I had true friends while in TWI ... of course, most of us left within a six-month period (some later) and now fellowship together in a wonderful church we started on our own!
I thought of somthing, after reading the posts of Notta and others. I was lucky in that not many people I considered close friends stayed in twi after I left. I ran into one in St. Mary's, Ohio, after I left, and she looked like she saw a ghost, muttered something to her hubby, and left quickly. Sad, but God only knows what Ms. Rivenbark told her about me after I left staff.
Most of my twi friends around the country were out or on their way out when I was. So what came between us was time and distance, as Socks alluded to, or their insistence that I join an offshoot.
I made lots of good friends while in twi. It attracted many awesome people. They had their share of rotten and bad apples, but most were very good, imo.
I have some true friends from TWI 1. I think I might have had friends in TWI 2, but there wasn't too much fellowship. Instead, it was all doctrine, reproof, correction. So, I wasn't able to get to know anyone's heart, and I don't think anyone got to know mine. And when I left, I was so sick of TWI, I didn't want to be around anyone who was associated with it. So, I don't talk with anyone from the later years.
All I know is my true friends are at the Ninth Corps site and here at GS. Hey, I know it is cyberspace, but that is all I got. It may sound shallow, I enjoy reading everyones insight of things and the past lost to the TWI in my youth. Thanks friends.
I have a friend that is a REAL friend. We met while in diapers. Went to school together. Joined the local volunteer fire department together and had a country band for 3 years in high school. We had lots of disagreements in school but always managed to get past them.
After graduating, I went into the Army. A year later, I got in the Word. I saw him about 6 months later and didn't witness to him. I didn't want to lose a friend.
Two years later, I stayed at his home on the way from Dallas to Corpus Christi. He was in a small town called Luling.
I had heard he had 'gotten religion' and didn't want to get into a fight over the doctrinal issues. While at his home, we pulled out the guitars and started playing the old country songs we grew up on. We took turns singing and I watched him almost grimmace at some of the beer drinkin' songs.
At one point, when it was his turn, he sang something like Amazing Grace and I chimed right in. Then I did, 'In the Garden' and that broke the ice.
He said, " I didn't know you knew those kind of songs!" Encouraged, I pulled out my sing along the way and we played for another hour.
During the course of the songs, we started talking about the Bible and we got deeper and deeper into the discussion. He mentioned 'the gift of the Holy Ghost' and the door opened. About 30 minutes later, I led him into tongues. He was so grateful, you would have thought I save his life in a house fire.
He and I left TWI about the same time and we are still close friends. We talk about EVERYTHING from music to business, sex and Hollywood, politics and economics.
We are still as different now as when we went to High School. But, we can talk about anything and we would do just about anything for one another and the trust we have is stronger than I ever had with anyone. I admire his wit and discretion, he thinks I have honesty and enthusiasm. There are things about one another that we see and don't necessarily like, but our loyalty doesn't allow the differences to interrupt our communication.
Throughout the 25 some odd years in TWI we might go a few years with no contact. Then out of nowhere, I'd track him down.
Once, while at Gunnison for the summer in the 14th Corps, he and a girlfriend arrived for a Family Camp. He had no idea I was there, and I had no knowledge of his arrival. We just happened to bump into each other about an hour after he arrived. The reunion was magnificent.
While a youngster, my dad defined a freind as someone who knew the worse about you but only saw the good in you.
A few of you, like George St. George and others know him. It's Casey B.
Sushi-haaaa-that was a good one-but I must add a true friend will also help you "bury the body."
To find a true friend is one of the great true joys of life. My wife is my best friend.
I believe God called some of us to twi to find those who were true friends and true believers.
Most of who I thought were friends never will talk to me because I left twi. I guess they weren't true friends.
I never did like VP much or LCM with their big egos.
But I did love the people who truly loved God. I made a few friends that I will love to the day I die. Lloyd B is one. Tricia B is one. Larry P is one. They truly know how to love people.
