"From the bizarre prophecies of Charles Manson to the desperate paranoia of Jim Jones, cult leaders draw us into worlds of power, paranoia, and death. Through interviews with world-renowned scholars and the survivors of cultic tragedy, we will unmask the mystery of cults. From Jim Jones' pursuit of a socialist paradise to Warren Jeffs' Yearning for Zion ranch, cult leaders have twisted the quest for purity into an obsession with madness and murder."
Anyway, now I realize why so many families were freaked out when their kids got involved with the Way........
and then hired ''deprogramers'' and kidnapped them!
Great! Responding to the abuses of TWI with the abuses of anti-cult fanatics. Much like responding to Communism with the likes of Joe McCarthy. <_< Keep in mind Bliss, that a good number of those who viewed TWI as a cult did so because of the 'heretical' nature of TWI's teachings, including the biggie, the non-trinitarian doctrine. All of which had nothing to do with TWIs abuses. This I know for sure.
BTW, I wonder how many experts that questioned/challenged the 'mind control theory' did the History Channel interview as well? :unsure:
Great! Responding to the abuses of TWI with the abuses of anti-cult fanatics. Much like responding to Communism with the likes of Joe McCarthy. <_< Keep in mind Bliss, that a good number of those who viewed TWI as a cult did so because of the 'heretical' nature of TWI's teachings, including the biggie, the non-trinitarian doctrine. All of which had nothing to do with TWIs abuses. This I know for sure.
BTW, I wonder how many experts that questioned/challenged the 'mind control theory' did the History Channel interview as well? :unsure:
:blink: ................ point being the ''extremes''.
History channel didn't talk about the ''deprogramers'' Garth. (If I remember correctly).
Parents seeing '' Jonestown'' unfold before their eyes is enough for them to want to get their kids ''out of the cult'' that belives Jesus is NOT God. Just gave them more fuel. (I know they knew nothing of abuses).
Geeze, Garth... Do you just look for reasons to pick a fight?
Bliss said that, after seeing how destructive these cults were she could see how parents would freak out about their kids getting involved with TWI. Have you never tried to put yourself in someone else's shoes? :huh:
Not knowing all that much about TWI but knowing about Jonestown, Manson, etc. and seeing my kids do the complete personality turnaround like I know I did, I'd worry, too. Especially when TWI started pressuring their kids to cut communication with their families. And, most especially, back in the early days when the group was so new and not all that much was known about it. There wasn't some "internet" back then where you could look them up. There weren't many places at all to get information about TWI. It was like flying blind and wondering what the he11 your kids were getting into.
Can't blame a parent for taking drastic measures for what they thought was a drastic situation. We all do the best we can and, for some parents, that's the best they could think to do. In the late 1990's my parents thought about doing the same thing. They were very close to shelling out thousands of dollars to have a coordinated "intervention" of some sort, but they were afraid that they might lose me forever if things didn't go well.
Deprogramming "back in the day" may have been just as bad as the treatment the kids were getting in the cults, but folks like Steve Hassan don't operate that way. There's no "kidnapping" and physical restraint or anything along those lines. In fact, one lady I'm acquainted with actually "got her son back" thanks to an intervention/deprogramming week-end with her 21 year old son regarding some cult he had gotten himself involved with.
TWI's too tame to even make a blip on the cult history radar. Destructive as he11? You betcha, but it's no Jonestown or Koresh compound and since we didn't try to ride the back of as comet, TWI's just not all that newsworthy.
I didn't catch the cult specials last night, but I did find myself particularly irritated with a "Bible Codes" program
the "History Channel" ran yesterday afternoon....
[snip]
I can only conclude that this program amounted to nothing more than an elaborate infomercial thinly disguised as a "documentary", to sell the books by hacks to whom the Bible is nothing more than a crossword puzzle.
The only thing remotely "historical"" in the program was the archival footage used.
I used to like the "History Channel", but their standards for what comprises actual "history" has become increasingly questionable to me these past few years.
Danny
I agree wholeheartedly, Danny. The sentence of yours that I've put in bold above sums up perfectly how I feel about most of the History Channel programs that try to cover anything biblical.
