I beleive that there is a difference between spanking a child and beating a child. And, children should not be beaten.
The way to discliplin a child is as unique as the child themselves. what works for one child might not work for another.
OF course I am one of those who thinks that sometimes parents should be discliplined for the way there children behave in stores, restraunts, etc...
Maybe one of the reasons there are disclipline problems in schools is that parents don't disclipline there children.
Of course it make me feel good that this Country has nothing more important going on in it than to try to get involved in the way parents raise there children.
OF course I am one of those who thinks that sometimes parents should be discliplined for the way there children behave in stores, restraunts, etc...
Hey good buddy Zshot... me thinks that if you ever have the pleasure of (responibility for) parenting a young child... you might have more compassion for overwhelmed parents!
However, you still might have a good point... ok, you (DO) have more than one good point. Children should definitely NOT be beaten... no question about that. AND obviously there's still plenty of debate about spanking.
The biggest downside I see to such an ominous (potential) law is that it would UNdoubtedly be used most by divorcing parents in contested custody cases to gain legal advantage AND to alienate a child against the other parent. And THAT is VERY BAD all around.
I don't think you should ever beat a child. Dicipline when they are out of bounds yes. A good scolding or maybe a swat on the bum yes. Show them you are on their side to some degree but don't break their spirit no. Some of my other nephews none of the above worked but time did and they love me and respect me, not they I sought it.
In the great state of Oklahoma a number of years ago. Governor Keeting in a state address said spanking a child is acceptable as a parent because Okie kids were so out of bounds and unfortuneatly he had to speak on the matter for all of the liberal lawsuits at hand.
I remember once I went to my brothers house and was waiting for him. One of my nephews was needling his sister so I told him to sit up the on tailgate of my truck. He refused, so I went and got a switch off of a tree. He told me he would call DHS, I said I will really give you something to tell them before they arrive. He stayed on that tailgate.
Personally, while in a childrens home for three years, I have been beat as a kid with paddles, switches on my bare back, water hoses or anything else the adult could grab.
I was wild growing up but never used these methods on my kids. Beating not good they will rebel. Hope this helps.
Back in the day of dinosaurs when I and my friends were being brought up
The one thing we were sure of was if we misbehaved be it at home, school, church, the store--discipline would be swift and sure and painful.
NO other adult batted an eye when a misbehaving child received a quick swat on the behind in a store when misbehaving.
My father had no qualms about removing me to the foyer of the church when as acted up and giving a swift swat.
Result--
if I didn't like the results I did not repeat the behavior
My parents were not consumed by the need to make sure I understood their logic, that I understood why we didn't do certain things--in their lexicon it was irrelevant at the moment as to why ---down the road the more esoteric discussion may take place but in the moment--right behavior was the goal and it was to be achieved as quickly and as expeditiously as possible
Back in the day of dinosaurs when I and my friends were being brought up
The one thing we were sure of was if we misbehaved be it at home, school, church, the store--discipline would be swift and sure and painful.
NO other adult batted an eye when a misbehaving child received a quick swat on the behind in a store when misbehaving.
My father had no qualms about removing me to the foyer of the church when as acted up and giving a swift swat.
Result--
if I didn't like the results I did not repeat the behavior
My parents were not consumed by the need to make sure I understood their logic, that I understood why we didn't do certain things--in their lexicon it was irrelevant at the moment as to why ---down the road the more esoteric discussion may take place but in the moment--right behavior was the goal and it was to be achieved as quickly and as expeditiously as possible
I have not looked at the bill, so I will not comment on its merits.
However, I will chime in on the issue of spanking as a topic, being fully aware that I am apparently in the minority with my views, considering our ex TWI affiliations, and the "way we were raised" opinions.
Some feel that beating a child is a way of teaching them. I wonder, what is it that the child learns?
I am certain we mostly are in agreement on severe beating and abuse, and that is not the issue at hand now. I personally do not count a light slap on the hand or buttocks to be corporal punishment either. These are attention getters IMO, akin to lightly grasping a child's chin and directing their attention towards you words.
