is a radical _________________________ (fill in the blank with the group, cult, belief, etc., of your choice) is a big turn off. I just avoid people who live, sleep and breathe ________________________ - I don't bother with them. They're on their trip and I don't have time to understand it and far be it from me to try to change them.
Casually looking thru this thread, I was saddened at the thought of all the poor innocent tomatoes that die each year so rich kids can eat their pizza...not to mention the ketchup used on those horribly cut potatoes that were inhumanely boiled in oil.
How sad.
I don't know about all of you, but I've violently and cruelly cut onions up with gleeful abandon, and it ALWAYS makes me cry.
Wow! Well, Bluzeman, thanks for starting this thread, and thanks to everyone else your your kind, well thought out responses, and all the great jokes.
So, I guess the anger comes from veg*ns trying to force our lifestyle onto omnivores, if I'm reading the responses correctly. I dunno, I'm a little slow, but I don't understand. I was in a cult where I tried to convert everyone I saw. I went door to door witnessing. I went mall witnessing. I went WOW so I could take a whole year trying to make people believe exactly the same way I do. And I never experienced the hatred that I get from being vegan.
When I was with TWI, if you didn't believe the way I did, that was the end of you! I had nothing to do with you. I thought you were demon posessed, or born from the devil himself. Now, that I'm vegan, I'll still want to be with you no matter how you feel about animals, and share your joys and sorrows, and be part of your life. And while I may wish you treated animals the way I feel they should be treated, I don't think anyone is evil. But I have heard more vile insults and degradation in my short time of being vegan than I have in all the years I was with TWI.
I guess I just don't understand the amount of anger. Sure, veg*ns are annoying. But why the rage?
My son was a vegetarian for years, but probably because he didn't make the greatest food choices all the time, he found that he needed more protein living at the high altitudes of Colorado and went back to eating meat.
He respectfully refrained from pushing vegetarianism on me or anyone else in the family. We respectfully made sure that when he was in town and eating with us, we had plenty of non-meat foods for him to enjoy.
I also had a close friend who was a vegetarian. I spent lots of time with her, and we ate together often and even camped together. She never pushed her beliefs on me or looked down on me for my omnivore ways.
I have two friends at work who very rarely eat meat. Again, they've never judged me or pushed anything on me. Nor do I make fun of them for their dietary choices.
Does anyone see a pattern here? It's called mutual respect.
I might be oversensitive on behalf of the vegetarians/vegans among us, but I think it's unkind to make jokes like "next to my mashed potatoes" in the presence of someone who feels passionately about not killing for food. But alas, that's typical. Many people can't just disagree; they have to throw in some derision.
Vegan, I think you've been quite patient and not pushy about your beliefs at all. Thank you, and please don't think that everyone around here looks down on your lifestyle. I respect you for making your choice and sticking to it. I don't see myself giving up meat any time soon, but I certainly respect your principles--and you for having them.
Oh, and Rick: I don't think you're a mean animal hater. I certainly have nothing against hunters who are hunting for food. Those critters probably have less difficult deaths than the animals in most slaughterhouses. I have great disdain for people who hunt merely for sport, though. I REALLY don't get that at all.
For myself like the example I gave of my coworker who held animals in higher regard than humans I understood why in her case but it still wasn't healthy thinking. I can see Vegan doesn't hold animals above people she just doesn't chose to eat them. And Dot doesn't hold animals above people but she does recognize people that act worst than animals ever would.
I think if we worship the creation over the creator we are on the loosing side and in time it will take its toll. That for me is why I have had conversations that were less than friendly, when someone considered anything more important than the dignity of the human being.
Maybe that is why some folks get enraged over this subject. Just my thoughts FWIW.
There are times when I "wish" I could do the vegetarian thing, not from any spiritual standpoint but because it's supposed to be healthier for you... but I never get around to it for some reason... maybe it's because meat is so convenient...
