I am a newbie here, and must say that I've not only enjoyed wandering through, but have found much help in sorting through some of the fallout of my involvement with twi.
Back to topic: I met my 2 best friends while "in", and we've all been out since 1987. The following quote says it all:
Be courteous to all but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence; true friendship is a plant of slow growth, and must undergo and withstand the shocks of adversity before it is entitled to appellation.
~George Washington, letter, Jan. 15, 1783
Welcome to GRSC Cinderpelt! :)
Come often and enjoy all that our hearts have to give!
TWI 1 - absolutely! I still keep in touch with many of them. When we stayed in TWI and so many of our friends left - we REFUSED to mark and avoid anyone. Friends are friends are friends.
TWI 2 - nope - none - zero. I don't think there's a person I encountered in TWI 2 that I was interested in making a friend (oops! - Except for Belle).
Waydale & GS - I've made several friends I've never met. I wouldn't know them if I walked by them on the street. I love them dearly and hope someday to see them face to face!
My best friend is a woman named Barb who I met when our 20 year olds were in Kindergarten. She never heard of TWI until she met me. Trying to explain things to her is like trying to teach her a foreign language.
For example: when I say to an ex-Way friend, "I was a WOW in Texas during the 4000 for the 40th year" - they know what I'm talking about. When I say it to my NBW* friend it has to come with a lengthly explanation - it has to be translated!
xoxox
Hope
*nbw= never been way
PS: Sushi - "A true friend stabs you in the front!" - Oscar Wilde
For example: when I say to an ex-Way friend, "I was a WOW in Texas during the 4000 for the 40th year" - they know what I'm talking about. When I say it to my NBW* friend it has to come with a lengthly explanation - it has to be translated!
Yup, aint that a fact...needs to be translated. Hehehe That's funny in a sad sort of way.
Friends, yes I had/have a few. I count quite a few people as friends that I may not see again until the gathering, but I still love them and know that they also love me. My parents were true friends, cant say the same about my brother.
I've met some wonderful folks here on GS that I consider friends and I "hope" (does anyone else have to almost force themselves to use that word?) to meet a few more.
Cinderpelt-Welcome to the Spot. Sit back and enjoy yourself. If you need anything do not hesitate to ask.
As for good friends - I have a few from twi - REAL friends... and as was mentioned previously, we were the ones in the shadows, the ones who did question things and THINK.
And thinking led to independence... So when the poop came down the chute and one of us got smeared, we were able to tell it was not true - we had the deep relationship of really KNOWING each other. Any accusations leveled at us were not taken seriously by the others.
At one point (and a couple of people here know exactly what I am talking about) some of us were told to not be around the other individual because we "fed on each others' negativity." Funny, since two of the people involved were members of each other's immediate family! Nope, they were not to be allowed to be alone together.
At another point, I was separated from all my friends in a "mini-spiritual probation." Didn't work. They kept showing up at my house anyway. I couldn't have stopped them if I tried. They pretty much said that they thought the whole thing was stupid and asked me if I wanted a beer. They are still part of twi.
And my oldest friend will never leave me. We've known each other for the majority of our lives. I got her involved with twi. She and I reason together often. We were in each other's weddings, and I was at the birth of her child. We rely on each other, we confide in each other, and I would willingly place my life in her hands.
Why? Because we share the deep things of life with each other - the good and the bad. That's what friends do.
twi did a lot to divide people, to keep them apart. It has happened with all of the real friends I have had in twi - but the friendships stood up to the problems. I know I could call any of them today if I needed them and they would be there for me.
Divisions among people in twi are encouraged in a lot of ways - "don't confess negatives," "what is the profit of this conversation?" to name a couple... and here's a few other ways it happened - moving people constantly, fostering a paranoid attitude towards others (sometimes needed to survive), over-spiritualizing problems, and basically keeping people involved in a lot of time-wasting OCD tasks so they couldn't interact with others unless it was in a fellowship setting where it could be monitored.
Sick people.
But yes, I have good friends from twi. True friends. People are people no matter where you go - you end up with some gems, some rocks, and some crap... you just have to look really hard for the keepers, and then make the effort to keep them.
