Wow CW ... glad you survived all those bullets ... life is good.
Sounds like an interesting story, maybe even pertinent here. Still, unless you have a real reason, it would be hard to stay in a neighborhood like that.
Well, I live in an area of the world that has had Latino/Hispanc gangs a long time--you are affected by gangs directly or indirectly inour soceity. One has to be savy and not naive.
I hatem...but that said...sadly these are where the kids go because the older kids and adults and yes even grandparents in the gangs pay some kind of attention.
Albuquerque, NM has its share and yes many are from Central America and that other country -- umm Oh yeah Los Angeles. The other huge criminal population is a Cuban area. There are lots of sweet people who live in the same neighborhoods, but even they hate what they have done to their neighborhoods. My husband works for Qwest.-- the phone company. It takes him all over. There is a part of Albuquerque caled the war zone, mostly the LA gangs and the Cuban drug dealers live there. The city has built blockades into what was 4 way stops t prevent fast "getaway" traffic, Hubby leaves these areas before sunset in the better weather and is glad for winter, because they are not as active. He has been working on a phone box only to see some pimpy car drive up with a machine gun ou the window and he stopswhat he is doing and gets in his van and leaves. The nice people don't go out of their houses. The housewives like it when he comes, because they can't even go out to speak with neighbors for fear of whatever--and there are many whatevers. When we first moved here, we lived in a poorer area and there is a gang called the 12th st. gang. They initiate girls by getting them to steal purses in grocery stores. Mine was one of the purses, and my 10 moth old was right next to the purse. I even had my hand on the cart. Scary -- since then we have moved pretty far away from that area.
Now all that said..look at how our government is handling the prosecution of gangs - Marshal's are prosecuting the Border Patrol guards for busting these scummy gang drug dealers.....And don't for one minute think they are not working for a gang...nobody does it by themelves anymore -- its just a modern equivalent of the Mafia with more friendly fire.
It's hard, no doubt. We still live in a pretty active 'gang' type area...nothing quite as bad as Topeka, though.
But you know what was harder for me? Living in white suburbia where there was no crime on the streets...it was all kept inside the homes, behind closed doors, secret and deadly.
You lead a very different life than I do. If I lived in a home with "The house we had in Topeka still has several .45 rounds in the front of it...and many more .38 and .22 rounds in other walls." And a neighborhood with wood on the windows etc. you damn well better believe I would be packing. I would retake karate and I would save my money to move.
It is easy to get used to that and I am sure some people can actually sleep with sirens and red lights flashing --- but like in my cousin Vinny - he needed all of that to feel peaceful because he was used to it. I prefer the annoying crickets and bleeping owls.
Or
I would much prefer a nice street in a nice neighborhood where the neighbor bakes a pie for no reason and gives it to you on a Thursday.
I would never feel comfortable in a gang area. And I would always try to leave. And if my creepy neighbors treated me just fine but had a secret about their Aunt Eve because she dates other woman -- well they can have their family secrets. But you come taking your violence and crime into my neighborhood and I will protect myself and what is mine.
Perhaps you prefer to live in these places, for whatever reason I do not. And I do not think America was suppose to be a frightened country letting gun toting children hog tie you and steal your belongings.
Now, your method of changes the gang life I salute. You did an admirable job.
But my goal is to NEVER EVER live in an area where "The house we had in Topeka still has several .45 rounds in the front of it...and many more .38 and .22 rounds in other walls." And in an effort to stop that we have to protect what we worked so hard to achieve. Not give it to a bunch of punks and hope in 7 years things will be better.
This is not a slam to you just painfully different view points.
We opened up a youth center directly across the street along with a library.
What happened more and more groups of kids are congregating on the corners and the gang signs are being painted.
If a GANG member is not here legally, I would just as soon drive his azz back across the border myself -- but our cowardly ACLU would hire 45 lawyers to protect his "rights" which the illegals in effect gave up when they entered the country illegally.
So, I am for locking them up, for breaking them up and for protecting me and mine anyway I have to.
I salute your methods that you employed and they worked for you. I am not letting this take root, if I can help it.
if you didn't know what they were. The house we had in Topeka still has several .45 rounds in the front of it...and many more .38 and .22 rounds in other walls.
Not once did we own a gun.
Good for you. But I sure wish that my renters's son (who confronted the guys in the process of what looked like the beginning of the rape of a defenseless young woman) had had a gun. He just might still be here today. As it is the punk azz gangstahs "popped a cap in his azz", and now he is a worm farm somewhere in California. I say clean the scum out with deadly force. Use our Navy Seals here where we need them, and start exterminating the vermin. Mother rapers and father stabbers need to go.....
CC has a Latinos United Org. that has solid connections in the county government. It seens the county got an up close look at potential gang problems and started looking at what might help in preventing an outbreak of crime associated with gang activity and other issues of the latino population, simply accepting the facts of a situation goes along ways towards solving the problem at hand. They have english and ged classes and have a legal help line, I've been asked to help but so far I'm pretty much impressed by what they are doing on their own. I cannot say much on this program success as it is new and was implimented before a gang problem existed but I think it is a hopeful program and certainly founded on a common interest. I'm keeping my eye open for project and funding opportunities but alot of that will depend on the needs of the community.
I have carried since '86 I have dealt with many interesting situations and thankfully only needed to pull it in earnest once. In that situation, in 95 or 6 I think I was at a gathering and things looked weird so I went to my car n got my gun so I could exit my family from the premises without much fuss. Thankfully that wasn't necessary and thanks to you all we can all rest better.
I'm not a big fan of the Clint Eastwood approach to solving social issues.
You lead a very different life than I do. If I lived in a home with "The house we had in Topeka still has several .45 rounds in the front of it...and many more .38 and .22 rounds in other walls." And a neighborhood with wood on the windows etc. you damn well better believe I would be packing. I would retake karate and I would save my money to move.
I am glad you have that option in life.
It is easy to get used to that and I am sure some people can actually sleep with sirens and red lights flashing --- but like in my cousin Vinny - he needed all of that to feel peaceful because he was used to it. I prefer the annoying crickets and bleeping owls.
At what point did I say I was used to any of this? What I said was that we organized and cleaned it up.
Or
I would much prefer a nice street in a nice neighborhood where the neighbor bakes a pie for no reason and gives it to you on a Thursday.
What makes you think that didn't happen/doesn't happen where I have lived and do live?
