Never the less, I thought that it was a pretty mean thing to say in response to somebody who simply made the effort to move to an area that wasn`t rampant with gang activity.
I moved out into the country. It has nothing to do with being white or flight from another ethnic race. It is all about not wanting the violence of gangs in ones neighborhood.
It appears to be an unjustified racial slur against Dot, and came off as a personal attack.
am i to understand that you would let your 8 yo be shot by another 8 yo b4 you took action ?
Ah. Now the 'what ifs'. cc, I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that I would not shoot anybody. That is NOT the same as saying I would not take action.
How does not shooting suddenly equate to not taking action?
Never the less, I thought that it was a pretty mean thing to say to somebody who simply made the effort to move to an area that wasn`t rampant with gang activity.
I moved out into the country. It has nothing to do with being white or flight from another ethnic race. It is all about not wanting the violence of gangs in ones neighborhood.
It was an unjustified racial slur against Dot, and came off as a personal attack.
Well, then you're not reading Dot's posts. She made racial slurs.
Okay - Im not through - my whole point about statistics is that you cannot mention a violent criminal problem without mentioning race---mentioning race is not a racial slur-- but a fact backed up by statistics unfortunately.
I grew up with a racist biggot father. He always said "The only good n***er is a dead n****er." I never believed him. I HATED his words and comments because I had enough sense to know you don't hate people for something they have absolutely no control over.
Now....is racism based on color, or is it based on ethics and morals of people? I don't like the gang attitude; I HATE rap music; I don't hate the color or lack thereof of the people who are partake of these things.
I don't care for the attitude of certain colors who have developed bad cultural habits which include lack of respect for others around them. By lack of respect, I mean words and actions they have in public which are downright rude.
I live next to 2 Mexican families. I love Mexico. It is one of my favorite place to vacation. I love the culture. One family is respectable Old Mexican type of folks. They are nice. The other is a family with a minimum of 9 cars parked all around their house of which only 3 actually run. They are always working on their stereos and listening to loud bass music without care of who their music affects. I dislike these neighbors. I run outside to tell them "No me gusto la musica!!!!!!" They don't care. I call the police. It's a regular thing around here.
We will leave. Call it white flight or whatever the hell you want. If my neighbors want to live that way, carry on. I don't have to. But don't ever judge me for for pursuing a way I want to live.
We have a couple of trashy white families as well. Their yards look like crap, they have 3 dogs in their front yard who bark or howl all night. They are just as guilty of disrepecting their neighbors.
There are white punk @$$ kids who do the same thing, and I dislike their attitudes, words, and actions as well.
Is it a race issue? It is a cultural issue which knows no color, or it knows all color. YOu pick.
Ya know, there's not much more anyone can ask of someone else. You've done what you could to live peaceably (I'm assuming from your post). One of the neighbors gets it, the other doesn't. You want to move, then move.
You've not described White Flight.
You've described having done all with no resolution, leave.
Wait till the seas are calmer to join in when you don't have all the facts.
Keep to your guns and do not delete what you posted because it offended someone. If it was in error then so be it. It won't be the first or the last time and I'm in good company on that anyway.
Consider the other rude things said in this thread (much having been deleted at this point) and how benign my statement was in comparison. Consider how that was chosen out of all the other rude things stated and pointed out.
Don't be afraid to appear a fool, that is part of the self-reliance I am working so dang hard to acquire.
Don't back off before you know you were wrong in the first place and stop taking other people's blame.
Don't take myself so serious and since that was in part humor then why second guess myself.
I have been controlled, bullied and treated like a second class citizen in private most of my life, I'm fed up and if I offend someone with my growth process.....well they are just going to have to get over it!
Ok, I've read and re-read this thread. I'm not seeing the racial slams that you are CW.
Seems to me that Dot, named more than one reason for moving to the area she moved to. Not wanting to have a certain element near her home was a factor - but not the only factor.
This seems like one of those times when everyone needs to go to their corner and re-group.
BTW - My dad worked for the welfare system for over 25 years in the Bronx in NYC. He was an investigator which means that it was his responsibility to make sure that the folks applying for welfare truly needed it and continued to need it. There were times when he discovered that they no longer were eligible for benefits.
This is the way I understand it:
Statistics and race do play into the bugeting of funds but not in a way that is obvious. The powers that be look at who is on welfare, what category they fall into ( and NO - race is not the only issue - there's the elderly, the mentally challenged, the physically impaired, etc.) and then they look at the demographics of the state, city - whatever. Money is bugeted according to the proportion of the "at risk" population and any changes made in that ratio.
This isn't a racial look at the situation - its a "cold hard facts" look. Statistics generally are used as numbers only.
Anyway..... I'll just huddle here by the counter and drink my coffee. I think I've said all that I can for now.
If a GANG member is not here legally, I would just as soon drive his azz back across the border myself -- but our cowardly ACLU would hire 45 lawyers to protect his "rights" which the illegals in effect gave up when they entered the country illegally.
This is the most glaring racial slur, imo.
I took this as a racial slur because she cited the MS-13 (well...others on this thread are calling it the M13...but doing my own research I found out it is MS-13) as the problem.
