I don't know.. it may be a problem isolated to your state or district.
I think a math teacher that can't figure out a logarithm doesn't belong in a math class.
When my kids were in high school, and that was within the last five years, the math teacher made it fun and interesting, but they LEARNED. I had a few conversations with him, and put a few questions forward to see how competent he was (I do have a strong math background). He passed MY test with flying colors.. and he was about 25 or so years old.
I think a more stringent interview process may filter out candidates that lack necessary skills..
In our state, you have to declare a major with an education degree, whether it's math, or chemistry, or whatever..
To get a degree in mathmatics at the university I'm going to, you have to pass a competency examination at the end. And I imagine the questions aren't "how many fingers am I holding up"
I was planning to stay on one thread at a time, but I couldn't pass this up!!
The problem seems to be the method in which teacher success is evaluated. I am a middle school math teacher in Texas and I would say the problems are much worse here than in the NorthEast. I taught HS for 5 years but moved to MS this year after getting fed up with what was sent up to me in the HS.
When a teacher tries to use "big words" like horizontal and vertical the students object and stop wanting to work hard. "Why do you use such big words mister?" They would prefer me to use non-mathematical words like "straight" or "flat". In truth, I use both so that they can connect, but I am careful to point out to them that "all lines are straight" and "flat" is an ambiguous term. But then they get even more confused. "What does 'ambiguous' mean?"
More and more I am coming to the conclusion that the problem with math is not math, but english. The kids don't know how to communicate, orally or by writing.
and yet state tests all use the "big" words. Then the math teacher is held accountable for the failings of the english and reading teachers. UNLESS, that math teacher, like me, takes the time to use big words in the class every day. Then, the students think that the teacher "doesn't know how to teach"!
The other fundamental problem is the assumption that ALL students can learn at the same pace with the same circumstances. Studies have shown that 33% of students cannot mentally grasp Algebra until they are 15. Yet, No Child Left Behind mandates that all students take algebra by the time they are in ninth grade (age 14). This sets students up for failure. If we waited one more year, they would be ready. Why is this? one reason: Lawmakers are arrogant and ignore the research so that they can enact laws that make them feel good and get them re-elected.
I'll buy off on some of that sonof... but what happens when you have to teach a college kid that there is no such thing as "flat' in non Euclidean space? If I have to use flat or level or whatever how in the world can I teach tensors? I'm not faulting the teachers - but yes I am faulting the system big time.
I whole heartedly concur Chas... and I use MAthUSee for both my kids at home on top of what silliness they have to learn at school. I just finished a Bacelors in Education ---shocking what they do not teach teachers to teach in Math and Reading.
I will augment my kids Math through their entire school career until college. My daughter has done the 4th grade and now 5th grade and son is doing a fill in the gaps for Pre-Algebra...
www.mathusee.com
Its ridiculous---there is no homework---no concept of memorizing---I can't imagine how my son would do in High School with out extra studying
I'm not a Math teacher, but I have seen the same trend in many subjects. For some reason there seems to be a mad dash to develop higher thinking skills at the expense of the more basic skill that are foundational. I can say that in my field alone - the visual arts - that there is little being done to really teach mastery. I have lamented what I see in English and Writing because so many times the writing is poor but because all the right points were made the student gets a good grade.
I'm happy to say that the principal at our elementary school was a Math teacher, so she has insisted on the basics being mastered - there are no calculators in our school. In fact, I don't think my older child used a calculator in class until the 8th grade. I wasn't happy about that - but I don't know how to change it.
I don't think this problem is strictly related to Math, and I think there has been a dumbing down of American education. You go to McDonald's, and there are PICTURES of the items on the register.
Seems to me, either through apathy or conspiracy, what this country wants is mostly functional illiterates. The reason for this is, that way, they can more easily influence the masses, since they don't have the skills to see through their BS.
