Actually I don't mean to say willingly when I mean fitting in to stereotypes. Some people fit stereotypical personas and don't acknowledge it because they think it's their God-given right to act the way they do. Say for instance, a person who is obnoxious and loud and disruptive in public may not like that they are offensive. There may be several names a person like this could be called, and that person will not like that they are called names. "Rude, obnoxious, and loud" could be the stereotype. If the stereotype fits and they don't like it, then change.
That's just an example.
I went to a department store one day and was trying on clothes in the dressing room. Two teenage girls come in to the dressing room with a small boy about 2. They were picking on the boy and yelling at the top of their lungs "Mama!!! Mama!!! Come look at this dress!!" It was very disturbing. The little boy was crying because of them pickinig on him. After the girl yelled 3 times at the top of her lung, I said "Your mom can't hear you. Quet down." She told me "Don't YOU tell me what to do!!!" I came out of the dressing room and told her to stop picking on the boy. She told me "Don YOU tell me what to do!!!" I rolled my eyes and left to her screaming "Don't YOU roll your eyes at me!!!"
I got 3 aisles. Here the girl comes with her mama. The girl is saying "That's the one." The mama comes up to confront me.
She says "You have no righ to tell my daughter what to do.
I said "Your daughter was acting in a manner that you may not be pleased with and was very disruptive to those around her, AND she was picking on the little boy, making him cry."
She said "You don't tell my child what to do. Little boys were meant to be toughened up."
I said "Obviously we have different opinions."
I walked away.
That lady gave her daughter title to act like an arse in public. That is a shame. My mother would have kicked my arse for that kind of behaviour because it is disrespectful.
I think I was targeted because I was white.
Notta, you're not including those who fit the stereotype of oh, let's say 'retard' or any other such stereotype?
You know what? I think I may have to agree that you were targeted because you were white. Do you have any clue as to why?
Somehow my post before Notta's got split and put into that last post to Notta.
gad, and gadzooks! People here are worked up over the word "bidness" as being supposedly low class and an undesirable word for upwardly mobile youth? Yet not one word is espoused concerning the flagrant use of the F word by others? What's up with that? it's sad and unbecoming coming from anyone. Is there a place to put an R or X rating on this OPEN FORUM THREAD?
Wow Cool One you seem to be having a bad day here. We have known each other for many years and managed to survive it. Perhaps it is Break Time? This is messing with me seeing Jonny be good and you being BBQ'd it’s just not right I thought the world may be coming to an end. I'm sure I must have hit the wrong button somewhere as this is uncharacteristic of you dear.
Now for the record I live in Topeka and have no bullet holes in my house never have. And my weapon of choice is a crossbow it’s quiet (except for the screams) and there is just something unnerving about arrows flying around.
Wow Cool One you seem to be having a bad day here. We have known each other for many years and managed to survive it. Perhaps it is Break Time? This is messing with me seeing Jonny be good and you being BBQ'd it’s just not right I thought the world may be coming to an end. I'm sure I must have hit the wrong button somewhere as this is uncharacteristic of you dear.
Now for the record I live in Topeka and have no bullet holes in my house never have. And my weapon of choice is a crossbow it’s quiet (except for the screams) and there is just something unnerving about arrows flying around.
WD...you might be too white for me. JUST JOKING!!!!
I have started a new thread that is more characteristic of me...if you're interested.
OK. Here's an example. My ex-boyfriend (still in TWI) had a way of being so frickin stupid, he embarrassed me. If I said I needed to exfoliate my face, he would fixate on the word "exfoliation". He kept repeating every version of the word "exfoliate." "exfoliation" "exfoliator". He would go on and on and never shut up.
OK. Here's an example. My ex-boyfriend (still in TWI) had a way of being so frickin stupid, he embarrassed me. If I said I needed to exfoliate my face, he would fixate on the word "exfoliation". He kept repeating every version of the word "exfoliate." "exfoliation" "exfoliator". He would go on and on and never shut up.
What do you call it?
BTW, I never married that dumb arse. Thank God!!!
I would call it maybe 'irritating' or some other such adjective.
Do you have a stereotype for what you've described?
Yeah Kathy, it's ghetto speak. Which most of the black people I know REFUSE to let their kids speak.
Well. Just HOW MANY black people do you know?
I use "ghetto speak" myself, at times, when I find it appropriate,
I use the F-bomb at times, when I find it appropriate.
My MOTHER was black. BTW.
