I have never fought cocks, nor were my Pits allowed to attack another animal. Now bulls are another story, yet that fighting always was survival. But I resent you putting all people in the same category, we are all not the problem and we are not horrible. Animals by nature are more cruel than humans ever thought of being and the only thing that has made them sweet is being domesticated by humans.
Its like the time I saw where some horses were neglected and rescued from starvation at the same time a little 6 year old girl was taken from her bed in the night, raped, beaten to death and tossed in the garbage. Guess who got more jail time and bigger fines? Guess what story stayed in the front page the longest?
It is like people making such a big deal out of a dog being out in the rain, chances are the same people drive right by homeless left out in the rain. My gawd, whole herds of wild life stand in the open in sub-zero weather and survive or die.
It makes me wonder where some peoples' true priorities are when they put animals above humans
I have never fought cocks, nor were my Pits allowed to attack another animal. Now bulls are another story, yet that fighting always was survival. But I resent you putting all people in the same category, we are all not the problem and we are not horrible. Animals by nature are more cruel than humans ever thought of being and the only thing that has made them sweet is being domesticated by humans.
I would only comment in that saying that "animals by nature are more cruel than humans ever thought of being", I think that perhaps you are forgetting 'female humans'.
I have never fought cocks, nor were my Pits allowed to attack another animal. Now bulls are another story, yet that fighting always was survival. But I resent you putting all people in the same category, we are all not the problem and we are not horrible. Animals by nature are more cruel than humans ever thought of being and the only thing that has made them sweet is being domesticated by humans.
Its like the time I saw where some horses were neglected and rescued from starvation at the same time a little 6 year old girl was taken from her bed in the night, raped, beaten to death and tossed in the garbage. Guess who got more jail time and bigger fines? Guess what story stayed in the front page the longest?
It is like people making such a big deal out of a dog being out in the rain, chances are the same people drive right by homeless left out in the rain. My gawd, whole herds of wild life stand in the open in sub-zero weather and survive or die.
It makes me wonder where some peoples' true priorities are when they put animals above humans
Sorry, okay many humans besides ductape are horrible. I did not say all humans were horrible but merely showing the damaged dogs and they got that way because humans fought them.
You cannot be serious that that offends you, can you? Sorry you were so offended because people fight their dogs therefore I said people are horrible. I am also a "people" and I do not fight animals either.
Surely as a reasonable person you can see the context of what I was saying and truly not take it as a personal attack because you are human.
But I am not going down that road.
Sorry that a reference to "people" (not all people) but people (a very broad term and if the shoe fits then those people should wear it) seems to have rubbed you the wrong way.
So let me rephrase this, people, the ones responsible for hurting and fighting animals, are horrible. Of which, CLEARLY ductape is not one of them.....
Please feel free to start a different thread on helping children who are being used, abused or made to fight one another.
Surely a 6 year old in the garbage is much greater a loss. Clearly, that is not the tone of this thread, of myself, or any other poster.
But to throw a child in the garbage is horrid. Just terrible. To starve horses is also terrible. But I betcha a PERSON threw the child in the garbage and I bet the horses were starved by a person....
So again, People, not all and clearly not you, are horrible.
God Bless you. I have added the word SOME, I hope that helps.
BTW, though not pertenant to the thread, I cooked dinner for the homeless, I gave money to the homeless and I was involved in helping. But then that is not what this thread is about.... But that is a great topic, go ahead and start your thread, I would love to post on it.
And another good topic Iidea you have is
What is with rescue groups seeming to care more about animals than people.
Good topic
It's just not this topic on this thread. But very interesting, I will look for it, thanks
Come on Duc, I think your points are valid, but really, I do think that Dot was only referring to those who pit the dogs against each other in order to gamble and get their jollies. And, I too have always thought of those people as horrible.
And so Ductape, I think you are so right when you mentioned the breeding factor. I remember awhile back when there was a terrible malady in St Bernards. It was proven that the track that breeders were going down (I can't remember which trait was being sought in the big beautiful beasties) ended up bringing on literal brain damage to the St. Bernard in large numbers, and the dogs had attacked their masters in many situations.