I'm not a Math teacher, but I have seen the same trend in many subjects. For some reason there seems to be a mad dash to develop higher thinking skills at the expense of the more basic skill that are foundational. I can say that in my field alone - the visual arts - that there is little being done to really teach mastery. I have lamented what I see in English and Writing because so many times the writing is poor but because all the right points were made the student gets a good grade.
I'm happy to say that the principal at our elementary school was a Math teacher, so she has insisted on the basics being mastered - there are no calculators in our school. In fact, I don't think my older child used a calculator in class until the 8th grade. I wasn't happy about that - but I don't know how to change it.
I may be wrong, but I thought mathematics education was a key to developing higher thinking skills...
I'm way past being involved in my education and my stepson graduated from college last May with a degree in Optical Engineering. He was always great in Math... he could multiply in his head before kindergarten. In fifth grade, he participated in individual and team Math competitions... and he did very well. But I understand that he'd be considered an elite student in Math.
IMO the emphasis on measuring teacher performance (and therefore student perfomance)... aka No Child Left Behind (Bush's Orwellian oxymoron) is probably central to this dumbing down. I was always good at Math related subjects... but hit a wall when I first took Calculus. I had to pass a calc class to get my accounting degree, but I probably deserved a D when it was all said and done.
IMO the US overall is getting shortchanged by the diminished educational achievement in Math.
Krista, I appreciate your sharing you husband's letter. Very well stated.
Hubby got a response from the NMAP - they asked if they could quote his letter at some time (there were no specifics about what parts of the letter or anything...) He responded that they could but asked if they could not disclose his name because he didn't want any fallout at work for it. (Sad, eh?) Nonetheless, he was tickled pink to hear back from them!
I also appreciate your husband's stand. Whereas it is not essential that everyone be able to grasp non-Euclidian geometry or multi-variable calculus, a comprehension of mathematical rigor is essential to the development of logical thinking. When I taught college chemistry twenty-five years ago, the biggest problem I saw was the inability of students to solve problems, not necessarily because they didn't understand logarithms or vectors (though this contributed to the problem), but more because they couldn't logically attack a problem. Another semester of geometric proofs in high school would have helped, I bet.
If I'm not mistaken, it was a popular TV talk show host(ess) who declared a few years ago that students shouldn't have to learn arithmetic because cheap calculators are available. What good is a calculator if one doesn't understand the fundamental concepts of mathematics? If one doesn't understand addition, why would he even know to hit the "+" button (unless, of course, the only question he ever gets is of the form "How much is 213 + 599?")? How would he handle "If you have 213 jelly beans, and I give you 599, how many would you have?"
Of course, grammatical rigor has been abandoned, as well; don't get me started on that!
I may be wrong, but I thought mathematics education was a key to developing higher thinking skills...
I'm way past being involved in my education and my stepson graduated from college last May with a degree in Optical Engineering. He was always great in Math... he could multiply in his head before kindergarten. In fifth grade, he participated in individual and team Math competitions... and he did very well. But I understand that he'd be considered an elite student in Math.
IMO the emphasis on measuring teacher performance (and therefore student perfomance)... aka No Child Left Behind (Bush's Orwellian oxymoron) is probably central to this dumbing down. I was always good at Math related subjects... but hit a wall when I first took Calculus. I had to pass a calc class to get my accounting degree, but I probably deserved a D when it was all said and done.
IMO the US overall is getting shortchanged by the diminished educational achievement in Math.
Krista, I appreciate your sharing you husband's letter. Very well stated.
Rocky I wasn't implying that Math was not a higher thinking skill - but let's face it, there is addition and subtraction (my Math teacher would argue that its really all addition but that's for another time,) and then there's calculus and beyond. Addition and subtraction are basic skills. I was stating that I saw the same trend in other subjects as well. Too many times I've seen parents just want results instead of looking at the process overall.
My youngest son, an 8th grader at the time, went to mathcounts nationals last spring. (Can you guess his name, Rummy?) When I was looking over the roster of competitors, I noticed there were several other states, besides ours, where the four winners all came from one school in one town. It made me think that maybe the excellent math teachers and programs are spotty. Give the kids credit (I sure did!) but I have the feeling there are plenty of students with great potential around that dont have the benefit of the teachers and programs who can best help their potential to be realized. A lot of them are no doubt in rural areas, of which we have plenty around.