The whole time we lived in that house in Topeka (12 years), we found groceries on our doorstep at least once a week. Every Christmas there was either a turkey or a ham, all the fixin's and trimmings, and very personal, well thought out gifts for each one of us in our family...including our pets.
Have you ever lived in a black community? Do you have any clue as to what it means to live in a black community?
Family is the center, and food glues the family together. Usually Grandma is the matriarch of the family...and Grandma can put her foot in some food! What most people here think of as 'southern' food is what I know as 'soul' food. Sweet potato pie, rabbit stew, greens, mashed taters, tater salad, fried chicken, bar-b-qued ribs, hot wings, fried cat fish, pork chops and homemade apple sauce, creamed corn cornbread, and on and on. Every birth, marriage, death, promotion, graduation (from K-College), award, divorce, holiday, church meeting, whatever excuse can be found, our neighborhood was getting together and taking care of one another with food, clothes, singing, dancing and a beer or two.
Same thing with a Latino community...except the food is burritos, enchiladas, tacos, chile rellanos, tortas, tamales, flan, etc.
How about a Vietnamese community? Or a Native American community? Or an Israeli community? Or a Korean community?
What seems like an assumption on your part is that bringing pie around is unique to white suburbia. The truth is, white suburbia does such things as a way to show its social duty. Other communities do it as a lifestyle of survival. White suburbia doesn't need someone to bring food over.
I would never feel comfortable in a gang area.
Are you equating comfortable with accepting? I do not accept gang activity...or any other form of violence. I am, however, comfortable in my home. I wasn't for a long, long time. I had to learn to be comfortable in my own home. I didn't just come to this place of calm magically. Actually, it took a whole lot of work. But being comfortable in my home is not the same as being comfortable with gang activity.
And I would always try to leave.
See, that's where we differ the most. I feel that if those who do not perpetrate crime leave, then who will teach the children that they have options? The Salvation Army? Big Brothers/Big Sisters? The churches? Well, who will make up the congregations? Who will be the volunteers? It takes people fully vested in the future of the neighborhood to make a real impact on the hearts and minds of those stuck in the neighborhood.
And if my creepy neighbors treated me just fine but had a secret about their Aunt Eve because she dates other woman -- well they can have their family secrets.
If that's the only secret you can imagine, you are truly a privileged woman.
I said, "But you know what was harder for me? Living in white suburbia where there was no crime on the streets...it was all kept inside the homes, behind closed doors, secret and deadly."
Being a closet lesbian is not a crime...nor is it deadly...and it is certainly not something that would contribute to crime and violence in a neighborhood.
What I was talking about was stuff like pedophilia (which, btw, most pedophiles fit the profile of white, middle class, married, respected in the community and often known as a pillar of the community), domestic violence (another typically white, middle class crime), drug distributing (which is not penny ante dealing, but is the drop place for the shipment...and is, again, typically perpetrated by middle class whites), and a myriad of other crimes against women and children.
But you come taking your violence and crime into my neighborhood and I will protect myself and what is mine.
You don't think that's what your 'gangbangers' are thinking? If you think they're thinking any differently than you, you're mistaken.
Perhaps you prefer to live in these places, for whatever reason I do not.
What do you think I prefer? The violence? Nope. The slum and blight? Nope. The abject poverty? Nope. The people? BINGO!!!!
If I had a choice of being in a room full of 'gangbangers' or a room full of women from the Lady's Society, you bet your bippy that I'd much rather be in a room full of 'gangbangers'. Their intents and purposes are plain to see and one knows where one stands with them. The Lady's Society, on the other, will screw your husband behind your back, crap on your kids every chance they get, stick their noses so far up in your behind that they can see the red, call Code Enforcement if you have a clothes line, and other such Soap Opera behavior. Then they'll bring you pie on Thursday and smile in your face.
And I do not think America was suppose to be a frightened country letting gun toting children hog tie you and steal your belongings.
Really? What white-washed version of American History do you believe, woman? Good gawd! That's one of the most unlearned and double-standard sentiments I've ever heard.
On the one hand you want to keep a gun and be able to protect yourself and, as some here have stated, shoot to kill.
On the other hand, if those you deem to be 'criminal' think the same way, well BY GAWD GET THEM OUTTA AMERICA!
Now, your method of changes the gang life I salute. You did an admirable job.
It wasn't me alone, but tyvm.
However, if it's so admirable, why wouldn't you do it, too?
But my goal is to NEVER EVER live in an area where "The house we had in Topeka still has several .45 rounds in the front of it...and many more .38 and .22 rounds in other walls."
Bully for you. Gawd bless your efforts.
And in an effort to stop that we have to protect what we worked so hard to achieve. Not give it to a bunch of punks and hope in 7 years things will be better.
First, I plainly stated that things got better in the first year.
Second, where does this sentiment end? Where do you draw the line? At the criminals? Well then who do you criminalize? The violent 'gangbangers'? What about the Welfare Mamas? Or, maybe, those Middle Eastern types? Would you have my daughter investigated because her father is full blooded Iranian and my daughter just didn't look right to you?
These sentiments you state here are the foundation of a very shaky house of trouble that has driven America into the ground.
Those who think that running away and locking up everybody that feels not so safe are the same people who end up goosestepping when the time comes.
This is not a slam to you just painfully different view points.
And I'm not slamming you...just expressing my opinion of what you have shared.
What's making it so painful, btw?
We opened up a youth center directly across the street along with a library. What happened more and more groups of kids are congregating on the corners and the gang signs are being painted.
How much time do YOU spend at the youth center helping kids with homework, listening to what their lives are like, being a safe adult friend?
I said it before and I'll say it again: it takes people who are FULLY VESTED in the future of the neighborhood to actually change a neighborhood.
If one is not willing to be FULLY VESTED in the future of a neighborhood, one cannot complain when the neighborhood goes to hell.
If a GANG member is not here legally, I would just as soon drive his azz back across the border myself -- but our cowardly ACLU would hire 45 lawyers to protect his "rights" which the illegals in effect gave up when they entered the country illegally.
I feel like jumping up with my hand raised in salute and yelling, "Sieg hiel!"
Oh...sorry...tripped for a minute there...
So, I am for locking them up, for breaking them up and for protecting me and mine anyway I have to.
Yep, you've made that perfectly clear.
At what point do you cross over that line of acceptable and unacceptable violen...ahem, 'protection'?
I salute your methods that you employed and they worked for you. I am not letting this take root, if I can help it.