And so, after this had occurred and was medically proven, the St Bernard breeders began to correct the problem by pairing breeding pairs with eachother that were very docile in nature, and prone to being kind and happy. The end result was that now we have St Bernards that are almost goofy and "sloppily lovey dovey". Very docile they are nowadays, according to a breeder with whom I spoke. I was given this explanation when I was playing with his gentle giant and exclaimed at how friendly and kind his monster dog was. And, his explanation was that which I just gave.
And so, maybe the American Staffordshire Terrier (a pure pit bull's actual breed name) Breeders Association (or whatever they call themselves) could aggressively persue a similar course, thus, saving the breed as opposed to eliminating the breed.
Problem is though (no doubt) is that the "back yard breeders" who fight the dogs for betting, would continue to breed aggresiveness into the non AKC member dogs..
Well, if you want me to call you names then I have to go back in and adjust my posts.
Instead of saying this:
"So let me rephrase this, people, the ones responsible for hurting and fighting animals, are horrible. Of which, CLEARLY ductape is not one of them....."
I would have to say this
So let me rephrase this, people, the ones responsible for hurting and fighting animals, are horrible."
And it is just too much a bother.
Clearly you are looking for a fight and I have not offered you one but you continue to try.
I do think it was clear to the casual observer. But to someone who maybe had a bad day and wants to start a ruckus, I guess it can appear as any antagonistic thing you want to whip it into. Knock yourself out making a BIG deal out of nothing. You are a genius. Feel better now?
I found your offense to be contrived from your post declaring how offended you were when I said people are horrible. Surely, anyone reading in context knew what I was saying. Your rebuttal was to bring up a poor deceased child, as if somehow, my post about horrible dog fighting added to that offending horror because I said “people are horrible”. It was so convoluted. First, you say it is not the dogs fault it is the breeders – which are people. Then, you say it is not the people’s fault it is the animals (para phrased)
I found your post on breeders to be both informative and a good post. But your next one was well -- shocking. Not your ideas but your offense
Had the thread been about do we love our animals more than we care about people? and that was an example, surely I would have been in agreement with you, that a child's death needed more news coverage and was more horrific than anything else. But the context in which I wrote seemed pretty clear. And it seemed you wanted to go off on a tangent -- which is also okay. But you began by saying how my comment offended YOU. Which was really stretching my statement to make it into an offense.
So, either you were in a bad mood, somehow lost in the simplistic nature of my post, or looking for a fight. I have read your posts and you seem to be an intelligent fellow, so perhaps my simple expressions were just to embryonic for you and you saw something that was not intended.
I did thank Johnny and said I though it was clear to even the casual observer. Because your response was shocking to me.
And you extrapolated that to mean I was calling you stupid. When I was saying I thought my comment was pretty clear in its context. (Because I am shocked you could squeeze out some personal offense by reading it)
But it still seems you wish to fight.
It is like talking to someone all keyed up before the big game just ready to pounce... Or a hungry lion. Perhaps, you do not mean to come off that way either. But to me you are. Somehow, a disscussion it seemed everyone was having became a personal offense to you -- I am still wondering how you got there....
My input. To repeat we had two Pit Bulls and the boy started to show signs of getting mean so we gave him to someone that lived in the sticks outside Tampa Bay and he lived happily every after because he had acreage to run and it apparently tamed him from being like a caged creature which we think would have happened had we tried to turn him into a pet. His sister on the other hand was the most peaceful sweet animal I've ever had and I've had dogs my whole life. I could go on and on about her but I won't.
I worked with a woman that had a dog save her life because she was trapped inside a building for 5 days after an earthquake and the only reason she was saved was because a dog heard her cries and was able to communicate to his owner who pursued once again an area of the building that they had determined was clear. This woman was so grateful to this dog that she became obsessive about animals and in fact told me face to face one day that if a dog and a child were drowning she would save the dog. I told her that was unhealthy thinking but I could understand her due to the trauma of being buried alive (she survived by cutting her arms with a pairing knife she just happen to be holding when the quake came and sucking her blood for nourishment) and I couldn't fault her for her devotion to animals but it was still not normal and healthy in response. She didn't care for my words but she remained a friend of a sort through out the job we were on because deep inside I think she knew I was right.