Her statements just before this one were:
We opened up a youth center directly across the street along with a library.
What happened more and more groups of kids are congregating on the corners and the gang signs are being painted.
These two statements together makes me think that she is saying that there are groups of MS-13 gang member kids congregating on the corners and the gang signs are being painted.
From the link she provided, I learned that MS-13 gang members are primarily El Salvadoran and/or of other Latino heritage.
I just want the community to be the way it was a little while ago prior to the ilegal people and the KAatrina gangs moved in.
Now this quote adds in the "KAatrina" gangs.
Having read thus far of what Dot had said on this thread, and looking back at other threads and posts of Dot's, I assumed she was talking about non-white gangs.
Now if she has all along been talking about Canadian or Swiss or German or other 'white' illegals and gangs, then I have assumed incorrectly...concerning this thread only. As I said, there are plenty of other threads and posts I can find where Dot has out-and-out zeroed in on one ethnic group or another (she tends to have more problems with Latino males, though).
Earlier someone said that maybe racism isn't just about skin color, but about culture. Going by that, Dot has honed in on the gay/lesbian community, the welfare recipients, and many other culturally different groups.
I truly care for Dot. She's been through a whole lot. But so much of what I've seen of her posts here at GSC concerning what she has been going through has been directly proportionate to her level of discomfort with certain groups she takes issue with on a regular basis.
My hope in pointing this out is that Dot will look back at her own posts and threads and see if there's anything to what I've said. Because I am quite seriously concerned for her safety. I would hate to find a thread one day about Dot having a shootout with those kids congregating across the street from her...and Dot not winning that battle.
Lesson learned today:
Wait till the seas are calmer to join in when you don't have all the facts.
Keep to your guns and do not delete what you posted because it offended someone. If it was in error then so be it. It won't be the first or the last time and I'm in good company on that anyway.
Consider the other rude things said in this thread (much having been deleted at this point) and how benign my statement was in comparison. Consider how that was chosen out of all the other rude things stated and pointed out.
Don't be afraid to appear a fool, that is part of the self-reliance I am working so dang hard to acquire.
Don't back off before you know you were wrong in the first place and stop taking other people's blame.
Don't take myself so serious and since that was in part humor then why second guess myself.
I have been controlled, bullied and treated like a second class citizen in private most of my life, I'm fed up and if I offend someone with my growth process.....well they are just going to have to get over it!
OK... I just read this thing... and gotta chime in (big surprise huh!)...
Of course, I haven't read the parts that were deleted so I may be missing something...
I seriously don't think anyone, at least not anyone who comes to these boards, likes gangs or what they represent. I think folks have a different way of dealing with the gang issues just as folks have a different way of dealing with any issue. It certainly seems that CWs method is in the minority here... and I never heard her defend gangs or what they represent. Some may have taken that from her post since she didn't advocate greeting them with a hail of bullets.
We've all got issues... we all deal with them differently.
Again, I haven't seen the deleted threads so I don't know if they have anything to do with the amount of "heat" generated here.
"White Flight" is not a derogatory term unless you choose to make it that. It's a term used to describe a social situation...
I don't particularly like it but it's just a term, a description. I didn't invent the term. It's just there.
Now for the hard part... I don't know how to say it, but I honestly feel that I care about the folks who have posted on this thread.
We are all prejudiced to some degree, we're human.
I'd love to think that none of us like it, but it's there... because we're different and we look at things differently.
We look different, we were raised different, we came from different parts of the country, etc. We've lived different lives.
To deny it exists doesn't make it go away.
(I said "prejudiced" not "racist")... and it appears to me that there has been a sometimes subtle, sometimes overt undercurrent of prejudice on this thread.
Am I just imagining that? Have I taken things wrong or is it there?
OK... I just read this thing... and gotta chime in (big surprise huh!)...
Of course, I haven't read the parts that were deleted so I may be missing something...
I seriously don't think anyone, at least not anyone who comes to these boards, likes gangs or what they represent. I think folks have a different way of dealing with the gang issues just as folks have a different way of dealing with any issue. It certainly seems that CWs method is in the minority here... and I never heard her defend gangs or what they represent. Some may have taken that from her post since she didn't advocate greeting them with a hail of bullets.
We've all got issues... we all deal with them differently.
Again, I haven't seen the deleted threads so I don't know if they have anything to do with the amount of "heat" generated here.
"White Flight" is not a derogatory term unless you choose to make it that. It's a term used to describe a social situation...
I don't particularly like it but it's just a term, a description. I didn't invent the term. It's just there.
Now for the hard part... I don't know how to say it, but I honestly feel that I care about the folks who have posted on this thread.
We are all prejudiced to some degree, we're human.
I'd love to think that none of us like it, but it's there... because we're different and we look at things differently.
We look different, we were raised different, we came from different parts of the country, etc. We've lived different lives.
To deny it exists doesn't make it go away.
(I said "prejudiced" not "racist")... and it appears to me that there has been a sometimes subtle, sometimes overt undercurrent of prejudice on this thread.
Am I just imagining that? Have I taken things wrong or is it there?