So was my Dad.
I think I'm black too, except for this one be-atch, whom me I was trying to date her said to me, "You're not black enough!"
Black enough?
What some of you white folk, for as much as you don't want to admit it to yourselves, are very much uneducated about; is simply a cultural group of Americans and they use a dialect.
Just because you don't like (how they speak) it or hate SOME of the behavior that takes place among gangs and in the areas in which they live.... Please rest assurred that what Coolwaters is doing is pointing out to you in a language you don't understand...
Just how ignorant you are of this topic.
I also speak in other languages and in other accents when I fell that is approproiate too.
I speak "geek" when I'm talking to nerds too.
The problem here is the hate that' sspewing about. take a closer look at it.
Just because you don't like (how they speak) it or hate SOME of the behavior that takes place among gangs and in the areas in which they live.... Please rest assurred that what Coolwaters is doing is pointing out to you in a language you don't understand...
Just how ignorant you are of this topic. ....
The problem here is the hate that' sspewing about. take a closer look at it.
Thanks for posting HCW ... The gang behavior that is hated is the intimidation, destruction of property, and illegal activities like drug running and killing people. I don't mind the language.
I like to hear CW's comments ... I'm not sure it is practical to expect Dot to spend time trying to teach MS-13 kids to read, in hopes the horde won't kill her ... and I would prefer CW speak in a language I do understand ... (though I don't really see what she said that was in another language.)
If I am ignorant, I'd be glad to be educated ... by calling me incredibly ignorant you have made me humble and ready to learn ... but you didn't expound. Do you have a class I can buy?
I thought I looked for the hate. Maybe you could be more specific where the hate is. I'm all ears.
OK, I probably sound a little harsh, and I am really glad you have something to say as a black person, (but maybe not black enuff). But really, go ahead and expound (beyond just the initial outrage, which maybe is understandable, if I just knew what you were talking about).
this thread could have been an interesting dialog about the various kinds of gangs and gangs in different regions
unfortunately it has degenerated into a mud slinging contest where the self proclaimed masters of political correctness attempt to browbeat those of different opinions into submission by ascribing racist intentions, and violent attitudes to any who dare disagree with their ideas of what is the appropriate response.
In the future perhaps it would be helpful if those of this mindset simply said in the opening post--NO DISAGREEMENT WITH THE PC POSTURE ALLOWED
That is a different take on how this thread has raged and who "throwed da most mud" than I had. Which is the PC side? Maybe I have THAT part wrong? Interesting!
HCW, don't know if you were talking to me or not but to answer the question.."How many black people do you know"
Well, we can start with my closest friend, a dude I consider a brother. Close enough that when his daughter needs help and he is out of town on business she calls me. I guess that's pretty close. Anyway, him, for one. Has NEVER allowed his daughter to talk "ghetto" and she is now 20 and one of the most well-spoken, intelligent young lady's that you will ever meet.
I am not referring to what would be called ebonics, if you want to refer to a dialect. That is not the same as ghetto-speak.
As far as the reference to hate, I think I already said the only thing I hate is prejudice.
Look, I only chimed in cause it seemed that CW was railing on Dot simply cause Dot didn't want gangs moving into her neighborhood. All of a sudden that makes her a bigot? What sane person WOULD want gangs in their neighborhood?
Too bad
this thread could have been an interesting dialog about the various kinds of gangs and gangs in different regions
That is a different take on how this thread has raged and who "throwed da most mud" than I had. Which is the PC side? Maybe I have THAT part wrong? Interesting!
~HAP
I find it interesting that those who say they're so "in the know" are the quickest to point out those who they believe are "not in the know" but then do nothing to enlighten them on it.
Is it a sin to be white and not very knowleable of Black culture?
You're welcome to come up here to NH or ME or VT where most schools have, at best 1 black kid to every 300 white kids. There isn't a lot of cultural diversity, if you know what I mean.
Then, I've lived in places where I was a minority - welcome to Tuscaloosa, AL. I kept to myself, stayed respectful, and did what I could to learn so I wouldn't offend anyone (and my girlfriend Martrice laughed her fanny off at my questions - God bless her!)
But none of that matters when it comes to gangs.
That's a different aspect of society in its own.
Gangs separate themselves from "regular society" through their language, dress code, and other symbols (tattoos, tagging, etc.) that make them unique unto themselves.