I have even renewed a few old friendships here at GSC and made some new ones.
That’s funny about true friends helping you bury the body, Sushi and Polar Bear! The down side of that is if true friends ever turn on you – first thing they’ll do is show the Police where they saw YOU bury the body.
…On a serious note – my idea of a real friend is one who accepts you as you are – doesn’t try to control you or change you. Thinking about genuine friendships I had in TWI – they were like that – I didn’t have to speak in guarded terms about anything. That provided such a sense of relief while living in a pressure-cooker.
I met my oldest friend the day after I graduated from high school. It was at Lake Grapevine, Texas, where we were camping in tents for a weekend training. Paula Butler and Robert Belt were preparing us for the summer Minuteman program. I was 18; my friend was 19. We were pseudo-hippies. We were assigned to Waco, Texas. We bonded that summer, and have drifted in and out of one another's lives in times of great need or great triumph on the part of one or of the other; a divorce, a marriage, a surgery, a joy to share, or sometimes just a call because it's been too long. When we talk, even if it's been a while, it's like we last talked yesterday. We love one another and support one another even when we don't see eye to eye. Sometimes, in our busy lives, we are able to visit just to catch up, and those days are treasures. Beach, hospital room, living room: it really doesn't matter. I last saw her this past August.
We went through separate Corps programs. We live in different states. Between the two of us, we've had three marriages, six children, and more blind dates that you'd like to know about. We've got very few secrets from one another.
I am on her side. She is on my side. After 31 years, we still are.
I think I had a couple or a few. Although, as is the culture of twi, once i left we didn't keep in touch. They didn't try and contact me (except one) and I didn't try to contact them. There was probably a mutual understanding. I knew what they thought about me and they knew that I knew what they knew. :)
I wouldn't mind catching up with them.
I do have some true friends from college that stuck with me while I was in still and once I left they were some of my biggest support and they are still around for me.
I think this was a problem especially when it came to marriage. I have always dated and married someone who I am not just attracted to but someone that I have already built a friendship with. In twi it seemed that it was more important to find someone with the same goals as you and at your same "spiritual level" or what ever. VPW used to say you could make a marriage work between any two believers. Well, maybe, but would you be happy. I doubt it.
You love your friends. If you are not friends with the one you love, something is wrong.
You know, I've been thinking about this thread alot, and wondering why the social culture in TWI so discouraged real friendships and more deep relationships with others, than the "comraderie around a cause" that Skyrider mentioned in his first post.
Maybe the answer is a little complex, depending on "where you sat" in the organization. But a couple thoughts that occur to me are: the whole doctrine of being "positive" versus being "negative," fostered shallow relationships. We were discouraged from voicing concerns that appeared "negative," I think because our picture of life with God was totally messed up. Well, hello, real life is messy, and not always "positive," which is the major reason we have a friend in Jesus. So we were these little puppets that always talked about how great everything is, when in truth some things really stunk. And we ignored the putrid smell. IMO, this pollyanna type attitude discouraged going a bit deeper with one another.
Also, in relationships with other fallen humans, at some point, there will be a sampling of self-sacrifice involved. The time will inevitably come, we have to get to the place where the needs, desires, hopes, dreams whatever, of another could require some giving on our part. And yeah, even a little giving that hurts some. Sacrifice of any kind was not a popular idea in TWI, (unless of course, it was sacrifice for the sake of the "ministry," ie the organization.) So to really lay down our lifes for another, was not a popular notion.
Anyway, these are just random thoughts that have flown across my brain lately.
That's funny about true friends helping you bury the body, Sushi and Polar Bear! The down side of that is if true friends ever turn on you – first thing they'll do is show the Police where they saw YOU bury the body.
If that's the case, T, then they weren't true friends, now were they?
