What a judgement. So I guess because I decided to get the education I have been deprived of since my high school graduation because my leadership thought I should "serve God" and couldn't do that in college, and since I have to work full time and manage to raise 3 children all by myself, and can't go out and do what this guy does for the churches of america I am not good enough in my stand for God.
That's a bunch of bull. No,,,, I don't even have a religious affliation, but I teach my kids what I know of God's Word and I talk to God regularly. Sorry we all don't have high energy levels and we all don't have the ability to do such "great things".
I guess old Uptown and his friend is better than us all. Sometimes people should think before the type.
*Not for Christians to read who may get upset and triggered and all that*
I will say some of what I truly think about statments like that.
I am so glad I don't believe in God anymore. That type of talk is nothing but condemnation and a pile of bull excrement to make people feel guilty and get moving. I was handed such tripe as that when I was in TWI...oh the way you live your life the first three months after your WOW year determines how you will live the rest of your life, blah blah.
I tell you (in general) what.
When your God gets off his butt and kids quit dying of cancer, all the predators die off of the earth and quit preying on kids and molesting them, good people quit dying and people quit exploiting, fleecing and hurting people in his name (not to mention the millions killed in the name of the Christian religion since it started) I may start doing something that these high and mightey self appointed judges would like. Until then, it is all pie in the sky, lucy in the sky with diamonds fluff anuther.
Until I will live my life like anyone else. Drug free and no booze either (not like some drambue heads I knew) working hard, paying my taxes and bills, helping out others and raising normal healthy kids.
Please don't give me the redeemed salavation spiel. It won't work or God is good, it's the devil's fault.
Belle, come sit here by me and have a glass of wine and let's think this thing over...
Shall we spend our time trying to defend our lives and the choices we've made to Mr. Go-Getter-By-Golly-I'm-a-Bringin'-Souls-To-The-Lord-Why-God-Sure-Is-Proud-Of-Me?
Naah, pass us those little spinach do-dads, will you Freeatlast and Full Circle? Can I pour you two a glass?
I'm currently working on the final details of a plan to provide the Northern Hemisphere with a renewable energy source by harnessing the power of 500,000,000,000 Amazing Sea Monkeys! who are even now gathering in saline tanks up and down the West Coast. Once this gets off the ground all of our energy needs will be handled. It's taken quite awhile to get this thing going, because believe me, it wasn't easy finding skilled Sea Monkey! herders and don't even get me started on the waste disposition aspect of this thing. But, it won't be long before it comes into fruition. I'm keeping it quiet for now, as I'd like it be a big surprise so please! sssshhhh! don't pass this around, okay? Other than that I keep busy following the carreers of American Idol Top 10 winners, something of a guilty pleasure I admit.
Gosh, I'm on my way to my brother's house to help sis-in-law choose between "golden blond" and "mirrored gold" paint for her family room. What a worthless life I live. :B)
I dont know who this person is to decide what is 'godly' and whats not...Everyone has their ownlife and their very own personal call to find that differs for everyone,
- It was a massive assumption in Waythink that everyone had to be pushed into a tiny mold forcing themselves to do things that they were ill equipped for and never meant to do in the first place.
The Way did much more to distort peoples genuine gifts than to develop them. To assume that people arent developing and using their own 'god given abilities' is a gross distortion and misperception. Ive been here for years now and there are many extremely gifted people here who are doing 'good' in many ways that a casual and quick judge newcomer will not understand
If it doesnt fit into someones preconceived notions of what they should be doing , or its not flashy or bombastic enough for someone-- who the heck cares? -- who made them the judge and jury?
No one
They just have an incredibly narrow view of whats worthy and whats not---so what?
t'aint worth getting upset over...
He can't even run his own life, I'll be damned if he'll run mine....
The Way did much more to distort peoples genuine gifts than to develop them. To assume that people aren't developing and using their own 'god given abilities' is a gross distortion and misperception.
Gosh, I'm on my way to my brother's house to help sis-in-law choose between "golden blond" and "mirrored gold" paint for her family room. What a worthless life I live. :B)
I admit it! I'm not doing much. I'm not witnessing daily(I no longer believe in witnessing.) None of the 5 daily basics, though my family's financial needs do require me to work 40 hr so I can give to them. Sometimes there's some left over for the food bank or katrina folk. I haven't done any Biblical research in years and don't feel a gap I don't follow a god who requires quotas or preformances...I'm not doing the Christian thing as taught in TWi at all.