Tom- IMNSHO, this was a good post. thank you for writing. I agree especially with your description concerning "white flight". When I read the word in CW's post, it never crossed my mind that it would be considered an attack, let alone considered one of the worst personal attacks on this thread. I have heard the term for years, as have most who have participated in issues around inner city schools. It is a common term heard (to name one of many) in discussions about keeping racial balance in public schools in areas that have gone under court mandated desegregation plans and equal educational opportunity laws.
Concerning your comments on "prejudice", I agree it is there. Prejucice is not necessarily limited to racial prejudice. I would go further, to say there have been some indications of racial prejudice as well. It does exist, and is something few would admit. It just sometimes leaks out, from all sides of the racial spectrum. It is hideous from any source.
Next, frankly, in my opinion, (probably worth everything that is paid for it), at least two have made allusions to personal things about CW. I am amazed they have not been deleted because of their private and personal nature whether true or not. I have no idea why such information should be shared in an open thread, IM, or anywhere else.
Back to the subject of the thread, I cannot take issue with anything CW has said concerning dealing with gangs. It is not defending gangs to seek ways to help children youth or adults to find alternatives to this path without shooting them first and asking questions later. Keep up the good work CW, you will be rewarded now in personal satisfaction, and if certain interpretations of the Bible are true, in the life beyond. In any case, those you help will benefit and so will society.
It is a personal choice as to how one determines the environment they are willing to inhabit. To claim that such determinations are in and of themselves based solely on the racial/religious/other attributes of the neighbors or that such words as "inner city", "gang bangers" , etc automatically refer to minorities, unless it is so indicated by the speaker of same, is at best putting words in people's mouths at worst bigotry at some level.
How one responds to the violence or problems of their neighborhood is again a personal choice based on the circumstances of one's own life. Far be it from me to tell anyone what is the correct way of handling things.
It is all too easy to sit here in cyberspace and judge others actions when we are disconnected by time and space, for the most part, from the reality of their lives. In addition because we are disconnected from the reality of their lives it would be equally foolish to assume that what everyone says about a given situation and their actions regarding the same is the truth. Because the reality is that very few of us know each other on a personal level so that blanket assumptions about the intent or the veracity of a poster is in and of itself foolhardy.
You are so entrenched in correctness that you lost your ability to speak so
I am DONE with you.
Anyone else who wants to wave holy hands and sing cambia and invite the "gang" members or illegal -- that's right THE NON AMERICAN border creeping illegal who HAVE NO RIGHT to be here -- into their home you go for it.
I will see you on the news in a body bag.
I am WHITE and I am proud -- how do you like that Sh it? NOT politically right? I do not give a F And I was not having racial slurs. We can have all kinds of other colors to be proud of --
I have the right to get out of the city
I have the right to expect to be safe in my home
And if you try to come into MY life and destroy it then expect to do battle for I will not go down without a fight.
Also because I decided to not klive in the city YOU assumed it was because I do not like blacks or browns. SO YOU are the racist as YOU decided that was my reasoning. My neighbor Donna is a dear friend and is BLACK. And other BLACKS who are not as successful as she is have decided that she is a traitor to her race. She pulled her son out of the GANG school and he is in private school
So I guess those you people are angry at -- is anyone who is not you. Real liberal. Love and embrace the world except anyone who is not you. So f ing typical of the liberals.
IF I do not want to live next to a white person with a car in their yard, that is MY business, If I choose not to live next to a brown person with 11 cars in their yard, that is my choice, If I do not want to live next to a black who hates whites, that is my choice --
Here ya go, don't live next to me either. I am not a racist -- I am a classist -- I want to live near a certain class of people - black white or brown -- Do not paint in our neighborhood, do not play music loud after 10:00 PM, do not shoot at me-- do not break in my home -- Golly I am so evil cause I do not want to live near PEOPLE of any color who do those things.
I was with the police yesterday. We walked in the woods to throw out the camping illegals - I am an an awful white person
F- off I can still have an opinion.
You want to go camping with your "buddies" or invite them in your house -- you go for it.
If a GANG member is not here legally, I would just as soon drive his azz back across the border myself -- but our cowardly ACLU would hire 45 lawyers to protect his "rights" which the illegals in effect gave up when they entered the country illegally.
I do not apologize to you at all. I would still drive their gang azz back over the border and if that offends you I DO NOT CARE. Then you live with them -- racial slur?
That is part of the politically correctness that does not allow me to speak -- Well, I am talking baby. If you do not like it.
Seal with it or go liberate the illegals -- I will be in the other camp -- voting and marching in protest of your camp.
We opened up a youth center directly across the street along with a library.
What happened more and more groups of kids are congregating on the corners and the gang signs are being painted.
Gee, you found out they are latino? Gee, and if they are and if they are dangerous I am not allowed to mention them or somehow I offend all latinos? Then, you do not give LATINOS enough credit and you are the racist
Too bad, you are so liberal you make me sick
I hang out with two woman from EL SALVADOR -- they hate them too - but they can say it because they are latin -- and I cannot because I am white.
I am not potically correct -- I am not running for office.
