Wanderer, Welcome to the cafe!!! First round's on me.
I'm sorry you went to all that trouble only to get shot down. It sounds like what happens with so many people who get involved with TWI and the offshoots, buy what they're selling hook line & sinker and only live for "the ministry" - they become socially retarded. They turn their lives over to these people and there's so much censoring of our thoughts, beliefs and time that people really don't continue to develop and they quit thinking for themselves. They're almost catatonic in the social sense. That's a great idea for a thread.....
Mark, you sound like me in that you maybe never really had any "true" or "good" friends in TWI to begin with. There are very, very few people I knew while involved with TWI whom I would give one whit about contacting. I'd venture to say that nearly everyone I knew in TWI was only interested in my so-called "friendship" as long as I was towing the company line. They weren't real friends in the first place, so why would I want to try to be friends with them now?
BUT, I do think that there are a lot of people who got involved at such a young age or who, because of the lack of legalism early on, really did connect and make true, deep, caring friendships. And some who thought they did. And some who did, but the other parties became so sold out to TWI that they totally became a different person.
I have hesitated to post about my recent experiences with someone who is still in, in fear that they may come or lurk here. Also, I know if any one who is planning on leaving, time and God will make a way out.
My recent conversation, started with a CHristmas ecard, in which, I replied. Then came a New Year's ecard, inviting me to meet this person face to face this year. My alarms went off so quietly, only because, this ecard came from my former fiance, who is still active in the Way.They broke us up because I was put on probation...hence,6 yrs ago.
I called him within 3 days of the email, because I thought he may of left and thought this may be the time for closure. He told me that his nest will be empty in a year and a half, and was entertaining the thought of me being in it,if possible. I kept myself in a balanced, well lit up state, so I could meet the need that was heading toward me. It was quit friendly, but buried within me, was GSC..I mean all the tangible evidence of the Way abuse presented here towards people and thier walk with God and the backstage sexual missuse of hearts of people who gave of themselves only to be abused...I myself included..
He made a statement, about LCM and the cleaning up days and those days where over ...he acted like it was nothing..i could tell, he wasnt ready to encounter the discussion..Man o man...inside, I felt a burning..
WE have talked several times, but the way speak is so distracting, I know soon I will have to take this further with him..There is no intimacy in the language of wayspeak, and it lacks true character, which I have had to work so hard at..I mean finding myself again....after hours and hours, days upon days of getting clear on so many simple issues..driving every part of condemnation back where it needs to be..I cannot afford to emblish wayworld...
He said, the Way has changed..Maybe so, it will never be a place where I can be again..but, I do hope i our concerted efforts, we can break thru the crap and get to business and refresh a good friendship.being the patient, as possible, and not resorting to my buried hurt that did surface lately,....I will be there for him, if he ever needs a friend.
He made a statement, about LCM and the cleaning up days and those days where over ...he acted like it was nothing..i could tell, he wasnt ready to encounter the discussion..Man o man...inside, I felt a burning..
for people still inside, the LCM years have to be nothing. if they acknowledge that he wouldn't have been ousted and it would have been business as usual under his reign of terror for the rest of his life if a few people hadn't been brave enough to bring lawsuits against him, they'd have to acknowledge that twi cares nothing for its people. problem is, they still think it's zion because they have to, that they're God's chosen remnant. the cleaning up IS over, and it only consisted of subtle rewriting of history so the fact that LCM existed can be ignored, but inside he is not held responsible for being an adulterer. if his existance is ever acknowledged, the opinion is that some jealous ex-leadership ruined his ministry with lies. the classes have been changed, but LCM's teachings have NOT been recanted and they are very much at the core of how people conduct the "ministry".
Mark, you sound like me in that you maybe never really had any "true" or "good" friends in TWI to begin with. There are very, very few people I knew while involved with TWI whom I would give one whit about contacting. I'd venture to say that nearly everyone I knew in TWI was only interested in my so-called "friendship" as long as I was towing the company line. They weren't real friends in the first place, so why would I want to try to be friends with them now?
BUT, I do think that there are a lot of people who got involved at such a young age or who, because of the lack of legalism early on, really did connect and make true, deep, caring friendships. And some who thought they did. And some who did, but the other parties became so sold out to TWI that they totally became a different person.
Actually, in one case, I encountered somebody who was a very close friend.
But 15 years had passed. I went back to the Church. He still stuck with his TWI philosophy (even though he'd been M&A'd back during LCM's initial purge of the Corps and had gone through a couple of the offshoots...)
I had spent time in multiple different countries. Done multiple different things. Been deployed many times. Finished my college. Retired from the service and had a good job. Got married with children. Had a house and a mortgage. Yada yada yada.