I haven't seen Dot as I did this woman. The context of the thread was the abuse of animals by humans and I hadn't read into it as Dot's preference to animals over people.
Also we never know the comfort an animal can bring to us unlike a human. Because they have no ulterior motives and their memory span is incredibly short when it comes to their masters of whom they love. Discipline them one minute and the next they lick and adore you. Not so with people.
I've found that animal rights can be an explosive issue. A friend of mine was yelled and cursed at in public by a complete stranger. Her crime? Her shirt had "Vegetarian" written on it. I can't count how many people I've made angry by the fact that I don't believe animals were meant to be used for human profit.
I love animals as much as people. I care about people as much as animals. I don't think anyone should have to suffer needlessly.
I didn't think Dot was offensive. I don't think my point of view is offensive, either. I don't understand where the anger is coming from.
I love to eat meat and have no guilt regarding it at all.
I also respect someone that choses not to.
I think certain animals were given to us by God for substances.
Some would call me an animal.
I think some of this anger comes from personal believes perhaps. Mixed in with the fact some like myself feel it is possible to worship the creation over the creator.
And so Dot, concerning all that.....Fuggeddaboudit.
This is a nice thread, the subject that is. and I think that selective breeding is the key. However, because the pit bull is so incredibly strong and such an excellent fighting machine, there will always be those back yard breeders screwing with the breed.
The breed that my wife and I are interested in is the American Bulldog. They are bigger than the pit bull, look similar, but do not have a bad reputationlike pit bulls and Rotwiellers. I think that "Petey" in the Little Rascals was an American Bulldog..
I'm getting into this late. My oldest son moved back home and brought back with him a part pit part chow dog. The dog has seen me since he was a pup.
This dog will cower around other dogs. People he will either love or hate. If he decides he does not like you you will not come into the yard.
Two years ago my two younger sons brought him out to the front yard because they were playing basketball. Everything was fine until another dog came in the yard. Bleu cowered and the other dog(which was twice his size) nipped him. I could not find any wound on him. The other dog had to be put down from the damage. My youngest son got 5 stitches from trying and stopping the fight.
Pits are a dangerous bred because they are always just a hair from losing control.
I can go out and beat the dog and he just thinks I'm playing. I have seen him try and tear through the fence to get to some people.
The breed that my wife and I are interested in is the American Bulldog. They are bigger than the pit bull, look similar, but do not have a bad reputationlike pit bulls and Rotwiellers.
ahh.. Lingo! ...now you're talking! ...the AMERICAN Bulldog is near and dear to my heart, we have one and she's a gem! (spoiled rotten, but a gem)... she'll be 7 in April, we've had her for a little over a year, the lady who had her before us bred her for 3 litters (her pups went for $1500 apiece) and then was looking for a home for her "retirement"... she gave her to us for free w/papers after she was spayed, we found her on petfinder.com, she's full of love and friendly to all that we're friendly to... she has this inate sense in that she can tell when we don't know the person at the door or don't want to be bothered by the person at the door and will stand there fiercely growling/barking and all they want to do is leave! :) (I should add that, if we welcome the unkown person she senses that as well and welcomes them with tail wagging and licks)
She's everything you'd want in a dog and very loyal, they bond very closely with the family and especially the one person that spends the most time with them... read up on them a little and you'll find that other owners feel the same way about them... and that their owners consider them "real, pure" bulldogs, not like those crossbred English Bulldogs with all of their health problems! ...
her name is Dixie Chick (see how she's got that loveseat in submission!):
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ChattyKathy
Oh my.
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Dot Matrix
SOME people are horrible
I don't know what they called you, or if you even had a name.