We have some friends who still talk to us from TWI 1, none from TWI 2. Some of our good friends stayed in when we left and the friendship fizzled. The dividing line usually was our children. Most of the people knew how to point fingers at them but nobody had any suggestions for what would bring them deliverance.
A friend is someone who likes you. (That is the title of a book that was belittled in twi. Now in retrospect, I think the book is accurate.)
nottawayfer -- I am praying your friend gets the blinders off and gets out of twi so she can see what a treasure you (and others) still are.
I have had friends who thought I was worthy of "mark and avoid" as long as they remained in twi, but the friendship was renewed once again when they got out of twi, too.
As long as someone is still alive I continue to pray for them as a friend (I think that's what Jesus does) :)
We thought we had true friends when we were involved with twi.
We left twi, and the leadership made up all kinds of lies about us.
They all fell for it.
Not one has called us since we left (except a few who also left after we did)
We were left out in the cold.
What a devilish bunch.
I guess they weren't true friends after all.
I keep in mind how many people I thought evil of because they left "The Way." And then it helps me to keep quiet my arrogant disdainful judgmental attitude towards people who were my friends and who still reside in the twi mindset.
I also remember Jesus' words from the cross, "Forgive them father for they know not what they do," which pretty much covers all kinds of ill treatment towards me.
(I got booted out in 1995, so I was 8 years of thinking that all those who left in the pop and loyalty times were the ones deceived.)
wowza... I'm not ignoring your post... you are right... we had NO friends when it came to the word... even those IN THE WORD...
you never knew when your best friend in TWI could turn on you...so you walked around, being oh so careful and very very on guard as to whom you'd open up to or be with, since you never quite knew where you stood with your supposed friends. One day you could be having a marvelous time, the next they could turn on you like a viper, or better yet, the MOGs could make some statement about your friend and their spirituality coining them possessed and unfit for human existence.
My experience with 'friendship' in TWI was basically this: Hang out, be friends, get close, share hearts, friend becomes more LOYAL to TWI and their agendas, friend snitches on you for 'sharing negative things', you are brought to an inquisition type 'meeting', you remain 'friends' with your so called friend and tell yourself "They did it because they loved ME", you spend the rest of your time NEVER trusting that human again and slowly walk away from the friendship.
sad sad sad pathetically sad that I stayed so long and ate that S.H.I.T.!
Kit,
GREAT point... I ditched many many many people in TWI after the P.O.P. ... pretty much turned them over to the 'devil'! How Christian of me!
it took years to shake and Im still working heavy on it. it is hard to explain but it was like every person had the capacity to have an EVil devil spirt that would turn and "be out of fellowship" be evil etc.
and bible verses were used to beat one another up about who we were!
no one was ever good enough. and some well hell yeah they were just better because they had "stood" in the ministry for years.
above reproach or any saying anything negative about.
it was such a cult.
today I recognize we didnt trust God at all.
Jesus told the twelve not to marvel at the fact devil spirits obeyed them etc.. but to rejoice we have a place in the kingdom.
Well plenty of marveling over devil spirits in twi.
the mark and avoid taught fear well that is the devil run run get away we do not like you!
and it was fear . fear of people.
fear we could catch a devil and never be helped or even loved by the "TRUE" God ever again.
it doesnt make much sense to me today.
God knows what I deal with in life Jesus calls us "friends".
we are not strnagers to them.. yet when push came to shove twi taught us to hide not stand. isolate and hide because mankind is evil and we might get involved and not be able to escape!
it is hysterical to me now, but still in times of stress I fall into the thinking that people are out to get me once again.
...yet when push came to shove twi taught us to hide not stand. isolate and hide because mankind is evil and we might get involved and not be able to escape!
Oh god... all these thoughts came flooding back to me when you posted this. Oh that fear of the 'WORLD' and its evils. Holy shmoly... what a place to be in my head! I remember having those fears. People out to get me, the devil sitting there, working through those corporate monsters, through my family, my neighbours, my old man friends, through my co-workers...lurking... all pawns working for the devil...unbeknownst to them of course...but nevertheless...all pawns! And the devil's goal...to work through these people in order to rip that WORD right from under you.
OH GOD... what paranoia :unsure:
Pond...it will come... with time and knowing you can trust again. You will find that peace.
