Abi, I don't have a clue, but will look around and see what I can find. WashingtonWeather is an expert in that sort of thing as well as dyslexia, learning development and disabilities. She may be able to point you in the right direction, but may need to be PM'd, I'm not sure how often she gets to drop by.
I have worked in Behavioral and Emotional classes for years.
Ask the Special Education teacher for a copy of his IEP. It should list his learning disabilities. THey are thrilled to help.THey love concerned parents...and probaly dont see enough concerned parents..
I have zero expertise in the field, but I did read some interesting stuff a few years back that sorta relates.
One was a translation of a French physician's journal about the infamous "L'Enfant Sauvage" in the late 18th-early 19th century. The other was a short artilce about a girl, "Genie", who was kept confined to her room for the bulk of her childhood and never given any exposure to real life. I think "Frontline" did a program about the girl as well.
There's a good bit of information about "feral" children that gives some insight into how the brain works (or doesn't) in relationship to environment. Maybe that would be helpful? I dunno, I just found it interesting - as well as heartbreaking...
Thanks. WW and I have emailed back and forth a bit when I was helping Aaron work through some stuff. He, BTW, is doing fantastic these days! Unfortunately, because I took so much time working with him, I nearly missed the fact that Jacob was dealing with his own issues. Thankfully, he has wonderful teachers who made sure they made me aware. :)
He doesn't have an IEP yet, though we are working on that. He also has some visual/motor integration issues, which we recently had him assessed for and we are supposed to have his first IEP meeting this month. Ideally, I'd like to have all the issues we are aware of on the table, and I'd like to be prepared to discuss them from an educated standpoint.
He has one friend and a cousin at school. Beyond that, a lot of the kids tease him because he is different and he just doesn't get the social stuff. I can relate to that, but unfortunately, I am not sure exactly how to help him with it. I can explain to him some of it, but then he asks me really great questions and I just don't have the answer, because quite frankly I happen to agree with him about a lot of it. Also, I want to find a good balance so that he can fit in, but be a leader and not a follower. In other words, I don't want to teach him he should simply "go along with the crowd", because that will cause potentially worse problems down the road.
George, those all sound like interesting possibilities which I will look into later today.
I would start writing all you questions down and be prepared to get answers at the IEP(Individualized Education Plan) in reguards to helping him to compensate for his disabilities, social issues, and support. I understand the peer teasing stuff, its awful how kids treat each other..
This a challenge for most people in general, but may help. In your specific situation I'm sure there are more that are quite similar.
Try to help him make his world a place where he doesn't have to fight anything.
In other words whatever problem there is get that problem into the right hands.
Hands that can handle whatever is being fought against.
For example-
A person at work told another person at work that I was taking longer breaks then I should which is not true.
Now I could have tryed to handle it myself but insterad I went straight to a power greater then me, which is my boss and told her. This took the problem out of my hands and into the proper hands to handle that particular situation.
So a problem with him being harassed at school is not really his problem- it's the ones who are doing the harassing. Therefore a power greater then them must intercede. Keep going up the power chain till you get them to act.
Of course I think you already know this. But don't give up and stop looking for more help.
Your child can get help, more is known then some think. So you may need to educate them in order for them to act. And then they should know where to get that help. It's their JOB. Perhaps they need to be reminded of this.
Being harassed at school is against the school rules for one thing. Whoever is doing it should be reported.
I can explain to him some of it, but then he asks me really great questions and I just don't have the answer, because quite frankly I happen to agree with him about a lot of it.
For instance, he will put on the weirdest clothing combinations and when I point out that the clothes don't match, his response is "who care's their comfortable." Well, its pretty darned hard to argue with that now, isn't it. Or, when eating, he might point out that is is so much easier to pick up the food with his fingers, even if it is spagetti. Or, why should one be embarrassed about burping and farting, they are natural bodily functions?