I only know they used you in their sick and deadly game. ...
Read poem here
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...l%3Den%26sa%3DG
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Ductape
I have never fought cocks, nor were my Pits allowed to attack another animal. Now bulls are another story, yet that fighting always was survival. But I resent you putting all people in the same category, we are all not the problem and we are not horrible. Animals by nature are more cruel than humans ever thought of being and the only thing that has made them sweet is being domesticated by humans.
Its like the time I saw where some horses were neglected and rescued from starvation at the same time a little 6 year old girl was taken from her bed in the night, raped, beaten to death and tossed in the garbage. Guess who got more jail time and bigger fines? Guess what story stayed in the front page the longest?
It is like people making such a big deal out of a dog being out in the rain, chances are the same people drive right by homeless left out in the rain. My gawd, whole herds of wild life stand in the open in sub-zero weather and survive or die.
It makes me wonder where some peoples' true priorities are when they put animals above humans
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Galen
I would only comment in that saying that "animals by nature are more cruel than humans ever thought of being", I think that perhaps you are forgetting 'female humans'.
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coolchef
ducttape
animals are more crule than people?
did you type that right?
animals are not crule unless breed to be
if you mean the carnivores hell the jus kill to eat
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Dot Matrix
Sorry, okay many humans besides ductape are horrible. I did not say all humans were horrible but merely showing the damaged dogs and they got that way because humans fought them.
You cannot be serious that that offends you, can you? Sorry you were so offended because people fight their dogs therefore I said people are horrible. I am also a "people" and I do not fight animals either.
Surely as a reasonable person you can see the context of what I was saying and truly not take it as a personal attack because you are human.
But I am not going down that road.
Sorry that a reference to "people" (not all people) but people (a very broad term and if the shoe fits then those people should wear it) seems to have rubbed you the wrong way.
So let me rephrase this, people, the ones responsible for hurting and fighting animals, are horrible. Of which, CLEARLY ductape is not one of them.....
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Dot Matrix
Please feel free to start a different thread on helping children who are being used, abused or made to fight one another.
Surely a 6 year old in the garbage is much greater a loss. Clearly, that is not the tone of this thread, of myself, or any other poster.
But to throw a child in the garbage is horrid. Just terrible. To starve horses is also terrible. But I betcha a PERSON threw the child in the garbage and I bet the horses were starved by a person....
So again, People, not all and clearly not you, are horrible.
God Bless you. I have added the word SOME, I hope that helps.
BTW, though not pertenant to the thread, I cooked dinner for the homeless, I gave money to the homeless and I was involved in helping. But then that is not what this thread is about.... But that is a great topic, go ahead and start your thread, I would love to post on it.
And another good topic Iidea you have is
What is with rescue groups seeming to care more about animals than people.
Good topic
It's just not this topic on this thread. But very interesting, I will look for it, thanks
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Dot Matrix
Thanks Cool cheif
Galen -
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Dot Matrix
One of our Counties has a ban on Pit Bulls. But each day we have people from that community bring in their Pits.....
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Ductape
And Cool, I typed it right; but that isn't what this thread is about <_<
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J0nny Ling0
Come on Duc, I think your points are valid, but really, I do think that Dot was only referring to those who pit the dogs against each other in order to gamble and get their jollies. And, I too have always thought of those people as horrible.
And so Ductape, I think you are so right when you mentioned the breeding factor. I remember awhile back when there was a terrible malady in St Bernards. It was proven that the track that breeders were going down (I can't remember which trait was being sought in the big beautiful beasties) ended up bringing on literal brain damage to the St. Bernard in large numbers, and the dogs had attacked their masters in many situations.
And so, after this had occurred and was medically proven, the St Bernard breeders began to correct the problem by pairing breeding pairs with eachother that were very docile in nature, and prone to being kind and happy. The end result was that now we have St Bernards that are almost goofy and "sloppily lovey dovey". Very docile they are nowadays, according to a breeder with whom I spoke. I was given this explanation when I was playing with his gentle giant and exclaimed at how friendly and kind his monster dog was. And, his explanation was that which I just gave.