I have a right to speak
If it bothers you, don't listen I am fine without you
"So you pulled White Flight and it didn't work. ::shrug:: It never does.
Dot, there is no way on God's green earth that you can seriously say that when you went WOW you were offering people anything more than another con that they saw right through. Well, you can say it, but if you believe it, then that explains a whole lot about why they ripped you off. "Here you pathetic ragamuffin devil spirit in the form of a criminal, I've got ALL THE ANSWERS TO FIX YOU! Just drink this koolaid-like drink and follow the yellow brick road I'm gonna take you down...Glawry!" "Sure, sis, anything you say. Just make sure you show me the layout of your house because while you're being holier than me and drinking poisoned koolaid-like drinks, I'm gonna show you what the real world is like." Lessee...you were in a cult, they were in a gang....you were pushing mind/soul/spirit poison, they were pushing to get your belongings away from you...
Don't you think that people KNOW when you're condescending, arrogant and holier-than-thou towards them?
In the end, you've got a choice: become a gang unto yourself or learn a better way.
If you choose the former, don't beetch when they come for you. (This is referring to a Martin Niemoller quote.) "
So, you like gangs? You want a piece of me -- come on.
YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ME, OTHER THAN I LIVE IN A NICE HOME WITHOUT BULLET HOLES AND I WANT TO KEEP IT THAT WAY -- AND YOU ENJOY IT APPARENTLY.
I hung out with bikers; I carried a knife in my boot to hang in that environment.
Your insults to me are typical "Cool Waters" retaliation.
Blaaa Blaaa Blaaa
YOU play the race card as it seems to give you a life and something to live for.
You bring up your bullet ridden house as if I am suppose to back down –
I am not
Come on
Come on with your typical – feel sorry for me – because ---
So if I keep talking I sound like the bad guy – cause poor you had bullets in your house
BFD
I don’t feel sorry for you, I think you were stupid to stay
Ohhh, I am being a meany --
Well, you were being a twister of content to supply your own needs to apply yourself on the thread as some kind of a hero and make me the bad guy cause I do not want to live by criminals
GET over yourself -- HOT waters there is nothing cool about any of your crap to me.
"So you pulled White Flight and it didn't work. ::shrug:: It never does.
Dot, there is no way on God's green earth that you can seriously say that when you went WOW you were offering people anything more than another con that they saw right through. Well, you can say it, but if you believe it, then that explains a whole lot about why they ripped you off. "Here you pathetic ragamuffin devil spirit in the form of a criminal, I've got ALL THE ANSWERS TO FIX YOU! Just drink this koolaid-like drink and follow the yellow brick road I'm gonna take you down...Glawry!" "Sure, sis, anything you say. Just make sure you show me the layout of your house because while you're being holier than me and drinking poisoned koolaid-like drinks, I'm gonna show you what the real world is like." Lessee...you were in a cult, they were in a gang....you were pushing mind/soul/spirit poison, they were pushing to get your belongings away from you...
Don't you think that people KNOW when you're condescending, arrogant and holier-than-thou towards them?
In the end, you've got a choice: become a gang unto yourself or learn a better way.
If you choose the former, don't beetch when they come for you. (This is referring to a Martin Niemoller quote.) "
So, you like gangs? You want a piece of me -- come on.
YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ME, OTHER THAN I LIVE IN A NICE HOME WITHOUT BULLET HOLES AND I WANT TO KEEP IT THAT WAY -- AND YOU ENJOY IT APPARENTLY.
I hung out with bikers; I carried a knife in my boot to hang in that environment.
Your insults to me are typical "Cool Waters" retaliation.
Blaaa Blaaa Blaaa
YOU play the race card as it seems to give you a life and something to live for.
You bring up your bullet ridden house as if I am suppose to back down –
I am not
Come on
Come on with your typical – feel sorry for me – because ---
So if I keep talking I sound like the bad guy – cause poor you had bullets in your house
BFD
I don’t feel sorry for you, I think you were stupid to stay
Ohhh, I am being a meany --
Well, you were being a twister of content to supply your own needs to applky yourself on the thread as some kind of a hero and make me the bad guy cause I do not want to live by criminals
GET over yourself -- HOT waters there is nothing cool about any of your crap to me.
I thought you were through with me...
Cool waters
You are so entrenched in correctness that you lost your ability to speak so
I am DONE with you.
Anyone else who wants to wave holy hands and sing cambia and invite the "gang" members or illegal -- that's right THE NON AMERICAN border creeping illegal who HAVE NO RIGHT to be here -- into their home you go for it.
I will see you on the news in a body bag.
I am WHITE and I am proud -- how do you like that Sh it? NOT politically right? I do not give a F And I was not having racial slurs. We can have all kinds of other colors to be proud of --
I have the right to get out of the city
I have the right to expect to be safe in my home
And if you try to come into MY life and destroy it then expect to do battle for I will not go down without a fight.