Yikes, I see this turned into a really long post- but I had fun writing it, and ohhhh the memories it brings back to me. I hope you find it entertaining.
I am a bit taken back by what seems to be many people's experience with Vegans and Vegetarians. It has not at all been my experience. I guess maybe I have had one or two times where someone got kindy preachy, but the huge majority of the time there has been no problem. I have been to vegan graduation parties, and found the fare tasty and the guests quite enjoyable. The chocoalate cake at the last one was unbelievable, and made with no dairy. I have seen SOMETIMES people are defensive when they meet vegans, and take whatever is said as being "pushy", when it is our own misunderstanding on the diet that is at fault.
One of my boys and his girlfriend of several years is vegetarian, they will eat dairy products and eggs. She actually has been vegetarian since she was old enough to prepare food for herself in her meateater parent's home (about age 11). My other son and his girlfriend are VERY staunch vegans for over three years. They will not eat anything with animal products in it. They are devout label readers, and not afraid to ask a restaurant if they have any question. (yes, they stay away from leather shoes, and try extremely hard to purchase clothes and whatever made without any animal contributions. there is really quite a burgeoning market for them now.
The vegan kids seriously pursue this, FOR THEIR OWN BETTERMENT AND CONSCIENCE, and I applaud them for doing so. It is alot of work. Their nutrition is very balanced, achieved through self education and research. I completely fail to understand people's imagination here that vegans lack necessary nutrients, especially the comments on protein. What, do you guys think protein only comes from meat? When they visit our home, they cheerfully prepare dinner for all of us, and they have been the tastiest, flavorful and most nutritionally balanced meals I have ever had the pleasure of enjoying. It does take them several hours to prepare these feasts, but it is their joy and hobby to do so. Even their daily meals at their home take more time than I do to slap an animal on the grill. but I have no concern for their well-rounded nutrition.
I spent 3 weeks with them in Italy and Germany, 24 hours a day. Food was never an issue, nor did they ever make their personal lifestyle a burden or any confrontation with my wife and I, (both meateaters- but learning) Italy was easy, lots of outdoor markets with beans, vegetables and variety, and many bio-stores with numerous products for them to indulge in. They graze throughout the day, as they pass markets etc. Even the better gilato spots have 3 or 4 non-dairy varieties. No faces were made whatsoever when I often steered away from vegan diets and partook of the local lamb, fish or whatever the local specialty was. Not once. The kids joined in with the same great conversation skills, no matter what anyone else was eating. Conversing cheerfullly with us and the locals.
Now, Germans are ALL about their sausages and cheese, I was a little concerned about whether they would be able to find sufficient foods while there, since they knew very little German and depended on me to help translate once we left "their country". There was no need to fret. I was visiting a German friend I met online 9 years ago doing genealogy research, and have kept up with him till we finallly met in person this fall. The first night in Idstein, he and his wife had prepared a "coldcut and vegetable plate" for us after our 12 hour train from Venice. Eric nibbled at what he could eat, and was his usual gracious self. When our host kept trying to get him to try some of the sausage and cheese varieties, he calmly declined. Eventually in order to explain and not seem ungrateful, he did finally explain his life-style, but certainly with no sense of confrontation or dissatisfaction. The next day we were on our own as Wolfgang had to work. The following day we drove across Germany to the east, stopping at Wartburg, where Martin Luther hid from the Pope as he translated the bible into German..