It is my firm belief that anything more than extremely rare uses of corporal punishment (spanking and slapping) used to "discipline" a child are bad, and often leads to more severe problems in a child's psyche and well-being. Note that I said there could be some extremely rare circumstances when such a method might be useful. It should be reserved for those circumstances. Here is an interesting study I found, published in 1999 entitled "Slapping and spanking in childhood and its association with lifetime prevalence of psychiatric disorders in a general population sample" :
The full text of her study can be found in the link at the top right of the page.
A synopsis by the author, Harriet L. MacMillan, MD:
Interpretation: There appears to be a linear association between the frequency of slapping and spanking during childhood and a lifetime prevalence of anxiety disorder, alcohol abuse or dependence and externalizing problems.
Clinical depression is the only, or one of the few, disorders that did not show an increased frequency parallel to frequency of spanking/slapping.
How often I have heard "It was good enough for my parents.......and I turned out allright". I wonder sometimes. We also hear about how this country is going to heck in a handbasket, and more and more I see people less willing (or perhaps less ABLE mentally) to adjust and adapt to their surroundings and a changing world. I hear "kids today have so much contempt for adults". I wonder how much of the so-called rebellious attitude we have, and children today have, could be ascribed to poor parenting practices.
It is hard to find legitimate studies that indicate benefit from frequent use of corporal punishment. Some merit can be shown for the "occasional" use, as is common in many countries, especially in Asia. I spanked one of my boys (a young teen) one time, in a severe situation. We both sincerely apologized the next morning. We both knew it was a rare event, and therefore the issue of the time was of more importance than "you were late" or "you sassed me".
Anyway, I found it quite effective to reward for good behavior, and withhold reward during bad behavior virtually all the other moments when discipline was needed. Winning a child's respect is more easily accomplished through earning it rather than beating it into them. It is also quite less expensive than years of therapy such as far too many people find necessary for themselves these days. (This is NOT to say such therapy is not warranted or needed, I am just stating the fact that there are one heck of alot of people utilizing it to get through some life event or series of events). I have no way to definitively ascribe that corporal punishment resulted in a need for later therapy in any individual case. But perhaps the above study shows that there is in general a link beteen such things.
Lastly, one thing I most certainly do not entertain as useful to any degree, is corporal punishment in schools. Educators are or were once) there to teach my kids academics, arts, and physical education. I do not feel part of the physical education should be that adults are bigger, stronger, and can hit and get away with it. In light of the fact that many parents do not in their home ascribe to the tenets of "beat it into them", educators should NEVER be allowed to strike a child other than in instances where imminent danger exists for the teacher or nearby students. NEVER!. I do not care how many paddles we saw in the gym teacher's or principal's hands when we grew up. It did not make your life more meaningful or disciplined. You only took your misbehavior outta sight or jurisdiction of them.
I felt so strongly on that issue that a number of years ago I successfully presented to the legislature and saw through passage a state law to that effect. I have never since doubted its advisability. It was not easy to get sufficient support, but we succeeded in the end, and I feel I did well.
Some feel that beating a child is a way of teaching them. I wonder, what is it that the child learns?
IF that bill passes, then the jails will be maxed out in days and the fines will surpass any taxes that were levied that year.
I've gone as far as to give one of my boys a firm but meaningful swat in public even, when nothing else would get their attention. I saw a look of approval from several older folks but didn't really care if anyone disapproved. Sometimes its the only thing that works. I would much rather reward them for good behavior and certainly take into account when they might be over tired, hungry, or other aspects of what might cause them to act out. Those symptoms not being part of the problem and the boys not getting their act together....
Has anyone heard that story in the media lately about the family who was asked to get off a plane just before takeoff because they couldn't get their 3 year old daughter under control?