In my area we have a lot of Hells' Angels. They're not my favorite group to encounter on the road - nothing will put the fear of God in you as a driver, to have a gang of them swoop down on your back bumper when you're on the road. But I learned a long time ago - keep to yourself and all will be fine. They even have a code of ethics within their own - do them a favor and they'll do anything for you in return.
But I digress...
One poster here remarked how sad it was that this wasn't an exploration of beliefs and sharing of knowledge about this sub-section of society. I agree. It's become rather Springeresque in how this thread has developed and how some of you have posted. Rather than pointing out you think someone has no clue about what they said, why not tell them how they coulda handled things better?
Why not educate rather than raise an offense?
So... wasn't this thread about gangs or something like that?
this thread could have been an interesting dialog about the various kinds of gangs and gangs in different regions
unfortunately it has degenerated into a mud slinging contest where...
Agreed. 100%
I trust that folks understand that use of the terms "ignorant" and/or "uneducated" are denotative and absolutely not meant to connote that any of the contributors or readers of this forum are in any way unintelligent.
That being said. I'm thinking we can still have a really good discussion on this topic. I'm prepared to say some things that I, as a black person, "never say to most white people."
Why don't we say stuff to whites?
Because in general "white people just get it."
What I saw in a log post by CW was this. What she's seen and lived in the culture where she lives is more positive than the bullet holes in her house.
As far as the hatred... how's this:
i have never had the honor,woops meant horror of living in fear of gangs
up here in smalltowm usa we just ain't got them...yet...
if they come they will not be welcomed
and even if they are young kids{damn this is so sad,where are thier parent}i would rather them recieve my shotgun blast than me or mine recieve thiers. damn what a shame this is so blatent in OUR wonderful country
maybe they should go back to thiers.
and ya i know not all of them are boarder jumpers
Kinda sums it up, but I'll elaborate.
if they come they will not be welcomed
That's hatred folks.
Have you ever seen what a shotgun blast does to a human body?
To wish this on somebody because that move to "your" town....
HATRED.
Now. If someone, anyone, showed up at my door to harm my family. I'd buss a cap in dere arse, fo sho'.
Can anyone tell me just WHO gave this country to US?
Your immigrant relatives ARE freakin' "border jumpers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! White folk somehow believe that because they worked hard to pay for passage to the US. that are more entitled to live in the US than someone who worked hard to row accross the gulf of mexico in a car they converted to a boat.
MY immigrant relatives are SLAVES. For every one slave that made it from africa there were at least 100 who dies along the way.
"i have never had the honor,woops meant horror of living in fear of gangs
up here in smalltowm usa we just ain't got them...yet...
if they come they will not be welcomed
and even if they are young kids{damn this is so sad,where are thier parent}i would rather them recieve my shotgun blast than me or mine recieve thiers. damn what a shame this is so blatent in OUR wonderful country
maybe they should go back to thiers.
and ya i know not all of them are boarder jumpers"
Kinda sums it up, but I'll elaborate.
"if they come they will not be welcomed"
That's hatred folks.
To wish this on somebody because that move to "your" town....
HATRED.
Now. If someone, anyone, showed up at my door to harm my family. I'd buss a cap in dere arse, fo sho'.
I think it was clear they said the gangs are not welcome, the drug dealing, weapon wielding, taggers that want to dominate, threaten and harm you people. If it is HATE, it is with good cause.
They said if they are drawn down on they will fire rather than sacrifice themselves on the altar of diversity. Even you say you would do that.
Can anyone tell me just WHO gave this country to US?
Your immigrant relatives ARE freakin' "border jumpers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! White folk somehow believe that because they worked hard to pay for passage to the US. that are more entitled to live in the US than someone who worked hard to row accross the gulf of mexico in a car they converted to a boat.
MY immigrant relatives are SLAVES. For every one slave that made it from africa there were at least 100 who dies along the way.
My relatives were not border jumpers, nor were the relatives of most white folk. They went through Ellis Island, or something like that. Too much disease or if they were "retarded" and they didn't make the cut. The border jumpers come here illegally and demand rights paid for by citizens.
I would say the US has done more than maybe any other country to free slaves, and then to repay them. Many white folks have relatives that died freeing the slaves. Certainly the relatives that stayed in Africa are oh so much worse off than the slaves that were brought here. I'll certainly get flamed for this, but don't you count your lucky stars that your great grandfather came to the US instead of staying in Africa?
100 died for each one that made it? I read maybe 15% lost their lives en route.