Clay, it isn't simply an issue of being harrassed by a few kids. Actually, the teasing that does occur doesn't seem to bother him overly much yet - sometimes yes, but mostly I think it confuses him. The problem is bigger though, in that it seems most of the kids don't want to play/interact with him and/or he doesn't play/interact with them. The way it was put in the assessment report was the he "plays along side" the other kids, as opposed to playing with them. Now, playing along side is normal in 3, 4, and 5 year olds. But if I recall correctly, by 7 he should be playing with, not along side.
My concern is that, while it doesn't appear to be overly upsetting to him now, I'm betting the day will come when it will be. When the other kids are invited to birthday parties and he isn't. When no one wants him to play on their team in sports, etc.
Vegan, thanks for the links, I will look those over more thoroughly tonight when the kids are in bed, along with the info from George.
There is a condition called Asperger's Syndrome, which is a high-functioning autism, in which children "just don't get" social interaction and social situations like other kids do. There are books published (not many) to help these kids "get it." Although your child doesn't have Asperger's, you can help learn how to clue him in to social situations by reading these books. Check out Amazon.com for some of these titles. One for parents is "It's So Much Work To Be Your Friend," about helping children with learning disabilities clue in to social interactions (there is an amazingly high correlation between academic learning disabilities and social awkwardness). One book for kids, if yours is old enough, is by a young man with Asperger's who wrote it with his child psychologist. The kid's name was Jarvis Clutch, and the book is "Jarvis Clutch, Social Spy." It's highly recommended by a child psychologist that I know.
Good luck with this. It's important, and I'm glad you're taking steps to help your little one.
I feel like I should have some good response, too, since my mom was a great teacher and my brother is now and has been a teacher for over 25 years, and my sister is a doctor. . . but I can only offer my prayers, and I am thankful that he has such concerned parents:)
One thing I do know that nice teachers REALLY LIKE parents that care because then they know their efforts are not wasted.
Good teachers and loving parents go together like milk and cream (where did that come from?:) Maybe because they blend together real nice and the way God made it they were one thing at the first.)
Just found this thread Abi and Sushi. Before I cut and paste a bunch a "junk" and give you links, I will say this. Honoring the steps of development is very important. In other words, while his peers may be at a certain level, he may not and will need to have the kind of help that will be sequential to the natural steps of development. That said, let me think about this.
As far as being different socially or being excessively pragmatic (which wouldn't hurt lot of us) you will have to decide what the world is going to just have to put up with and what yo want to approach with Jacob. For example. Clothes...who really gives a twit in the big picture..some kids will even admire him for his individuality. Eating spaghetti with fingers won't go over as well. Its perfectly normal for these kids to want a GOOD reason to change what has been working for them. In the case of my own daughter, I have to explain the idea that it bothers other people and in society some things bother people more than others. (short version....it took longer than that, but you get the idea)
I will put up some developmental milestone charts I use.. have to find them in my messy hard drive...if I cant I know where good links are.
BUT REMEMBER:
God never called any of us ADD, ADHD, Dyslexic etc. We just have a lot of square shaped people being forced to fit in circle holes.
do a google on Gardener's Theory of Multiple Intelligences.
It will give you a new perspective as to strengths and weaknesses in all of us, including our children.
The other question I have is are you satisfied he is not lacking in language and are you trying to zero in on other specific developmental issues? Am I getting this correctly? Also, is it affecting his academics? social life? family life? or only 1 of 3 or 2 of 3....
email me if you wan to save specifics for private.
I know about Asberger's...and Abi got an education about that...it would need more evaluation. I also think about PDD-NOS (pervasive development disorder - not otherwise specified) all of the "disorders" in these groups are on a huge continuum. PDD is the stew pot they throw it in if they cannot find a profile to fit another title.
Autism focus in language suggests pragmatic/sematic deficits may explain behavioral problems...what we think of as difficulty socializing. (because these children have a different processing system)
Dr. Carol Westby (google her--they do Westby Workshops in Austrailia) one of my past professors has a checklist for school age children:
Word decoding markedly better than reading comprehension
Obsessive behaviors - everything from pacing, arraging, talking on specific topics
Insensitivity to peoples' facial expressions
Difficulty with generalization
Difficulty reasoning about psychological relationships
Deficits in generating pretend acts
Joint attention reference deficits
Difficult turn taking
Symbolism is difficult to relate to
Difficulty with sarcasm or deception
Difficulty understanding consequence in relation to plans or feeling of others
These are just a quicky checklist. A full evaluation reveals much more and this list obviously like any magazine survey is just a cursory look at issues of relevance.