And Belle said:
Not knowing all that much about TWI but knowing about Jonestown, Manson, etc. and seeing my kids do the complete personality turnaround like I know I did, I'd worry, too. Especially when TWI started pressuring their kids to cut communication with their families. And, most especially, back in the early days when the group was so new and not all that much was known about it. There wasn't some "internet" back then where you could look them up. There weren't many places at all to get information about TWI. It was like flying blind and wondering what the he11 your kids were getting into.
Parents could do what mine did. They could go see for themselves, rather than hiring overpriced kidnappers to browbeat their grown children until they renounced their beliefs. My personality changed too...my dad said it was for the better. When I stopped going to fellowship for a few months and reverted to my former wild ways, he begged me to go back, saying, "You were so much nicer then." Hahahaha.
Can't blame a parent for taking drastic measures for what they thought was a drastic situation. We all do the best we can and, for some parents, that's the best they could think to do.
I try not to judge. With all the bad press twi was getting in the mid- to late 70s, I can understand parents being concerned. But trust me when I tell you, deprogramming wasn't the answer. I knew several people who were snatched, kept in some isolated hole in the wall against their will and were treated extremely badly. The deprogrammers preyed on and fed the fears of parents (just as they continue to do today).
Deprogramming "back in the day" may have been just as bad as the treatment the kids were getting in the cults,
Like I said, several people I knew (in the Corps) were kidnapped for attempted deprogrammings. A couple of them succeeded in escaping from their captors. I'd say how badly they were treated was far, far worse than anything any of us were experiencing in twi at that time.
...but folks like Steve Hassan don't operate that way. There's no "kidnapping" and physical restraint or anything along those lines.
That's not what I've read about his methods. I know deprogrammers had to get more sophisticated in their approach, because deprogramming had gotten such a black eye, but there are still people who say Hassan has resorted to kidnapping, etc. I do know that he perpetuates the whole "mind control" thing, which I've argued against enough times that I don't feel like going into it again. And it's my understanding that he charges BIG bucks, like $2500/day for his "interventions." Good Lord.
In fact, one lady I'm acquainted with actually "got her son back" thanks to an intervention/deprogramming week-end with her 21 year old son regarding some cult he had gotten himself involved with.
I'd be very interested in hearing the son's perspective on this. Perhaps Lifted Up will show up and tell about his experience with being deprogrammed and what it did to him. Your parents were wise in not going that route. I can't imagine how much resentment I'd feel toward my parents if they had ever subjected me to such nonsense. I'm afraid it would have taken many years for me to trust them again.
TWI's too tame to even make a blip on the cult history radar. Destructive as he11? You betcha, but it's no Jonestown or Koresh compound and since we didn't try to ride the back of as comet, TWI's just not all that newsworthy.
With this I agree. Twi was a high-demand religious sect that got more and more legalistic and controlling over time. But compared to the Jonestowns and Wacos of this world, it was a tame organization.
Actually, I posted to make a specific point. Just because it might not agree with what you believe is a rather pi**-poor reason to simply accuse me of "Do you just look for reasons to pick a fight?".
I was about to post further as to elaborate on my previous post, but I think Linda nailed it on the head better than I did.
Now I wonder, ..... is she now looking for reasons to pick a fight? Hhmmmm?
Frankly I've noticed that a good number of anti-cult people act with just as much of a 'mark and avoid' mentality as the 'cultists' do, particularly when their Cult Definitions are being scrutinized and challenged. That's my observation anyway.
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ChattyKathy
I hope someone sees it just in case "you know who" is among them.
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outintexas
10 PM eastern tonight (Saturday). Repeats at 2AM.
"From the bizarre prophecies of Charles Manson to the desperate paranoia of Jim Jones, cult leaders draw us into worlds of power, paranoia, and death. Through interviews with world-renowned scholars and the survivors of cultic tragedy, we will unmask the mystery of cults. From Jim Jones' pursuit of a socialist paradise to Warren Jeffs' Yearning for Zion ranch, cult leaders have twisted the quest for purity into an obsession with madness and murder."
I'll be watching! Thanks.
I love The History Channel!
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bliss
It was on a few weeks ago. MY WHOLE FAMILY watched it! It was so freaky. But good.
It just showed you how powerful people can be, and how people get sucked into
''following man''....
**sounds familar**
Anyway, now I realize why so many families were freaked out when their kids got involved with the Way........
and then hired ''deprogramers'' and kidnapped them!
The stuff that these wackos did, I would of done the same.............................
unless I was duped too.