Most European hotels include a full breakfast with the rate. We figured there would be a few things the kids could eat, fruit, some of the breads, whatever, enough to make it through the morning anyway. Neither the kids nor myself would have any intention of bringing up their special diet preferences, we'd just make do. Well, sure enough at the first breakfast, we walk in and there are 15 different meats, 12 different cheeses, eggs, breads, fruits and yogurts spread out. As we sit and start with coffee, the owner of the hotel and restaurant comes to the table, with a basket in his hands. He turns to Eric and Alycia, and says, (in a German /English mix) "for our special friends from America, I have prepared this basket especially for you." It was loaded with $30 of specially selected foods from the bio-store! totallly animal-free and delicious. My friend's wife apparently had called in the afternoon on her Handi as we drove, and told Herr Abendroth of Eric and Alycia. Incredible! It was certainly gratefully received yet unexpected and unnecessary. They had a new basket every morning for the week we were guests. At night, Herr Abendroth specially prepared an off- menu dinner dish for them too! If Eric had in anyway offended my friend by refusing his meats, or in the way he explained his preferences, or if in any manner it was imagined that he was confrontational, I can't see this grace having been extended to him.
Anyway, I wanted to share these experiances of a different kind about some vegans I truly love to be around. They and their many friends who I have mete are always welcome here. I know there will be plenty of laughs as they point out the ingredients I missed on whatever I bought, some calm and rational discussion on the subject, and we will eat hardily, all with smiles.
I want to make it clear that the hate and rage I have experienced has not come from Greasespot. I love posting here, and I enjoy the humor (CoolChef, hell yeah, we're buds!) and the insight, and the great hearts that are here.
I think some types of people I will never understand, like those who hate because someone is different, in whatever way. But that's a whole different thread.
I can't make a real long post today as my arthritis is VERY painfull this morning. But I want to address a few issues.
First, I wanted to make it clear that I have no problem with anyone being a Veg*. Hey, I'm an old, former acid-head...some of my best friends are vegetables. OK, bad joke! But seriously, the only thing I have a problem with is someone shoving their lifestyle in my face. This apply's to Veg*'s, religious fanatics, gay's, anyone who takes a lifestyle and makes a religion out of it. If you look at the link to the Peta site in my first post, you will see why a lot of people have problems with Veg*'s. And yes, I know every group has it's fringe elements. I was a card-carrying member of Greenpeace for a number of years until the Sierra Club and fringe groups like that began to associate themselves with Greenpeace. Somehow, spikeing trees so the chain on the saw would break and maim or kill a lumberjack just wasn't my idea of "helping" the environment.
Funny how this ties into some other recent threads though. "I don't like you because your a Vegetarian". That is almost as ignorant as saying "I don't like you because you are black". Tolerance is needed on both sides, veg and non-veg.
Linda, I'm with you, I don't get sport hunting either. If I go hunting, I am going to use what I kill for meat. Or at least give it to someone who WILL. For example, I do not like squirrel, but I go squirrel hunting with one of my hunting buddies and give my squirrel to him as him and his family love squirrel.
OK, there's more I would like to discuss but maybe later. I'm in too much pain at the moment.
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Galen
Bluzeman-
We have a very similar problem here. We have wild turkeys and beaver who wander across the roads near our home.
We did hit a beaver once and lost the bumper and front end alignment.
But it is the turkeys that are most often seen on the pavement. They are huge and when you hit them you are definitely going to lose a headlight, or ding the grill. But it is all forest on both sides of the road. Swerving means your going to go down into the ditch and right into trees.
Around here you do not swerve.
Now I have seen moose standing in the road. And I have always stopped for them and honked. I have been fortunate to have never hit a moose. Though I see it in the local paper routinely where folks do hit the moose. It pretty much always total a car, and commonly enough kills the driver. But hitting them straight on with speed, you have a chance of it coming down on your car behind the front seat and flattening everything on the rear half of the car, but only if you hit them fast enough.
Still nobody recommend swerving.
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DrtyDzn
I doubt the majority of believers were fanatics about going door to door, and probably were quite uncomfortable. But a Minority thrived on that kind of in your face assault. Same as Vegans.
Jerry
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Belle
Isn't that a contradiction? They support the fanatics? Does that not make them as fanatical because they support the zealots to perpetuate the negative stereotype? Aren't the fanatics the ones pushing the lifestyle? They're the ones who team up with PETA to put together all that horrific propaganda and condemn those who disagree with them. OR am I reading that wrong? I'm only two cups of coffee into the day, so it's highly likely.