Is part of this him simply needing to find others who like the same things and think the same way he does for the social aspect of development. He seems much further along cognitively in some aspects and much more mature when it comes to other things - I think it's awesome that he is less concerned about what others think of his dress and actions than so much of the general population. That's got to come from healthy self-esteem fostered by a good Mama. ;)
Wouldn't life have been so much easier for the Trekkies if there had actually been other Trekkies in their school? Finding others with similar interests can be very difficult for those interested in non-mainstream interests. He played WITH the others at the last Weenie Roast, didn't he? I thought all the kids played together very well. But, then again, all those kids are awesome, more mature for their ages and raised by great parents.
I realize there's much more to the situation than this, but it's just my totally ignorant, childless observation.
God never called any of us ADD, ADHD, Dyslexic etc. We just have a lot of square shaped people being forced to fit in circle holes.
Excellent point WW.
My oldest son is ADD according to the tests they gave my younger son who they thought was ADD.
lol...it was kind of funny when they sent us the test to watch and test our youngest son and see that he wasn't ADD but the test fit our oldest son perfectly just about.
And yeah our oldest was a loner and had some bad habits that were not usual.
We continued to point them out to him fairly consistently, but not in a way that would start some big uproar, just a reminding him of the fact that some of these habits might hold him back or hinder him in the things that he wants to accomplish.
That was around 7 to even now when he is 17. And he got harassed at school as he grew older and the principal stepped in and warned the entire student body of harassment and even of physical assault.
Many of the teachers said he would probably be running companies that the ones bugging him would be working for.
So really, you just might have quite the genius right there with you.
And the point is, and it is what you are already doing, gentle reminders and getting the right info about these things. Talking about it with the teachers and others that know of the positives of a child that seems to be 'different'.
Wow, leave for a while and see what happens WW, I am really glad to see you here!!!!! I love picking your brain about this stuff, you are always such a big help!!!!!
First, I have been through the Aspergers and PDD-NOS stuff with Aaron and I am 90% certain that this is not what Jacob is dealing with. I say 90% because in kindergarten I insisted for the entire year he didn't have ADHD either. If PDD is what he is dealing with, it has to be a very mild form, because other than "living in his own world", he really displays no other signs.
Likewise, he really doesn't have any language issues beyond an almost undetectible speech impediment and issues with written expression which are a result of the visual/motor integration problem.
He does great academically - straight A's. At home, we have attention issues which require a lot of patience on our part, and we have to really watch him out in public so he doesn't wander off, but other than that, he's fine - but then he lives with a family of misfit geeks, so he fits right in here
Mostly, my concerns are regarding socialization, or the lack thereof, and the potential self-esteem problems that could come with it down the road. I like that he marchs to the beat of his own drum, really. Aaron does too - but Aaron seems to have found a good balance that allows him to make friends pretty well too, Jacob hasn't found that yet.
Yes, Belle, he can play with kids. He plays with his cousin, who is younger and he has one friend who he absolutely loves and those are good things. He also plays with his older brother, when big brother is feeling especially bored or benevolent. But it seems, developmentally, he should have moved into the stage where he is starting to socialize more - to make more school friends.
The fact that the other kids seem to NOT want to play with him is concerning. I think that is a result of some of his odd behaviors. Some of those behaviors I am aware of, but I think I will need to get more information from his teacher on that score. If my memory is correct, by this age most kids would be more aware of how other kids behave and would sort of naturally modify their own behavior to fit in a bit more. I would assume the reason he hasn't done that is because he is completely unaware of what the other kids do or do not do. Which I guess comes back to, how do I help him to be more aware?