Also because I decided to not klive in the city YOU assumed it was because I do not like blacks or browns. SO YOU are the racist as YOU decided that was my reasoning. My neighbor Donna is a dear friend and is BLACK. And other BLACKS who are not as successful as she is have decided that she is a traitor to her race. She pulled her son out of the GANG school and he is in private school
So I guess those you people are angry at -- is anyone who is not you. Real liberal. Love and embrace the world except anyone who is not you. So f ing typical of the liberals.
IF I do not want to live next to a white person with a car in their yard, that is MY business, If I choose not to live next to a brown person with 11 cars in their yard, that is my choice, If I do not want to live next to a black who hates whites, that is my choice --
Here ya go, don't live next to me either. I am not a racist -- I am a classist -- I want to live near a certain class of people - black white or brown -- Do not paint in our neighborhood, do not play music loud after 10:00 PM, do not shoot at me-- do not break in my home -- Golly I am so evil cause I do not want to live near PEOPLE of any color who do those things.
I was with the police yesterday. We walked in the woods to throw out the camping illegals - I am an an awful white person
F- off I can still have an opinion.
You want to go camping with your "buddies" or invite them in your house -- you go for it.
Wow.
yeah I said this
QUOTE(Dot Matrix @ Jan 16 2007, 07:08 PM)
If a GANG member is not here legally, I would just as soon drive his azz back across the border myself -- but our cowardly ACLU would hire 45 lawyers to protect his "rights" which the illegals in effect gave up when they entered the country illegally.
I do not apologize to you at all. I would still drive their gang azz back over the border and if that offends you I DO NOT CARE. Then you live with them -- racial slur?
That is part of the politically correctness that does not allow me to speak -- Well, I am talking baby. If you do not like it.
Seal with it or go liberate the illegals -- I will be in the other camp -- voting and marching in protest of your camp.
I lived for a time in one of the worst areas in Columbus. For those who know Columbus, it was Greenbriar East. I got out of that area as soon as I could. If YOU enjoy living in crack-infested neighborhoods CW, that's YOUR business. I'm glad that I was able to get OUT of that area. Dot doesn't want HER neighborhood to turn INTO that kind of area. What the he|| is your problem with that CW?
I grew up in the inner city of CHicago, prodomently Polish and Italian neighborhood..talkin about good food...:)
But, we are talkin GANGS..Our gangs were Italian..dont wanna mess with them..John Trevolta types with black leather cabreta's..the name of our locals were the 'Sharks'..
They kept us safe..but I grew up in a period of time when they integrated schools, and brought in kids from other districts..
My mom said"NO MORE", I was walking back from shopping and some one came up and threatened to cut off my hair. I was a natural sandy blonde, with hair to the bottom of my butt...I was scarred to go to school..we moved to the burbs soon after..
I lived for a time in one of the worst areas in Columbus. For those who know Columbus, it was Greenbriar East. I got out of that area as soon as I could. If YOU enjoy living in crack-infested neighborhoods CW, that's YOUR business. I'm glad that I was able to get OUT of that area. Dot doesn't want HER neighborhood to turn INTO that kind of area. What the he|| is your problem with that CW?
And by the way, what the heck is "bidness"?
Rick
Oh doh ee oh doh, I dunno. All I wanted to do was tell Dot how to live her life. Why is that so bad? I want her to be forced to live where I think she ought to live. Haven't I said that plainly enough? I mean, didn't you get it when I said, "Dot, you MUST STAY where I tell you to stay!"?
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rascal
Never the less, I thought that it was a pretty mean thing to say in response to somebody who simply made the effort to move to an area that wasn`t rampant with gang activity.
I moved out into the country. It has nothing to do with being white or flight from another ethnic race. It is all about not wanting the violence of gangs in ones neighborhood.
It appears to be an unjustified racial slur against Dot, and came off as a personal attack.
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CoolWaters
Ah. Now the 'what ifs'. cc, I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that I would not shoot anybody. That is NOT the same as saying I would not take action.
How does not shooting suddenly equate to not taking action?
Well, then you're not reading Dot's posts. She made racial slurs.
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washingtonweather
Okay - Im not through - my whole point about statistics is that you cannot mention a violent criminal problem without mentioning race---mentioning race is not a racial slur-- but a fact backed up by statistics unfortunately.
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Nottawayfer
I grew up with a racist biggot father. He always said "The only good n***er is a dead n****er." I never believed him. I HATED his words and comments because I had enough sense to know you don't hate people for something they have absolutely no control over.
Now....is racism based on color, or is it based on ethics and morals of people? I don't like the gang attitude; I HATE rap music; I don't hate the color or lack thereof of the people who are partake of these things.
I don't care for the attitude of certain colors who have developed bad cultural habits which include lack of respect for others around them. By lack of respect, I mean words and actions they have in public which are downright rude.
I live next to 2 Mexican families. I love Mexico. It is one of my favorite place to vacation. I love the culture. One family is respectable Old Mexican type of folks. They are nice. The other is a family with a minimum of 9 cars parked all around their house of which only 3 actually run. They are always working on their stereos and listening to loud bass music without care of who their music affects. I dislike these neighbors. I run outside to tell them "No me gusto la musica!!!!!!" They don't care. I call the police. It's a regular thing around here.