From my own personal experience, the majority of the veg*s I have encountered personally were obnoxious and extremely judgmental about it. They jump at any opportunity to condemn carnivores and can quickly and easily change the whole topic of a conversation to why people shouldn't eat meat.
I think that others who have a definite distaste for veg*s have encountered the same type of people over and over again - not merely as rare occurrence. Thankfully, within the past 2-3 years, I've met some rather decent veg*s who don't advertise or proselytize their decision to be veg*, but they are certainly in the minority among all those I've met. For some reason, there seems to be more zealous veg*s and animal rights activists than with other "movements". *shrug* At least, that's been my personal experience, ymmv.
I don't really care what someone eats or doesn't eat, but I do care when they start telling me about how mis-treated the animals are and how inhumanely they are killed just so I can eat meat. If I want to know more about your diet or about what you know and why you're a veg*, I'll ask - and I have on occasion.
Believe what you want - fine with me - but don't try to convert me, especially while I've got a really nice hot and juicy medium rare NY Strip sitting in front of me.
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ChattyKathy
This goes here now also.
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MATILDA
At 14, my middle son became a vegetarian. He was concerned that we, his parents, might not approve.
He was relieved when I told him, that we too, are vegetarians...except when we eat meat.
That was over six years ago...he is still the big V...his fiance is not. He has made it a real practicing choice and never proselytizes about animal rites blah blah blah...but pretty much anything with a face he does not ingest. He is currently fighting a anti-defamation suit brought against him by soy beings of america...
Frankly, I wish I didn't like meat products, but there you go...but my reasons for eating far less
meat etc. is not becuz of the animals are (like) people too school of thought, it is becuz of the chemicals and antibiotics and such that they are fed or the condition they are raised in.
Thank God we live in a place where food and food types are so at the ready (sheesh...all that to avoid saying "abundant" or "available"...lol) that we have the choice to be picky.
People jamming things down other people's gullet is always obnoxious, no matter what the issue.
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Oakspear
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coolchef
again Belle said it all for me {{{{{{{{belle}}}}}}}}}}}
i eat red meat only a few times a month only because i like fish chicken and pork better
god put animals on this earth to be right beside the potato AND veg.
in the summer i ALMOST turn into a vegitarian only because i enjoy the stuff comming from our garden
i won't preach cow to you if you don't preach tufo to me
especcially if you are wearing a belt,shoes or carring a purse made from leather.
again Belle said it all for me {{{{{{{{belle}}}}}}}}}}}
i eat red meat only a few times a month only because i like fish chicken and pork better
god put animals on this earth to be right beside the potato AND veg.
in the summer i ALMOST turn into a vegitarian only because i enjoy the stuff comming from our garden
i won't preach cow to you if you don't preach tufo to me
especcially if you are wearing a belt,shoes or carring a purse made from leather.
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templelady
Amen
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ChattyKathy
As much as we squirm at the thought of this man even he had the right idea on how off we have become regarding things given us by God for nourishment. He felt one day would come that folks would be in an uproar because we were eating plants stating for the zealous ones that plants have rights also. He wasn't off base on that view.
Isn't that right Craig?!
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ChasUFarley
I used to be a vegetarian and probably will go back to it someday. I like the taste of meat but I liked how I felt (health) better when I was a vegetarian. I'm not one who is real disciplined to exercise, so its easier for me to regulate my diet than to make time to work out. I still ate dairy and egg products - I probably wouldn't give those up, but I prefer soy milk to cow's milk - I like the taste (and so do my kids). Perhaps when my babies are older I'll have more time to exercise but its not possible right now.
I have concerns with how meat is processed - not just that the kill is humane but that the conditions are sanitary. Now I hear that radiation is being used to make sure meat does not have deadly germs. Its sad to think my hamburger glows in the dark - is it worth it? Also, why should something die because I feel like having a burger or a hot dog or whatever? Isn't there enough other food available on this earth? Honestly.