You think I 'let it take root'? You think it hasn't taken root already in your neighborhood?
Dot, I'm gonna say this because I am concerned for you, not because I am being catty, OK?
So much of the trouble I read of you having is often due to what you don't understand. Maybe it is time for you to hear the universe speaking to you and encouraging you to learn about those who are different from you. Maybe you'll find yourself in more acceptable and comforting conditions.
Good for you. But I sure wish that my renters's son (who confronted the guys in the process of what looked like the beginning of the rape of a defenseless young woman) had had a gun. He just might still be here today. As it is the punk azz gangstahs "popped a cap in his azz", and now he is a worm farm somewhere in California. I say clean the scum out with deadly force. Use our Navy Seals here where we need them, and start exterminating the vermin. Mother rapers and father stabbers need to go.....
Jonny, at what point do you draw the line? Are you gonna go after the 'upstanding pillar of the community' who rapes the neighborhood kids? I sure didn't hear this sentiment out of you concerning Rich U. and those who protected/protect him...
We had gangs, they didn't have clever names but they were called things like
Italians, Irish, Puerto Rican, Colored (because that is what the nice name was), Cubans, etc.
We had run ins but we mostly new where not to go and what not to do. Called street smarts.
The thing back then was that even the toughest gangster had a mother and a father who when called home for dinner would run because if they lolly gaged they would get a arse whoppin.
It was the family back then that even though there were gangs the over riding force in an individuals life was his or her's family.
Today the gang is the family, what do we expect "It takes a neighborhood gang to raise a child"
Look, I am not going line by line as I do not have the time. I do have the brain power and the words to respond but I have to go to work.
YES, when I went WOW I was in VERY bad communities and I inviited very confused people into my home for fellowship. In DC we went into the worst areas and met people who had murdered other people. WE embraced the hookers and the addicts.
Here is the thing. NOT one of them changed. They had a chance, they had a place to change. Instead, I had them sneak into my bedroom and steal from me. And I STILL opened my door.
Bottom line is
I worked VERY hard to get a home with an acre and a half. I choose NOT to live in the city. I did NOT want to be in the buzz, the crime or anything else. I drive a distance to work for that privellage and for the saftey. I obey the rules. (now, you can pull apart each statement saying what makes me think you do not -- I am not talking of you I am now speaking of me, you gave us your perspective)
I am not, at the advent of these punks comming into my HOME or neighborhood, going to allow it. Nor will I NOT have protection.
IF you are arguing about guns -- I will never change my position and I assume you will not either.
I am not talking about the poor inner city kids -- the cities have them. I am not talking about how they need direction -- they do.
I am talking about arriving in the burbs with their paint, destruction and attitudes about how America owes them something... or about how little regard they have for what people worked their lives for--
If you want to embrace them and love them into change -- you go girl and may God bless you in your efforts.
I am only concerned right now about nipping this in the bud.
You may nnot be where I am physically or mentally and that is fine.
But I will not hand over my America to anyone who comes into my life and demands to ruin it, frighten me out of it or wave guns to take it. I will fight back. Perhaps the fighting back by offering commumnity centers works where you are or even here.
I am DONE with opening my heart and home to strangers. I am not going WOW again and I am not corps on a misson.
I just want the community to be the way it was a little while ago prior to the ilegal people and the KAatrina gangs moved in.
PERIOD.
Let's see --
I can go out and start a group to rehibilitate the kids
OR I can run them out by saying "no way"
I choose the latter
I am sure many choose the first.
That is fine.
I am not stupid enough to think that the only problem with the secrets of the family only being an Aunt Eve who is a lesbian, I am not that stupid nor have I been that sheltered That is another topic. The topic here is gangs not Uncle Johnny and his secret who is just as evil.
I am speaking of my neighborhood under attack and how to push it out at the onset.
So you pulled White Flight and it didn't work. ::shrug:: It never does.
Dot, there is no way on God's green earth that you can seriously say that when you went WOW you were offering people anything more than another con that they saw right through. Well, you can say it, but if you believe it, then that explains a whole lot about why they ripped you off. "Here you pathetic ragamuffin devil spirit in the form of a criminal, I've got ALL THE ANSWERS TO FIX YOU! Just drink this koolaid-like drink and follow the yellow brick road I'm gonna take you down...Glawry!" "Sure, sis, anything you say. Just make sure you show me the layout of your house because while you're being holier than me and drinking poisoned koolaid-like drinks, I'm gonna show you what the real world is like." Lessee...you were in a cult, they were in a gang....you were pushing mind/soul/spirit poison, they were pushing to get your belongings away from you...
Don't you think that people KNOW when you're condescending, arrogant and holier-than-thou towards them?
In the end, you've got a choice: become a gang unto yourself or learn a better way.
If you choose the former, don't beetch when they come for you. (This is referring to a Martin Niemoller quote.)
Jonny, at what point do you draw the line? Are you gonna go after the 'upstanding pillar of the community' who rapes the neighborhood kids? I sure didn't hear this sentiment out of you concerning Rich U. and those who protected/protect him..
Coolwaters, that was total bull s h it! You are so wrong you make me sick. Maybe you are totally unbalanced to make a comment like that. I will never respect your opinion again, ever. I was not even in Alaska when Rich U and Steven D molested those kids. I had moved to Oklahoma to run a branch and heard about it down there. And when I heard of it I was sickened, and made the comment to my wife that the sick bastards should have had their nuts cut off and that the LC should have been thrown in jail. That LC and I were not buddies at all, and we were constantly at odds. I had a major bone to pick with that LC about other things, and it didn't surprise me at all when I learned later that he had allowed those guys to run a children's fellowship. And when we were in Alaska, I asked GK the LC numerous times; "Why do you let that guy run a twig? He is just so weird!" And he would just laugh it off and make jokes about his weirdness. And I'd tell him that he was too weird to run a twig, but to no avail. I had no idea that Rich was running a children's fellowship. I just thought he was a local twig leader with some military people in it. Sorry CW if I wasn't spiritual enough to know that he was a molester. And, I didn't live in Anchorage, I lived in Kenai, down on the Peninsula, a three hour drive away. I wasn't very much up on the Anchorage goins ons. I only saw bits and pieces, because I only came up periodically for meetings, and was always very happy that I didn't have to live up there. By the time I heard about it, the guys were already in jail and I thought that America's weak form of justice was served. I thought that at the least, they should have been de-nutted, but our system just doesn't work that way now does it? But how would you have known what I thought? I didn't kow you, and once again, I wasn't even in the state. Shame on you for your comment!