GREAT point... I ditched many many many people in TWI after the P.O.P. ... pretty much turned them over to the 'devil'! How Christian of me!
Hiya ala!
As I said in an earlier post - I was determined that the friends I had in TWI would always remain my friends - in or out.... however....
We were ditched by more people who couldn't stand the fact we stayed in TWI after they'd left. Most of them were involved with a CG ministry, but a few others just cut us off for no reason. We weren't trying to convince them to come back, we never preached how great everything was (because it wasn't), we never "witnessed" to them. There was no reason to sever what we thought was a friendship at the time.
There are still folks we run into from time to time who used to be in our twig years ago! When we were still in TWI, they simply nodded at us - acknowledging the fact that they recognized us! When they found out we'd left, they actually said hello and asked how we were. Coulda knocked me over with a feather!
I stayed close to a few friends who left long before I did. We're still close. They loved me for who I was and it didn't matter what "church" I attended. I felt the same way about them.
Here is a very old poem I read when I was in elementary school. It has stayed with me for many years. To me, this is what being a true friend really is:
FRIENDSHIP
Dinah Maria Mulock Craik (1826-1887)
from A Life for a Life
Oh, the comfort—
the inexpressible comfort of feeling safe with a person—
having neither to weigh thoughts nor measure words,
but pouring them all right out,
just as they are,
chaff and grain together;
certain that a faithful hand will take and sift them,
keep what is worth keeping,
and then with the breath of kindness blow the rest away.
After 20+ twi-only years and then getting booted in 1995 => no-friends-land
I truly thought I had no friends outside of twi, and did not cultivate any, including my natural family.
The people I thought were "tripped out" (who left prior) I tried to be friends with, but they didn't trust me.
Those still in of course didn't want me around.
I did have one friend from childhood who still is my friend.
I did start to go to other churches and had some fun there. It was terrific learning that Christians did exist outside of twi.
WayDale / Greasespot Cafe were/are major lifelines for me. I've been able to apologize to those I offended, and a couple of come-backs of apology as well.
In a sense, I wonder if "true friends" is even a realistic expectation from anybody..
I just haven't seen it..
I'd like to restate this..
after seeing this demanded by one "leader" after another.. they'd come to the area, of course you were supposed to help them move, with chores, with.. everything. Watch the kids for them while they are going to corps night, or whatever..
but the friendship was not mutual. They "owed" you nothing.. but reproof, or criticism..
but you "owed" them.
I remember the last couple here I dealt with. Before the big move out to one of the campuses, they could not sell everything, for the price that they really wanted out of it.. somehow, "believers" were "given the opportunity" to buy this junk..
Mrs. "Wonderful" was FURIOUS with the thought that they might have to give any of the crap away.. and most of it was GIVEN to them..
unbelievable.
No matter how much TRUE love and care people gave these sycophants, they did not change.
I've dealt with one scam after another..
right or not, I've learned not to expect anything..
In the second half of the nineties, friendships were not "allowed". I remember Mrs. "Wonderful" being so suspicious, so jealous if some ot the ladies here spent time with the other women in the fellowship other than herself. This "wonderful" person went out of her way to break bonds between people.
In the second half of the nineties, friendships were not "allowed".
Yeah...........around 1996 the corps were told to have NO friendships with those in their area, no "hanging out
with those you are 'leading'". The martindale-policy was one of control and intimidation. If it wasn't a ministry function, then what the he11 were you doing anyway?
Everything was moving towards micro-management and control. Under martindale rule, twi2 was a "follow your leader, don't ask questions, I own you" type of fear-fellowship. True legalism wrapped in the phrases like the present truth and weakness always brings down strength.
I must say, I have made some friends here, one or three, that I'm pretty sure I will keep forever. :wub: And the greatness of it all is, I can tell them how I feel about lotza different things in life, and most importantly, how I feel about them in particular.
There's something really freeing about being able to say, "Gosh, I am so glad I know you, and you are my friend."
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RainbowsGirl
Very well put Waysider! Thank you!
We have so many dear friends from TWI. all across this land...although distant very close to my heart! Without their
friendship and love I probably would be lost and wandering aimlessly ..in the sense that I learned so much from them all and
finally grew up!