She was in the midst of a major temper tantrum - she tried to crawl under seats, she yelled, screamed, and hit her parents. She was totally out of control. They were given 15 mins. to get her settled down and in a seat with a seatbelt. When the time was up, they were taken off the plane and given FREE tickets to their destination and another set of FREE ROUND TRIP TICKETS and an apology from the airline. Yet they still got the media involved with the issue.
I have to wonder what the outcome would have been if they spanked that girl in the first place...? Had she been my kid, that tantrum would have lasted a moment and she would have had a quick warning to get it together and then a smack where God had placed so much padding. It's there for a reason!
When my children were young, I used to hit them with wooden spoons. However, if I had to do it all over again, I would never hit my children. Sure, they may stop the behavior, but at what cost?
Corporal punishment causes agression in children, weakens the bond between parent and child, and can cause severe injury even with moderate spanking. Spanking does not teach acceptable conflict resolution, but instead teaches might makes right.
I feel a lot of childish behavior that is deemed inappropriate actually comes from a child that is hungry, tired, sick, or curious. In these situations, the parent would be the one who needed discipline, not the child, but usually the child will end up with a swat on the fanny.
I don't feel spanking should be illegal, because I do feel that the vast majority of parents who spank are loving and are well intentioned. I do think people need to be taught positive ways to raise children, and alternative, non-violent methods of punishment.
I spanked very infrequently - as in almost never. I was more of a mind to try to talk to my kids - of course that got me comments like, "You're EXPLAINING SOMETHING TO A THREE YEAR OLD!" And of course that was followed with some blah blah yadda yadda that I had just handed the control to my kid.
In retorespect, I DID give my girls some control. They learned to reason and listen to reason.
At least that's what I taught them.
I'm not a fan of spanking just because a child has stepped out of line. I'm also not a fan of the grand, bullying threats of punishment of epic proportions just because a shoe is left out of place.
gee, I coulda said it all in a few words like you did Shell! why didn't I?
I point out that I did not "allow" bad behavior. I, with a onetime exception, did not succumb to the idea of "I can prove the importance of my dominance by hitting you". Most the other "advisories" were well accomplished with "dad's look", or if the situation needed it, an escort to a private place where I DID make sure my logic was understood. I WAS consumed with it. The message I preferred was "I am Dad, I know more, and until you can demonstrrate to me with sound argument that this is no longer the case, you need to listen."
The boys still come to me for advice, call from across national borders, and text message my phone, but they do it less than before, and the time will come when their sound logic will trump mine. The time passed long ago that I could physically dominate them. I am glad they never had to prove that point to me to win an argument.
I never subscribed to the TWI view that "you will do what I say" because I am the parent, or "because I am limb coordinator". I see no difference between those two "reasons" to do what someone says. I know some did.
IF that bill passes, then the jails will be maxed out in days and the fines will surpass any taxes that were levied that year.
I disagree ChasUFarley...
HOWEVER... IF the law (if it were to pass) were ENFORCED, then certainly it would quickly fill up the correctional facilities.
BUT like many immigration laws (which are OFTEN not enforced, for similar reasons) it will be ignored. Law enforcement agencies will say "we don't have the resources to enforce this." And they will be correct.
THAT is why I believe the ONLY thing such a law would do is further exacerbate custody battles in divorce cases.... and as I said before, that's VERY BAD all around... but mostly for the kids.
A parallel to another socially controversial topic -- abortion. If abortion is RE-outlawed, abortion will NOT be eliminated as a birth control method. Abortion would, instead, go underground. Doing so would cause a public health catastrophe... as abortions would no longer be subject to the regulation of sanitary conditions in hospitals and/or licensed clinics. I do NOT approve of abortion.
But I know that to stop (well, really to only reduce the number of) abortions, an indirect route must be taken, with more preventative strategies.
So to with spanking. Outlawing it won't eliminate it.
Only providing societal conditions that reduce stress in the lives of parents AND provide for effective disciplinary techniques/strategies without spanking/hitting/beating or any variation thereof -- has any chance of reducing whatever problem may exist in a family where spanking occurs more than on a rare occasion and/or which is more than just a light, quick attention getter that doesn't provide more than a very brief sting.