He got divorced. Rented rooms from other people. Still did the typical TWI-like odd jobs for a living. Never went back to school.
See, when I was in TWI, young and single, I thought that this life he had was really great. No major strings. Ready to move whereever and whenever needed (for Gawd, ya know). That's great...and I don't see a problem with that, in of itself, to this day...if your primary job is working for God and you do what you need to keep a roof over your head and food on the table and clothes on the back, more power to you.
But in this particular case, the guy hadn't ever grown. The illusion of being in ministry for God was not there anymore...he didn't have a fellowship, didn't go out witnessing, didn't help the poor, didn't teach the ignorant, or anything else.
but he hadn't developed any...
Aimless, is what I guess I'm trying to say. It's like I grew up. He never did.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not being disparaging of the guy. I thought and still think the world of him. I really do. But the point is that he was like in limbo.
That's what I was trying to get at. There was too much separation now.
We were marked and avoided and slandered when we left.The LC told us we would lose all our friends, yup, that was so.
Only one old friend from that era has ever got in contact with us, and the conversation always ends in some type of 'the ministry is so sweet now' and some type of build up of what great believers we were and knew the Word etc...I think this person is genuine in their care and concern, but is in mourning because we are gone and lost. They want to make it right.
I really didn't feel shot down, and I think I'll call occasionaly, just to be a friend. I guess in the back of my head, I figured she'd see the light and get the hell out. Looking back, she called me during the "Passing of the old Geeser" period to see where I stood. At that time I was heavily into native american spirituality (Which I still practice, although not so intensly), and I let her know in a nice way that I wasn't interested. So I guess she bit into the LCM stuff too, and now she's hanging with
www.cbrinc.org
a splinter run by Gary Gudlin, an old way corpse guy. Now to be fair, I met some way corps folke who were nice, but I met more Bozos than loving people.
I really liked the thread about disfuctional social skills, you started. I think part of my problem with the way, was that I never went for the phony stuff. I have a strong drive to be myself (Although this has gotten me into a fix a time or two), and leadership wasn't too fond of that. I was also well trained in philosophy, making me a difficult person to argue successfuly with.
Bottom line...It's her choice, but I'll still be her friend.
for me it's rarely an issue. I was non-twi-fitting when I was in that place, and even more so, now (Catholic, trinity, non-judgmental of others, trying to keep my own self on a walk that is somewhat Christ-like is my "cause celebre".)
The ones who are in don't want to have anything to do with me, regardless of any life-long friendship they may have once offered. Oh well.
One of the reasons I use my own name is so anyone who wants to contact me, can do so, pretty effortlessly.
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Belle
Wanderer, Welcome to the cafe!!! First round's on me.
I'm sorry you went to all that trouble only to get shot down. It sounds like what happens with so many people who get involved with TWI and the offshoots, buy what they're selling hook line & sinker and only live for "the ministry" - they become socially retarded. They turn their lives over to these people and there's so much censoring of our thoughts, beliefs and time that people really don't continue to develop and they quit thinking for themselves. They're almost catatonic in the social sense. That's a great idea for a thread.....
Mark, you sound like me in that you maybe never really had any "true" or "good" friends in TWI to begin with. There are very, very few people I knew while involved with TWI whom I would give one whit about contacting. I'd venture to say that nearly everyone I knew in TWI was only interested in my so-called "friendship" as long as I was towing the company line. They weren't real friends in the first place, so why would I want to try to be friends with them now?
BUT, I do think that there are a lot of people who got involved at such a young age or who, because of the lack of legalism early on, really did connect and make true, deep, caring friendships. And some who thought they did. And some who did, but the other parties became so sold out to TWI that they totally became a different person.
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Tom Strange
I don't call them... I just come here and PM them!
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likeaneagle
I have hesitated to post about my recent experiences with someone who is still in, in fear that they may come or lurk here. Also, I know if any one who is planning on leaving, time and God will make a way out.
My recent conversation, started with a CHristmas ecard, in which, I replied. Then came a New Year's ecard, inviting me to meet this person face to face this year. My alarms went off so quietly, only because, this ecard came from my former fiance, who is still active in the Way.They broke us up because I was put on probation...hence,6 yrs ago.
I called him within 3 days of the email, because I thought he may of left and thought this may be the time for closure. He told me that his nest will be empty in a year and a half, and was entertaining the thought of me being in it,if possible. I kept myself in a balanced, well lit up state, so I could meet the need that was heading toward me. It was quit friendly, but buried within me, was GSC..I mean all the tangible evidence of the Way abuse presented here towards people and thier walk with God and the backstage sexual missuse of hearts of people who gave of themselves only to be abused...I myself included..
He made a statement, about LCM and the cleaning up days and those days where over ...he acted like it was nothing..i could tell, he wasnt ready to encounter the discussion..Man o man...inside, I felt a burning..
