Think about it. All of the ones I've ever known who think they are the special ones and have all this authority and power delegated by God all seem to be frustrated and unhappy.
Some of them were just plain NUTS. I saw froth come out of some of those guys.. Loy was about the worst.
I think the "spiritual anger" thingy just gave some a good reason for practical insanity..
But, they have their mission and can't figure out why they have to spend time constantly trying to "help" people who won't let them.
The local corps here couldn't figure it out, for TWO YEARS. Nobody came, nobody asked.. "hmm, must be somethin wrong with da PEOPLE..."
They didn't have a clue..
I can't call the guy a bigwig exactly.. but a long time believer couple came up from headquarters, really nice people, and they had a few smarts beyond the bible..
People lined up by the DROVES to ask them a few questions..
I was really referring to ex-twi "mogs" who started ex-twi offshoots and considered themselves as, for lack of a better term, heavies in twi. Some of us would refer to them here as ex-twi spinoff mini-cult leaders.
I don't think that all of us who graduated from the wc took manipulation to that extreme and most of us who post here have publicly apologized to any we may have hurt while we were under the (twi-wc) influence. Most of us have made amends, gotten real jobs, and have made a concerted efforts to get on with our lives.
The big names from the past can't seem to do that. While they mouth that all believers have a ministry, they have an aloof air about them that says, imo, that their ministry is more special and they are above the "little ones" (most other "regular" believers). They hold onto the twi-mog image from the past and it is hard for them to have relationships with "the little" ones other than, "me leadah, you follower." They find it virtually impossible to have a brother/sister relationship with other believers their own age, even. There is always the fruit of the caste system mentality.
This is not a judgment about them. It is a common characteristic observed by moi that has to be holding them back in their growth process and in their ministry and private lives. Are there some out there who don't fit into this category and really are humble and have the servant mentality? Probably. I am simply saying I have not met any.
If anyone knows ex-twi-big-name-offshoot-mogs who don't fit into this category, please, by all means let me know. I would LOVE to hear about it.
It seems that the one thing they all learned best from grifter Vic was to walk with an air of superiority.
I mean, it's gotta be hard to roll up your sleeves and drink a few beers with the boys...and maybe even tell a couple of off color jokes...when you carry the burden of MOG on your shoulders.
My question is this...how come so many of us woke up out of this cult mentality but these guys remain clueless to this day?...Could it have anything to do with ego and a paycheck?
It seems that the one thing they all learned best from grifter Vic was to walk with an air of superiority.
I mean, it's gotta be hard to roll up your sleeves and drink a few beers with the boys...and maybe even tell a couple of off color jokes...when you carry the burden of MOG on your shoulders.
My question is this...how come so many of us woke up out of this cult mentality but these guys remain clueless to this day?...Could it have anything to do with ego and a paycheck?
Thaaaaaaaaaaats what I'm talking about, Groucho.
Unfortunately....
"and I thought they were just trying to paint the sky with their nose hairs.. silly me."
...and Socks, I thought your comment on the other thread fits nicely here, as well:
"It's no surprise to me that all the strident self-pumped so-called "Ministers" have trouble doing simple things like that when they're more concerned about solving everyone else's problems instead of their own."
they do not play with the same rules the rest of society does.
most people realize if you tell the guy who started the company your working for now his wife has spiders coming out of her nose realize they may be in the unemp0loyment line.
not in bazzaro world of cults no they consider it and divorce their wife then rally troops and rethink it and then go through all these safe checks to minamize damage then FIRE you.
the idea of we are not of the world fits them when they twist logical living beyond normal standards to suit them. But when it comes down to who is going to lose then hell yeah go to court of america and sue those crazy birds you consider fellows.
:( Wow, that's too bad to hear about VF. I thought he was one of the nicest MOG at HDQ back then. He was always encouraging us, was fair to us and stuck up for us when other leaders wanted to trash us. He really was like first level mgmt caught in between his people and the leaders and he really took a lot of hits for the people who were under him. I realize I never worked for him so I 'm not discounting what is being written by the others - I just never had that experience from him.
JAL was another example in the early (oh, I mean "ancient" Corps) to me in the early days. Whereas some of the Corps were arrogant and condenscending I never found that to be true of him. In the Corps I was his first twig leader and he was nothing but courteous, supportive and helpful to me. I find the things I've read here about him, how he treated Elizabeth and how he allowed the leaders in CES to treat him to be completely opposite of the JAL I knew back then.