For me, I guess, it's more about moderation than it is about a "cause"...
Personally, anyone who is a radical _________________________ (fill in the blank with the group, cult, belief, etc., of your choice) is a big turn off. I just avoid people who live, sleep and breathe ________________________ - I don't bother with them. They're on their trip and I don't have time to understand it and far be it from me to try to change them.
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Ron G.
Casually looking thru this thread, I was saddened at the thought of all the poor innocent tomatoes that die each year so rich kids can eat their pizza...not to mention the ketchup used on those horribly cut potatoes that were inhumanely boiled in oil.
How sad.
I don't know about all of you, but I've violently and cruelly cut onions up with gleeful abandon, and it ALWAYS makes me cry.
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ChattyKathy
Ron,
You best be careful now beings there are a few of us going to heck in a hand basket and you just might be joining us with that kind of talk.
Chas,
Good points on the manner food is taken care of.
But then I'm going to heck ya know.
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VeganXTC
Wow! Well, Bluzeman, thanks for starting this thread, and thanks to everyone else your your kind, well thought out responses, and all the great jokes.
So, I guess the anger comes from veg*ns trying to force our lifestyle onto omnivores, if I'm reading the responses correctly. I dunno, I'm a little slow, but I don't understand. I was in a cult where I tried to convert everyone I saw. I went door to door witnessing. I went mall witnessing. I went WOW so I could take a whole year trying to make people believe exactly the same way I do. And I never experienced the hatred that I get from being vegan.
When I was with TWI, if you didn't believe the way I did, that was the end of you! I had nothing to do with you. I thought you were demon posessed, or born from the devil himself. Now, that I'm vegan, I'll still want to be with you no matter how you feel about animals, and share your joys and sorrows, and be part of your life. And while I may wish you treated animals the way I feel they should be treated, I don't think anyone is evil. But I have heard more vile insults and degradation in my short time of being vegan than I have in all the years I was with TWI.
I guess I just don't understand the amount of anger. Sure, veg*ns are annoying. But why the rage?
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coolchef
honey if you wish to be a vegan i sure don't hold it against you!
whay ever works for you may not work for me but we are still buds,right?
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Linda Z
My son was a vegetarian for years, but probably because he didn't make the greatest food choices all the time, he found that he needed more protein living at the high altitudes of Colorado and went back to eating meat.
He respectfully refrained from pushing vegetarianism on me or anyone else in the family. We respectfully made sure that when he was in town and eating with us, we had plenty of non-meat foods for him to enjoy.
I also had a close friend who was a vegetarian. I spent lots of time with her, and we ate together often and even camped together. She never pushed her beliefs on me or looked down on me for my omnivore ways.
I have two friends at work who very rarely eat meat. Again, they've never judged me or pushed anything on me. Nor do I make fun of them for their dietary choices.
Does anyone see a pattern here? It's called mutual respect.
I might be oversensitive on behalf of the vegetarians/vegans among us, but I think it's unkind to make jokes like "next to my mashed potatoes" in the presence of someone who feels passionately about not killing for food. But alas, that's typical. Many people can't just disagree; they have to throw in some derision.
Vegan, I think you've been quite patient and not pushy about your beliefs at all. Thank you, and please don't think that everyone around here looks down on your lifestyle. I respect you for making your choice and sticking to it. I don't see myself giving up meat any time soon, but I certainly respect your principles--and you for having them.
Oh, and Rick: I don't think you're a mean animal hater. I certainly have nothing against hunters who are hunting for food. Those critters probably have less difficult deaths than the animals in most slaughterhouses. I have great disdain for people who hunt merely for sport, though. I REALLY don't get that at all.
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coolchef
linda,
that was me who said"right next to the potatos"
vegan knew it was not meant as a slam
why did you take it that way?
vegan from reading her post has a sense of humor
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Linda Z
Coolchef, I admitted I might be oversensitive. I know you're a good guy, but that bugged me.