We will leave. Call it white flight or whatever the hell you want. If my neighbors want to live that way, carry on. I don't have to. But don't ever judge me for for pursuing a way I want to live.
We have a couple of trashy white families as well. Their yards look like crap, they have 3 dogs in their front yard who bark or howl all night. They are just as guilty of disrepecting their neighbors.
There are white punk @$$ kids who do the same thing, and I dislike their attitudes, words, and actions as well.
Is it a race issue? It is a cultural issue which knows no color, or it knows all color. YOu pick.
Respect for others is a lost art.
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CoolWaters
Ya know, there's not much more anyone can ask of someone else. You've done what you could to live peaceably (I'm assuming from your post). One of the neighbors gets it, the other doesn't. You want to move, then move.
You've not described White Flight.
You've described having done all with no resolution, leave.
Big difference.
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ChattyKathy
Lesson learned today:
Wait till the seas are calmer to join in when you don't have all the facts.
Keep to your guns and do not delete what you posted because it offended someone. If it was in error then so be it. It won't be the first or the last time and I'm in good company on that anyway.
Consider the other rude things said in this thread (much having been deleted at this point) and how benign my statement was in comparison. Consider how that was chosen out of all the other rude things stated and pointed out.
Don't be afraid to appear a fool, that is part of the self-reliance I am working so dang hard to acquire.
Don't back off before you know you were wrong in the first place and stop taking other people's blame.
Don't take myself so serious and since that was in part humor then why second guess myself.
I have been controlled, bullied and treated like a second class citizen in private most of my life, I'm fed up and if I offend someone with my growth process.....well they are just going to have to get over it!
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doojable
Ok, I've read and re-read this thread. I'm not seeing the racial slams that you are CW.
Seems to me that Dot, named more than one reason for moving to the area she moved to. Not wanting to have a certain element near her home was a factor - but not the only factor.
This seems like one of those times when everyone needs to go to their corner and re-group.
BTW - My dad worked for the welfare system for over 25 years in the Bronx in NYC. He was an investigator which means that it was his responsibility to make sure that the folks applying for welfare truly needed it and continued to need it. There were times when he discovered that they no longer were eligible for benefits.
This is the way I understand it:
Statistics and race do play into the bugeting of funds but not in a way that is obvious. The powers that be look at who is on welfare, what category they fall into ( and NO - race is not the only issue - there's the elderly, the mentally challenged, the physically impaired, etc.) and then they look at the demographics of the state, city - whatever. Money is bugeted according to the proportion of the "at risk" population and any changes made in that ratio.
This isn't a racial look at the situation - its a "cold hard facts" look. Statistics generally are used as numbers only.
Anyway..... I'll just huddle here by the counter and drink my coffee. I think I've said all that I can for now.
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CoolWaters
This is the most glaring racial slur, imo.
I took this as a racial slur because she cited the MS-13 (well...others on this thread are calling it the M13...but doing my own research I found out it is MS-13) as the problem.
Her statements just before this one were:
These two statements together makes me think that she is saying that there are groups of MS-13 gang member kids congregating on the corners and the gang signs are being painted.
From the link she provided, I learned that MS-13 gang members are primarily El Salvadoran and/or of other Latino heritage.
Now this quote adds in the "KAatrina" gangs.
Having read thus far of what Dot had said on this thread, and looking back at other threads and posts of Dot's, I assumed she was talking about non-white gangs.
Now if she has all along been talking about Canadian or Swiss or German or other 'white' illegals and gangs, then I have assumed incorrectly...concerning this thread only. As I said, there are plenty of other threads and posts I can find where Dot has out-and-out zeroed in on one ethnic group or another (she tends to have more problems with Latino males, though).
Earlier someone said that maybe racism isn't just about skin color, but about culture. Going by that, Dot has honed in on the gay/lesbian community, the welfare recipients, and many other culturally different groups.
I truly care for Dot. She's been through a whole lot. But so much of what I've seen of her posts here at GSC concerning what she has been going through has been directly proportionate to her level of discomfort with certain groups she takes issue with on a regular basis.
My hope in pointing this out is that Dot will look back at her own posts and threads and see if there's anything to what I've said. Because I am quite seriously concerned for her safety. I would hate to find a thread one day about Dot having a shootout with those kids congregating across the street from her...and Dot not winning that battle.
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ChattyKathy
I think I like this ride of life I'm growing into.
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Tom Strange
OK... I just read this thing... and gotta chime in (big surprise huh!)...
Of course, I haven't read the parts that were deleted so I may be missing something...
I seriously don't think anyone, at least not anyone who comes to these boards, likes gangs or what they represent. I think folks have a different way of dealing with the gang issues just as folks have a different way of dealing with any issue. It certainly seems that CWs method is in the minority here... and I never heard her defend gangs or what they represent. Some may have taken that from her post since she didn't advocate greeting them with a hail of bullets.
We've all got issues... we all deal with them differently.
Again, I haven't seen the deleted threads so I don't know if they have anything to do with the amount of "heat" generated here.
"White Flight" is not a derogatory term unless you choose to make it that. It's a term used to describe a social situation...