It seems that you CW have a thing about getting the "upstanding pillars of the community", which you may well have reason to go after. Personally, I think all crime, white collar, blue collar, gang crime, drug crime, all crime, should be stopped if possible. The subject here is "gangs", and that aspect of crime should be wiped out if possible. Now, were we to be on a subject of pedophilia, I would voice the same if not more extreme sentiments.
You crossed the line with that one CW. I can forgive you for it, but I will never trust you or respect your opinions, for it seems that your opinions are tainted with negative experiences and your emotions do not allow you to be able to see clearly and cause you to make stupid and hurtful judgements about people whom you know nothing about, as in this case with me. Selah
I was not accusing you. I wasn't even referring to that actual time period. I said, "I sure didn't hear this sentiment out of you concerning Rich U. and those who protected/protect him..." Referring to things you have said on these treads. That's all.
MY POINT was what I said, "Jonny, at what point do you draw the line?"
And that's STILL my point.
What do you think makes a person turn to gangs?
The reality of things is that one cannot separate the cause from the effect.
Pedophilia is such an insidious crime that some statistics say 1 out of every 2 homes in America must deal with this problem.
But that's not the only thing that can lead a person to gangs. Do you know what gang members have said led them to gangs?
Again I ask you: At what point do you draw the line?
As for you respecting me or not...
I never assumed you did in the first place. I have learned that if someone actually respects me in the first place, then it's not so easily lost.
Coolwaters, sounds like you really hate white people and want to blame them for everything wrong in the world. Me, I really hate prejudiced people. And before you say anything, if I remember correctly, you are white. I've known a number of white people, mostly women who hate white people though, and that kind of prejudice makes me just as sick as a neo-nazi skinhead would.
I have nothing more to say to you. You are a liar.
Oh lawd...if I can't be cawed and bullied by saying you don't trust or respect me, call me a liar.
What did I lie about? That you've never expressed that you want the Navy Seals to explode in upon a twig meeting and shoot to kill the twig leader because he's a pedophile? Well, you haven't.
It's too easy to let things break down into a battle. It's the ease of the lazy...criminal or otherwise.
Coolwaters, sounds like you really hate white people and want to blame them for everything wrong in the world. Me, I really hate prejudiced people. And before you say anything, if I remember correctly, you are white. I've known a number of white people, mostly women who hate white people though, and that kind of prejudice makes me just as sick as a neo-nazi skinhead would.
Rick
What I hate, Rick, is people who complain about everybody else's crap stinking while saying they themselves don't crap at all.
Big, HUGE difference between hating white people and hating that mentality...which, in my life's experience, is uniquely white.
Yes, I'm white...partly. I'm more a mutt. Like my daughter, my son, my granddaughter, my husband and probably more people than want to admit it.
Cool, you know that I think an awfull lot of you. I want to gently ask you a question. Not because I want to offend, but simply for you to consider.
Could it be that your difficult personal experiences color your perception of innocent people and their attitudes and views concerning race?
People who chose to fight the incursions of these criminals into their neighborhoods are not racist...nobody notices the skin color here...it is the crime and violence that these gangs bring with them. It isn`t a race issue....We have the right to say *no, I do not want that here where I live*.
I can be strongly anti gang and not be a racist pig.
I can carry a fire arm to protect myself and family, and not be a lunatic vigilante.
I can fight to keep the gangs and the criminal element out of my neighborhood and not be a heartless monster.
I think that these gangs, and the violence and crime that accompany their chosen life style flourish when they are not fought vehemently by those who value our homes, our families and our communities. I think that the crime that they foist upon us, the innocent citizens, is to be combated as harshly with any means at our disposal, as we would rapists, child molesters, murderers, in short, the people who chose to violate us and our loved ones.
Your arguments could be turned around and applied to any criminal element of society. Would you feel the same if it was child molesters that Dot was fighting against in her neighborhood?
Would you tell her that she must be more understanding of the underlying causes of their situation and spend mega bucks on new buildings and activities to hopefully keep them otherwise occupied?
I don`t think that we should have to put up with these criminals, get along and let them live beside us as long as they treat us personally ok?
We have rules to live in peacefully in this society, we shouldn`t have to lay them aside because the violent games are overwhelming and we just simply want to *survive*.
What you guys did in your area that was already over run by the violence was admirable, probably the best that could be done once the gangs were entrenched and strong.
However, I think that these people that chose to live this life style has to be fought aggressively BEFORE it gets to the level that you described, and that Dott is doing a very noble thing in taking proactive action in refusing to even allow the graffitti that represents these criminals in her part of the town.
It simply isn`t a racist thing to want to be safe and protect our neighborhoods which include, any who want to abide by our rules, regardless of their ethnicity.
Of all people in the world I know, I know for certain that there is respect between you and I...and that we both think a lot about one another. And I thank you very much for this!
Maybe it's not about race. I wasn't thinking it was until I went to the link posted...where I found comments like this: "Spreading from El Salvador to L.A. and across the United States, Mara Salvatrucha 13 is increasingly well organized and deadly." and, "Mara Salvatrucha 13 (MS-13) is unfortunately becoming everybody’s problem. This plague that came to Long Island from El Salvador by way of the streets of Los Angeles follows the same migratory patterns as the Salvadoran immigrant community that it preys upon, fanning out across the United States from ethnic enclaves in California."
Yeah...that got me disjointed. Unfairly? I dunno...most of what I've seen posted here at GSC concerning the problems in this particular poster's life usually boils down to race...and sometimes other things that make people 'undesirable' in some way...like being poor, being gay, being something not acceptable to that person's world...that isn't crime.
And the race issue came up again in this person's posts on this very thread. Along with the gay issue. A couple of other non-criminal issues, too.
That seemingly innocent mixing up of issues just sux, imo. It reveals to me that a person is NOT looking for a solution, but is really looking for a way to sterilize their world of anything non-WASPy. IMO.
And the person has said as much on this thread.
I care for this person, so I took the time to try and offer alternatives that have worked in many, many neighborhoods across the country...and that I have personally seen work quite well in my neighborhoods.
In return, I got scathing accusations, revealing of private information, called names, etc. Not by this particular person straight up (meaning that it was insinuated, not said straight out), but by those who think they're doing good to defend this person from horrible, horrible me.