I'm glad if Vegan took it with a sense of humor.
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ChattyKathy
For myself like the example I gave of my coworker who held animals in higher regard than humans I understood why in her case but it still wasn't healthy thinking. I can see Vegan doesn't hold animals above people she just doesn't chose to eat them. And Dot doesn't hold animals above people but she does recognize people that act worst than animals ever would.
I think if we worship the creation over the creator we are on the loosing side and in time it will take its toll. That for me is why I have had conversations that were less than friendly, when someone considered anything more important than the dignity of the human being.
Maybe that is why some folks get enraged over this subject. Just my thoughts FWIW.
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Tom Strange
There are times when I "wish" I could do the vegetarian thing, not from any spiritual standpoint but because it's supposed to be healthier for you... but I never get around to it for some reason... maybe it's because meat is so convenient...
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HAPe4me
Yikes, I see this turned into a really long post- but I had fun writing it, and ohhhh the memories it brings back to me. I hope you find it entertaining.
I am a bit taken back by what seems to be many people's experience with Vegans and Vegetarians. It has not at all been my experience. I guess maybe I have had one or two times where someone got kindy preachy, but the huge majority of the time there has been no problem. I have been to vegan graduation parties, and found the fare tasty and the guests quite enjoyable. The chocoalate cake at the last one was unbelievable, and made with no dairy. I have seen SOMETIMES people are defensive when they meet vegans, and take whatever is said as being "pushy", when it is our own misunderstanding on the diet that is at fault.
One of my boys and his girlfriend of several years is vegetarian, they will eat dairy products and eggs. She actually has been vegetarian since she was old enough to prepare food for herself in her meateater parent's home (about age 11). My other son and his girlfriend are VERY staunch vegans for over three years. They will not eat anything with animal products in it. They are devout label readers, and not afraid to ask a restaurant if they have any question. (yes, they stay away from leather shoes, and try extremely hard to purchase clothes and whatever made without any animal contributions. there is really quite a burgeoning market for them now.
The vegan kids seriously pursue this, FOR THEIR OWN BETTERMENT AND CONSCIENCE, and I applaud them for doing so. It is alot of work. Their nutrition is very balanced, achieved through self education and research. I completely fail to understand people's imagination here that vegans lack necessary nutrients, especially the comments on protein. What, do you guys think protein only comes from meat? When they visit our home, they cheerfully prepare dinner for all of us, and they have been the tastiest, flavorful and most nutritionally balanced meals I have ever had the pleasure of enjoying. It does take them several hours to prepare these feasts, but it is their joy and hobby to do so. Even their daily meals at their home take more time than I do to slap an animal on the grill. but I have no concern for their well-rounded nutrition.
I spent 3 weeks with them in Italy and Germany, 24 hours a day. Food was never an issue, nor did they ever make their personal lifestyle a burden or any confrontation with my wife and I, (both meateaters- but learning) Italy was easy, lots of outdoor markets with beans, vegetables and variety, and many bio-stores with numerous products for them to indulge in. They graze throughout the day, as they pass markets etc. Even the better gilato spots have 3 or 4 non-dairy varieties. No faces were made whatsoever when I often steered away from vegan diets and partook of the local lamb, fish or whatever the local specialty was. Not once. The kids joined in with the same great conversation skills, no matter what anyone else was eating. Conversing cheerfullly with us and the locals.
Now, Germans are ALL about their sausages and cheese, I was a little concerned about whether they would be able to find sufficient foods while there, since they knew very little German and depended on me to help translate once we left "their country". There was no need to fret. I was visiting a German friend I met online 9 years ago doing genealogy research, and have kept up with him till we finallly met in person this fall. The first night in Idstein, he and his wife had prepared a "coldcut and vegetable plate" for us after our 12 hour train from Venice. Eric nibbled at what he could eat, and was his usual gracious self. When our host kept trying to get him to try some of the sausage and cheese varieties, he calmly declined. Eventually in order to explain and not seem ungrateful, he did finally explain his life-style, but certainly with no sense of confrontation or dissatisfaction. The next day we were on our own as Wolfgang had to work. The following day we drove across Germany to the east, stopping at Wartburg, where Martin Luther hid from the Pope as he translated the bible into German..