And now I am off to google Gardener's Theory of Multiple Intelligences. :D
Abi - I do have a list of normal development for semantic/pragmatic abilities. I have to dig it up and the list is pretty long. It would be a good measuring stick to some degree. The above mentioned issues are non-issues when they only appear sa 1 or 2 instances or in isolation. It's when a child shows the majority of these things that it becomes time for a new course of teaching. And as you I'm sure have intelligently supposed, the reverse/opposite of that "checklist" are the beginnings of a "normal" elementary school aged child in their development.
Upon reflection, I felt I shared too much personal information about my situation and it sat here like a broken thumb so I decided to remove it. I wish the child mentioned in this thread and his parents all the best.
He does great academically - straight A's. At home, we have attention issues which require a lot of patience on our part, and we have to really watch him out in public so he doesn't wander off, but other than that, he's fine - but then he lives with a family of misfit geeks, so he fits right in here
Mostly, my concerns are regarding socialization, or the lack thereof, and the potential self-esteem problems that could come with it down the road. I like that he marchs to the beat of his own drum, really. Aaron does too - but Aaron seems to have found a good balance that allows him to make friends pretty well too, Jacob hasn't found that yet.
Abi,
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but it sounds like you have a potentially gifted child. And even if not gifted, clearly you describe social issues MANY gifted children have to deal with.
I can tell you that there ARE a good number of resources regarding this type of situation.
My stepson had similar experiences when he was about that age. He did outgrow the social awkwardness, but stayed very bright.
He graduated from the University of Arizona last May with a degree in Optical Engineering and is now working for a major defense contractor in Tucson as an optical engineer. I'm incredibly proud of him... but his primary grades in elementary school were quite an ordeal...
So, in checking with special ed teachers, they probably have some insight on how some kids who may seem like they need special ed alternatively may in fact be very bright and talented students...
It was mentioned before but Rocky said it again. I suspect that he is also on the high end of intellectual abilities. "Gifted" is a good word, although sometimes dealing with him doesn't let you think so.
When he is playing, can you get a sense of what is happening in his imagination? What I mean by that is - suppose he has a small car and is rolling it by a pile of blocks. Can you sense whether he has a scene or a role he's playing or is he just rolling the car. [i'm having trouble describing what I'm thinking]
Suppose he had something like a Playshool Gas Stations. Can you get a sense if he's focused on that particular object in front of him or if he is in some way relating it to your local real life gas station, or some time when he was in the car when dad or you took the car for gas or service. I guess I'm wondering if you can get a sense if he's able to pretend - and if so, at what level.
It was mentioned before but Rocky said it again. I suspect that he is also on the high end of intellectual abilities. "Gifted" is a good word, although sometimes dealing with him doesn't let you think so.
Great, you raise him! LOL I'm kidding. Yes, he is very bright - never had him tested for "giftedness" and probably won't, certainly not before high school. The reason for that is in our state, we have no programs for gifted kids until they reach highschool. However, because he has been diagnosed with ADHD, he can qualify for an IEP which could include more challenging work.
But in answer to your question, he has an incredible imagination. I always say that he got a double dose of imagination because his older brother didn't get one. :) Mostly, I just want to find a way to help him figure out how to navigate in THIS world to the extent he will need to, in order to grow into a relatively well adjusted adult.
:) Mostly, I just want to find a way to help him figure out how to navigate in THIS world to the extent he will need to, in order to grow into a relatively well adjusted adult.
THAT is WHY you would be well advised to look into resources for gifted kids. THEY (the professionals and parents who deal with gifted kids) understand the SOCIAL and emotional issues you have been describing.... IF you want effective insight, at least look into it. You don't need to have your son tested for giftedness in order for you to get insight on those social and emotional developmental issues.
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Belle
Abi, I don't have a clue, but will look around and see what I can find. WashingtonWeather is an expert in that sort of thing as well as dyslexia, learning development and disabilities. She may be able to point you in the right direction, but may need to be PM'd, I'm not sure how often she gets to drop by.
