... that "repugnican" comment wasn't aimed at you anyway... that's what I call elected right wingers... generally speaking.
AND please don't be putting words in my mouth. Text in RED above (my emphasis of YOUR quote) is NOT from ME...
the text you put in red was not in my quote of you, as I'm sure you know. My quote was accurate ... you are misleading when you call it my quote, but all that use of red and bold distracts from what you really said.
Again, your interpretation is basically upside down. It is repugnicanism which ignores the needs and realities of Americans. It's just that the ones like rhino don't want to address needs of ANYONE... which is obviously a more stark version of repugnicanism.
OK, so the repugnicans are what you called elected right wingers "like me" that "ignore the needs and realities of Americans". As I pointed out, limiting immigration to legals helps the lower class Americans. Amnesty helps the lower class Mexicans and Mexico, at Americans' expense. It's not about you Rocky, it's about your ridiculous statements.
Hopefully the house can stop some of the calls for amnesty which rewards illegals. Many of those new house democrats actually ran on limiting immigration, so maybe there is a little hope left. But generally it is the left that wants amnesty most.
Republicans running for president like to look more moderate, so seem pretty soft on securing our borders. Other Republicans seem resigned to some sort of amnesty and seem to be playing to win the Mexican swing vote. These actions fly in the face of the 80% of the population that want much stricter limits on immigration.
I am sure that Rocky could go into more detail on this if he wants...
Here in Arizona, there were ballot measures concerning the reduction/elimination of benifits for illegal immigrants. Among them is concerning higher education. If you are an illegal immigrant, you now have to pay "out of state" tuition.
Some would say that these measures that passed (and went into law) went too far and others will say that they have not gone far enough. I believe that there will be more innicitavies concerning illegal immigration on future ballots.
Also, based upon the previous ballot innicitavies passing with 70% of the votes, I conclude that the majority of the people in Arizona do not support of illegal immigration.
It is fair to also point out that there are groups and private organizations that do set up "watering point" for illegal immigrants to help prevent deaths.
I think a small group of delegates made up of us greasers would solve the problems of our country. How do we get elected? I'll be the front line woman when I'm on edge and kick butt and NOT take names.
I think a small group of delegates made up of us greasers would solve the problems of our country. How do we get elected? I'll be the front line woman when I'm on edge and kick butt and NOT take names.
Sure a small group of us could Kathy, but being a minority view, I could not get elected even if votes were confined to "Spotters".
It is a great discussion, and for the most part pleasant. That part I DO like. I would have difficulty expressing my opinions on some of this without losing my own temper, so I refrain for now. What I have to say would not come close to changing anyones view here. I might just work on our legistors instead. It is an issue I am working on, but do not know at this point if I will ever get back to posting here on it.
~HAP
Children are our legacy to a time we will not see.
So Iguess that the next layer in this oinion we are peeling is
Are our Immigration laws
To strict
NOt strict enough
weighed too hevily in favor of one group over another?
If they need to be change dwaht and how??
do we need to toughen up deportation for other nationals who misbehave within our borders
what about Diplomatic immunity?
With a somewhat uninformed view I would say they have not been strict enough and these changes to tighten things up is too little too late.
We weigh too heavy in the direction of taking care of countries that are overpopulated and unable to provide for their own.
I don't know what can be done we are so deep into this mess.
Diplomatic Immunity is important not so that someone can be a jerk-wad while in our country, that just shows poor character for the diplomat and should get their butts in trouble when they return to their countries for embarrassing the country they represent. But to take it away would endanger our diplomats going to other countries lest they be held accountable for the sins of this country in the eyes of the country they are visiting. That whole thing was designed to protect everyone involved and I still think that is important. And I would hope the percentage that take advantage of being jerks and going against the laws of the land they were visiting would be small in comparison to the number that make an impact to the good during their stay. Personally I think it needs to stay intact.
Isn't it in the Constitution that a child born here is a citizen? Was Temple wanting to change that?
I think there is someone trying to change that now.
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
United States Constitution, Amendment 14, section 1, clause 1
The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" is key. In1898 the Supreme Court interpretted that in light of English Common law, saying only diplomats and foreign armies were not included. The dissenting opinion said we had broken from english common law. They also mentioned lack of assimilation. (In the United Kingdom one parent must be a citizen or legal resident.)