Oh, wne we went to the school board meeting that recognized the team, their teacher/coach made a very plain point of thanking the board for providing the proper curriculum and program. Whether they or some of their predecessors did it didn't matter; the point was made.
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Ham
I don't know.. it may be a problem isolated to your state or district.
I think a math teacher that can't figure out a logarithm doesn't belong in a math class.
When my kids were in high school, and that was within the last five years, the math teacher made it fun and interesting, but they LEARNED. I had a few conversations with him, and put a few questions forward to see how competent he was (I do have a strong math background). He passed MY test with flying colors.. and he was about 25 or so years old.
Same for the middle school teacher.
Maybe my district was the exception.
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Ham
I think a more stringent interview process may filter out candidates that lack necessary skills..
In our state, you have to declare a major with an education degree, whether it's math, or chemistry, or whatever..
To get a degree in mathmatics at the university I'm going to, you have to pass a competency examination at the end. And I imagine the questions aren't "how many fingers am I holding up"
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RumRunner
I am an applied mathematician deeply involved with space programs. I couldnt agree with the letter more.
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excathedra
my sister's husband has his PhD in the philosophy of mathematics from princeton. i am going to forward this to him since i have no clue.....
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sonofarthur
I was planning to stay on one thread at a time, but I couldn't pass this up!!
The problem seems to be the method in which teacher success is evaluated. I am a middle school math teacher in Texas and I would say the problems are much worse here than in the NorthEast. I taught HS for 5 years but moved to MS this year after getting fed up with what was sent up to me in the HS.
When a teacher tries to use "big words" like horizontal and vertical the students object and stop wanting to work hard. "Why do you use such big words mister?" They would prefer me to use non-mathematical words like "straight" or "flat". In truth, I use both so that they can connect, but I am careful to point out to them that "all lines are straight" and "flat" is an ambiguous term. But then they get even more confused. "What does 'ambiguous' mean?"
More and more I am coming to the conclusion that the problem with math is not math, but english. The kids don't know how to communicate, orally or by writing.
and yet state tests all use the "big" words. Then the math teacher is held accountable for the failings of the english and reading teachers. UNLESS, that math teacher, like me, takes the time to use big words in the class every day. Then, the students think that the teacher "doesn't know how to teach"!
The other fundamental problem is the assumption that ALL students can learn at the same pace with the same circumstances. Studies have shown that 33% of students cannot mentally grasp Algebra until they are 15. Yet, No Child Left Behind mandates that all students take algebra by the time they are in ninth grade (age 14). This sets students up for failure. If we waited one more year, they would be ready. Why is this? one reason: Lawmakers are arrogant and ignore the research so that they can enact laws that make them feel good and get them re-elected.
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RumRunner
I'll buy off on some of that sonof... but what happens when you have to teach a college kid that there is no such thing as "flat' in non Euclidean space? If I have to use flat or level or whatever how in the world can I teach tensors? I'm not faulting the teachers - but yes I am faulting the system big time.
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washingtonweather
I whole heartedly concur Chas... and I use MAthUSee for both my kids at home on top of what silliness they have to learn at school. I just finished a Bacelors in Education ---shocking what they do not teach teachers to teach in Math and Reading.
I will augment my kids Math through their entire school career until college. My daughter has done the 4th grade and now 5th grade and son is doing a fill in the gaps for Pre-Algebra...
www.mathusee.com
Its ridiculous---there is no homework---no concept of memorizing---I can't imagine how my son would do in High School with out extra studying
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doojable
I'm not a Math teacher, but I have seen the same trend in many subjects. For some reason there seems to be a mad dash to develop higher thinking skills at the expense of the more basic skill that are foundational. I can say that in my field alone - the visual arts - that there is little being done to really teach mastery. I have lamented what I see in English and Writing because so many times the writing is poor but because all the right points were made the student gets a good grade.
