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watersedge
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i never thought that life would take the turns that are happening now

dis-obedience, dis-respect, total "dis" this and that

the backwards hats

and falling down pants

where did this start

rap?

techno?

is this now our culture?

for me i cannot accept this

yet i see that this beviour is

accepted

and tolerated

if any wants "goth"

see the result

it"s in the behaviour

of those who don't care

and i just talked to a goth neighbor

he read the start of this thread

will he change?

no way to answer that question

but her hat was on straight

maybe there is hope

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i have a hard time looking at those kids with thier hats on backwards and thier baggy pants etc{but that doesn't make them bad kids}

but i remember my dad shuddering back in the 60's when i was wearing hair down to my sholders and skin tight jeans. he thought the world was going to hell in a hand basket

maybe he was right?

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Man, in the 60s/early 70s you took your safety in your hands every time you went outside if you were a long haired male (depending on where you lived). I got abused for it all the time, but that only strengthened my resolve to keep doing it. That CSNY song 'Almost cut my hair' refers to being a long haired male as "letting your freak flag fly". My dad died when I was young, but my mom said he would've reacted violently. She put up with it.

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I'm glad young men's pants aren't as baggy as they used to be. I was amazed my son was able to walk! His pants are still loose and sit low, but at least I don't worry they're going to fall off of him.

He was never into hats, unless it was 30 below. He had some pretty strange hair styles at times though.

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where did this start

My victorian era grandmother used to have fits because of my dress, behaviour and musical choices when I was younger...

of course she was a rebel to her parents as well -delighting in ragtime music and not succombing to the victorian mores of the early 1900's...

I cant find the quote from Aristotle, who said that the world was surely coming to an end because of the insolence of the younger generation....

which he wrote thousands of years ago

So in answer to your question-- it probably started about the beginning of time

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I had once owned a 1613/14 King James Bible. In the center (between the New and Old Testaments) was a section of Psalms set to music. The introduction to this section said that its purpose was to counteract the proliferation of madrigals, "which corrupt our youth."

So nothing has changed.

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I have a kid who is goth lite--lots of black clothes etc.

Funny thing is--since the black eyeliner of rebellion showed up, the grades(which were never bad) have gone up even higher, and rebel child spends much free time writing fiction and poetry to incense and music of choice.

It could be so much worse.

Edited by Bramble
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quote: I had once owned a 1613/14 King James Bible. In the center (between the New and Old Testaments) was a section of Psalms set to music. The introduction to this section said that its purpose was to counteract the proliferation of madrigals, "which corrupt our youth."

THAT is funny! In 11th grade I sang in choir and in a madrigal group that did gigs the choir didn't do. But one thing was terribly wrong! I, a guy, had hair down to the middle of my back! Somebody wrote a letter to my mom pleading with her to make me cut my hair. Even SHE laughed at that. But I was a "corrupted youth" AND I was a madrigal. It all makes sense now. I guess they could have kicked me out but I was a 1st tenor and none of the other guys could hit the high notes without going into falsetto. They were STUCK with me.

The music we sang in that group was awesome. The girls really made the group, though. Lot of really tight baroque sounding harmonies. I remember one song in particular called "Sing sorrow". It was about a peasant girl who was in love with a nobleman and suffered in silence. The chorus said, "sing sorrow, sing sorrow, now she sleeps in the valley where the wild flowers nod; and no one knows she loved him but herself and God".

But we were evil madrigals, don't forget.

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LOL! I stopped a couple of "goths" on the street the other day and asked them what brand of eyeliner they used cause mine keeps sliding off. :biglaugh: Imagine them going to school telling their friends some "old lady" asked them for make-up advice! :confused:

If'n I was younger, I might try some of their fashion, but not the baggy pants - I don't like to have to keep one hand on my waistband.

My favorite fashion was when they were all wearing their pj's in public. I soooo wished I was their age when that was in style.

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:biglaugh: Too funny, Shaz and johniam.

I had once owned a 1613/14 King James Bible. In the center (between the New and Old Testaments) was a section of Psalms set to music. The introduction to this section said that its purpose was to counteract the proliferation of madrigals, "which corrupt our youth."

Of course, in addition to sacred madrigals, you had your fair share of 'secular' ones, like

Fair Phyllis, with its double entendre line, "Up and down he wandered,"

or "He that will an alehouse keep must have these things in store; a chamber and a feather bed, a chimney and a....

Hey nonny nonny no!" Oh naughty, naughty ellipsis!

(Or maybe "Hey nonny nonny no" was madrigal code for "Hey nonny nonny yeah yeah yeah!") :dance:

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To answer a question, yes i was ahippie and know a few were (are)

to be straight my hippie heart is still in me

though baldness has taken over the hair part

i wore the bells and the sandals

the leather wrist bands and head bands

and the beads

no one back then "played games" as much as some do now

by games i mean finger-pointing accusations that are foundless

this was done to an employee of mine

in front of his wife and 13 year old child

by a goth dressed girl who wanted to "p**s off" her hat-wearing backwards boy friend

for a fight between the two of them

the cops got invovled, my employee was detained, embarrassed in front of co_workers

the community, and his family etc.

all because a goth nut wanted to hurt her boyfriend

there are way too many details to post here right now

but my employee was accussed falsley, and he has to pay the price

of out of control teens fabricating lies

hippies didn't do that, back in the day

nor do normal people do now

i guess responsibilty of action falls upon the shoulders

of others, not the one who starts the action

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