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RainbowsGirl
Welcome to GRSC Cinderpelt! :)
Come often and enjoy all that our hearts have to give!
Love You, RainbowsGirl
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Hope R.
TWI 1 - absolutely! I still keep in touch with many of them. When we stayed in TWI and so many of our friends left - we REFUSED to mark and avoid anyone. Friends are friends are friends.
TWI 2 - nope - none - zero. I don't think there's a person I encountered in TWI 2 that I was interested in making a friend (oops! - Except for Belle).
Waydale & GS - I've made several friends I've never met. I wouldn't know them if I walked by them on the street. I love them dearly and hope someday to see them face to face!
My best friend is a woman named Barb who I met when our 20 year olds were in Kindergarten. She never heard of TWI until she met me. Trying to explain things to her is like trying to teach her a foreign language.
For example: when I say to an ex-Way friend, "I was a WOW in Texas during the 4000 for the 40th year" - they know what I'm talking about. When I say it to my NBW* friend it has to come with a lengthly explanation - it has to be translated!
xoxox
Hope
*nbw= never been way
PS: Sushi - "A true friend stabs you in the front!" - Oscar Wilde
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waysider
Cinderpelt
Nothing profound to add.
Just wanted to say:
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Eyesopen
Yup, aint that a fact...needs to be translated. Hehehe That's funny in a sad sort of way.
Friends, yes I had/have a few. I count quite a few people as friends that I may not see again until the gathering, but I still love them and know that they also love me. My parents were true friends, cant say the same about my brother.
I've met some wonderful folks here on GS that I consider friends and I "hope" (does anyone else have to almost force themselves to use that word?) to meet a few more.
Cinderpelt-Welcome to the Spot. Sit back and enjoy yourself. If you need anything do not hesitate to ask.
Love ya'll
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JavaJane
Hi, Cinder!!
As for good friends - I have a few from twi - REAL friends... and as was mentioned previously, we were the ones in the shadows, the ones who did question things and THINK.
And thinking led to independence... So when the poop came down the chute and one of us got smeared, we were able to tell it was not true - we had the deep relationship of really KNOWING each other. Any accusations leveled at us were not taken seriously by the others.
At one point (and a couple of people here know exactly what I am talking about) some of us were told to not be around the other individual because we "fed on each others' negativity." Funny, since two of the people involved were members of each other's immediate family! Nope, they were not to be allowed to be alone together.
At another point, I was separated from all my friends in a "mini-spiritual probation." Didn't work. They kept showing up at my house anyway. I couldn't have stopped them if I tried. They pretty much said that they thought the whole thing was stupid and asked me if I wanted a beer. They are still part of twi.
And my oldest friend will never leave me. We've known each other for the majority of our lives. I got her involved with twi. She and I reason together often. We were in each other's weddings, and I was at the birth of her child. We rely on each other, we confide in each other, and I would willingly place my life in her hands.
Why? Because we share the deep things of life with each other - the good and the bad. That's what friends do.
twi did a lot to divide people, to keep them apart. It has happened with all of the real friends I have had in twi - but the friendships stood up to the problems. I know I could call any of them today if I needed them and they would be there for me.
Divisions among people in twi are encouraged in a lot of ways - "don't confess negatives," "what is the profit of this conversation?" to name a couple... and here's a few other ways it happened - moving people constantly, fostering a paranoid attitude towards others (sometimes needed to survive), over-spiritualizing problems, and basically keeping people involved in a lot of time-wasting OCD tasks so they couldn't interact with others unless it was in a fellowship setting where it could be monitored.
Sick people.
But yes, I have good friends from twi. True friends. People are people no matter where you go - you end up with some gems, some rocks, and some crap... you just have to look really hard for the keepers, and then make the effort to keep them.
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Bolshevik
We have no friends when it comes to God and His Word.
Even less when it comes to twi and its leadership.
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Jeaniam
We have some friends who still talk to us from TWI 1, none from TWI 2. Some of our good friends stayed in when we left and the friendship fizzled. The dividing line usually was our children. Most of the people knew how to point fingers at them but nobody had any suggestions for what would bring them deliverance.
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George Aar
I had one once -
at least I thought I did...
