CFF

[Ham]

I was involved with cff, and can tell you that they are NOT teaching what Dr. realy said and wrote!!!

did you take any of their classes?

their series of classes is about eighty five percent or more the same basic material as vic's foundational, intermediate, advanced.

one thing different though, they have more than one teacher. While that eliminates one central authority figure, I still think they are basically lock stepped.

I think they have so much emotionally invested in twi, that they really can't take an honest look at the doctrine.

I'm not suggesting that they are bad people.

What REALLY troubles me, is not a "kind, gentle organization" that just wants to "move da word", but the kid who seems to be trying to spearhead a return of the old corps program, along with it's austerity and elitist attitude, who regards pfal as his heritage- he's a product of their training program.

I don't think he has even half a clue about the evil "gramps" practiced.. I think they raised him up to think vic was some kinda mythical character, who slew the bible in twelve sessions, and thinks it was the few rotten eggs in the old ministry that caused all the trouble.

The leaders of cff are among his counsellors..

So I wonder. Is he rogue, off on his own adventure, or are they supportive of this "new'" program? Where are these new "leaders and workers" going to be sent?

These are a few issues I'd consider and ask about before getting involved with the group..

:)

Edited April 1, 2008 by Ham

[jen-o]

hi krista!

thanks for the welcome! :~)

actually i was around back in the waydale days... and then i kinda got busy, havin a life and all... LOL... so i haven't been round these parts in about 4 years,,, not even sure what i'm doing here now... LOLOL...

anyway, just want to clarify that i don't hate anyone... vpw, lcm, cff, etc. etc.

and i never had a "bad" experience with cff...

although i did have an experience with them...

and i definitely want to emphasize this last point:

i do not want to sit behind my computer monitor and tell other people what to do...

Lord knows, i have enough stuff on my own plate, and i definitely do NOT have all the answers... there is only one person with all the answers (imo) and that is Jesus...

peace,

jen-o

:~)

[rhino]

My apologies to you if you had a bad experience with CFF. I didn't have a bad experience but was good friends with one of the founders. They were there for me when I left TWI and very helpful - even though I never gave them a dime or really asked for any help. They gave emotional and spiritual support to me at a time when I needed it. I never "joined" but can see how their teachings are attractive to those who, like me, aren't trinitarian, don't believe the dead are alive, etc.

Hi Krista ...

I think most groups have a level where there is support and concern, or they would not exist at all ... no one would be attracted to them. And certainly not everyone in twi was evil ... I was there, and of course I was a saint

So it may very well be that some splintered from twi and are attempting to do a good thing. To have some gatherings with some of the old folks seems like a decent thing, and I doubt there is much heavy handedness at the home fellowship level.

I'm not directly involoved with any of these people, so I don't care what they do, and threats to anyone seem pretty far out there (and should probably be reported to mods here at least, a threat to do harm is maybe illegal). However, early on it did seem to me, some were more concerned about building their own little empire, possibly for profit. Much of the old ego of some seemed still in place.

Now they (or someone) seem to be sponsoring this corps take two thing, so we have chatted about that. It is partly humorous banter, but I think there are genuine philosophical questions that can be discussed here. I wouldn't consider writing them to say how they should run things, but they can read what my opinion is if they would like. I think Ham has asked some good questions.

Certainly trying to build something that is genuinely service oriented is good ... and these folks that have their own life can fellowship together and not be controlled by their MOG's. That doesn't sound so bad, regardless of what doctrine they adhere to ...

But it is those seemingly manipulative aspects that appear to creep into the various splinters that people may speak up about more here. GSC might offer a sort of trial by fire .. though there may be some "haters" that will condemn all that continue in anything the least bit similar to TWI ... which is unfortunate.

[Neo]

did you take any of their classes?

their series of classes is about eighty five percent or more the same basic material as vic's foundational, intermediate, advanced.

one thing different though, they have more than one teacher. While that eliminates one central authority figure, I still think they are basically lock stepped.

I think they have so much emotionally invested in twi, that they really can't take an honest look at the doctrine.

I'm not suggesting that they are bad people.

What REALLY troubles me, is not a "kind, gentle organization" that just wants to "move da word", but the kid who seems to be trying to spearhead a return of the old corps program, along with it's austerity and elitist attitude, who regards pfal as his heritage- he's a product of their training program.

I don't think he has even half a clue about the evil "gramps" practiced.. I think they raised him up to think vic was some kinda mythical character, who slew the bible in twelve sessions, and thinks it was the few rotten eggs in the old ministry that caused all the trouble.

The leaders of cff are among his counsellors..

So I wonder. Is he rogue, off on his own adventure, or are they supportive of this "new'" program? Where are these new "leaders and workers" going to be sent?

These are a few issues I'd consider and ask about before getting involved with the group..

:)

Nice post!

Yes I have taken their class and all it did was leave me empty.

They have taken PFAL and changed parts of it. Also, at many places in the class one, who really understood PFAL, is left hanging because they leave out some most important info.

To be continued.

Neo

[now I see]

The leaders of cff are among his counsellors..

So I wonder. Is he rogue, off on his own adventure, or are they supportive of this "new'" program?

So Ham, why don't you call or email Wayne Clapp regarding Sowers relationship to CFF?  Clapps email is on the CFF contact page...

I don't think there is too much cross involvement or monitering from CFF, CFF is loosely affiliated with many outside fellowships that aren't CFF fellowships.  Their commonality is in the worship of the old vicster and the progeny involvement with CFF.

[Nottawayfer]

Well, if you look back at Post #193 you'll see that I posted something simple, on-topic, and was ready to move on. I struggled valiantly to keep it on the CFF topic, but everyone else wanted to bring up other things that led directly to my bringing up the written PFAL deprivation....

Well, Mike, since you struggled valiantly to keep it on topic......

[Ham]

So Ham, why don't you call or email Wayne Clapp regarding Sowers relationship to CFF? Clapps email is on the CFF contact page...

once I get caught up after finals in a coupla weeks perhaps..

:)

why is it though, I could almost hear my emails being passed from desk to desk.. I'll find out I guess..

[Mike]

Well, Mike, since you struggled valiantly to keep it on topic......

Oh BOY!

Do I win anything?

[Ham]

once I get caught up after finals in a coupla weeks perhaps..

:)

why is it though, I could almost hear my emails being passed from desk to desk.. I'll find out I guess..

In the mean time, I'm sure a dozen or so emails might get his attention..

[excathedra]

um did i post on here already ?

NO you should not get involved

[Neo]

um did i post on here already ?

NO you should not get involved

You are toooo late!

She is in deep!

Neo