Most European hotels include a full breakfast with the rate. We figured there would be a few things the kids could eat, fruit, some of the breads, whatever, enough to make it through the morning anyway. Neither the kids nor myself would have any intention of bringing up their special diet preferences, we'd just make do. Well, sure enough at the first breakfast, we walk in and there are 15 different meats, 12 different cheeses, eggs, breads, fruits and yogurts spread out. As we sit and start with coffee, the owner of the hotel and restaurant comes to the table, with a basket in his hands. He turns to Eric and Alycia, and says, (in a German /English mix) "for our special friends from America, I have prepared this basket especially for you." It was loaded with $30 of specially selected foods from the bio-store! totallly animal-free and delicious. My friend's wife apparently had called in the afternoon on her Handi as we drove, and told Herr Abendroth of Eric and Alycia. Incredible! It was certainly gratefully received yet unexpected and unnecessary. They had a new basket every morning for the week we were guests. At night, Herr Abendroth specially prepared an off- menu dinner dish for them too! If Eric had in anyway offended my friend by refusing his meats, or in the way he explained his preferences, or if in any manner it was imagined that he was confrontational, I can't see this grace having been extended to him.
Anyway, I wanted to share these experiances of a different kind about some vegans I truly love to be around. They and their many friends who I have mete are always welcome here. I know there will be plenty of laughs as they point out the ingredients I missed on whatever I bought, some calm and rational discussion on the subject, and we will eat hardily, all with smiles.
~HAPe2eat what is set before him
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VeganXTC
I want to make it clear that the hate and rage I have experienced has not come from Greasespot. I love posting here, and I enjoy the humor (CoolChef, hell yeah, we're buds!) and the insight, and the great hearts that are here.
I think some types of people I will never understand, like those who hate because someone is different, in whatever way. But that's a whole different thread.
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Bluzeman
Lot's of good posts here. Cool!
I can't make a real long post today as my arthritis is VERY painfull this morning. But I want to address a few issues.
First, I wanted to make it clear that I have no problem with anyone being a Veg*. Hey, I'm an old, former acid-head...some of my best friends are vegetables.
OK, bad joke! But seriously, the only thing I have a problem with is someone shoving their lifestyle in my face. This apply's to Veg*'s, religious fanatics, gay's, anyone who takes a lifestyle and makes a religion out of it. If you look at the link to the Peta site in my first post, you will see why a lot of people have problems with Veg*'s. And yes, I know every group has it's fringe elements. I was a card-carrying member of Greenpeace for a number of years until the Sierra Club and fringe groups like that began to associate themselves with Greenpeace. Somehow, spikeing trees so the chain on the saw would break and maim or kill a lumberjack just wasn't my idea of "helping" the environment.
Funny how this ties into some other recent threads though. "I don't like you because your a Vegetarian". That is almost as ignorant as saying "I don't like you because you are black". Tolerance is needed on both sides, veg and non-veg.
Linda, I'm with you, I don't get sport hunting either. If I go hunting, I am going to use what I kill for meat. Or at least give it to someone who WILL. For example, I do not like squirrel, but I go squirrel hunting with one of my hunting buddies and give my squirrel to him as him and his family love squirrel.
OK, there's more I would like to discuss but maybe later. I'm in too much pain at the moment.
Rick
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ChattyKathy
((your hands and wrist dear one))
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ChattyKathy
Hap,
That should go in a book of some sort. History or food, something for certain.
Vegan,
Thanks for that post.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
I have hunted but never for sport just for food. Fishing the same. I don't think that is a sport to kill just because you can.
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