I don't particularly like it but it's just a term, a description. I didn't invent the term. It's just there.
Now for the hard part... I don't know how to say it, but I honestly feel that I care about the folks who have posted on this thread.
We are all prejudiced to some degree, we're human.
I'd love to think that none of us like it, but it's there... because we're different and we look at things differently.
We look different, we were raised different, we came from different parts of the country, etc. We've lived different lives.
To deny it exists doesn't make it go away.
(I said "prejudiced" not "racist")... and it appears to me that there has been a sometimes subtle, sometimes overt undercurrent of prejudice on this thread.
Am I just imagining that? Have I taken things wrong or is it there?
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coolchef
so cw you haven't ansewerd me
wuold let you friends or family be harmed by an 8 yo old befor you harmed him
or her
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Tom Strange
CW: I think that post (just above) would have been better done via a PM to Dot... JMO...
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doojable
Good points made Tom.
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HAPe4me
Tom- IMNSHO, this was a good post. thank you for writing. I agree especially with your description concerning "white flight". When I read the word in CW's post, it never crossed my mind that it would be considered an attack, let alone considered one of the worst personal attacks on this thread. I have heard the term for years, as have most who have participated in issues around inner city schools. It is a common term heard (to name one of many) in discussions about keeping racial balance in public schools in areas that have gone under court mandated desegregation plans and equal educational opportunity laws.
Concerning your comments on "prejudice", I agree it is there. Prejucice is not necessarily limited to racial prejudice. I would go further, to say there have been some indications of racial prejudice as well. It does exist, and is something few would admit. It just sometimes leaks out, from all sides of the racial spectrum. It is hideous from any source.
Next, frankly, in my opinion, (probably worth everything that is paid for it), at least two have made allusions to personal things about CW. I am amazed they have not been deleted because of their private and personal nature whether true or not. I have no idea why such information should be shared in an open thread, IM, or anywhere else.
Back to the subject of the thread, I cannot take issue with anything CW has said concerning dealing with gangs. It is not defending gangs to seek ways to help children youth or adults to find alternatives to this path without shooting them first and asking questions later. Keep up the good work CW, you will be rewarded now in personal satisfaction, and if certain interpretations of the Bible are true, in the life beyond. In any case, those you help will benefit and so will society.
~HAP
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templelady
It is a personal choice as to how one determines the environment they are willing to inhabit. To claim that such determinations are in and of themselves based solely on the racial/religious/other attributes of the neighbors or that such words as "inner city", "gang bangers" , etc automatically refer to minorities, unless it is so indicated by the speaker of same, is at best putting words in people's mouths at worst bigotry at some level.
How one responds to the violence or problems of their neighborhood is again a personal choice based on the circumstances of one's own life. Far be it from me to tell anyone what is the correct way of handling things.
It is all too easy to sit here in cyberspace and judge others actions when we are disconnected by time and space, for the most part, from the reality of their lives. In addition because we are disconnected from the reality of their lives it would be equally foolish to assume that what everyone says about a given situation and their actions regarding the same is the truth. Because the reality is that very few of us know each other on a personal level so that blanket assumptions about the intent or the veracity of a poster is in and of itself foolhardy.
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Dot Matrix
Cool waters
You are so entrenched in correctness that you lost your ability to speak so
I am DONE with you.
Anyone else who wants to wave holy hands and sing cambia and invite the "gang" members or illegal -- that's right THE NON AMERICAN border creeping illegal who HAVE NO RIGHT to be here -- into their home you go for it.
I will see you on the news in a body bag.
I am WHITE and I am proud -- how do you like that Sh it? NOT politically right? I do not give a F And I was not having racial slurs. We can have all kinds of other colors to be proud of --
I have the right to get out of the city
I have the right to expect to be safe in my home
And if you try to come into MY life and destroy it then expect to do battle for I will not go down without a fight.
Also because I decided to not klive in the city YOU assumed it was because I do not like blacks or browns. SO YOU are the racist as YOU decided that was my reasoning. My neighbor Donna is a dear friend and is BLACK. And other BLACKS who are not as successful as she is have decided that she is a traitor to her race. She pulled her son out of the GANG school and he is in private school
So I guess those you people are angry at -- is anyone who is not you. Real liberal. Love and embrace the world except anyone who is not you. So f ing typical of the liberals.
IF I do not want to live next to a white person with a car in their yard, that is MY business, If I choose not to live next to a brown person with 11 cars in their yard, that is my choice, If I do not want to live next to a black who hates whites, that is my choice --
Here ya go, don't live next to me either. I am not a racist -- I am a classist -- I want to live near a certain class of people - black white or brown -- Do not paint in our neighborhood, do not play music loud after 10:00 PM, do not shoot at me-- do not break in my home -- Golly I am so evil cause I do not want to live near PEOPLE of any color who do those things.
I was with the police yesterday. We walked in the woods to throw out the camping illegals - I am an an awful white person
F- off I can still have an opinion.
You want to go camping with your "buddies" or invite them in your house -- you go for it.