She is just copying the one that was passed in NY just the beginning of this week. It is now illegal to spank any child under the age of 4!
She is just copying the one that was passed in NY just the beginning of this week. It is now illegal to spank any child under the age of 4!
More insanity from our government.
A child much over the age of 4 would rarely need a spanking. By 6 or 7 they are old enough that other consequences are often more effective.
A child 4 and under, on the other hand, knows no reason. You can't take away their phone, tv, or computer privileges - well you can, but it will be meaningless to them. You can't "ground them" - again meaningless. It is precisely the age group they are banning spankings from that are most likely to benefit from a well placed swat on the behind.
I spanked very infrequently - as in almost never. I was more of a mind to try to talk to my kids - of course that got me comments like, "You're EXPLAINING SOMETHING TO A THREE YEAR OLD!" And of course that was followed with some blah blah yadda yadda that I had just handed the control to my kid.
In retorespect, I DID give my girls some control. They learned to reason and listen to reason.
At least that's what I taught them.
I'm not a fan of spanking just because a child has stepped out of line. I'm also not a fan of the grand, bullying threats of punishment of epic proportions just because a shoe is left out of place.
Good points Dooj. "they learned to reason and listen to reason"
As to the "grand bullying threats..." A wonderful national speaker on parenting, Barbara Coloroso, once told me to consider this: "Is it life threatening, is it morally threatening, is it unhealthy?" If not, then smile while you watch them learn. If they forget their jacket, don't take it to them. If they get cold, they are likely to remember next time. If they don't get cold, then they didn't have it with them to lose anyway! I assume if it was unhealthily cold, MY kids would recognize this upon steppng outside. LOL
Here are some links to things Barbara teaches, including one of her books, "Kids are Worth It":
I got my share of spankings as a child and it never helped ME!
But seriously, is the heart of the discussion whether spanking is a viable disciplinary measure or whether the government has a right to intervene? Two seperate issues/ both worthy of study.
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Belle
I think that how I raise my kids is none of her business.
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Zshot
I beleive that there is a difference between spanking a child and beating a child. And, children should not be beaten.
The way to discliplin a child is as unique as the child themselves. what works for one child might not work for another.
OF course I am one of those who thinks that sometimes parents should be discliplined for the way there children behave in stores, restraunts, etc...
Maybe one of the reasons there are disclipline problems in schools is that parents don't disclipline there children.
Of course it make me feel good that this Country has nothing more important going on in it than to try to get involved in the way parents raise there children.
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Rocky
Hey good buddy Zshot... me thinks that if you ever have the pleasure of (responibility for) parenting a young child... you might have more compassion for overwhelmed parents!
However, you still might have a good point... ok, you (DO) have more than one good point. Children should definitely NOT be beaten... no question about that. AND obviously there's still plenty of debate about spanking.
The biggest downside I see to such an ominous (potential) law is that it would UNdoubtedly be used most by divorcing parents in contested custody cases to gain legal advantage AND to alienate a child against the other parent. And THAT is VERY BAD all around.
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ChattyKathy
I think it is ridicules. I wonder if she has children and what they are/were like
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fellowshipper
I don't think you should ever beat a child. Dicipline when they are out of bounds yes. A good scolding or maybe a swat on the bum yes. Show them you are on their side to some degree but don't break their spirit no. Some of my other nephews none of the above worked but time did and they love me and respect me, not they I sought it.
In the great state of Oklahoma a number of years ago. Governor Keeting in a state address said spanking a child is acceptable as a parent because Okie kids were so out of bounds and unfortuneatly he had to speak on the matter for all of the liberal lawsuits at hand.
I remember once I went to my brothers house and was waiting for him. One of my nephews was needling his sister so I told him to sit up the on tailgate of my truck. He refused, so I went and got a switch off of a tree. He told me he would call DHS, I said I will really give you something to tell them before they arrive. He stayed on that tailgate.