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GarthP2000
Great! Responding to the abuses of TWI with the abuses of anti-cult fanatics. Much like responding to Communism with the likes of Joe McCarthy. <_< Keep in mind Bliss, that a good number of those who viewed TWI as a cult did so because of the 'heretical' nature of TWI's teachings, including the biggie, the non-trinitarian doctrine. All of which had nothing to do with TWIs abuses. This I know for sure.
BTW, I wonder how many experts that questioned/challenged the 'mind control theory' did the History Channel interview as well? :unsure:
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bliss
:blink: ................ point being the ''extremes''.
History channel didn't talk about the ''deprogramers'' Garth. (If I remember correctly).
Parents seeing '' Jonestown'' unfold before their eyes is enough for them to want to get their kids ''out of the cult'' that belives Jesus is NOT God. Just gave them more fuel. (I know they knew nothing of abuses).
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Belle
Geeze, Garth...
Do you just look for reasons to pick a fight?
Bliss said that, after seeing how destructive these cults were she could see how parents would freak out about their kids getting involved with TWI. Have you never tried to put yourself in someone else's shoes? :huh:
Not knowing all that much about TWI but knowing about Jonestown, Manson, etc. and seeing my kids do the complete personality turnaround like I know I did, I'd worry, too. Especially when TWI started pressuring their kids to cut communication with their families. And, most especially, back in the early days when the group was so new and not all that much was known about it. There wasn't some "internet" back then where you could look them up. There weren't many places at all to get information about TWI. It was like flying blind and wondering what the he11 your kids were getting into.
Can't blame a parent for taking drastic measures for what they thought was a drastic situation. We all do the best we can and, for some parents, that's the best they could think to do. In the late 1990's my parents thought about doing the same thing. They were very close to shelling out thousands of dollars to have a coordinated "intervention" of some sort, but they were afraid that they might lose me forever if things didn't go well.
Deprogramming "back in the day" may have been just as bad as the treatment the kids were getting in the cults, but folks like Steve Hassan don't operate that way. There's no "kidnapping" and physical restraint or anything along those lines. In fact, one lady I'm acquainted with actually "got her son back" thanks to an intervention/deprogramming week-end with her 21 year old son regarding some cult he had gotten himself involved with.
TWI's too tame to even make a blip on the cult history radar. Destructive as he11? You betcha, but it's no Jonestown or Koresh compound and since we didn't try to ride the back of as comet, TWI's just not all that newsworthy.
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TheInvisibleDan
I didn't catch the cult specials last night, but I did find myself particularly irritated with a "Bible Codes" program
the "History Channel" ran yesterday afternoon, which was the usual tired mix of archival footage of Hitler, Osama, and various other
newsreels accompanied by unsubstantiated claims that the Bible when "decoded" foretold this and that and the other thing.
Throughout all this, no explanations or documentation provided as to how these code scholars arrived to such things, outside of
flashing the words "Hitler", "Osama" and "Nuclear Holocaust" on the screen amidst the baseless ramblings.
I can only conclude that this program amounted to nothing more than an elaborate infomercial thinly disguised as a "documentary",
to sell the books by hacks to whom the Bible is nothing more than a crossword puzzle.
The only thing remotely "historical"" in the program was the archival footage used.
I used to like the "History Channel", but their standards for what comprises actual "history" has become increasingly questionable
to me these past few years.
Danny
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Linda Z
I agree wholeheartedly, Danny. The sentence of yours that I've put in bold above sums up perfectly how I feel about most of the History Channel programs that try to cover anything biblical.
And Belle said:
With this I agree. Twi was a high-demand religious sect that got more and more legalistic and controlling over time. But compared to the Jonestowns and Wacos of this world, it was a tame organization.
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GarthP2000
Belle,
Actually, I posted to make a specific point. Just because it might not agree with what you believe is a rather pi**-poor reason to simply accuse me of "Do you just look for reasons to pick a fight?".
I was about to post further as to elaborate on my previous post, but I think Linda nailed it on the head better than I did.
Now I wonder, ..... is she now looking for reasons to pick a fight? Hhmmmm?
Frankly I've noticed that a good number of anti-cult people act with just as much of a 'mark and avoid' mentality as the 'cultists' do, particularly when their Cult Definitions are being scrutinized and challenged. That's my observation anyway.
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