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Dot Matrix
yeah I said this
QUOTE(Dot Matrix @ Jan 16 2007, 07:08 PM)
If a GANG member is not here legally, I would just as soon drive his azz back across the border myself -- but our cowardly ACLU would hire 45 lawyers to protect his "rights" which the illegals in effect gave up when they entered the country illegally.
I do not apologize to you at all. I would still drive their gang azz back over the border and if that offends you I DO NOT CARE. Then you live with them -- racial slur?
That is part of the politically correctness that does not allow me to speak -- Well, I am talking baby. If you do not like it.
Seal with it or go liberate the illegals -- I will be in the other camp -- voting and marching in protest of your camp.
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Dot Matrix
Yeah I said this
QUOTE(Dot Matrix @ Jan 16 2007, 07:08 PM)
We opened up a youth center directly across the street along with a library.
What happened more and more groups of kids are congregating on the corners and the gang signs are being painted.
Gee, you found out they are latino? Gee, and if they are and if they are dangerous I am not allowed to mention them or somehow I offend all latinos? Then, you do not give LATINOS enough credit and you are the racist
Too bad, you are so liberal you make me sick
I hang out with two woman from EL SALVADOR -- they hate them too - but they can say it because they are latin -- and I cannot because I am white.
I am not potically correct -- I am not running for office.
I have a right to speak
If it bothers you, don't listen I am fine without you
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CoolWaters
Ummmmmmmmmmm...............
If it's all so much your bidness and all so private and all so 'personal'...why the heck did you post about it all on a very public forum?
Did you want responses from only those who would tell you what you wanted to hear?
If you don't want opinions of all kinds, don't post in a public forum.
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Dot Matrix
\ Cool waters
SAID
"So you pulled White Flight and it didn't work. ::shrug:: It never does.
Dot, there is no way on God's green earth that you can seriously say that when you went WOW you were offering people anything more than another con that they saw right through. Well, you can say it, but if you believe it, then that explains a whole lot about why they ripped you off. "Here you pathetic ragamuffin devil spirit in the form of a criminal, I've got ALL THE ANSWERS TO FIX YOU! Just drink this koolaid-like drink and follow the yellow brick road I'm gonna take you down...Glawry!" "Sure, sis, anything you say. Just make sure you show me the layout of your house because while you're being holier than me and drinking poisoned koolaid-like drinks, I'm gonna show you what the real world is like." Lessee...you were in a cult, they were in a gang....you were pushing mind/soul/spirit poison, they were pushing to get your belongings away from you...
Don't you think that people KNOW when you're condescending, arrogant and holier-than-thou towards them?
In the end, you've got a choice: become a gang unto yourself or learn a better way.
If you choose the former, don't beetch when they come for you. (This is referring to a Martin Niemoller quote.) "
So, you like gangs? You want a piece of me -- come on.
YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ME, OTHER THAN I LIVE IN A NICE HOME WITHOUT BULLET HOLES AND I WANT TO KEEP IT THAT WAY -- AND YOU ENJOY IT APPARENTLY.
I hung out with bikers; I carried a knife in my boot to hang in that environment.
Your insults to me are typical "Cool Waters" retaliation.
Blaaa Blaaa Blaaa
YOU play the race card as it seems to give you a life and something to live for.
You bring up your bullet ridden house as if I am suppose to back down –
I am not
Come on
Come on with your typical – feel sorry for me – because ---
So if I keep talking I sound like the bad guy – cause poor you had bullets in your house
BFD
I don’t feel sorry for you, I think you were stupid to stay
Ohhh, I am being a meany --
Well, you were being a twister of content to supply your own needs to apply yourself on the thread as some kind of a hero and make me the bad guy cause I do not want to live by criminals
GET over yourself -- HOT waters there is nothing cool about any of your crap to me.
You want me? The gloves are off
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CoolWaters
I thought you were through with me...
Wow.
Ain't America great?
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Bluzeman
I lived for a time in one of the worst areas in Columbus. For those who know Columbus, it was Greenbriar East. I got out of that area as soon as I could. If YOU enjoy living in crack-infested neighborhoods CW, that's YOUR business. I'm glad that I was able to get OUT of that area. Dot doesn't want HER neighborhood to turn INTO that kind of area. What the he|| is your problem with that CW?
And by the way, what the heck is "bidness"?
Rick
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likeaneagle
I grew up in the inner city of CHicago, prodomently Polish and Italian neighborhood..talkin about good food...:)
But, we are talkin GANGS..Our gangs were Italian..dont wanna mess with them..John Trevolta types with black leather cabreta's..the name of our locals were the 'Sharks'..
They kept us safe..but I grew up in a period of time when they integrated schools, and brought in kids from other districts..
My mom said"NO MORE", I was walking back from shopping and some one came up and threatened to cut off my hair. I was a natural sandy blonde, with hair to the bottom of my butt...I was scarred to go to school..we moved to the burbs soon after..
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CoolWaters
Oh doh ee oh doh, I dunno. All I wanted to do was tell Dot how to live her life. Why is that so bad? I want her to be forced to live where I think she ought to live. Haven't I said that plainly enough? I mean, didn't you get it when I said, "Dot, you MUST STAY where I tell you to stay!"?
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