My gawd, rascal, if people can't deal with the likes of me without breaking down into name calling and other provocative behavior, what do you think they're like in 3D? Can you imagine such behavior in 3D? Especially when interacting with those one openly disdains?
I don't have all the answers, thankfully. I don't know all the solutions, thankfully. I do, however, have some answers...and those answers have proven repeatedly to work. And I do, however, have some solutions...and those solutions have proven repeatedly to actually solve the problems instead of provoking worse problems.
I learned these things the hard way, too. I grew up in white suburbia with privilege I never knew I had until I lived outside of white suburbia. Part of the attraction to twi for me was the very concept that believing=receiving...that people get what they deserve in life, so if one is getting a bum's rap, one deserves a bum's rap...or to be sick, or poor, or treated like a leper, or whatever. Having gawd on my side while I went around telling people what they needed to fix themselves just made it all the better for me, too...or so I thought until I had to deal with reality and got my a$$ kicked (literally and figuratively) over and over again until it finally dawned on me that maybe what I was doing wasn't working so well.
How would I feel if this topic were about pedophiles and the sentiments expressed were directed at pedophiles? I am surprised that you have to ask, rascal. What surprises me is that if you're asking, then somewhere along the line I've expressed that I want to arm myself and shoot to kill and call in a military extermination team to deal with pedophiles. If I have ever stated such a thing, it was outside of my nature and I am ashamed of saying such things. How to deal with pedophiles is one of the answers and one of the solutions that I don't have. I do know that violence is a 'solution' I've chosen in my adult life not more than five times...and none of those times was it against a pedophile...not even the perpetrator who hurt my daughter...and none of those times involved any weapon of any kind. Each and every time I chose violence, I only escalated the situation nearly to the point of no return.
Violence begets violence. If both sides are armed and willing to shoot to kill, the line between 'criminal' and 'concerned citizen' gets blurred all too quickly...and the reasons to shoot to kill become more and more about personal prejudices and less and less about 'right' and 'wrong'.
In the beginning, it sounds all nice and upright to want to kill those who are willing to kill.
But wait a minute...if the 'good guys' are willing to kill, then who is going to shoot to kill them? The 'bad guys'? Then are more 'good guys' going to come along to shoot to kill those 'bad guys'? And then who is going to come along to shoot to kill those who shot to kill those who shot to kill those who shot to kill?
"Ah," one might say, "I know where to draw the line."
Nobody has yet to answer me about just where is that line drawn.
And as far as Dot taking proactive action, she's not. All she's doing is complaining. Not once has she even considered organizing a group of off-duty cops to clean up the tag graffiti.
BTW...I will be unable to reply for a few hours from this point so I will cover it in one post for the time being.
Rude is something we seem to enjoy around here when we need to releases some tension.
When some of us reply around here it is obvious it is not our minds at work.
Did I need to read the whole thread to know there were some butts showing?
If my comment of which many people would have laughed at and sat back and went...hmmm maybe there is something to that was so rude then do not read me anymore...I rarely post anyway.
And to Paw or anyone else here that had better manners in the whole exchange I apologize to you if in fact you felt my comment was rude.
My friends know me good enough to understand my humor or lack thereof!
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rhino
Wow CW ... glad you survived all those bullets ... life is good.
Sounds like an interesting story, maybe even pertinent here. Still, unless you have a real reason, it would be hard to stay in a neighborhood like that.
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washingtonweather
Well, I live in an area of the world that has had Latino/Hispanc gangs a long time--you are affected by gangs directly or indirectly inour soceity. One has to be savy and not naive.
I hatem...but that said...sadly these are where the kids go because the older kids and adults and yes even grandparents in the gangs pay some kind of attention.
Albuquerque, NM has its share and yes many are from Central America and that other country -- umm Oh yeah Los Angeles. The other huge criminal population is a Cuban area. There are lots of sweet people who live in the same neighborhoods, but even they hate what they have done to their neighborhoods. My husband works for Qwest.-- the phone company. It takes him all over. There is a part of Albuquerque caled the war zone, mostly the LA gangs and the Cuban drug dealers live there. The city has built blockades into what was 4 way stops t prevent fast "getaway" traffic, Hubby leaves these areas before sunset in the better weather and is glad for winter, because they are not as active. He has been working on a phone box only to see some pimpy car drive up with a machine gun ou the window and he stopswhat he is doing and gets in his van and leaves. The nice people don't go out of their houses. The housewives like it when he comes, because they can't even go out to speak with neighbors for fear of whatever--and there are many whatevers. When we first moved here, we lived in a poorer area and there is a gang called the 12th st. gang. They initiate girls by getting them to steal purses in grocery stores. Mine was one of the purses, and my 10 moth old was right next to the purse. I even had my hand on the cart. Scary -- since then we have moved pretty far away from that area.
Now all that said..look at how our government is handling the prosecution of gangs - Marshal's are prosecuting the Border Patrol guards for busting these scummy gang drug dealers.....And don't for one minute think they are not working for a gang...nobody does it by themelves anymore -- its just a modern equivalent of the Mafia with more friendly fire.
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CoolWaters
rhino,
It's hard, no doubt. We still live in a pretty active 'gang' type area...nothing quite as bad as Topeka, though.
But you know what was harder for me? Living in white suburbia where there was no crime on the streets...it was all kept inside the homes, behind closed doors, secret and deadly.
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Dot Matrix
Coolw
You lead a very different life than I do. If I lived in a home with "The house we had in Topeka still has several .45 rounds in the front of it...and many more .38 and .22 rounds in other walls." And a neighborhood with wood on the windows etc. you damn well better believe I would be packing. I would retake karate and I would save my money to move.
It is easy to get used to that and I am sure some people can actually sleep with sirens and red lights flashing --- but like in my cousin Vinny - he needed all of that to feel peaceful because he was used to it. I prefer the annoying crickets and bleeping owls.
Or
I would much prefer a nice street in a nice neighborhood where the neighbor bakes a pie for no reason and gives it to you on a Thursday.
I would never feel comfortable in a gang area. And I would always try to leave. And if my creepy neighbors treated me just fine but had a secret about their Aunt Eve because she dates other woman -- well they can have their family secrets. But you come taking your violence and crime into my neighborhood and I will protect myself and what is mine.
Perhaps you prefer to live in these places, for whatever reason I do not. And I do not think America was suppose to be a frightened country letting gun toting children hog tie you and steal your belongings.