WE have talked several times, but the way speak is so distracting, I know soon I will have to take this further with him..There is no intimacy in the language of wayspeak, and it lacks true character, which I have had to work so hard at..I mean finding myself again....after hours and hours, days upon days of getting clear on so many simple issues..driving every part of condemnation back where it needs to be..I cannot afford to emblish wayworld...
He said, the Way has changed..Maybe so, it will never be a place where I can be again..but, I do hope i our concerted efforts, we can break thru the crap and get to business and refresh a good friendship.being the patient, as possible, and not resorting to my buried hurt that did surface lately,....I will be there for him, if he ever needs a friend.
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potato
for people still inside, the LCM years have to be nothing. if they acknowledge that he wouldn't have been ousted and it would have been business as usual under his reign of terror for the rest of his life if a few people hadn't been brave enough to bring lawsuits against him, they'd have to acknowledge that twi cares nothing for its people. problem is, they still think it's zion because they have to, that they're God's chosen remnant. the cleaning up IS over, and it only consisted of subtle rewriting of history so the fact that LCM existed can be ignored, but inside he is not held responsible for being an adulterer. if his existance is ever acknowledged, the opinion is that some jealous ex-leadership ruined his ministry with lies. the classes have been changed, but LCM's teachings have NOT been recanted and they are very much at the core of how people conduct the "ministry".
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likeaneagle
I also want to add- this person I speak of, is a good man..just mislead, like many of were.
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markomalley
Actually, in one case, I encountered somebody who was a very close friend.
But 15 years had passed. I went back to the Church. He still stuck with his TWI philosophy (even though he'd been M&A'd back during LCM's initial purge of the Corps and had gone through a couple of the offshoots...)
I had spent time in multiple different countries. Done multiple different things. Been deployed many times. Finished my college. Retired from the service and had a good job. Got married with children. Had a house and a mortgage. Yada yada yada.
He got divorced. Rented rooms from other people. Still did the typical TWI-like odd jobs for a living. Never went back to school.
See, when I was in TWI, young and single, I thought that this life he had was really great. No major strings. Ready to move whereever and whenever needed (for Gawd, ya know). That's great...and I don't see a problem with that, in of itself, to this day...if your primary job is working for God and you do what you need to keep a roof over your head and food on the table and clothes on the back, more power to you.
But in this particular case, the guy hadn't ever grown. The illusion of being in ministry for God was not there anymore...he didn't have a fellowship, didn't go out witnessing, didn't help the poor, didn't teach the ignorant, or anything else.
but he hadn't developed any...
Aimless, is what I guess I'm trying to say. It's like I grew up. He never did.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not being disparaging of the guy. I thought and still think the world of him. I really do. But the point is that he was like in limbo.
That's what I was trying to get at. There was too much separation now.
Hope that clarifies...
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Bramble
We were marked and avoided and slandered when we left.The LC told us we would lose all our friends, yup, that was so.
Only one old friend from that era has ever got in contact with us, and the conversation always ends in some type of 'the ministry is so sweet now' and some type of build up of what great believers we were and knew the Word etc...I think this person is genuine in their care and concern, but is in mourning because we are gone and lost. They want to make it right.
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coolchef
i still have many very many close friends who were all in twi together
i guess are friendship is more inportant than twi bull ship
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Wanderer
Belle,
I really didn't feel shot down, and I think I'll call occasionaly, just to be a friend. I guess in the back of my head, I figured she'd see the light and get the hell out. Looking back, she called me during the "Passing of the old Geeser" period to see where I stood. At that time I was heavily into native american spirituality (Which I still practice, although not so intensly), and I let her know in a nice way that I wasn't interested. So I guess she bit into the LCM stuff too, and now she's hanging with
www.cbrinc.org
a splinter run by Gary Gudlin, an old way corpse guy. Now to be fair, I met some way corps folke who were nice, but I met more Bozos than loving people.
I really liked the thread about disfuctional social skills, you started. I think part of my problem with the way, was that I never went for the phony stuff. I have a strong drive to be myself (Although this has gotten me into a fix a time or two), and leadership wasn't too fond of that. I was also well trained in philosophy, making me a difficult person to argue successfuly with.
Bottom line...It's her choice, but I'll still be her friend.
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Kit Sober
for me it's rarely an issue. I was non-twi-fitting when I was in that place, and even more so, now (Catholic, trinity, non-judgmental of others, trying to keep my own self on a walk that is somewhat Christ-like is my "cause celebre".)
The ones who are in don't want to have anything to do with me, regardless of any life-long friendship they may have once offered. Oh well.
One of the reasons I use my own name is so anyone who wants to contact me, can do so, pretty effortlessly.
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