What I am doing is working to see that my little circle--my family, myself, friends-- are where my best efforts, heart, strength and resources are put.
Belle, come sit here by me and have a glass of wine and let's think this thing over...
Shall we spend our time trying to defend our lives and the choices we've made to Mr. Go-Getter-By-Golly-I'm-a-Bringin'-Souls-To-The-Lord-Why-God-Sure-Is-Proud-Of-Me?
Naah, pass us those little spinach do-dads, will you Freeatlast and Full Circle? Can I pour you two a glass?
Sure, why not. Been a long time since I had a glass of anything. I will then regale you with the seeds I bought today and how I will grow them inside then take them outside to put in my porch planters. We can watch the grass grow.
You know, a most wonderful lady on my husband's side of the family died yesterday. She was only 54, cancer. She still has a daughter in high school. This woman worked, raised 6 children, never complained, always good natured, raised her own vegetables, worked part time to bring in a little extra cash. She never once complained about the pain she was in, or why her or anything. At the end they had to put shunts in her to relieve her of the excess fluid building up. Still no complaints. A remarkable woman and now she is gone. Stayed true to her family and her man. Most of the leadership in TWI and the offshoots could not hold a candle to her yet because of man made standards of self righteousness, she is counted for nothing and her accomplishments as nothing.
When life is honored, and where life is honored, the simpliest of acts, the tokens of kindness and the generousity of the soul can then be appreciated and seen it for the nobilness it is.
I'm with Excie... I thought Ex10 was talking about hair color!
Otherwise, I'm pretty much with Mstar -- WHO gives a flyin leap what that schmuck uptown thinks? I certainly don't.
I think I'm somewhere between not believing in God anymore and not doing anything for God. I retired early.
And even IF I were doing things "for God" I would NOT see a need to submit either those things or myself for some bozo to tell me whether he/she approves.
When life is honored, and where life is honored, the simpliest of acts, the tokens of kindness and the generousity of the soul can then be appreciated and seen it for the nobility it is.
Very nicely stated FullCircle... thanks for your insights and thoughtfulness.
They can sit with their beers and watch the paint dry. While they are there they can fellowship with like minded believers to justify their experience, and quote a verse or two so they can feel self righteous. Then the task will seem more worthwhile.
Tonto, pass me that glass of wine (well maybe a kalua and cream)
I'm sure there's always something more I could do – but when I recall a verse like
Colossians 3:23
Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men…
A few things come to mind…it doesn't specify how much I do – or what I do. It does say WHATEVER I do…and it specifies that I do it for the Lord! So I'm to the point in my life where I don't care about the agenda of any wannabe revivalist – what they think I should do…I think there's a lot to be said for raising a family and making an honest living and…and…and…and that's it! Funny isn't it. TWI was into getting followers out there doing busy work to maintain and increase the ranks – and so marriages, families and careers suffered due to neglect…This is silly. What does that say about what TWI thinks is important? Wow – what an important mission: I must go out into the world and find somebody who I can convince that there's more important things in life than their marriage, family or career. There's the mission I'm on…"Oh that's just another one of those pyramid schemes," you say. Ah, but it's a human pyramid.
Who the he11 appointed a stranger to worry about what I'm doing with my life?
Yeah, we laughed, we cried, we hugged and got all spiritual back then. That was then and contrary to what VPW and his minions would have us believe, I'm free now. I spent about 10 years trying to pretend that I was "blessed" "moving the Word" when all I ever wanted to do was to build things. Well, that's what I do now and I do it well. Me and my little band of happy misfits designed, build, tested, sold and shipped 7500 industrial computers last year and *that's* what I was born to do.
Well, re-reading Updown's posts again, on face value, it's faceitious and arrogant to poke someone and say "how's about doing some time for God?"
If someone walked up to me on the street and asked me what was I doing with my time for God, my answer would be "staying away from you".
The real question is better stated "You're not doing anything for God. Are you?"