I'm happy to say that the principal at our elementary school was a Math teacher, so she has insisted on the basics being mastered - there are no calculators in our school. In fact, I don't think my older child used a calculator in class until the 8th grade. I wasn't happy about that - but I don't know how to change it.
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Sushi
I don't think this problem is strictly related to Math, and I think there has been a dumbing down of American education. You go to McDonald's, and there are PICTURES of the items on the register.
Seems to me, either through apathy or conspiracy, what this country wants is mostly functional illiterates. The reason for this is, that way, they can more easily influence the masses, since they don't have the skills to see through their BS.
(now getting off the soapbox)
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Rocky
I may be wrong, but I thought mathematics education was a key to developing higher thinking skills...
I'm way past being involved in my education and my stepson graduated from college last May with a degree in Optical Engineering. He was always great in Math... he could multiply in his head before kindergarten. In fifth grade, he participated in individual and team Math competitions... and he did very well. But I understand that he'd be considered an elite student in Math.
IMO the emphasis on measuring teacher performance (and therefore student perfomance)... aka No Child Left Behind (Bush's Orwellian oxymoron) is probably central to this dumbing down. I was always good at Math related subjects... but hit a wall when I first took Calculus. I had to pass a calc class to get my accounting degree, but I probably deserved a D when it was all said and done.
IMO the US overall is getting shortchanged by the diminished educational achievement in Math.
Krista, I appreciate your sharing you husband's letter. Very well stated.
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ChasUFarley
UPDATE:
Hubby got a response from the NMAP - they asked if they could quote his letter at some time (there were no specifics about what parts of the letter or anything...) He responded that they could but asked if they could not disclose his name because he didn't want any fallout at work for it. (Sad, eh?) Nonetheless, he was tickled pink to hear back from them!
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GeorgeStGeorge
Chas,
I also appreciate your husband's stand. Whereas it is not essential that everyone be able to grasp non-Euclidian geometry or multi-variable calculus, a comprehension of mathematical rigor is essential to the development of logical thinking. When I taught college chemistry twenty-five years ago, the biggest problem I saw was the inability of students to solve problems, not necessarily because they didn't understand logarithms or vectors (though this contributed to the problem), but more because they couldn't logically attack a problem. Another semester of geometric proofs in high school would have helped, I bet.
If I'm not mistaken, it was a popular TV talk show host(ess) who declared a few years ago that students shouldn't have to learn arithmetic because cheap calculators are available. What good is a calculator if one doesn't understand the fundamental concepts of mathematics? If one doesn't understand addition, why would he even know to hit the "+" button (unless, of course, the only question he ever gets is of the form "How much is 213 + 599?")? How would he handle "If you have 213 jelly beans, and I give you 599, how many would you have?"
Of course, grammatical rigor has been abandoned, as well; don't get me started on that!
George
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doojable
Rocky I wasn't implying that Math was not a higher thinking skill - but let's face it, there is addition and subtraction (my Math teacher would argue that its really all addition but that's for another time,) and then there's calculus and beyond. Addition and subtraction are basic skills. I was stating that I saw the same trend in other subjects as well. Too many times I've seen parents just want results instead of looking at the process overall.
Hope I made things clearer.
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Lifted Up
My youngest son, an 8th grader at the time, went to mathcounts nationals last spring. (Can you guess his name, Rummy?) When I was looking over the roster of competitors, I noticed there were several other states, besides ours, where the four winners all came from one school in one town. It made me think that maybe the excellent math teachers and programs are spotty. Give the kids credit (I sure did!) but I have the feeling there are plenty of students with great potential around that dont have the benefit of the teachers and programs who can best help their potential to be realized. A lot of them are no doubt in rural areas, of which we have plenty around.
Oh, wne we went to the school board meeting that recognized the team, their teacher/coach made a very plain point of thanking the board for providing the proper curriculum and program. Whether they or some of their predecessors did it didn't matter; the point was made.
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