Despite the captain's desire to keep as many slaves as possible alive, Middle Passage mortality rates were high. Although it's difficult to determine how many Africans died en route to the new world, it is now believed that between ten and twenty percent of those transported lost their lives.
And this is pretty informative, which seems to say the slave trade to the US was about 5% of the total then, and they were the lucky ones.
That's my gut reaction ... I think you are overstating some things ... but if we continue the dialogue, maybe we can reach some agreements ...
Some other interesting facts about my former neighborhood...
The first black kindergarten west of the Mississippi was opened in Tennessee Town.
Many of the original litigants and the original attorneys in Brown v Board of Education lived in Tennessee Town.
The book "In His Steps" was written about Tennessee Town, and the church Charles Sheldon pastored is still just across the street from Tennessee Town and is still heavily involved with the ongoing success of Tennessee Town.
Let me say that I'm not out to argue or put anyone down in any.
My relatives were not border jumpers, nor were the relatives of most white folk. They went through Ellis Island, or something like that.
This is precisely what I was referring to.
A "border jumper" is simply someone who crossed the border into the US.
The comparison I was drawing is that a person who comes into the US "today" from Mexico or Cuba is NOT accepted or acceptable. Yet coming in a generation & 1/2 (roughly) ago through Ellis Island is "accepted and acceptable.
The basic difference between the two situation is that the white american males who run the country have placed restrictions on who can enter the country "legally."
Immigrants had their reasons for wanting to come to the US, so does "Paco" from Mexico or Raul from Cuba. Of course. we have "good reasons" for restricting our souther border.
The above comment, speaks to me, as a black person that, w/all due respect.... "You don't get it."
Please. No insult intended, Please don't take it as such. I just believe that ther is NO difference between an immigrant of today and our storied ancestors who came through Ellis Island.
I was pointing out that the nobility and effort, etc. that it took to convert a car to a boat and ROW it here from Cuba as being similar to the struggles it took for people to make it here through Ellis Island. We welcomed them through Ellis and write history books about them. Yet we tell "Paco" to go home.
America is no more home to ANY American than it is to ANYONE from ANY other country in the world.
Is it the fact that they came here gererations before Paco that makes them (& us) more ENTITLED to live here than the guy from Mexico who just wants to WORK & put food on his family's table?
Our ENTIRE populace Today (with certain notable exceptions including the folk who lived here when Amerigo Vespucci, Chris Columbus & others arrived) today is the children of people who ARE NOT FROM HERE.
However, from MY side of the "racial" fence it cannot be ignored that the people "we've" welcomed pretty much all look like the same guys who make the laws that close the borders and the people "we" send "home" look like me - - black that is.
(Insert "we send white people away too!" comments here.)
100 died for each one that made it? I read maybe 15% lost their lives en route.
Despite the captain's desire to keep as many slaves as possible alive, Middle Passage mortality rates were high. Although it's difficult to determine how many Africans died en route to the new world, it is now believed that between ten and twenty percent of those transported lost their lives.
And this is pretty informative, which seems to say the slave trade to the US was about 5% of the total then, and they were the lucky ones.
That's my gut reaction ... I think you are overstating some things ... but if we continue the dialogue, maybe we can reach some agreements ...
Respectfully.
You got your information from a book that some "white guy from europe" wrote. I got the statistic I mentioned while standing in the courtyard of the largest slave castle of those in Ghana West Africa. Elmina slave castle is now a museum.
I was there in Ghana standing in the exact same spot where the majority of the slaves bound for the Americas left from listening to a tour guide give his schpeel on the slave trade. Of all of the slaves who left Africa for the US, the oajority of them when through Ghana, and the majority of those went through Elmina and left "through that gate right over there."
All of the stats escape me, but the reference link posted only speaks of the journey across the ocean. They have there in Ghana, at the museum where the trade happened records of the orders placed for workers.
They didn't call them slaves then & there. They simply placed orders for workers for the plantations in america. They guide told us that when an order was placed they rounded up numbers of roughly 100 to one to be sure that they could fulfill the order - - else they would not be paid.
Africans are a proud people, (just like your white ancestors who left "conditions) for better in the US). First of all they fought to keep their freedom and had to be defeated to be rounded up. Many warriors committed suicide (Kamakazi -style) rather than be enslaved. They there was the bataan type death march from the villages to the ports in 100+ degree heat. Many would die along the way....
Do you actually think they fed them well?