There's a kind of fantasy that all the people in the Way were destined to do great things, turn the world upside down and create a bold new life because....because, why? Because of a false expectation that "that's what God wants". He wants a tribe of entrepnuerial geeks and window washers to act like they've reinvented genius in His Name.
The suggestion that the majority of Wayfers or ex-Wayfers were called to be pastors of churches (because they attended and hopefully stayed awake for some class) is what causes the Way and it's subsequent splinter groups to fall flat on their faces in failure. That is NOT what all Christians are supposed to do and expecting that everyone will fulifill that kind of function is stupid and non-biblical. Nothing in the bible suggests that and it's wrong and presumptuous and destructive to lay that on people's conscience.
In fact, it would be better if most people simply lived their lives to the best extent and purpose they determine for themselves, doing good as they can, being good parents, spouses, workers, friends and members of their local communities.
As Christians we have one life we want to focus on improving and changing - our own. That's the only one I have any reasonable amount of control over. Once we have a handle on that we're qualified to offer some advice to others. In the meantime, a little humility goes a long way. God resists the proud, who are usually sickeningly insistent in their endeavors.
Real churches honor real accomplishment - people that stay married if they get married, conduct their business honestly, have fruitful relationships, raise successful families and make honest contributions to help others.
It's no surprise to me that all the strident self-pumped so-called "Ministers" have trouble doing simple things like that when they're more concerned about solving everyone else's problems instead of their own.
Luke was a physician. I remember when the way corps became "full time ministers" the ones who were in the medical profession had to chose between being Way Corps or a Doctor. Many left their professions. How harmful to the body. Luke the physician was one of the writers of the word of God. We can serve God right were we are in our own spheres of influence. Not everyone has the gift of Evangelism. it's so Way Brained to think everyone should forsake all to do works.
I will reiterate what others have said. it's the heart God looks at not our works. This guy and his bs has really irked me.
As usual a great post Socks on all points--thanks!
This had me rolling out of my chair
Because of a false expectation that "that's what God wants". He wants a tribe of entrepnuerial geeks and window washers to act like they've reinvented genius in His Name.
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FreeAtLast
What a judgement. So I guess because I decided to get the education I have been deprived of since my high school graduation because my leadership thought I should "serve God" and couldn't do that in college, and since I have to work full time and manage to raise 3 children all by myself, and can't go out and do what this guy does for the churches of america I am not good enough in my stand for God.
That's a bunch of bull. No,,,, I don't even have a religious affliation, but I teach my kids what I know of God's Word and I talk to God regularly. Sorry we all don't have high energy levels and we all don't have the ability to do such "great things".
I guess old Uptown and his friend is better than us all. Sometimes people should think before the type.
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FullCircle
*Not for Christians to read who may get upset and triggered and all that*
I will say some of what I truly think about statments like that.
I am so glad I don't believe in God anymore. That type of talk is nothing but condemnation and a pile of bull excrement to make people feel guilty and get moving. I was handed such tripe as that when I was in TWI...oh the way you live your life the first three months after your WOW year determines how you will live the rest of your life, blah blah.
I tell you (in general) what.
When your God gets off his butt and kids quit dying of cancer, all the predators die off of the earth and quit preying on kids and molesting them, good people quit dying and people quit exploiting, fleecing and hurting people in his name (not to mention the millions killed in the name of the Christian religion since it started) I may start doing something that these high and mightey self appointed judges would like. Until then, it is all pie in the sky, lucy in the sky with diamonds fluff anuther.
Until I will live my life like anyone else. Drug free and no booze either (not like some drambue heads I knew) working hard, paying my taxes and bills, helping out others and raising normal healthy kids.
Please don't give me the redeemed salavation spiel. It won't work or God is good, it's the devil's fault.
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tonto
Belle, come sit here by me and have a glass of wine and let's think this thing over...
Shall we spend our time trying to defend our lives and the choices we've made to Mr. Go-Getter-By-Golly-I'm-a-Bringin'-Souls-To-The-Lord-Why-God-Sure-Is-Proud-Of-Me?
Naah, pass us those little spinach do-dads, will you Freeatlast and Full Circle? Can I pour you two a glass?
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excathedra
great post full circle except maybe for the booze ;)
ps. i just went over 14,500 posts
do i get money when i hit 15,000 ?