Personally, while in a childrens home for three years, I have been beat as a kid with paddles, switches on my bare back, water hoses or anything else the adult could grab.
I was wild growing up but never used these methods on my kids. Beating not good they will rebel. Hope this helps.
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templelady
Spanking is not beating
Back in the day of dinosaurs when I and my friends were being brought up
The one thing we were sure of was if we misbehaved be it at home, school, church, the store--discipline would be swift and sure and painful.
NO other adult batted an eye when a misbehaving child received a quick swat on the behind in a store when misbehaving.
My father had no qualms about removing me to the foyer of the church when as acted up and giving a swift swat.
Result--
if I didn't like the results I did not repeat the behavior
My parents were not consumed by the need to make sure I understood their logic, that I understood why we didn't do certain things--in their lexicon it was irrelevant at the moment as to why ---down the road the more esoteric discussion may take place but in the moment--right behavior was the goal and it was to be achieved as quickly and as expeditiously as possible
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krys
She is just copying the one that was passed in NY just the beginning of this week. It is now illegal to spank any child under the age of 4!
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potato
if we want to know about her kids, we should ask the nanny who raised them.
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WordWolf
News to me.
Let's see them try to ENFORCE this one.
They can't stop JAYWALKING.
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Dot Matrix
I totally agree
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Dot Matrix
LOL at the bolded comment and I agree
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Shellon
What we allow we teach is ok.
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HAPe4me
I have not looked at the bill, so I will not comment on its merits.
However, I will chime in on the issue of spanking as a topic, being fully aware that I am apparently in the minority with my views, considering our ex TWI affiliations, and the "way we were raised" opinions.
Some feel that beating a child is a way of teaching them. I wonder, what is it that the child learns?
I am certain we mostly are in agreement on severe beating and abuse, and that is not the issue at hand now. I personally do not count a light slap on the hand or buttocks to be corporal punishment either. These are attention getters IMO, akin to lightly grasping a child's chin and directing their attention towards you words.
It is my firm belief that anything more than extremely rare uses of corporal punishment (spanking and slapping) used to "discipline" a child are bad, and often leads to more severe problems in a child's psyche and well-being. Note that I said there could be some extremely rare circumstances when such a method might be useful. It should be reserved for those circumstances. Here is an interesting study I found, published in 1999 entitled "Slapping and spanking in childhood and its association with lifetime prevalence of psychiatric disorders in a general population sample" :
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/abstract/16...pe2=tf_ipsecsha
The full text of her study can be found in the link at the top right of the page.
A synopsis by the author, Harriet L. MacMillan, MD:
Clinical depression is the only, or one of the few, disorders that did not show an increased frequency parallel to frequency of spanking/slapping.
How often I have heard "It was good enough for my parents.......and I turned out allright". I wonder sometimes. We also hear about how this country is going to heck in a handbasket, and more and more I see people less willing (or perhaps less ABLE mentally) to adjust and adapt to their surroundings and a changing world. I hear "kids today have so much contempt for adults". I wonder how much of the so-called rebellious attitude we have, and children today have, could be ascribed to poor parenting practices.
It is hard to find legitimate studies that indicate benefit from frequent use of corporal punishment. Some merit can be shown for the "occasional" use, as is common in many countries, especially in Asia. I spanked one of my boys (a young teen) one time, in a severe situation. We both sincerely apologized the next morning. We both knew it was a rare event, and therefore the issue of the time was of more importance than "you were late" or "you sassed me".
Anyway, I found it quite effective to reward for good behavior, and withhold reward during bad behavior virtually all the other moments when discipline was needed. Winning a child's respect is more easily accomplished through earning it rather than beating it into them. It is also quite less expensive than years of therapy such as far too many people find necessary for themselves these days. (This is NOT to say such therapy is not warranted or needed, I am just stating the fact that there are one heck of alot of people utilizing it to get through some life event or series of events). I have no way to definitively ascribe that corporal punishment resulted in a need for later therapy in any individual case. But perhaps the above study shows that there is in general a link beteen such things.