Now, your method of changes the gang life I salute. You did an admirable job.
But my goal is to NEVER EVER live in an area where "The house we had in Topeka still has several .45 rounds in the front of it...and many more .38 and .22 rounds in other walls." And in an effort to stop that we have to protect what we worked so hard to achieve. Not give it to a bunch of punks and hope in 7 years things will be better.
This is not a slam to you just painfully different view points.
We opened up a youth center directly across the street along with a library.
What happened more and more groups of kids are congregating on the corners and the gang signs are being painted.
If a GANG member is not here legally, I would just as soon drive his azz back across the border myself -- but our cowardly ACLU would hire 45 lawyers to protect his "rights" which the illegals in effect gave up when they entered the country illegally.
So, I am for locking them up, for breaking them up and for protecting me and mine anyway I have to.
I salute your methods that you employed and they worked for you. I am not letting this take root, if I can help it.
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J0nny Ling0
Good for you. But I sure wish that my renters's son (who confronted the guys in the process of what looked like the beginning of the rape of a defenseless young woman) had had a gun. He just might still be here today. As it is the punk azz gangstahs "popped a cap in his azz", and now he is a worm farm somewhere in California. I say clean the scum out with deadly force. Use our Navy Seals here where we need them, and start exterminating the vermin. Mother rapers and father stabbers need to go.....
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herbiejuan
Dot you need to move west.
CC has a Latinos United Org. that has solid connections in the county government. It seens the county got an up close look at potential gang problems and started looking at what might help in preventing an outbreak of crime associated with gang activity and other issues of the latino population, simply accepting the facts of a situation goes along ways towards solving the problem at hand. They have english and ged classes and have a legal help line, I've been asked to help but so far I'm pretty much impressed by what they are doing on their own. I cannot say much on this program success as it is new and was implimented before a gang problem existed but I think it is a hopeful program and certainly founded on a common interest. I'm keeping my eye open for project and funding opportunities but alot of that will depend on the needs of the community.
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herbiejuan
Are you guys still arguing over guns?
I have carried since '86 I have dealt with many interesting situations and thankfully only needed to pull it in earnest once. In that situation, in 95 or 6 I think I was at a gathering and things looked weird so I went to my car n got my gun so I could exit my family from the premises without much fuss. Thankfully that wasn't necessary and thanks to you all we can all rest better.
I'm not a big fan of the Clint Eastwood approach to solving social issues.
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CoolWaters
Jonny, at what point do you draw the line? Are you gonna go after the 'upstanding pillar of the community' who rapes the neighborhood kids? I sure didn't hear this sentiment out of you concerning Rich U. and those who protected/protect him...
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griffp
I just gotta jump in.
I grew up in the sixties in New York City
We had gangs, they didn't have clever names but they were called things like
Italians, Irish, Puerto Rican, Colored (because that is what the nice name was), Cubans, etc.
We had run ins but we mostly new where not to go and what not to do. Called street smarts.
The thing back then was that even the toughest gangster had a mother and a father who when called home for dinner would run because if they lolly gaged they would get a arse whoppin.
It was the family back then that even though there were gangs the over riding force in an individuals life was his or her's family.
Today the gang is the family, what do we expect "It takes a neighborhood gang to raise a child"
Oh well times they are a changin'.
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Dot Matrix
Coolwaters
Look, I am not going line by line as I do not have the time. I do have the brain power and the words to respond but I have to go to work.
YES, when I went WOW I was in VERY bad communities and I inviited very confused people into my home for fellowship. In DC we went into the worst areas and met people who had murdered other people. WE embraced the hookers and the addicts.
Here is the thing. NOT one of them changed. They had a chance, they had a place to change. Instead, I had them sneak into my bedroom and steal from me. And I STILL opened my door.
Bottom line is
I worked VERY hard to get a home with an acre and a half. I choose NOT to live in the city. I did NOT want to be in the buzz, the crime or anything else. I drive a distance to work for that privellage and for the saftey. I obey the rules. (now, you can pull apart each statement saying what makes me think you do not -- I am not talking of you I am now speaking of me, you gave us your perspective)
I am not, at the advent of these punks comming into my HOME or neighborhood, going to allow it. Nor will I NOT have protection.
IF you are arguing about guns -- I will never change my position and I assume you will not either.
I am not talking about the poor inner city kids -- the cities have them. I am not talking about how they need direction -- they do.
I am talking about arriving in the burbs with their paint, destruction and attitudes about how America owes them something... or about how little regard they have for what people worked their lives for--
If you want to embrace them and love them into change -- you go girl and may God bless you in your efforts.
I am only concerned right now about nipping this in the bud.
You may nnot be where I am physically or mentally and that is fine.
But I will not hand over my America to anyone who comes into my life and demands to ruin it, frighten me out of it or wave guns to take it. I will fight back. Perhaps the fighting back by offering commumnity centers works where you are or even here.
I am DONE with opening my heart and home to strangers. I am not going WOW again and I am not corps on a misson.
I just want the community to be the way it was a little while ago prior to the ilegal people and the KAatrina gangs moved in.
PERIOD.
Let's see --
I can go out and start a group to rehibilitate the kids
OR I can run them out by saying "no way"
I choose the latter
I am sure many choose the first.
That is fine.
I am not stupid enough to think that the only problem with the secrets of the family only being an Aunt Eve who is a lesbian, I am not that stupid nor have I been that sheltered That is another topic. The topic here is gangs not Uncle Johnny and his secret who is just as evil.
I am speaking of my neighborhood under attack and how to push it out at the onset.
We have different ideas
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CoolWaters
So you pulled White Flight and it didn't work. ::shrug:: It never does.
Dot, there is no way on God's green earth that you can seriously say that when you went WOW you were offering people anything more than another con that they saw right through. Well, you can say it, but if you believe it, then that explains a whole lot about why they ripped you off. "Here you pathetic ragamuffin devil spirit in the form of a criminal, I've got ALL THE ANSWERS TO FIX YOU! Just drink this koolaid-like drink and follow the yellow brick road I'm gonna take you down...Glawry!" "Sure, sis, anything you say. Just make sure you show me the layout of your house because while you're being holier than me and drinking poisoned koolaid-like drinks, I'm gonna show you what the real world is like." Lessee...you were in a cult, they were in a gang....you were pushing mind/soul/spirit poison, they were pushing to get your belongings away from you...
Don't you think that people KNOW when you're condescending, arrogant and holier-than-thou towards them?