T renew your mind think "positive" Hey I took a shower today so I don't smell and looking at all this mess is bumming me out. Sacrifice? Ohhh no I don't wanna go to church with you.
You know I was reading on the Way myspace page what people thought was right according to the Word concerning relationships (dating). It seemed like to get serious was a no-no primarily because it can "cause confusion." There was a lot of talk about confusion and how "we don't want that." How crazy is that?
Of course, the similest answer would be the old VPism "I have no friends when it comes to God's Word!" It makes it pretty clear, that friendship has its doctrinal limits, no matter how close you are. One of the things I was confronted on the last two confrontations I have (with the last one ending up with me leaving) was on non-Way or non-believer friendships. I was spending too much time with people who were not interested in going to fellowship. What insanity!
True friends can be few and far between. They are the ones that stick with you thru the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. I am very thankful to have them. There are the ones you open your heart to and they, love you for who you are. There are those that search the world for you because you were an important part of their life. I have found some those people here at GS and have rekindle friendships again. There are those who fly in, just to say Hi, and visit for days. Some you talk daily with on the phone or in person. Some who perhaps write yearly to tell you how things are going, and growing. The list goes on. I am thankful that I have learned to seize the moments for they may not always be there. To say what needs to be said at the time, so if a friend leaves my life, I will know that nothing was left unsaid. I remind them how important they are to me and just how much I care.
I agree with ex 10;
Maybe the answer is a little complex, depending on "where you sat" in the organization. But a couple thoughts that occur to me are: the whole doctrine of being "positive" versus being "negative," fostered shallow relationships. We were discouraged from voicing concerns that appeared "negative," I think because our picture of life with God was totally messed up. Well, hello, real life is messy, and not always "positive," which is the major reason we have a friend in Jesus. So we were these little puppets that always talked about how great everything is, when in truth some things really stunk. And we ignored the putrid smell. IMO, this pollyanna type attitude discouraged going a bit deeper with one another.
It took me a long time to get past the part of I am doing just fine. Positive.To honestly say how thing were really going in my life. Negative. But once I did, I was liberated in so may areas of my life. I found the balance. Now I can and and with such freedom.
Everybody needs a friend, if you don't have one, track one down like a rabid dog and then lick them to death.
I was fortunate to have made true friends while in the cult. We were those that questioned things, we talked in the shadows trying to figure things out.
One of my dear friends just pm'd me here. I loved the guy. Heart of gold -- we met in my first corps twig. He used to be a priest and he showed up here like 2 or 3 days ago!
I loved Washington Weather and had TWI let us be with people longer rather than moving us, I am sure we would have been closer and remained close.
Ex and I knew each other from when she was a teen and went through many adventures and history.
I have always loved HW, but loosing him for a few years did not stop my caring on concern.
Masterherbalist and I have known each other since she was 15 years old. And although we did not remain close I think I could call her and bat things around as if no time had passed.
Sue Liener - but I lost her about 18 years ago.
I get Christmas cards from a true dear old friend Crystal and if either one of us were in a jam I believe we would stick our necks out to help the other one.
So, I guess I think of a friend as one whom I love and whom loves me. No matter how much time has passed or what we have seperately endured I think we could pick up where we left off...
Now, are any of these folks close enough that if I were homeless they would take me in? Maybe Ex...
But then again, I cannot think of anyone I would want to live with me either.... :unsure:
That's funny about true friends helping you bury the body, Sushi and Polar Bear! The down side of that is if true friends ever turn on you – first thing they'll do is show the Police where they saw YOU bury the body.
If that's the case, T, then they weren't true friends, now were they?
You bring up a good point, Sushi. Sometimes we can misjudge people. That’s why when I have any “business” to dispose of – we all wear blindfolds…Me, my friend…and the stiff – just in case he was a friend too.
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DogLover
I had true friends while in TWI ... of course, most of us left within a six-month period (some later) and now fellowship together in a wonderful church we started on our own!