And so, maybe the American Staffordshire Terrier (a pure pit bull's actual breed name) Breeders Association (or whatever they call themselves) could aggressively persue a similar course, thus, saving the breed as opposed to eliminating the breed.
Problem is though (no doubt) is that the "back yard breeders" who fight the dogs for betting, would continue to breed aggresiveness into the non AKC member dogs..
But that might be a start...
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Dot Matrix
Thanks Johnny, I think it was obvious to even the casual observer what I meant.
Kisses....
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Ductape
And why not just come out and call me stupid? It is obvious why I posted what I did,
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Dot Matrix
"And why not just come out and call me stupid?"
Well, if you want me to call you names then I have to go back in and adjust my posts.
Instead of saying this:
"So let me rephrase this, people, the ones responsible for hurting and fighting animals, are horrible. Of which, CLEARLY ductape is not one of them....."
I would have to say this
So let me rephrase this, people, the ones responsible for hurting and fighting animals, are horrible."
And it is just too much a bother.
Clearly you are looking for a fight and I have not offered you one but you continue to try.
I do think it was clear to the casual observer. But to someone who maybe had a bad day and wants to start a ruckus, I guess it can appear as any antagonistic thing you want to whip it into. Knock yourself out making a BIG deal out of nothing. You are a genius. Feel better now?
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Ductape
you couldn't be more wrong, nor more offensive.
Control your thread and discussion and I am out of here.
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Dot Matrix
I found your offense to be contrived from your post declaring how offended you were when I said people are horrible. Surely, anyone reading in context knew what I was saying. Your rebuttal was to bring up a poor deceased child, as if somehow, my post about horrible dog fighting added to that offending horror because I said “people are horrible”. It was so convoluted. First, you say it is not the dogs fault it is the breeders – which are people. Then, you say it is not the people’s fault it is the animals (para phrased)
I found your post on breeders to be both informative and a good post. But your next one was well -- shocking. Not your ideas but your offense
Had the thread been about do we love our animals more than we care about people? and that was an example, surely I would have been in agreement with you, that a child's death needed more news coverage and was more horrific than anything else. But the context in which I wrote seemed pretty clear. And it seemed you wanted to go off on a tangent -- which is also okay. But you began by saying how my comment offended YOU. Which was really stretching my statement to make it into an offense.
So, either you were in a bad mood, somehow lost in the simplistic nature of my post, or looking for a fight. I have read your posts and you seem to be an intelligent fellow, so perhaps my simple expressions were just to embryonic for you and you saw something that was not intended.
I did thank Johnny and said I though it was clear to even the casual observer. Because your response was shocking to me.
And you extrapolated that to mean I was calling you stupid. When I was saying I thought my comment was pretty clear in its context. (Because I am shocked you could squeeze out some personal offense by reading it)
But it still seems you wish to fight.
It is like talking to someone all keyed up before the big game just ready to pounce... Or a hungry lion. Perhaps, you do not mean to come off that way either. But to me you are. Somehow, a disscussion it seemed everyone was having became a personal offense to you -- I am still wondering how you got there....
So
zing zing
You win.
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Dot Matrix
You win, you win
I am an offensive piece of crap...
Okay?
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ChattyKathy
My input. To repeat we had two Pit Bulls and the boy started to show signs of getting mean so we gave him to someone that lived in the sticks outside Tampa Bay and he lived happily every after because he had acreage to run and it apparently tamed him from being like a caged creature which we think would have happened had we tried to turn him into a pet. His sister on the other hand was the most peaceful sweet animal I've ever had and I've had dogs my whole life. I could go on and on about her but I won't.