In the end, you've got a choice: become a gang unto yourself or learn a better way.
If you choose the former, don't beetch when they come for you. (This is referring to a Martin Niemoller quote.)
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J0nny Ling0
But I will deal with this one:
Coolwaters, that was total bull s h it! You are so wrong you make me sick. Maybe you are totally unbalanced to make a comment like that. I will never respect your opinion again, ever. I was not even in Alaska when Rich U and Steven D molested those kids. I had moved to Oklahoma to run a branch and heard about it down there. And when I heard of it I was sickened, and made the comment to my wife that the sick bastards should have had their nuts cut off and that the LC should have been thrown in jail. That LC and I were not buddies at all, and we were constantly at odds. I had a major bone to pick with that LC about other things, and it didn't surprise me at all when I learned later that he had allowed those guys to run a children's fellowship. And when we were in Alaska, I asked GK the LC numerous times; "Why do you let that guy run a twig? He is just so weird!" And he would just laugh it off and make jokes about his weirdness. And I'd tell him that he was too weird to run a twig, but to no avail. I had no idea that Rich was running a children's fellowship. I just thought he was a local twig leader with some military people in it. Sorry CW if I wasn't spiritual enough to know that he was a molester. And, I didn't live in Anchorage, I lived in Kenai, down on the Peninsula, a three hour drive away. I wasn't very much up on the Anchorage goins ons. I only saw bits and pieces, because I only came up periodically for meetings, and was always very happy that I didn't have to live up there. By the time I heard about it, the guys were already in jail and I thought that America's weak form of justice was served. I thought that at the least, they should have been de-nutted, but our system just doesn't work that way now does it? But how would you have known what I thought? I didn't kow you, and once again, I wasn't even in the state. Shame on you for your comment!
It seems that you CW have a thing about getting the "upstanding pillars of the community", which you may well have reason to go after. Personally, I think all crime, white collar, blue collar, gang crime, drug crime, all crime, should be stopped if possible. The subject here is "gangs", and that aspect of crime should be wiped out if possible. Now, were we to be on a subject of pedophilia, I would voice the same if not more extreme sentiments.
You crossed the line with that one CW. I can forgive you for it, but I will never trust you or respect your opinions, for it seems that your opinions are tainted with negative experiences and your emotions do not allow you to be able to see clearly and cause you to make stupid and hurtful judgements about people whom you know nothing about, as in this case with me. Selah
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CoolWaters
Jonny,
I was not accusing you. I wasn't even referring to that actual time period. I said, "I sure didn't hear this sentiment out of you concerning Rich U. and those who protected/protect him..." Referring to things you have said on these treads. That's all.
MY POINT was what I said, "Jonny, at what point do you draw the line?"
And that's STILL my point.
What do you think makes a person turn to gangs?
The reality of things is that one cannot separate the cause from the effect.
Pedophilia is such an insidious crime that some statistics say 1 out of every 2 homes in America must deal with this problem.
But that's not the only thing that can lead a person to gangs. Do you know what gang members have said led them to gangs?
Again I ask you: At what point do you draw the line?
As for you respecting me or not...
I never assumed you did in the first place. I have learned that if someone actually respects me in the first place, then it's not so easily lost.
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J0nny Ling0
I have nothing more to say to you. You are a liar.
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Bluzeman
Coolwaters, sounds like you really hate white people and want to blame them for everything wrong in the world. Me, I really hate prejudiced people. And before you say anything, if I remember correctly, you are white. I've known a number of white people, mostly women who hate white people though, and that kind of prejudice makes me just as sick as a neo-nazi skinhead would.
Rick
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CoolWaters
Oh lawd...if I can't be cawed and bullied by saying you don't trust or respect me, call me a liar.
What did I lie about? That you've never expressed that you want the Navy Seals to explode in upon a twig meeting and shoot to kill the twig leader because he's a pedophile? Well, you haven't.
It's too easy to let things break down into a battle. It's the ease of the lazy...criminal or otherwise.
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CoolWaters
What I hate, Rick, is people who complain about everybody else's crap stinking while saying they themselves don't crap at all.
Big, HUGE difference between hating white people and hating that mentality...which, in my life's experience, is uniquely white.
Yes, I'm white...partly. I'm more a mutt. Like my daughter, my son, my granddaughter, my husband and probably more people than want to admit it.
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rascal
Cool, you know that I think an awfull lot of you. I want to gently ask you a question. Not because I want to offend, but simply for you to consider.
Could it be that your difficult personal experiences color your perception of innocent people and their attitudes and views concerning race?
People who chose to fight the incursions of these criminals into their neighborhoods are not racist...nobody notices the skin color here...it is the crime and violence that these gangs bring with them. It isn`t a race issue....We have the right to say *no, I do not want that here where I live*.
I can be strongly anti gang and not be a racist pig.
I can carry a fire arm to protect myself and family, and not be a lunatic vigilante.
I can fight to keep the gangs and the criminal element out of my neighborhood and not be a heartless monster.
I think that these gangs, and the violence and crime that accompany their chosen life style flourish when they are not fought vehemently by those who value our homes, our families and our communities. I think that the crime that they foist upon us, the innocent citizens, is to be combated as harshly with any means at our disposal, as we would rapists, child molesters, murderers, in short, the people who chose to violate us and our loved ones.
Your arguments could be turned around and applied to any criminal element of society. Would you feel the same if it was child molesters that Dot was fighting against in her neighborhood?
Would you tell her that she must be more understanding of the underlying causes of their situation and spend mega bucks on new buildings and activities to hopefully keep them otherwise occupied?
I don`t think that we should have to put up with these criminals, get along and let them live beside us as long as they treat us personally ok?
We have rules to live in peacefully in this society, we shouldn`t have to lay them aside because the violent games are overwhelming and we just simply want to *survive*.
What you guys did in your area that was already over run by the violence was admirable, probably the best that could be done once the gangs were entrenched and strong.
However, I think that these people that chose to live this life style has to be fought aggressively BEFORE it gets to the level that you described, and that Dott is doing a very noble thing in taking proactive action in refusing to even allow the graffitti that represents these criminals in her part of the town.
It simply isn`t a racist thing to want to be safe and protect our neighborhoods which include, any who want to abide by our rules, regardless of their ethnicity.
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ChattyKathy
I'm certain I was not the first rude person on this thread but I'll delete it nonetheless!