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Kit Sober
A friend is someone who likes you. (That is the title of a book that was belittled in twi. Now in retrospect, I think the book is accurate.)
nottawayfer -- I am praying your friend gets the blinders off and gets out of twi so she can see what a treasure you (and others) still are.
I have had friends who thought I was worthy of "mark and avoid" as long as they remained in twi, but the friendship was renewed once again when they got out of twi, too.
As long as someone is still alive I continue to pray for them as a friend (I think that's what Jesus does) :)
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polar bear
We thought we had true friends when we were involved with twi.
We left twi, and the leadership made up all kinds of lies about us.
They all fell for it.
Not one has called us since we left (except a few who also left after we did)
We were left out in the cold.
What a devilish bunch.
I guess they weren't true friends after all.
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Kit Sober
I also remember Jesus' words from the cross, "Forgive them father for they know not what they do," which pretty much covers all kinds of ill treatment towards me.
(I got booted out in 1995, so I was 8 years of thinking that all those who left in the pop and loyalty times were the ones deceived.)
in hope,
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Ham
In a sense, I wonder if "true friends" is even a realistic expectation from anybody..
I just haven't seen it..
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frank123lol
Remember we were in a cult that said"I have no friends when it comes to the word"
Of course the head honcho said it we imitated it.
Talk about disfunctioal!How can you have fellowship friendship if you cannot trust anyone?
I know this post will be ignored,
At least I have made friends outside the cult.
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waysider
Frank123lol
Why do you feel your post will be ignored?
I think you packed a whole bunch of insight into 5 short lines.
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A la prochaine
Frank,
wowza... I'm not ignoring your post... you are right... we had NO friends when it came to the word... even those IN THE WORD...
you never knew when your best friend in TWI could turn on you...so you walked around, being oh so careful and very very on guard as to whom you'd open up to or be with, since you never quite knew where you stood with your supposed friends. One day you could be having a marvelous time, the next they could turn on you like a viper, or better yet, the MOGs could make some statement about your friend and their spirituality coining them possessed and unfit for human existence.
My experience with 'friendship' in TWI was basically this: Hang out, be friends, get close, share hearts, friend becomes more LOYAL to TWI and their agendas, friend snitches on you for 'sharing negative things', you are brought to an inquisition type 'meeting', you remain 'friends' with your so called friend and tell yourself "They did it because they loved ME", you spend the rest of your time NEVER trusting that human again and slowly walk away from the friendship.
sad sad sad pathetically sad that I stayed so long and ate that S.H.I.T.!
Kit,
GREAT point... I ditched many many many people in TWI after the P.O.P. ... pretty much turned them over to the 'devil'! How Christian of me!
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pond
lol
wow I love this forum
the Way taught me to be paranoid!
it took years to shake and Im still working heavy on it. it is hard to explain but it was like every person had the capacity to have an EVil devil spirt that would turn and "be out of fellowship" be evil etc.
and bible verses were used to beat one another up about who we were!
no one was ever good enough. and some well hell yeah they were just better because they had "stood" in the ministry for years.
above reproach or any saying anything negative about.
it was such a cult.
today I recognize we didnt trust God at all.
Jesus told the twelve not to marvel at the fact devil spirits obeyed them etc.. but to rejoice we have a place in the kingdom.
Well plenty of marveling over devil spirits in twi.
the mark and avoid taught fear well that is the devil run run get away we do not like you!
and it was fear . fear of people.
fear we could catch a devil and never be helped or even loved by the "TRUE" God ever again.
it doesnt make much sense to me today.
God knows what I deal with in life Jesus calls us "friends".
we are not strnagers to them.. yet when push came to shove twi taught us to hide not stand. isolate and hide because mankind is evil and we might get involved and not be able to escape!
it is hysterical to me now, but still in times of stress I fall into the thinking that people are out to get me once again.
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A la prochaine
Pond,
Oh god... all these thoughts came flooding back to me when you posted this. Oh that fear of the 'WORLD' and its evils. Holy shmoly... what a place to be in my head! I remember having those fears. People out to get me, the devil sitting there, working through those corporate monsters, through my family, my neighbours, my old man friends, through my co-workers...lurking... all pawns working for the devil...unbeknownst to them of course...but nevertheless...all pawns! And the devil's goal...to work through these people in order to rip that WORD right from under you.