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likeaneagle
I think WashingtonWeather can help you.
I have worked in Behavioral and Emotional classes for years.
Ask the Special Education teacher for a copy of his IEP. It should list his learning disabilities. THey are thrilled to help.THey love concerned parents...and probaly dont see enough concerned parents..
Good for you Sushi!!
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George Aar
I have zero expertise in the field, but I did read some interesting stuff a few years back that sorta relates.
One was a translation of a French physician's journal about the infamous "L'Enfant Sauvage" in the late 18th-early 19th century. The other was a short artilce about a girl, "Genie", who was kept confined to her room for the bulk of her childhood and never given any exposure to real life. I think "Frontline" did a program about the girl as well.
There's a good bit of information about "feral" children that gives some insight into how the brain works (or doesn't) in relationship to environment. Maybe that would be helpful? I dunno, I just found it interesting - as well as heartbreaking...
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Abigail
Thanks. WW and I have emailed back and forth a bit when I was helping Aaron work through some stuff. He, BTW, is doing fantastic these days! Unfortunately, because I took so much time working with him, I nearly missed the fact that Jacob was dealing with his own issues. Thankfully, he has wonderful teachers who made sure they made me aware. :)
He doesn't have an IEP yet, though we are working on that. He also has some visual/motor integration issues, which we recently had him assessed for and we are supposed to have his first IEP meeting this month. Ideally, I'd like to have all the issues we are aware of on the table, and I'd like to be prepared to discuss them from an educated standpoint.
He has one friend and a cousin at school. Beyond that, a lot of the kids tease him because he is different and he just doesn't get the social stuff. I can relate to that, but unfortunately, I am not sure exactly how to help him with it. I can explain to him some of it, but then he asks me really great questions and I just don't have the answer, because quite frankly I happen to agree with him about a lot of it. Also, I want to find a good balance so that he can fit in, but be a leader and not a follower. In other words, I don't want to teach him he should simply "go along with the crowd", because that will cause potentially worse problems down the road.
George, those all sound like interesting possibilities which I will look into later today.
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likeaneagle
Abi and Sushi-
I would start writing all you questions down and be prepared to get answers at the IEP(Individualized Education Plan) in reguards to helping him to compensate for his disabilities, social issues, and support. I understand the peer teasing stuff, its awful how kids treat each other..
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cman
Hi Abi,
This a challenge for most people in general, but may help. In your specific situation I'm sure there are more that are quite similar.
Try to help him make his world a place where he doesn't have to fight anything.
In other words whatever problem there is get that problem into the right hands.
Hands that can handle whatever is being fought against.
For example-
A person at work told another person at work that I was taking longer breaks then I should which is not true.
Now I could have tryed to handle it myself but insterad I went straight to a power greater then me, which is my boss and told her. This took the problem out of my hands and into the proper hands to handle that particular situation.
So a problem with him being harassed at school is not really his problem- it's the ones who are doing the harassing. Therefore a power greater then them must intercede. Keep going up the power chain till you get them to act.
Of course I think you already know this. But don't give up and stop looking for more help.
Your child can get help, more is known then some think. So you may need to educate them in order for them to act. And then they should know where to get that help. It's their JOB. Perhaps they need to be reminded of this.
Being harassed at school is against the school rules for one thing. Whoever is doing it should be reported.
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VeganXTC
http://childparenting.about.com/od/childdevelopment/ This site is pretty simple, but has some interesting info.
I found lots of sites for brain development of babies, but nothing for school age children, so I can't help with search terms. Sorry!
Anyway, good luck with your search! And hugs for the boys!
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excathedra
ab, what do you mean here ?
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Abigail
For instance, he will put on the weirdest clothing combinations and when I point out that the clothes don't match, his response is "who care's their comfortable." Well, its pretty darned hard to argue with that now, isn't it.
Or, when eating, he might point out that is is so much easier to pick up the food with his fingers, even if it is spagetti. Or, why should one be embarrassed about burping and farting, they are natural bodily functions?