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CoolWaters
rascal,
Of all people in the world I know, I know for certain that there is respect between you and I...and that we both think a lot about one another. And I thank you very much for this!
Maybe it's not about race. I wasn't thinking it was until I went to the link posted...where I found comments like this: "Spreading from El Salvador to L.A. and across the United States, Mara Salvatrucha 13 is increasingly well organized and deadly." and, "Mara Salvatrucha 13 (MS-13) is unfortunately becoming everybody’s problem. This plague that came to Long Island from El Salvador by way of the streets of Los Angeles follows the same migratory patterns as the Salvadoran immigrant community that it preys upon, fanning out across the United States from ethnic enclaves in California."
Yeah...that got me disjointed. Unfairly? I dunno...most of what I've seen posted here at GSC concerning the problems in this particular poster's life usually boils down to race...and sometimes other things that make people 'undesirable' in some way...like being poor, being gay, being something not acceptable to that person's world...that isn't crime.
And the race issue came up again in this person's posts on this very thread. Along with the gay issue. A couple of other non-criminal issues, too.
That seemingly innocent mixing up of issues just sux, imo. It reveals to me that a person is NOT looking for a solution, but is really looking for a way to sterilize their world of anything non-WASPy. IMO.
And the person has said as much on this thread.
I care for this person, so I took the time to try and offer alternatives that have worked in many, many neighborhoods across the country...and that I have personally seen work quite well in my neighborhoods.
In return, I got scathing accusations, revealing of private information, called names, etc. Not by this particular person straight up (meaning that it was insinuated, not said straight out), but by those who think they're doing good to defend this person from horrible, horrible me.
My gawd, rascal, if people can't deal with the likes of me without breaking down into name calling and other provocative behavior, what do you think they're like in 3D? Can you imagine such behavior in 3D? Especially when interacting with those one openly disdains?
I don't have all the answers, thankfully. I don't know all the solutions, thankfully. I do, however, have some answers...and those answers have proven repeatedly to work. And I do, however, have some solutions...and those solutions have proven repeatedly to actually solve the problems instead of provoking worse problems.
I learned these things the hard way, too. I grew up in white suburbia with privilege I never knew I had until I lived outside of white suburbia. Part of the attraction to twi for me was the very concept that believing=receiving...that people get what they deserve in life, so if one is getting a bum's rap, one deserves a bum's rap...or to be sick, or poor, or treated like a leper, or whatever. Having gawd on my side while I went around telling people what they needed to fix themselves just made it all the better for me, too...or so I thought until I had to deal with reality and got my a$$ kicked (literally and figuratively) over and over again until it finally dawned on me that maybe what I was doing wasn't working so well.
How would I feel if this topic were about pedophiles and the sentiments expressed were directed at pedophiles? I am surprised that you have to ask, rascal. What surprises me is that if you're asking, then somewhere along the line I've expressed that I want to arm myself and shoot to kill and call in a military extermination team to deal with pedophiles. If I have ever stated such a thing, it was outside of my nature and I am ashamed of saying such things. How to deal with pedophiles is one of the answers and one of the solutions that I don't have. I do know that violence is a 'solution' I've chosen in my adult life not more than five times...and none of those times was it against a pedophile...not even the perpetrator who hurt my daughter...and none of those times involved any weapon of any kind. Each and every time I chose violence, I only escalated the situation nearly to the point of no return.
Violence begets violence. If both sides are armed and willing to shoot to kill, the line between 'criminal' and 'concerned citizen' gets blurred all too quickly...and the reasons to shoot to kill become more and more about personal prejudices and less and less about 'right' and 'wrong'.
In the beginning, it sounds all nice and upright to want to kill those who are willing to kill.
But wait a minute...if the 'good guys' are willing to kill, then who is going to shoot to kill them? The 'bad guys'? Then are more 'good guys' going to come along to shoot to kill those 'bad guys'? And then who is going to come along to shoot to kill those who shot to kill those who shot to kill those who shot to kill?
"Ah," one might say, "I know where to draw the line."
Nobody has yet to answer me about just where is that line drawn.
And as far as Dot taking proactive action, she's not. All she's doing is complaining. Not once has she even considered organizing a group of off-duty cops to clean up the tag graffiti.
That's a very telling thing, imo.
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copenhagen
To add a little insight of peoples opnion.
My wife and I moved to a nice neiborhood where there were a lot of kids and older people.
In a few years all the kids grew up, now we have packs of 12-15 year old boys roaming the streets. If you come home
at 10:00 at night they are on the street corner. Spray paint where they hang.
One boy who is a good kid by nature, wakes himself up early feeds his two little sisters and gets them on the bus
for school.He runs with the other boys who hang on the street corner at night.
I think at times they deal drugs.
My wife likes him and admires him for what he does for his family and has a soft hart for him.
I am white and all these boys are black, but 5 years ago they were just kids in my neighborhood.
Now when they walk in a pack of 5-10 down the street bouncing a basketball people are afraid. THe boys try
to put fear in people with their actions.
I asked my wife if they were mexican would you be afraid. Answer yes.
I asked if they were white would you be afraid, she really thought about it. mabye. Then yes.
People of there own color relate better to their own color when it comes to fear.
These were the same kids we used to like, what changed their attitude and not caring about their neiborhood and total lack of respect
for others. We were changed by the kids because they changed. Car breakins, theft and you see them with the items the stole.
Now we want to move.
I would personally like to kick a lot of these lil puncks azz. I am for packing a gun and defending my family.
I would not mind putting the fear in these punks and show them what it takes to be a man.
My words have no impact they dont listen anymore.
Would I like to help them, yes. But like the coffee mug I got for christmas says U CANT HELP STUPID.
Am I a biggiot no, I judge people if they are an azzhole or not. They just happen to be of a diffrent color with a bad attitude.
copenhagen
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krys
That's plain rude.
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ChattyKathy
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ChattyKathy
BTW...I will be unable to reply for a few hours from this point so I will cover it in one post for the time being.
Rude is something we seem to enjoy around here when we need to releases some tension.
When some of us reply around here it is obvious it is not our minds at work.
Did I need to read the whole thread to know there were some butts showing?
If my comment of which many people would have laughed at and sat back and went...hmmm maybe there is something to that was so rude then do not read me anymore...I rarely post anyway.
And to Paw or anyone else here that had better manners in the whole exchange I apologize to you if in fact you felt my comment was rude.
My friends know me good enough to understand my humor or lack thereof!
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