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socks
I'm currently working on the final details of a plan to provide the Northern Hemisphere with a renewable energy source by harnessing the power of 500,000,000,000 Amazing Sea Monkeys! who are even now gathering in saline tanks up and down the West Coast. Once this gets off the ground all of our energy needs will be handled. It's taken quite awhile to get this thing going, because believe me, it wasn't easy finding skilled Sea Monkey! herders and don't even get me started on the waste disposition aspect of this thing. But, it won't be long before it comes into fruition. I'm keeping it quiet for now, as I'd like it be a big surprise so please! sssshhhh! don't pass this around, okay? Other than that I keep busy following the carreers of American Idol Top 10 winners, something of a guilty pleasure I admit.
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excathedra
i would be blessed to see a sea monkey win american idol
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socks
You've been peeking, excella!!! Don't let all the goodies out of the bag yet!!
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ex10
Gosh, I'm on my way to my brother's house to help sis-in-law choose between "golden blond" and "mirrored gold" paint for her family room. What a worthless life I live. :B)
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excathedra
gee i thought you were talking about her HAIR !!!! now that would be worth something
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ex10
oh gosh, sis ex, the only hair color worth dyeing for, is "sunlight gold." :)
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mstar1
I dont know who this person is to decide what is 'godly' and whats not...Everyone has their ownlife and their very own personal call to find that differs for everyone,
- It was a massive assumption in Waythink that everyone had to be pushed into a tiny mold forcing themselves to do things that they were ill equipped for and never meant to do in the first place.
The Way did much more to distort peoples genuine gifts than to develop them. To assume that people arent developing and using their own 'god given abilities' is a gross distortion and misperception. Ive been here for years now and there are many extremely gifted people here who are doing 'good' in many ways that a casual and quick judge newcomer will not understand
If it doesnt fit into someones preconceived notions of what they should be doing , or its not flashy or bombastic enough for someone-- who the heck cares? -- who made them the judge and jury?
No one
They just have an incredibly narrow view of whats worthy and whats not---so what?
t'aint worth getting upset over...
He can't even run his own life, I'll be damned if he'll run mine....
Sunshine!
Jonathan Edwards
14, 500?
How can anyone say you do nothing?
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dmiller
Amen!!!
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dmiller
Ex10 -- Nawwww. It might be worthless if ---
they invite you over to watch the paint dry,
and you having nothing better to do,
accept the invitation!!
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Bramble
I admit it! I'm not doing much. I'm not witnessing daily(I no longer believe in witnessing.) None of the 5 daily basics, though my family's financial needs do require me to work 40 hr so I can give to them. Sometimes there's some left over for the food bank or katrina folk. I haven't done any Biblical research in years and don't feel a gap I don't follow a god who requires quotas or preformances...I'm not doing the Christian thing as taught in TWi at all.
What I am doing is working to see that my little circle--my family, myself, friends-- are where my best efforts, heart, strength and resources are put.
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FullCircle
Sure, why not. Been a long time since I had a glass of anything. I will then regale you with the seeds I bought today and how I will grow them inside then take them outside to put in my porch planters. We can watch the grass grow.
You know, a most wonderful lady on my husband's side of the family died yesterday. She was only 54, cancer. She still has a daughter in high school. This woman worked, raised 6 children, never complained, always good natured, raised her own vegetables, worked part time to bring in a little extra cash. She never once complained about the pain she was in, or why her or anything. At the end they had to put shunts in her to relieve her of the excess fluid building up. Still no complaints. A remarkable woman and now she is gone. Stayed true to her family and her man. Most of the leadership in TWI and the offshoots could not hold a candle to her yet because of man made standards of self righteousness, she is counted for nothing and her accomplishments as nothing.
When life is honored, and where life is honored, the simpliest of acts, the tokens of kindness and the generousity of the soul can then be appreciated and seen it for the nobilness it is.
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Rocky
I'm with Excie... I thought Ex10 was talking about hair color!
Otherwise, I'm pretty much with Mstar -- WHO gives a flyin leap what that schmuck uptown thinks? I certainly don't.
I think I'm somewhere between not believing in God anymore and not doing anything for God. I retired early.
And even IF I were doing things "for God" I would NOT see a need to submit either those things or myself for some bozo to tell me whether he/she approves.