One to the slave castles they were herded and stuffed into courtyards & separated men from women. Many were injured from the battle and then sickened from the walk to Elmina. NO MEDICAL CARE WAS PROVIDED. In such close quarters infection was rampant.
Those pictures did not tell the story of the MAJORITY who came on boats w/ reconfigured cargo holds to get the MAXIMUM number of workers into the hold where they stayed for the journey. People died on a daily and sometime hourly basis. They simply threw the bodies overboard.
Only the strongest, most fortunate, and most protected by GOD made it.
My numbers stand.
It depends on who writes the story - the message you get.
I learned more about myself as an African American in 15 minutes in Elmina than I had learned in 45 years of life in the US.
We don't get the whole story here.
think it was clear they said the gangs are not welcome, the drug dealing, weapon wielding, taggers that want to dominate, threaten and harm you people. If it is HATE, it is with good cause.
There it is... WHY is drug dealing, etc., synonymous w/gangs?
Nobody threatens to shoot Johnny rich Dad's son for dealing, DO they?
I saw a reconstruction of the slave ships once, on some documentary. I wish I could remember the name of it.
the fruit piled up in the center bins in the grocery store... that's how people were transported to the americas to work as slaves. I'm amazed they could extricate dead bodies, as tightly as they pack people into the cargo holds. people didn't move for weeks. many more died than survived the trip.
The border jumpers come here illegally and demand rights paid for by citizens.
Just like anything else... a few bad ones spoil the reputation of the majority... who come here and to the work that average american white males REFUSE to do.... for LESS than minimum wage.
I have seen "them." Here in "Beautiful Ohio Where dreams come true...." "We" house groups of "Mexicans" in dormatory-type living that NO self-respecting american would live in.... So they can work in tree nurseries where they WON'T hire Americans to do the work because "we" would ask for "too much money."
THEY happily work there, pool their resources and buy older, yet nice, vans to drive around in. Then they buy the american dream, Big screen TV, order their Dish Network and watch TV hispanic TV on a dish 500.
They don't DEMAND anything. Not the majority. They want the SAME things from life you & I do. A nice home, nice clothes, good food, nice car & a big-screen high def. TV.
THEY happily work there, pool their resources and ...
I have no idea how many of them are "illegal."
... nor do I care.
I'm amazed they could extricate dead bodies, as tightly as they pack people into the cargo holds.
Sometimes they would cut them up & take them out in pieces, or break bones while "extricating" them.
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CoolWaters
Other than turning to gangs.
Notta, you're not including those who fit the stereotype of oh, let's say 'retard' or any other such stereotype?
You know what? I think I may have to agree that you were targeted because you were white. Do you have any clue as to why?
Somehow my post before Notta's got split and put into that last post to Notta.
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HAPe4me
gad, and gadzooks! People here are worked up over the word "bidness" as being supposedly low class and an undesirable word for upwardly mobile youth? Yet not one word is espoused concerning the flagrant use of the F word by others? What's up with that? it's sad and unbecoming coming from anyone. Is there a place to put an R or X rating on this OPEN FORUM THREAD?
~HAP
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WhiteDove
Wow Cool One you seem to be having a bad day here. We have known each other for many years and managed to survive it. Perhaps it is Break Time? This is messing with me seeing Jonny be good and you being BBQ'd it’s just not right I thought the world may be coming to an end. I'm sure I must have hit the wrong button somewhere as this is uncharacteristic of you dear.
Now for the record I live in Topeka and have no bullet holes in my house never have. And my weapon of choice is a crossbow it’s quiet (except for the screams) and there is just something unnerving about arrows flying around.
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HAPe4me
Jonny good? where? maybe some decks of cards are less full than other less than full decks. LOL
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CoolWaters
WD...you might be too white for me. JUST JOKING!!!!
I have started a new thread that is more characteristic of me...if you're interested.
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Nottawayfer
OK. Here's an example. My ex-boyfriend (still in TWI) had a way of being so frickin stupid, he embarrassed me. If I said I needed to exfoliate my face, he would fixate on the word "exfoliation". He kept repeating every version of the word "exfoliate." "exfoliation" "exfoliator". He would go on and on and never shut up.
What do you call it?
BTW, I never married that dumb arse. Thank God!!!
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CoolWaters
I would call it maybe 'irritating' or some other such adjective.
Do you have a stereotype for what you've described?
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HCW
Well. Just HOW MANY black people do you know?