May we all be forgiven for our past offenses. I think all of us who were leaders back then need to be forgiven by somebody and probably multitudes! If there is anybody out there I hurt I am VERY sorry and I apologize and ask you for forgiveness and hope I am forgiven.
I wonder if other past leaders ever think and say that. I hope so.
Don't know if these two fit into your criteria, but it seems that Wayne Clapp and John Hill are well adjusted, beneficial men who were ordained clergy with twi. I love and respect each of them. All of my experiences with them to date have been very positive, and not a bit negative in any way.
Haven't ever talked with the Hills--seemed like a nice couple, though.
Did talk to Wayne Clapp once after he started CFF--seemed the same as always--not that that is necessarily good or bad imho. Arrogance was never one of his trademarks, imo. I'm glad to hear such good things about him :-)
Haven't ever talked with the Hills--seemed like a nice couple, though.
Did talk to Wayne Clapp once after he started CFF--seemed the same as always--not that that is necessarily good or bad imho. Arrogance was never one of his trademarks, imo. I'm glad to hear such good things about him :-)
[N
Not the WC that I know. And I knew him pretty well. I found him to be sweet one minute and pretty evil and demeaning. Call it cult defence mentality. Found him to be very legalistic and a defender of the cult mentality. Some of the sweet sounding and soft spoken can be the most danagerous.
Not the WC that I know. And I knew him pretty well. I found him to be sweet one minute and pretty evil and demeaning. Call it cult defence mentality. Found him to be very legalistic and a defender of the cult mentality. Some of the sweet sounding and soft spoken can be the most danagerous.
Suffice to say, Rich, last time I saw him, he wasn't much interested in talking with me after he figured out I wasn't interested in CFF in the least--wasn't impressed by his teaching at all (actually, I wouldn't have attended the fellowship had I known they were having an ex-twi heavy rev speaker). It was just rehashed way stuffy stuff. He seemed kind of bored doing it.
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excathedra
i've told this before (sowwy)
but when i was on staff, vnce fnnegan was extremely nasty to me (i'm being kind here)
my dept. head told me it was because he was under so much spiritual frikkin stress or something
i said he should get another job
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Ham
Some of them were just plain NUTS. I saw froth come out of some of those guys.. Loy was about the worst.
I think the "spiritual anger" thingy just gave some a good reason for practical insanity..
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rhino
VF was such a heavy .... I wonder why he never got healed of that bad hair ...
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Sushi
I'm only an armchair shrink, but I suppose it's a narcissism riddle wrapped in a messianic complex.
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sprawled out
that guy NEVER seemed even remotely happy to me. on the rare occasion when i saw him smile, it looked like it hurt.
and, as i believe i've said elsewhere, he was a pr!ck. in my experience, anyway.
but it's apparently worked for him--looks like he's running a pretty successful splinter. maybe he's happier now that it's his show.
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Ham
OMG Sushi..
:biglaugh:
It's true though..
The local corps here couldn't figure it out, for TWO YEARS. Nobody came, nobody asked.. "hmm, must be somethin wrong with da PEOPLE..."
They didn't have a clue..
I can't call the guy a bigwig exactly.. but a long time believer couple came up from headquarters, really nice people, and they had a few smarts beyond the bible..
People lined up by the DROVES to ask them a few questions..
The corpses STILL couldn't figure it out..
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waterbuffalo
I'm sorry that that happened to you Mr. Ham.
I was really referring to ex-twi "mogs" who started ex-twi offshoots and considered themselves as, for lack of a better term, heavies in twi. Some of us would refer to them here as ex-twi spinoff mini-cult leaders.
I don't think that all of us who graduated from the wc took manipulation to that extreme and most of us who post here have publicly apologized to any we may have hurt while we were under the (twi-wc) influence. Most of us have made amends, gotten real jobs, and have made a concerted efforts to get on with our lives.
The big names from the past can't seem to do that. While they mouth that all believers have a ministry, they have an aloof air about them that says, imo, that their ministry is more special and they are above the "little ones" (most other "regular" believers). They hold onto the twi-mog image from the past and it is hard for them to have relationships with "the little" ones other than, "me leadah, you follower." They find it virtually impossible to have a brother/sister relationship with other believers their own age, even. There is always the fruit of the caste system mentality.
This is not a judgment about them. It is a common characteristic observed by moi that has to be holding them back in their growth process and in their ministry and private lives. Are there some out there who don't fit into this category and really are humble and have the servant mentality? Probably. I am simply saying I have not met any.