I worked with a woman that had a dog save her life because she was trapped inside a building for 5 days after an earthquake and the only reason she was saved was because a dog heard her cries and was able to communicate to his owner who pursued once again an area of the building that they had determined was clear. This woman was so grateful to this dog that she became obsessive about animals and in fact told me face to face one day that if a dog and a child were drowning she would save the dog. I told her that was unhealthy thinking but I could understand her due to the trauma of being buried alive (she survived by cutting her arms with a pairing knife she just happen to be holding when the quake came and sucking her blood for nourishment) and I couldn't fault her for her devotion to animals but it was still not normal and healthy in response. She didn't care for my words but she remained a friend of a sort through out the job we were on because deep inside I think she knew I was right.
I haven't seen Dot as I did this woman. The context of the thread was the abuse of animals by humans and I hadn't read into it as Dot's preference to animals over people.
Also we never know the comfort an animal can bring to us unlike a human. Because they have no ulterior motives and their memory span is incredibly short when it comes to their masters of whom they love. Discipline them one minute and the next they lick and adore you. Not so with people.
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VeganXTC
I've found that animal rights can be an explosive issue. A friend of mine was yelled and cursed at in public by a complete stranger. Her crime? Her shirt had "Vegetarian" written on it. I can't count how many people I've made angry by the fact that I don't believe animals were meant to be used for human profit.
I love animals as much as people. I care about people as much as animals. I don't think anyone should have to suffer needlessly.
I didn't think Dot was offensive. I don't think my point of view is offensive, either. I don't understand where the anger is coming from.
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ChattyKathy
I love to eat meat and have no guilt regarding it at all.
I also respect someone that choses not to.
I think certain animals were given to us by God for substances.
Some would call me an animal.
I think some of this anger comes from personal believes perhaps. Mixed in with the fact some like myself feel it is possible to worship the creation over the creator.
Just my thoughts.
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Galen
Wow,
What a porcupine.
Smoking what?
No, really I have never thought of you as 'offensive' in any manner.
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J0nny Ling0
And so Dot, concerning all that.....Fuggeddaboudit.
This is a nice thread, the subject that is. and I think that selective breeding is the key. However, because the pit bull is so incredibly strong and such an excellent fighting machine, there will always be those back yard breeders screwing with the breed.
The breed that my wife and I are interested in is the American Bulldog. They are bigger than the pit bull, look similar, but do not have a bad reputationlike pit bulls and Rotwiellers. I think that "Petey" in the Little Rascals was an American Bulldog..
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ex70sHouston
I'm getting into this late. My oldest son moved back home and brought back with him a part pit part chow dog. The dog has seen me since he was a pup.
This dog will cower around other dogs. People he will either love or hate. If he decides he does not like you you will not come into the yard.
Two years ago my two younger sons brought him out to the front yard because they were playing basketball. Everything was fine until another dog came in the yard. Bleu cowered and the other dog(which was twice his size) nipped him. I could not find any wound on him. The other dog had to be put down from the damage. My youngest son got 5 stitches from trying and stopping the fight.
Pits are a dangerous bred because they are always just a hair from losing control.
I can go out and beat the dog and he just thinks I'm playing. I have seen him try and tear through the fence to get to some people.
I wish the dog was gone.
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Tom Strange
ahh.. Lingo! ...now you're talking! ...the AMERICAN Bulldog is near and dear to my heart, we have one and she's a gem! (spoiled rotten, but a gem)... she'll be 7 in April, we've had her for a little over a year, the lady who had her before us bred her for 3 litters (her pups went for $1500 apiece) and then was looking for a home for her "retirement"... she gave her to us for free w/papers after she was spayed, we found her on petfinder.com, she's full of love and friendly to all that we're friendly to... she has this inate sense in that she can tell when we don't know the person at the door or don't want to be bothered by the person at the door and will stand there fiercely growling/barking and all they want to do is leave! :) (I should add that, if we welcome the unkown person she senses that as well and welcomes them with tail wagging and licks)
She's everything you'd want in a dog and very loyal, they bond very closely with the family and especially the one person that spends the most time with them... read up on them a little and you'll find that other owners feel the same way about them... and that their owners consider them "real, pure" bulldogs, not like those crossbred English Bulldogs with all of their health problems!
...
her name is Dixie Chick (see how she's got that loveseat in submission!):
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