I use "ghetto speak" myself, at times, when I find it appropriate,
I use the F-bomb at times, when I find it appropriate.
My MOTHER was black. BTW.
So was my Dad.
I think I'm black too, except for this one be-atch, whom me I was trying to date her said to me, "You're not black enough!"
Black enough?
What some of you white folk, for as much as you don't want to admit it to yourselves, are very much uneducated about; is simply a cultural group of Americans and they use a dialect.
Just because you don't like (how they speak) it or hate SOME of the behavior that takes place among gangs and in the areas in which they live.... Please rest assurred that what Coolwaters is doing is pointing out to you in a language you don't understand...
Just how ignorant you are of this topic.
I also speak in other languages and in other accents when I fell that is approproiate too.
I speak "geek" when I'm talking to nerds too.
The problem here is the hate that' sspewing about. take a closer look at it.
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ChattyKathy
And may I ask who you are speaking to?
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rhino
Thanks for posting HCW ... The gang behavior that is hated is the intimidation, destruction of property, and illegal activities like drug running and killing people. I don't mind the language.
I like to hear CW's comments ... I'm not sure it is practical to expect Dot to spend time trying to teach MS-13 kids to read, in hopes the horde won't kill her ... and I would prefer CW speak in a language I do understand ... (though I don't really see what she said that was in another language.)
If I am ignorant, I'd be glad to be educated ... by calling me incredibly ignorant you have made me humble and ready to learn ... but you didn't expound. Do you have a class I can buy?
I thought I looked for the hate. Maybe you could be more specific where the hate is. I'm all ears.
OK, I probably sound a little harsh, and I am really glad you have something to say as a black person, (but maybe not black enuff). But really, go ahead and expound (beyond just the initial outrage, which maybe is understandable, if I just knew what you were talking about).
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HAPe4me
thank you HCW!
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templelady
Too bad
this thread could have been an interesting dialog about the various kinds of gangs and gangs in different regions
unfortunately it has degenerated into a mud slinging contest where the self proclaimed masters of political correctness attempt to browbeat those of different opinions into submission by ascribing racist intentions, and violent attitudes to any who dare disagree with their ideas of what is the appropriate response.
In the future perhaps it would be helpful if those of this mindset simply said in the opening post--NO DISAGREEMENT WITH THE PC POSTURE ALLOWED
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HAPe4me
That is a different take on how this thread has raged and who "throwed da most mud" than I had. Which is the PC side? Maybe I have THAT part wrong? Interesting!
~HAP
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Bluzeman
HCW, don't know if you were talking to me or not but to answer the question.."How many black people do you know"
Well, we can start with my closest friend, a dude I consider a brother. Close enough that when his daughter needs help and he is out of town on business she calls me. I guess that's pretty close. Anyway, him, for one. Has NEVER allowed his daughter to talk "ghetto" and she is now 20 and one of the most well-spoken, intelligent young lady's that you will ever meet.
I am not referring to what would be called ebonics, if you want to refer to a dialect. That is not the same as ghetto-speak.
As far as the reference to hate, I think I already said the only thing I hate is prejudice.
Look, I only chimed in cause it seemed that CW was railing on Dot simply cause Dot didn't want gangs moving into her neighborhood. All of a sudden that makes her a bigot? What sane person WOULD want gangs in their neighborhood?
Your right...it is too bad.
Rick
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excathedra
sorry i haven't been able to keep with this thread....
ANY violent destructive group.... gang.... would upset me.....
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ChasUFarley
I find it interesting that those who say they're so "in the know" are the quickest to point out those who they believe are "not in the know" but then do nothing to enlighten them on it.
Is it a sin to be white and not very knowleable of Black culture?
You're welcome to come up here to NH or ME or VT where most schools have, at best 1 black kid to every 300 white kids. There isn't a lot of cultural diversity, if you know what I mean.
Then, I've lived in places where I was a minority - welcome to Tuscaloosa, AL. I kept to myself, stayed respectful, and did what I could to learn so I wouldn't offend anyone (and my girlfriend Martrice laughed her fanny off at my questions - God bless her!)
But none of that matters when it comes to gangs.
That's a different aspect of society in its own.
Gangs separate themselves from "regular society" through their language, dress code, and other symbols (tattoos, tagging, etc.) that make them unique unto themselves.