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Linda Z
Skyrider, thanks for your sweet words.
I thought of somthing, after reading the posts of Notta and others. I was lucky in that not many people I considered close friends stayed in twi after I left. I ran into one in St. Mary's, Ohio, after I left, and she looked like she saw a ghost, muttered something to her hubby, and left quickly. Sad, but God only knows what Ms. Rivenbark told her about me after I left staff.
Most of my twi friends around the country were out or on their way out when I was. So what came between us was time and distance, as Socks alluded to, or their insistence that I join an offshoot.
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Sushi
This is the Joisey difference between a friend and an acquaintance.
An acquaintance is someone who will help you move.
A friend is someone who will help you move a dead body.
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Priscilla
We feel the same about you.
I just realized that on one of our trips to Maui you and the Mrs stayed at our house and took care of our business. That was a "few" years ago!
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waterbuffalo
I'm sorry, also, that you lost your friend, Broken1.
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Suda
I made lots of good friends while in twi. It attracted many awesome people. They had their share of rotten and bad apples, but most were very good, imo.
Suda
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VeganXTC
I have some true friends from TWI 1. I think I might have had friends in TWI 2, but there wasn't too much fellowship. Instead, it was all doctrine, reproof, correction. So, I wasn't able to get to know anyone's heart, and I don't think anyone got to know mine. And when I left, I was so sick of TWI, I didn't want to be around anyone who was associated with it. So, I don't talk with anyone from the later years.
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excathedra
real friends love you wayfer head or not
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fellowshipper
All I know is my true friends are at the Ninth Corps site and here at GS. Hey, I know it is cyberspace, but that is all I got. It may sound shallow, I enjoy reading everyones insight of things and the past lost to the TWI in my youth. Thanks friends.
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YIdon'tgotochurch
I have a friend that is a REAL friend. We met while in diapers. Went to school together. Joined the local volunteer fire department together and had a country band for 3 years in high school. We had lots of disagreements in school but always managed to get past them.
After graduating, I went into the Army. A year later, I got in the Word. I saw him about 6 months later and didn't witness to him. I didn't want to lose a friend.
Two years later, I stayed at his home on the way from Dallas to Corpus Christi. He was in a small town called Luling.
I had heard he had 'gotten religion' and didn't want to get into a fight over the doctrinal issues. While at his home, we pulled out the guitars and started playing the old country songs we grew up on. We took turns singing and I watched him almost grimmace at some of the beer drinkin' songs.
At one point, when it was his turn, he sang something like Amazing Grace and I chimed right in. Then I did, 'In the Garden' and that broke the ice.
He said, " I didn't know you knew those kind of songs!" Encouraged, I pulled out my sing along the way and we played for another hour.
During the course of the songs, we started talking about the Bible and we got deeper and deeper into the discussion. He mentioned 'the gift of the Holy Ghost' and the door opened. About 30 minutes later, I led him into tongues. He was so grateful, you would have thought I save his life in a house fire.
He and I left TWI about the same time and we are still close friends. We talk about EVERYTHING from music to business, sex and Hollywood, politics and economics.
We are still as different now as when we went to High School. But, we can talk about anything and we would do just about anything for one another and the trust we have is stronger than I ever had with anyone. I admire his wit and discretion, he thinks I have honesty and enthusiasm. There are things about one another that we see and don't necessarily like, but our loyalty doesn't allow the differences to interrupt our communication.
Throughout the 25 some odd years in TWI we might go a few years with no contact. Then out of nowhere, I'd track him down.
Once, while at Gunnison for the summer in the 14th Corps, he and a girlfriend arrived for a Family Camp. He had no idea I was there, and I had no knowledge of his arrival. We just happened to bump into each other about an hour after he arrived. The reunion was magnificent.
While a youngster, my dad defined a freind as someone who knew the worse about you but only saw the good in you.
A few of you, like George St. George and others know him. It's Casey B.