OH GOD... what paranoia :unsure:
Pond...it will come... with time and knowing you can trust again. You will find that peace.
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Hope R.
Hiya ala!
As I said in an earlier post - I was determined that the friends I had in TWI would always remain my friends - in or out.... however....
We were ditched by more people who couldn't stand the fact we stayed in TWI after they'd left. Most of them were involved with a CG ministry, but a few others just cut us off for no reason. We weren't trying to convince them to come back, we never preached how great everything was (because it wasn't), we never "witnessed" to them. There was no reason to sever what we thought was a friendship at the time.
There are still folks we run into from time to time who used to be in our twig years ago! When we were still in TWI, they simply nodded at us - acknowledging the fact that they recognized us! When they found out we'd left, they actually said hello and asked how we were. Coulda knocked me over with a feather!
I stayed close to a few friends who left long before I did. We're still close. They loved me for who I was and it didn't matter what "church" I attended. I felt the same way about them.
Here is a very old poem I read when I was in elementary school. It has stayed with me for many years. To me, this is what being a true friend really is:
FRIENDSHIP
Dinah Maria Mulock Craik (1826-1887)
from A Life for a Life
Oh, the comfort—
the inexpressible comfort of feeling safe with a person—
having neither to weigh thoughts nor measure words,
but pouring them all right out,
just as they are,
chaff and grain together;
certain that a faithful hand will take and sift them,
keep what is worth keeping,
and then with the breath of kindness blow the rest away.
xoxox
Hope
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Kit Sober
After 20+ twi-only years and then getting booted in 1995 => no-friends-land
I truly thought I had no friends outside of twi, and did not cultivate any, including my natural family.
The people I thought were "tripped out" (who left prior) I tried to be friends with, but they didn't trust me.
Those still in of course didn't want me around.
I did have one friend from childhood who still is my friend.
I did start to go to other churches and had some fun there. It was terrific learning that Christians did exist outside of twi.
WayDale / Greasespot Cafe were/are major lifelines for me. I've been able to apologize to those I offended, and a couple of come-backs of apology as well.
Thanks, again Pawtucket!!!!!
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Ham
I'd like to restate this..
after seeing this demanded by one "leader" after another.. they'd come to the area, of course you were supposed to help them move, with chores, with.. everything. Watch the kids for them while they are going to corps night, or whatever..
but the friendship was not mutual. They "owed" you nothing.. but reproof, or criticism..
but you "owed" them.
I remember the last couple here I dealt with. Before the big move out to one of the campuses, they could not sell everything, for the price that they really wanted out of it.. somehow, "believers" were "given the opportunity" to buy this junk..
Mrs. "Wonderful" was FURIOUS with the thought that they might have to give any of the crap away.. and most of it was GIVEN to them..
unbelievable.
No matter how much TRUE love and care people gave these sycophants, they did not change.
I've dealt with one scam after another..
right or not, I've learned not to expect anything..
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Ham
In the second half of the nineties, friendships were not "allowed". I remember Mrs. "Wonderful" being so suspicious, so jealous if some ot the ladies here spent time with the other women in the fellowship other than herself. This "wonderful" person went out of her way to break bonds between people.
They left this area shattered in pieces.
And worse than them followed them..
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skyrider
Yeah...........around 1996 the corps were told to have NO friendships with those in their area, no "hanging out
with those you are 'leading'". The martindale-policy was one of control and intimidation. If it wasn't a ministry function, then what the he11 were you doing anyway?
Everything was moving towards micro-management and control. Under martindale rule, twi2 was a "follow your leader, don't ask questions, I own you" type of fear-fellowship. True legalism wrapped in the phrases like the present truth and weakness always brings down strength.
Today................I have MANY friends again.
Some friends from childhood whom I've sought out.
Some friends from twi1. :)
Some NEW friends as I'm busy living life.
Some friends that I'm soon to meet.
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ex10
I must say, I have made some friends here, one or three, that I'm pretty sure I will keep forever. :wub: And the greatness of it all is, I can tell them how I feel about lotza different things in life, and most importantly, how I feel about them in particular.
There's something really freeing about being able to say, "Gosh, I am so glad I know you, and you are my friend."
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