In my area we have a lot of Hells' Angels. They're not my favorite group to encounter on the road - nothing will put the fear of God in you as a driver, to have a gang of them swoop down on your back bumper when you're on the road. But I learned a long time ago - keep to yourself and all will be fine. They even have a code of ethics within their own - do them a favor and they'll do anything for you in return.
But I digress...
One poster here remarked how sad it was that this wasn't an exploration of beliefs and sharing of knowledge about this sub-section of society. I agree. It's become rather Springeresque in how this thread has developed and how some of you have posted. Rather than pointing out you think someone has no clue about what they said, why not tell them how they coulda handled things better?
Why not educate rather than raise an offense?
So... wasn't this thread about gangs or something like that?
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HCW
I trust that folks understand that use of the terms "ignorant" and/or "uneducated" are denotative and absolutely not meant to connote that any of the contributors or readers of this forum are in any way unintelligent.
That being said. I'm thinking we can still have a really good discussion on this topic. I'm prepared to say some things that I, as a black person, "never say to most white people."
Why don't we say stuff to whites?
Because in general "white people just get it."
What I saw in a log post by CW was this. What she's seen and lived in the culture where she lives is more positive than the bullet holes in her house.
As far as the hatred... how's this:
Kinda sums it up, but I'll elaborate.
That's hatred folks.
Have you ever seen what a shotgun blast does to a human body?
To wish this on somebody because that move to "your" town....
HATRED.
Now. If someone, anyone, showed up at my door to harm my family. I'd buss a cap in dere arse, fo sho'.
Can anyone tell me just WHO gave this country to US?
Your immigrant relatives ARE freakin' "border jumpers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! White folk somehow believe that because they worked hard to pay for passage to the US. that are more entitled to live in the US than someone who worked hard to row accross the gulf of mexico in a car they converted to a boat.
MY immigrant relatives are SLAVES. For every one slave that made it from africa there were at least 100 who dies along the way.
Hmmm..... entitled to be here.?
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rhino
They said if they are drawn down on they will fire rather than sacrifice themselves on the altar of diversity. Even you say you would do that.
My relatives were not border jumpers, nor were the relatives of most white folk. They went through Ellis Island, or something like that. Too much disease or if they were "retarded" and they didn't make the cut. The border jumpers come here illegally and demand rights paid for by citizens.I would say the US has done more than maybe any other country to free slaves, and then to repay them. Many white folks have relatives that died freeing the slaves. Certainly the relatives that stayed in Africa are oh so much worse off than the slaves that were brought here. I'll certainly get flamed for this, but don't you count your lucky stars that your great grandfather came to the US instead of staying in Africa?
100 died for each one that made it? I read maybe 15% lost their lives en route.
Despite the captain's desire to keep as many slaves as possible alive, Middle Passage mortality rates were high. Although it's difficult to determine how many Africans died en route to the new world, it is now believed that between ten and twenty percent of those transported lost their lives.
And this is pretty informative, which seems to say the slave trade to the US was about 5% of the total then, and they were the lucky ones.
That's my gut reaction ... I think you are overstating some things ... but if we continue the dialogue, maybe we can reach some agreements ...
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CoolWaters
Just some information about how my former neighborhood dealt with problems:
http://www.cjonline.com/stories/030904/opi...rolemodel.shtml
http://www.topeka.org/pdfs/tennessee_town.pdf
http://www.cjonline.com/stories/032502/com_nia.shtml
http://www.cjonline.com/stories/061498/com_tntownnia.shtml
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CoolWaters
Oh...
Some other interesting facts about my former neighborhood...
The first black kindergarten west of the Mississippi was opened in Tennessee Town.
Many of the original litigants and the original attorneys in Brown v Board of Education lived in Tennessee Town.
The book "In His Steps" was written about Tennessee Town, and the church Charles Sheldon pastored is still just across the street from Tennessee Town and is still heavily involved with the ongoing success of Tennessee Town.
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ChattyKathy
I'll trump your entitlement with my grandparents....full blooded Cherokee.
And I am doing this in jest okay.
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HCW
First.
Let me say that I'm not out to argue or put anyone down in any.
This is precisely what I was referring to.A "border jumper" is simply someone who crossed the border into the US.
The comparison I was drawing is that a person who comes into the US "today" from Mexico or Cuba is NOT accepted or acceptable. Yet coming in a generation & 1/2 (roughly) ago through Ellis Island is "accepted and acceptable.
The basic difference between the two situation is that the white american males who run the country have placed restrictions on who can enter the country "legally."