It makes more sense to me that illegals are not subject to our laws by the very fact that they broke our law to get here, so they shouldn't be granted "anchor baby" status, where they can bring their parents and other fmily members in once they reach 21. On the face of it it seems pretty absurd. I'd say we are not going by the constitution, but by this 1898 interpretation. Of course unless that is reversed or the amendment changed, that is the law.
Clearly the lack of assimilation is a large problem. A look at Los Angeles numbers and communities might give one pause on granting citizenship so freely, considering all the foreign families being "anchored" to US citizenship.
From an old Center for Immigration Studies page, "Michael Antonovich of the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors states that two-thirds of the births in Los Angeles county hospitals are to illegal aliens. Additionally, Mr. Antonovich notes that these children now account for 30 percent of all AFDC (Aid to Families with Dependent Children) cases in Los Angeles County."
There is some wisdom in that idea, very interesting.
The name of the country escapes me now but I had a co-worker that described what she had to go thru to gain access for her parents to leave their country to come here for a visit. It was harder for them to get out of their country than it was to gain access into ours. I'm not sure what that tells us but I suspect something.
From an old Center for Immigration Studies page, "Michael Antonovich of the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors states that two-thirds of the births in Los Angeles county hospitals are to illegal aliens. Additionally, Mr. Antonovich notes that these children now account for 30 percent of all AFDC (Aid to Families with Dependent Children) cases in Los Angeles County."
Must be REALLY old... because the AFDC program ceased to exist with enactment of the Welfare Reform Act of 1996... replaced with TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) Block Grants to states allowing the state (of California for example) to determine the structure of welfare assistance programs that followed... but Congress still established time limits on any given family's eligibility.
TO expand on my idea about babies born in this country to illegals
I would be willing to agree that if their parents reentered this country legally and became citizens of the United States any children that had been born on United States soil would be United States citizens by birth not by naturalization --this means those children could grow up to be president.
And Yeah all those babies born to illegals with automatic citizenship--they can be president too
30-40 years from now do you want this country run by someone who was raised by people who believe that they should be allowed to ignore our laws while milking the system for all it is worth?????
30-40 years from now do you want this country run by someone who was raised by people who believe that they should be allowed to ignore our laws while milking the system for all it is worth?????
Think it can't happen????
It already has happened...imo...and the opinion of many, many others...but it didn't happen because of illegal immigration...just other illegal stuff...
It already has happened...imo...and the opinion of many, many others...but it didn't happen because of illegal immigration...just other illegal stuff...
TO expand on my idea about babies born in this country to illegals
I would be willing to agree that if their parents reentered this country legally and became citizens of the United States any children that had been born on United States soil would be United States citizens by birth not by naturalization --this means those children could grow up to be president.
And Yeah all those babies born to illegals with automatic citizenship--they can be president too
30-40 years from now do you want this country run by someone who was raised by people who believe that they should be allowed to ignore our laws while milking the system for all it is worth?????
Think it can't happen????
I coulda sworn you were describing the current prez (and his parents, nicer that they are then him)...
then, after I first posted THIS post, I read CW's and Hap's entries... so, I guess I'm not the only one who thought that.
I don't know if I could add too much to this right now but I just had to get this off my chest.
Yesterday someone left me a message in another language at work. I understood nada of what she said. I deleted the message and have no intention of returning her call.
Then this morning bowtwi sent me the best email I've seen on this type thing. Which I will post now minus the pictures it included.
This is how ALL business phones SHOULD be answered!
GOOD MORNING, WELCOME TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Press "1" for English.
Press "2" to disconnect until you learn to speak English
And remember...
only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
This email has been going around ever since the illegal war has been going on.
It is SHAMEFUL to describe the sending of young men and women to their death in an illegal war that basically boils down to, 'shouldn't have ph ucked with my daddy and our money' as dying for my freedom.
It is just plain emotional manipulation to make these young men and women be willing to die...and their mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, etc. be willing to send them to their deaths.
Toss in Jesus to make the manipulation sink in deep and feel like God has put His stamp of approval on it all.
It is SHAMEFUL to describe the sending of young men and women to their death in an illegal war that basically boils down to, 'shouldn't have phucked with my daddy and our money' as dying for my freedom.
Don't have to agree with this or any war to appreciate and applaud the courage and devotion of our men and women in the military who selflessly lay down their lives not only for this countries freedom but others as well.
Freedoms that enable our government to provide electricity, receive medical care, disability checks, food etc both those who are here illegally and those of our citizens who don't work, for whatever the reason, all with a minimum of government interference in their lives.