Lastly, one thing I most certainly do not entertain as useful to any degree, is corporal punishment in schools. Educators are or were once) there to teach my kids academics, arts, and physical education. I do not feel part of the physical education should be that adults are bigger, stronger, and can hit and get away with it. In light of the fact that many parents do not in their home ascribe to the tenets of "beat it into them", educators should NEVER be allowed to strike a child other than in instances where imminent danger exists for the teacher or nearby students. NEVER!. I do not care how many paddles we saw in the gym teacher's or principal's hands when we grew up. It did not make your life more meaningful or disciplined. You only took your misbehavior outta sight or jurisdiction of them.
I felt so strongly on that issue that a number of years ago I successfully presented to the legislature and saw through passage a state law to that effect. I have never since doubted its advisability. It was not easy to get sufficient support, but we succeeded in the end, and I feel I did well.
Some feel that beating a child is a way of teaching them. I wonder, what is it that the child learns?
~HAP
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ChasUFarley
IF that bill passes, then the jails will be maxed out in days and the fines will surpass any taxes that were levied that year.
I've gone as far as to give one of my boys a firm but meaningful swat in public even, when nothing else would get their attention. I saw a look of approval from several older folks but didn't really care if anyone disapproved. Sometimes its the only thing that works. I would much rather reward them for good behavior and certainly take into account when they might be over tired, hungry, or other aspects of what might cause them to act out. Those symptoms not being part of the problem and the boys not getting their act together....
Has anyone heard that story in the media lately about the family who was asked to get off a plane just before takeoff because they couldn't get their 3 year old daughter under control?
She was in the midst of a major temper tantrum - she tried to crawl under seats, she yelled, screamed, and hit her parents. She was totally out of control. They were given 15 mins. to get her settled down and in a seat with a seatbelt. When the time was up, they were taken off the plane and given FREE tickets to their destination and another set of FREE ROUND TRIP TICKETS and an apology from the airline. Yet they still got the media involved with the issue.
I have to wonder what the outcome would have been if they spanked that girl in the first place...? Had she been my kid, that tantrum would have lasted a moment and she would have had a quick warning to get it together and then a smack where God had placed so much padding. It's there for a reason!
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excathedra
any law in the works about screwing up a kid with verbal and emotional abuse ?
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VeganXTC
When my children were young, I used to hit them with wooden spoons. However, if I had to do it all over again, I would never hit my children. Sure, they may stop the behavior, but at what cost?
Corporal punishment causes agression in children, weakens the bond between parent and child, and can cause severe injury even with moderate spanking. Spanking does not teach acceptable conflict resolution, but instead teaches might makes right.
I feel a lot of childish behavior that is deemed inappropriate actually comes from a child that is hungry, tired, sick, or curious. In these situations, the parent would be the one who needed discipline, not the child, but usually the child will end up with a swat on the fanny.
I don't feel spanking should be illegal, because I do feel that the vast majority of parents who spank are loving and are well intentioned. I do think people need to be taught positive ways to raise children, and alternative, non-violent methods of punishment.
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ChattyKathy
So she was real qualified I reckon. :unsure:
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doojable
I spanked very infrequently - as in almost never. I was more of a mind to try to talk to my kids - of course that got me comments like, "You're EXPLAINING SOMETHING TO A THREE YEAR OLD!" And of course that was followed with some blah blah yadda yadda that I had just handed the control to my kid.
In retorespect, I DID give my girls some control. They learned to reason and listen to reason.
At least that's what I taught them.
I'm not a fan of spanking just because a child has stepped out of line. I'm also not a fan of the grand, bullying threats of punishment of epic proportions just because a shoe is left out of place.
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HAPe4me
gee, I coulda said it all in a few words like you did Shell! why didn't I?