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polar bear
Skyrider-you did it again. Great topic!
Sushi-haaaa-that was a good one-but I must add a true friend will also help you "bury the body."
To find a true friend is one of the great true joys of life. My wife is my best friend.
I believe God called some of us to twi to find those who were true friends and true believers.
Most of who I thought were friends never will talk to me because I left twi. I guess they weren't true friends.
I never did like VP much or LCM with their big egos.
But I did love the people who truly loved God. I made a few friends that I will love to the day I die. Lloyd B is one. Tricia B is one. Larry P is one. They truly know how to love people.
I have even renewed a few old friendships here at GSC and made some new ones.
May we continue to find true friends
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excathedra
PLEASE GIVE larry p my love ! thank you
((((((((((((((((( hey slipper )))))))))))))))
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Sushi
You are correct, PB. I will add that to the definition for future reference.
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T-Bone
That’s funny about true friends helping you bury the body, Sushi and Polar Bear! The down side of that is if true friends ever turn on you – first thing they’ll do is show the Police where they saw YOU bury the body.
…On a serious note – my idea of a real friend is one who accepts you as you are – doesn’t try to control you or change you. Thinking about genuine friendships I had in TWI – they were like that – I didn’t have to speak in guarded terms about anything. That provided such a sense of relief while living in a pressure-cooker.
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notinKansasanymore
I met my oldest friend the day after I graduated from high school. It was at Lake Grapevine, Texas, where we were camping in tents for a weekend training. Paula Butler and Robert Belt were preparing us for the summer Minuteman program. I was 18; my friend was 19. We were pseudo-hippies. We were assigned to Waco, Texas. We bonded that summer, and have drifted in and out of one another's lives in times of great need or great triumph on the part of one or of the other; a divorce, a marriage, a surgery, a joy to share, or sometimes just a call because it's been too long. When we talk, even if it's been a while, it's like we last talked yesterday. We love one another and support one another even when we don't see eye to eye. Sometimes, in our busy lives, we are able to visit just to catch up, and those days are treasures. Beach, hospital room, living room: it really doesn't matter. I last saw her this past August.
We went through separate Corps programs. We live in different states. Between the two of us, we've had three marriages, six children, and more blind dates that you'd like to know about. We've got very few secrets from one another.
I am on her side. She is on my side. After 31 years, we still are.
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lindyhopper
I think I had a couple or a few. Although, as is the culture of twi, once i left we didn't keep in touch. They didn't try and contact me (except one) and I didn't try to contact them. There was probably a mutual understanding. I knew what they thought about me and they knew that I knew what they knew. :)
I wouldn't mind catching up with them.
I do have some true friends from college that stuck with me while I was in still and once I left they were some of my biggest support and they are still around for me.
I think this was a problem especially when it came to marriage. I have always dated and married someone who I am not just attracted to but someone that I have already built a friendship with. In twi it seemed that it was more important to find someone with the same goals as you and at your same "spiritual level" or what ever. VPW used to say you could make a marriage work between any two believers. Well, maybe, but would you be happy. I doubt it.
You love your friends. If you are not friends with the one you love, something is wrong.
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ex10
You know, I've been thinking about this thread alot, and wondering why the social culture in TWI so discouraged real friendships and more deep relationships with others, than the "comraderie around a cause" that Skyrider mentioned in his first post.
Maybe the answer is a little complex, depending on "where you sat" in the organization. But a couple thoughts that occur to me are: the whole doctrine of being "positive" versus being "negative," fostered shallow relationships. We were discouraged from voicing concerns that appeared "negative," I think because our picture of life with God was totally messed up. Well, hello, real life is messy, and not always "positive," which is the major reason we have a friend in Jesus. So we were these little puppets that always talked about how great everything is, when in truth some things really stunk. And we ignored the putrid smell. IMO, this pollyanna type attitude discouraged going a bit deeper with one another.