Which is the point of this thread --how we may need a little more interference to weed out the illegals who beneft from same--not to mention those of our own citizenry who milk the system--A topic I have stayed away from - since this is devoted to the Illegal problem in this country--Perhaps I need to start a companion thread on that subject--but need to head to work right now.
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rhino
Hopefully the house can stop some of the calls for amnesty which rewards illegals. Many of those new house democrats actually ran on limiting immigration, so maybe there is a little hope left. But generally it is the left that wants amnesty most.
Republicans running for president like to look more moderate, so seem pretty soft on securing our borders. Other Republicans seem resigned to some sort of amnesty and seem to be playing to win the Mexican swing vote. These actions fly in the face of the 80% of the population that want much stricter limits on immigration.
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Zshot
I am sure that Rocky could go into more detail on this if he wants...
Here in Arizona, there were ballot measures concerning the reduction/elimination of benifits for illegal immigrants. Among them is concerning higher education. If you are an illegal immigrant, you now have to pay "out of state" tuition.
Some would say that these measures that passed (and went into law) went too far and others will say that they have not gone far enough. I believe that there will be more innicitavies concerning illegal immigration on future ballots.
Also, based upon the previous ballot innicitavies passing with 70% of the votes, I conclude that the majority of the people in Arizona do not support of illegal immigration.
It is fair to also point out that there are groups and private organizations that do set up "watering point" for illegal immigrants to help prevent deaths.
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ChattyKathy
I think a small group of delegates made up of us greasers would solve the problems of our country. How do we get elected? I'll be the front line woman when I'm on edge and kick butt and NOT take names.
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Zshot
Here is a link from the Tucson Citizen concerning the daily flow of illegal immigrants that come here daily...
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/local/39768.php
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ChattyKathy
Well I best get to work and make money so I can pay for my new toy I'm typing on.
All be well!
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templelady
So Iguess that the next layer in this oinion we are peeling is
Are our Immigration laws
To strict
NOt strict enough
weighed too hevily in favor of one group over another?
If they need to be change dwaht and how??
do we need to toughen up deportation for other nationals who misbehave within our borders
what about Diplomatic immunity?
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ChattyKathy
I would like to add my thoughts but can't right now.
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HAPe4me
Sure a small group of us could Kathy, but being a minority view, I could not get elected even if votes were confined to "Spotters".
It is a great discussion, and for the most part pleasant. That part I DO like. I would have difficulty expressing my opinions on some of this without losing my own temper, so I refrain for now. What I have to say would not come close to changing anyones view here. I might just work on our legistors instead. It is an issue I am working on, but do not know at this point if I will ever get back to posting here on it.
~HAP
Children are our legacy to a time we will not see.
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ChattyKathy
Oh heck, I would vote for you dude.
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ChattyKathy
With a somewhat uninformed view I would say they have not been strict enough and these changes to tighten things up is too little too late.
We weigh too heavy in the direction of taking care of countries that are overpopulated and unable to provide for their own.
I don't know what can be done we are so deep into this mess.
Diplomatic Immunity is important not so that someone can be a jerk-wad while in our country, that just shows poor character for the diplomat and should get their butts in trouble when they return to their countries for embarrassing the country they represent. But to take it away would endanger our diplomats going to other countries lest they be held accountable for the sins of this country in the eyes of the country they are visiting. That whole thing was designed to protect everyone involved and I still think that is important. And I would hope the percentage that take advantage of being jerks and going against the laws of the land they were visiting would be small in comparison to the number that make an impact to the good during their stay. Personally I think it needs to stay intact.
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HAPe4me
Kathy- if you would REALLY vote for me you would visit in chat and hear my full platform., whats with that "chatty " part of your name anyway?
Isn't it in the Constitution that a child born here is a citizen? Was Temple wanting to change that?
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ChattyKathy
Hap, will you let me know when you are in chat sometime. Cause when I go in there it has folks I do not know and it is not like the old days. :(
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rhino
I think there is someone trying to change that now.
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
United States Constitution, Amendment 14, section 1, clause 1
The phrase "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" is key. In1898 the Supreme Court interpretted that in light of English Common law, saying only diplomats and foreign armies were not included. The dissenting opinion said we had broken from english common law. They also mentioned lack of assimilation. (In the United Kingdom one parent must be a citizen or legal resident.)