Immigrants had their reasons for wanting to come to the US, so does "Paco" from Mexico or Raul from Cuba. Of course. we have "good reasons" for restricting our souther border.
The above comment, speaks to me, as a black person that, w/all due respect.... "You don't get it."
Please. No insult intended, Please don't take it as such. I just believe that ther is NO difference between an immigrant of today and our storied ancestors who came through Ellis Island.
I was pointing out that the nobility and effort, etc. that it took to convert a car to a boat and ROW it here from Cuba as being similar to the struggles it took for people to make it here through Ellis Island. We welcomed them through Ellis and write history books about them. Yet we tell "Paco" to go home.
America is no more home to ANY American than it is to ANYONE from ANY other country in the world.
Is it the fact that they came here gererations before Paco that makes them (& us) more ENTITLED to live here than the guy from Mexico who just wants to WORK & put food on his family's table?
Our ENTIRE populace Today (with certain notable exceptions including the folk who lived here when Amerigo Vespucci, Chris Columbus & others arrived) today is the children of people who ARE NOT FROM HERE.
However, from MY side of the "racial" fence it cannot be ignored that the people "we've" welcomed pretty much all look like the same guys who make the laws that close the borders and the people "we" send "home" look like me - - black that is.
(Insert "we send white people away too!" comments here.)
Respectfully.
You got your information from a book that some "white guy from europe" wrote. I got the statistic I mentioned while standing in the courtyard of the largest slave castle of those in Ghana West Africa. Elmina slave castle is now a museum.
I was there in Ghana standing in the exact same spot where the majority of the slaves bound for the Americas left from listening to a tour guide give his schpeel on the slave trade. Of all of the slaves who left Africa for the US, the oajority of them when through Ghana, and the majority of those went through Elmina and left "through that gate right over there."
All of the stats escape me, but the reference link posted only speaks of the journey across the ocean. They have there in Ghana, at the museum where the trade happened records of the orders placed for workers.
They didn't call them slaves then & there. They simply placed orders for workers for the plantations in america. They guide told us that when an order was placed they rounded up numbers of roughly 100 to one to be sure that they could fulfill the order - - else they would not be paid.
Africans are a proud people, (just like your white ancestors who left "conditions) for better in the US). First of all they fought to keep their freedom and had to be defeated to be rounded up. Many warriors committed suicide (Kamakazi -style) rather than be enslaved. They there was the bataan type death march from the villages to the ports in 100+ degree heat. Many would die along the way....
Do you actually think they fed them well?
One to the slave castles they were herded and stuffed into courtyards & separated men from women. Many were injured from the battle and then sickened from the walk to Elmina. NO MEDICAL CARE WAS PROVIDED. In such close quarters infection was rampant.
Those pictures did not tell the story of the MAJORITY who came on boats w/ reconfigured cargo holds to get the MAXIMUM number of workers into the hold where they stayed for the journey. People died on a daily and sometime hourly basis. They simply threw the bodies overboard.
Only the strongest, most fortunate, and most protected by GOD made it.
My numbers stand.
It depends on who writes the story - the message you get.
I learned more about myself as an African American in 15 minutes in Elmina than I had learned in 45 years of life in the US.
We don't get the whole story here.
There it is... WHY is drug dealing, etc., synonymous w/gangs?
Nobody threatens to shoot Johnny rich Dad's son for dealing, DO they?
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potato
I saw a reconstruction of the slave ships once, on some documentary. I wish I could remember the name of it.
the fruit piled up in the center bins in the grocery store... that's how people were transported to the americas to work as slaves. I'm amazed they could extricate dead bodies, as tightly as they pack people into the cargo holds. people didn't move for weeks. many more died than survived the trip.
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HCW
I have seen "them." Here in "Beautiful Ohio Where dreams come true...." "We" house groups of "Mexicans" in dormatory-type living that NO self-respecting american would live in.... So they can work in tree nurseries where they WON'T hire Americans to do the work because "we" would ask for "too much money."
THEY happily work there, pool their resources and buy older, yet nice, vans to drive around in. Then they buy the american dream, Big screen TV, order their Dish Network and watch TV hispanic TV on a dish 500.
They don't DEMAND anything. Not the majority. They want the SAME things from life you & I do. A nice home, nice clothes, good food, nice car & a big-screen high def. TV.
I have no idea how many of them are "illegal."
... nor do I care.
Sometimes they would cut them up & take them out in pieces, or break bones while "extricating" them.
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