Also, in relationships with other fallen humans, at some point, there will be a sampling of self-sacrifice involved. The time will inevitably come, we have to get to the place where the needs, desires, hopes, dreams whatever, of another could require some giving on our part. And yeah, even a little giving that hurts some. Sacrifice of any kind was not a popular idea in TWI, (unless of course, it was sacrifice for the sake of the "ministry," ie the organization.) So to really lay down our lifes for another, was not a popular notion.
Anyway, these are just random thoughts that have flown across my brain lately.
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Sushi
If that's the case, T, then they weren't true friends, now were they?
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WhiteDove
T renew your mind think "positive" Hey I took a shower today so I don't smell and looking at all this mess is bumming me out. Sacrifice? Ohhh no I don't wanna go to church with you.
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ex10
Too late, whitedove!! You have already passed the friend test. :B)
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lindyhopper
I agree, ex10.
You know I was reading on the Way myspace page what people thought was right according to the Word concerning relationships (dating). It seemed like to get serious was a no-no primarily because it can "cause confusion." There was a lot of talk about confusion and how "we don't want that." How crazy is that?
Of course, the similest answer would be the old VPism "I have no friends when it comes to God's Word!" It makes it pretty clear, that friendship has its doctrinal limits, no matter how close you are. One of the things I was confronted on the last two confrontations I have (with the last one ending up with me leaving) was on non-Way or non-believer friendships. I was spending too much time with people who were not interested in going to fellowship. What insanity!
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Ca_dreaming
True friends can be few and far between. They are the ones that stick with you thru the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. I am very thankful to have them. There are the ones you open your heart to and they, love you for who you are. There are those that search the world for you because you were an important part of their life. I have found some those people here at GS and have rekindle friendships again. There are those who fly in, just to say Hi, and visit for days. Some you talk daily with on the phone or in person. Some who perhaps write yearly to tell you how things are going, and growing. The list goes on. I am thankful that I have learned to seize the moments for they may not always be there. To say what needs to be said at the time, so if a friend leaves my life, I will know that nothing was left unsaid. I remind them how important they are to me and just how much I care.
I agree with ex 10;
It took me a long time to get past the part of I am doing just fine. Positive.To honestly say how thing were really going in my life. Negative. But once I did, I was liberated in so may areas of my life. I found the balance. Now I can
and 
and 
with such freedom.
Everybody needs a friend, if you don't have one, track one down like a rabid dog and then lick them to death.
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Dot Matrix
I was fortunate to have made true friends while in the cult. We were those that questioned things, we talked in the shadows trying to figure things out.
One of my dear friends just pm'd me here. I loved the guy. Heart of gold -- we met in my first corps twig. He used to be a priest and he showed up here like 2 or 3 days ago!
I loved Washington Weather and had TWI let us be with people longer rather than moving us, I am sure we would have been closer and remained close.
Ex and I knew each other from when she was a teen and went through many adventures and history.
I have always loved HW, but loosing him for a few years did not stop my caring on concern.
Masterherbalist and I have known each other since she was 15 years old. And although we did not remain close I think I could call her and bat things around as if no time had passed.
Sue Liener - but I lost her about 18 years ago.
I get Christmas cards from a true dear old friend Crystal and if either one of us were in a jam I believe we would stick our necks out to help the other one.
So, I guess I think of a friend as one whom I love and whom loves me. No matter how much time has passed or what we have seperately endured I think we could pick up where we left off...
Now, are any of these folks close enough that if I were homeless they would take me in? Maybe Ex...
But then again, I cannot think of anyone I would want to live with me either.... :unsure:
I do not think my own parents would put me up....
Nottawafer - wow, that must of hurt.
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T-Bone
You bring up a good point, Sushi. Sometimes we can misjudge people. That’s why when I have any “business” to dispose of – we all wear blindfolds…Me, my friend…and the stiff – just in case he was a friend too.
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