I point out that I did not "allow" bad behavior. I, with a onetime exception, did not succumb to the idea of "I can prove the importance of my dominance by hitting you". Most the other "advisories" were well accomplished with "dad's look", or if the situation needed it, an escort to a private place where I DID make sure my logic was understood. I WAS consumed with it. The message I preferred was "I am Dad, I know more, and until you can demonstrrate to me with sound argument that this is no longer the case, you need to listen."
The boys still come to me for advice, call from across national borders, and text message my phone, but they do it less than before, and the time will come when their sound logic will trump mine. The time passed long ago that I could physically dominate them. I am glad they never had to prove that point to me to win an argument.
I never subscribed to the TWI view that "you will do what I say" because I am the parent, or "because I am limb coordinator". I see no difference between those two "reasons" to do what someone says. I know some did.
Gad!
~HAP "Children are our legacy to a time not seen"
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ChattyKathy
This is most unsettling to think a bill like this was passed, most unsettling.
And yes spanking and beating are not the same thing as stated by more than one person here.
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Rocky
I disagree ChasUFarley...
HOWEVER... IF the law (if it were to pass) were ENFORCED, then certainly it would quickly fill up the correctional facilities.
BUT like many immigration laws (which are OFTEN not enforced, for similar reasons) it will be ignored. Law enforcement agencies will say "we don't have the resources to enforce this." And they will be correct.
THAT is why I believe the ONLY thing such a law would do is further exacerbate custody battles in divorce cases.... and as I said before, that's VERY BAD all around... but mostly for the kids.
A parallel to another socially controversial topic -- abortion. If abortion is RE-outlawed, abortion will NOT be eliminated as a birth control method. Abortion would, instead, go underground. Doing so would cause a public health catastrophe... as abortions would no longer be subject to the regulation of sanitary conditions in hospitals and/or licensed clinics. I do NOT approve of abortion.
But I know that to stop (well, really to only reduce the number of) abortions, an indirect route must be taken, with more preventative strategies.
So to with spanking. Outlawing it won't eliminate it.
Only providing societal conditions that reduce stress in the lives of parents AND provide for effective disciplinary techniques/strategies without spanking/hitting/beating or any variation thereof -- has any chance of reducing whatever problem may exist in a family where spanking occurs more than on a rare occasion and/or which is more than just a light, quick attention getter that doesn't provide more than a very brief sting.
Just my opinion.
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Abigail
A child much over the age of 4 would rarely need a spanking. By 6 or 7 they are old enough that other consequences are often more effective.
A child 4 and under, on the other hand, knows no reason. You can't take away their phone, tv, or computer privileges - well you can, but it will be meaningless to them. You can't "ground them" - again meaningless. It is precisely the age group they are banning spankings from that are most likely to benefit from a well placed swat on the behind.
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HAPe4me
Good points Dooj. "they learned to reason and listen to reason"
As to the "grand bullying threats..." A wonderful national speaker on parenting, Barbara Coloroso, once told me to consider this: "Is it life threatening, is it morally threatening, is it unhealthy?" If not, then smile while you watch them learn. If they forget their jacket, don't take it to them. If they get cold, they are likely to remember next time. If they don't get cold, then they didn't have it with them to lose anyway! I assume if it was unhealthily cold, MY kids would recognize this upon steppng outside. LOL
Here are some links to things Barbara teaches, including one of her books, "Kids are Worth It":
http://www.lalecheleague.org/llleaderweb/L...ctNov01p99.html
and:
http://urbanmoms.typepad.com/urbanmoms_boo...5/09/index.html
Another of her lines is: "I believe in you; I trust you, you can handle this, you are listened to, I care for you, and you are important to me."
HAP Children are our legacy to a time we will not see.
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waysider
I got my share of spankings as a child and it never helped ME!
But seriously, is the heart of the discussion whether spanking is a viable disciplinary measure or whether the government has a right to intervene? Two seperate issues/ both worthy of study.
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