Clay, it isn't simply an issue of being harrassed by a few kids. Actually, the teasing that does occur doesn't seem to bother him overly much yet - sometimes yes, but mostly I think it confuses him. The problem is bigger though, in that it seems most of the kids don't want to play/interact with him and/or he doesn't play/interact with them. The way it was put in the assessment report was the he "plays along side" the other kids, as opposed to playing with them. Now, playing along side is normal in 3, 4, and 5 year olds. But if I recall correctly, by 7 he should be playing with, not along side.
My concern is that, while it doesn't appear to be overly upsetting to him now, I'm betting the day will come when it will be. When the other kids are invited to birthday parties and he isn't. When no one wants him to play on their team in sports, etc.
Vegan, thanks for the links, I will look those over more thoroughly tonight when the kids are in bed, along with the info from George.
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notinKansasanymore
There is a condition called Asperger's Syndrome, which is a high-functioning autism, in which children "just don't get" social interaction and social situations like other kids do. There are books published (not many) to help these kids "get it." Although your child doesn't have Asperger's, you can help learn how to clue him in to social situations by reading these books. Check out Amazon.com for some of these titles. One for parents is "It's So Much Work To Be Your Friend," about helping children with learning disabilities clue in to social interactions (there is an amazingly high correlation between academic learning disabilities and social awkwardness). One book for kids, if yours is old enough, is by a young man with Asperger's who wrote it with his child psychologist. The kid's name was Jarvis Clutch, and the book is "Jarvis Clutch, Social Spy." It's highly recommended by a child psychologist that I know.
Good luck with this. It's important, and I'm glad you're taking steps to help your little one.
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Kit Sober
All these intelligent responses!
I feel like I should have some good response, too, since my mom was a great teacher and my brother is now and has been a teacher for over 25 years, and my sister is a doctor. . . but I can only offer my prayers, and I am thankful that he has such concerned parents:)
One thing I do know that nice teachers REALLY LIKE parents that care because then they know their efforts are not wasted.
Good teachers and loving parents go together like milk and cream (where did that come from?:) Maybe because they blend together real nice and the way God made it they were one thing at the first.)
Anyway, praying with you and for you,
I remain hopefully,
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Dot Matrix
NIKA
That's what I was thinking. There was a show on it. Sounds like it could be... What does WW think?
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washingtonweather
Just found this thread Abi and Sushi. Before I cut and paste a bunch a "junk" and give you links, I will say this. Honoring the steps of development is very important. In other words, while his peers may be at a certain level, he may not and will need to have the kind of help that will be sequential to the natural steps of development. That said, let me think about this.
As far as being different socially or being excessively pragmatic (which wouldn't hurt lot of us) you will have to decide what the world is going to just have to put up with and what yo want to approach with Jacob. For example. Clothes...who really gives a twit in the big picture..some kids will even admire him for his individuality. Eating spaghetti with fingers won't go over as well. Its perfectly normal for these kids to want a GOOD reason to change what has been working for them. In the case of my own daughter, I have to explain the idea that it bothers other people and in society some things bother people more than others. (short version....it took longer than that, but you get the idea)
I will put up some developmental milestone charts I use.. have to find them in my messy hard drive...if I cant I know where good links are.
BUT REMEMBER:
God never called any of us ADD, ADHD, Dyslexic etc. We just have a lot of square shaped people being forced to fit in circle holes.
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washingtonweather
do a google on Gardener's Theory of Multiple Intelligences.
It will give you a new perspective as to strengths and weaknesses in all of us, including our children.
The other question I have is are you satisfied he is not lacking in language and are you trying to zero in on other specific developmental issues? Am I getting this correctly? Also, is it affecting his academics? social life? family life? or only 1 of 3 or 2 of 3....
email me if you wan to save specifics for private.
LiannePierce@gmail.com
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washingtonweather
I know about Asberger's...and Abi got an education about that...it would need more evaluation. I also think about PDD-NOS (pervasive development disorder - not otherwise specified) all of the "disorders" in these groups are on a huge continuum. PDD is the stew pot they throw it in if they cannot find a profile to fit another title.