It makes more sense to me that illegals are not subject to our laws by the very fact that they broke our law to get here, so they shouldn't be granted "anchor baby" status, where they can bring their parents and other fmily members in once they reach 21. On the face of it it seems pretty absurd. I'd say we are not going by the constitution, but by this 1898 interpretation. Of course unless that is reversed or the amendment changed, that is the law.
Clearly the lack of assimilation is a large problem. A look at Los Angeles numbers and communities might give one pause on granting citizenship so freely, considering all the foreign families being "anchored" to US citizenship.
From an old Center for Immigration Studies page, "Michael Antonovich of the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors states that two-thirds of the births in Los Angeles county hospitals are to illegal aliens. Additionally, Mr. Antonovich notes that these children now account for 30 percent of all AFDC (Aid to Families with Dependent Children) cases in Los Angeles County."
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ChattyKathy
There is some wisdom in that idea, very interesting.
The name of the country escapes me now but I had a co-worker that described what she had to go thru to gain access for her parents to leave their country to come here for a visit. It was harder for them to get out of their country than it was to gain access into ours. I'm not sure what that tells us but I suspect something.
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Rocky
Must be REALLY old... because the AFDC program ceased to exist with enactment of the Welfare Reform Act of 1996... replaced with TANF (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families) Block Grants to states allowing the state (of California for example) to determine the structure of welfare assistance programs that followed... but Congress still established time limits on any given family's eligibility.
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templelady
TO expand on my idea about babies born in this country to illegals
I would be willing to agree that if their parents reentered this country legally and became citizens of the United States any children that had been born on United States soil would be United States citizens by birth not by naturalization --this means those children could grow up to be president.
And Yeah all those babies born to illegals with automatic citizenship--they can be president too
30-40 years from now do you want this country run by someone who was raised by people who believe that they should be allowed to ignore our laws while milking the system for all it is worth?????
Think it can't happen????
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CoolWaters
It already has happened...imo...and the opinion of many, many others...but it didn't happen because of illegal immigration...just other illegal stuff...
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HAPe4me
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Rocky
I coulda sworn you were describing the current prez (and his parents, nicer that they are then him)...
then, after I first posted THIS post, I read CW's and Hap's entries... so, I guess I'm not the only one who thought that.
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ChattyKathy
I don't know if I could add too much to this right now but I just had to get this off my chest.
Yesterday someone left me a message in another language at work. I understood nada of what she said. I deleted the message and have no intention of returning her call.
Then this morning bowtwi sent me the best email I've seen on this type thing. Which I will post now minus the pictures it included.
This is how ALL business phones SHOULD be answered!
GOOD MORNING, WELCOME TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Press "1" for English.
Press "2" to disconnect until you learn to speak English
And remember...
only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.
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CoolWaters
This email has been going around ever since the illegal war has been going on.
It is SHAMEFUL to describe the sending of young men and women to their death in an illegal war that basically boils down to, 'shouldn't have ph ucked with my daddy and our money' as dying for my freedom.
It is just plain emotional manipulation to make these young men and women be willing to die...and their mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, etc. be willing to send them to their deaths.
Toss in Jesus to make the manipulation sink in deep and feel like God has put His stamp of approval on it all.
VPW could only dream of running such a cult!
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ChattyKathy
CW,
I just love how you knew my intentions of that post.
And that you are so well versed in mine and my husband’s family of serving since WW2.
And of course there has only been one war in your and my life time so how could it have been anything other than related to Iraq.
As well we all Jesus Christ is completely confined to this war in Iraq only.
Thanks for the enlightenment!
Kathy
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Rocky
My thought... sure THIS war is a disasterous mistake... but THAT'S not the subject of this thread.
So, I'm not interested on this thread, in discussing the merits of the war in Iraq...
Kathy, I get your point on the email... of course, symbolically, it makes a good point. In practice, it might not be workable.
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templelady
Don't have to agree with this or any war to appreciate and applaud the courage and devotion of our men and women in the military who selflessly lay down their lives not only for this countries freedom but others as well.
Freedoms that enable our government to provide electricity, receive medical care, disability checks, food etc both those who are here illegally and those of our citizens who don't work, for whatever the reason, all with a minimum of government interference in their lives.
Which is the point of this thread --how we may need a little more interference to weed out the illegals who beneft from same--not to mention those of our own citizenry who milk the system--A topic I have stayed away from - since this is devoted to the Illegal problem in this country--Perhaps I need to start a companion thread on that subject--but need to head to work right now.
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