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Rocky
Very nicely stated FullCircle... thanks for your insights and thoughtfulness.
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FreeAtLast
dmiller:
They can sit with their beers and watch the paint dry. While they are there they can fellowship with like minded believers to justify their experience, and quote a verse or two so they can feel self righteous. Then the task will seem more worthwhile.
Tonto, pass me that glass of wine (well maybe a kalua and cream)
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T-Bone
I'm sure there's always something more I could do – but when I recall a verse like
Colossians 3:23
Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men…
A few things come to mind…it doesn't specify how much I do – or what I do. It does say WHATEVER I do…and it specifies that I do it for the Lord! So I'm to the point in my life where I don't care about the agenda of any wannabe revivalist – what they think I should do…I think there's a lot to be said for raising a family and making an honest living and…and…and…and that's it! Funny isn't it. TWI was into getting followers out there doing busy work to maintain and increase the ranks – and so marriages, families and careers suffered due to neglect…This is silly. What does that say about what TWI thinks is important? Wow – what an important mission: I must go out into the world and find somebody who I can convince that there's more important things in life than their marriage, family or career. There's the mission I'm on…"Oh that's just another one of those pyramid schemes," you say. Ah, but it's a human pyramid.
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doojable
NEVER underestimate what it does for God to raise children, live a life honestly, and care for people with compassion.
Remember the widow's mite? God looks at the heart. Therefore, I'm not going to stand judgement before anyone looking at my works.
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Jim
Who the he11 appointed a stranger to worry about what I'm doing with my life?
Yeah, we laughed, we cried, we hugged and got all spiritual back then. That was then and contrary to what VPW and his minions would have us believe, I'm free now. I spent about 10 years trying to pretend that I was "blessed" "moving the Word" when all I ever wanted to do was to build things. Well, that's what I do now and I do it well. Me and my little band of happy misfits designed, build, tested, sold and shipped 7500 industrial computers last year and *that's* what I was born to do.
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socks
Well, re-reading Updown's posts again, on face value, it's faceitious and arrogant to poke someone and say "how's about doing some time for God?"
If someone walked up to me on the street and asked me what was I doing with my time for God, my answer would be "staying away from you".
The real question is better stated "You're not doing anything for God. Are you?"
There's a kind of fantasy that all the people in the Way were destined to do great things, turn the world upside down and create a bold new life because....because, why? Because of a false expectation that "that's what God wants". He wants a tribe of entrepnuerial geeks and window washers to act like they've reinvented genius in His Name.
The suggestion that the majority of Wayfers or ex-Wayfers were called to be pastors of churches (because they attended and hopefully stayed awake for some class) is what causes the Way and it's subsequent splinter groups to fall flat on their faces in failure. That is NOT what all Christians are supposed to do and expecting that everyone will fulifill that kind of function is stupid and non-biblical. Nothing in the bible suggests that and it's wrong and presumptuous and destructive to lay that on people's conscience.
In fact, it would be better if most people simply lived their lives to the best extent and purpose they determine for themselves, doing good as they can, being good parents, spouses, workers, friends and members of their local communities.
As Christians we have one life we want to focus on improving and changing - our own. That's the only one I have any reasonable amount of control over. Once we have a handle on that we're qualified to offer some advice to others. In the meantime, a little humility goes a long way. God resists the proud, who are usually sickeningly insistent in their endeavors.
Real churches honor real accomplishment - people that stay married if they get married, conduct their business honestly, have fruitful relationships, raise successful families and make honest contributions to help others.
It's no surprise to me that all the strident self-pumped so-called "Ministers" have trouble doing simple things like that when they're more concerned about solving everyone else's problems instead of their own.
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FreeAtLast
Luke was a physician. I remember when the way corps became "full time ministers" the ones who were in the medical profession had to chose between being Way Corps or a Doctor. Many left their professions. How harmful to the body. Luke the physician was one of the writers of the word of God. We can serve God right were we are in our own spheres of influence. Not everyone has the gift of Evangelism. it's so Way Brained to think everyone should forsake all to do works.
I will reiterate what others have said. it's the heart God looks at not our works. This guy and his bs has really irked me.
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mstar1
As usual a great post Socks on all points--thanks!
This had me rolling out of my chair
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