If anyone knows ex-twi-big-name-offshoot-mogs who don't fit into this category, please, by all means let me know. I would LOVE to hear about it.
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GrouchoMarxJr
It seems that the one thing they all learned best from grifter Vic was to walk with an air of superiority.
I mean, it's gotta be hard to roll up your sleeves and drink a few beers with the boys...and maybe even tell a couple of off color jokes...when you carry the burden of MOG on your shoulders.
My question is this...how come so many of us woke up out of this cult mentality but these guys remain clueless to this day?...Could it have anything to do with ego and a paycheck?
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Ham
and I thought they were just trying to paint the sky with their nose hairs.. silly me.
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waterbuffalo
Thaaaaaaaaaaats what I'm talking about, Groucho.
Unfortunately....
"and I thought they were just trying to paint the sky with their nose hairs.. silly me."
lol, Ham
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waterbuffalo
...and Socks, I thought your comment on the other thread fits nicely here, as well:
"It's no surprise to me that all the strident self-pumped so-called "Ministers" have trouble doing simple things like that when they're more concerned about solving everyone else's problems instead of their own."
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pond
they do not play with the same rules the rest of society does.
most people realize if you tell the guy who started the company your working for now his wife has spiders coming out of her nose realize they may be in the unemp0loyment line.
not in bazzaro world of cults no they consider it and divorce their wife then rally troops and rethink it and then go through all these safe checks to minamize damage then FIRE you.
the idea of we are not of the world fits them when they twist logical living beyond normal standards to suit them. But when it comes down to who is going to lose then hell yeah go to court of america and sue those crazy birds you consider fellows.
it is so darn strange.
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Ham
they don't exactly play with a full deck, either..
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excathedra
look if you know a cult leader who is happy, you're giving him way too much $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Edi
:( Wow, that's too bad to hear about VF. I thought he was one of the nicest MOG at HDQ back then. He was always encouraging us, was fair to us and stuck up for us when other leaders wanted to trash us. He really was like first level mgmt caught in between his people and the leaders and he really took a lot of hits for the people who were under him. I realize I never worked for him so I 'm not discounting what is being written by the others - I just never had that experience from him.
JAL was another example in the early (oh, I mean "ancient" Corps) to me in the early days. Whereas some of the Corps were arrogant and condenscending I never found that to be true of him. In the Corps I was his first twig leader and he was nothing but courteous, supportive and helpful to me. I find the things I've read here about him, how he treated Elizabeth and how he allowed the leaders in CES to treat him to be completely opposite of the JAL I knew back then.
May we all be forgiven for our past offenses. I think all of us who were leaders back then need to be forgiven by somebody and probably multitudes! If there is anybody out there I hurt I am VERY sorry and I apologize and ask you for forgiveness and hope I am forgiven.
I wonder if other past leaders ever think and say that. I hope so.
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Tom Strange
put out your shingle verbal! ...I think we just solved your job problem! :)
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Suda
Don't know if these two fit into your criteria, but it seems that Wayne Clapp and John Hill are well adjusted, beneficial men who were ordained clergy with twi. I love and respect each of them. All of my experiences with them to date have been very positive, and not a bit negative in any way.
Suda
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waterbuffalo
Thanks, Suda.
Haven't ever talked with the Hills--seemed like a nice couple, though.
Did talk to Wayne Clapp once after he started CFF--seemed the same as always--not that that is necessarily good or bad imho. Arrogance was never one of his trademarks, imo. I'm glad to hear such good things about him :-)
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rich
[N
Not the WC that I know. And I knew him pretty well. I found him to be sweet one minute and pretty evil and demeaning. Call it cult defence mentality. Found him to be very legalistic and a defender of the cult mentality. Some of the sweet sounding and soft spoken can be the most danagerous.
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waterbuffalo
Suffice to say, Rich, last time I saw him, he wasn't much interested in talking with me after he figured out I wasn't interested in CFF in the least--wasn't impressed by his teaching at all (actually, I wouldn't have attended the fellowship had I known they were having an ex-twi heavy rev speaker). It was just rehashed way stuffy stuff. He seemed kind of bored doing it.
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Suda
Thought of another awesome person and teacher that may fit your criteria, Ken Petty.
Suda
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rich
you think the list might be long for all these peofested mod's that fit the criteria
rich
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rich
I'll learn how to spell soon.
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excathedra
i have a special place in my heart for john hill
what's he doing these days ? does he have a splinter ?
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