Autism focus in language suggests pragmatic/sematic deficits may explain behavioral problems...what we think of as difficulty socializing. (because these children have a different processing system)
Dr. Carol Westby (google her--they do Westby Workshops in Austrailia) one of my past professors has a checklist for school age children:
Word decoding markedly better than reading comprehension
Obsessive behaviors - everything from pacing, arraging, talking on specific topics
Insensitivity to peoples' facial expressions
Difficulty with generalization
Difficulty reasoning about psychological relationships
Deficits in generating pretend acts
Joint attention reference deficits
Difficult turn taking
Symbolism is difficult to relate to
Difficulty with sarcasm or deception
Difficulty understanding consequence in relation to plans or feeling of others
These are just a quicky checklist. A full evaluation reveals much more and this list obviously like any magazine survey is just a cursory look at issues of relevance.
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Belle
Is part of this him simply needing to find others who like the same things and think the same way he does for the social aspect of development. He seems much further along cognitively in some aspects and much more mature when it comes to other things - I think it's awesome that he is less concerned about what others think of his dress and actions than so much of the general population. That's got to come from healthy self-esteem fostered by a good Mama. ;)
Wouldn't life have been so much easier for the Trekkies if there had actually been other Trekkies in their school? Finding others with similar interests can be very difficult for those interested in non-mainstream interests. He played WITH the others at the last Weenie Roast, didn't he? I thought all the kids played together very well. But, then again, all those kids are awesome, more mature for their ages and raised by great parents.
I realize there's much more to the situation than this, but it's just my totally ignorant, childless observation.
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cman
Excellent point WW.
My oldest son is ADD according to the tests they gave my younger son who they thought was ADD.
lol...it was kind of funny when they sent us the test to watch and test our youngest son and see that he wasn't ADD but the test fit our oldest son perfectly just about.
And yeah our oldest was a loner and had some bad habits that were not usual.
We continued to point them out to him fairly consistently, but not in a way that would start some big uproar, just a reminding him of the fact that some of these habits might hold him back or hinder him in the things that he wants to accomplish.
That was around 7 to even now when he is 17. And he got harassed at school as he grew older and the principal stepped in and warned the entire student body of harassment and even of physical assault.
Many of the teachers said he would probably be running companies that the ones bugging him would be working for.
So really, you just might have quite the genius right there with you.
And the point is, and it is what you are already doing, gentle reminders and getting the right info about these things. Talking about it with the teachers and others that know of the positives of a child that seems to be 'different'.
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Abigail
Wow, leave for a while and see what happens
WW, I am really glad to see you here!!!!! I love picking your brain about this stuff, you are always such a big help!!!!!
First, I have been through the Aspergers and PDD-NOS stuff with Aaron and I am 90% certain that this is not what Jacob is dealing with. I say 90% because in kindergarten I insisted for the entire year he didn't have ADHD either. If PDD is what he is dealing with, it has to be a very mild form, because other than "living in his own world", he really displays no other signs.
Likewise, he really doesn't have any language issues beyond an almost undetectible speech impediment and issues with written expression which are a result of the visual/motor integration problem.
He does great academically - straight A's. At home, we have attention issues which require a lot of patience on our part, and we have to really watch him out in public so he doesn't wander off, but other than that, he's fine - but then he lives with a family of misfit geeks, so he fits right in here
Mostly, my concerns are regarding socialization, or the lack thereof, and the potential self-esteem problems that could come with it down the road. I like that he marchs to the beat of his own drum, really. Aaron does too - but Aaron seems to have found a good balance that allows him to make friends pretty well too, Jacob hasn't found that yet.
Yes, Belle, he can play with kids. He plays with his cousin, who is younger and he has one friend who he absolutely loves and those are good things. He also plays with his older brother, when big brother is feeling especially bored or benevolent. But it seems, developmentally, he should have moved into the stage where he is starting to socialize more - to make more school friends.
The fact that the other kids seem to NOT want to play with him is concerning. I think that is a result of some of his odd behaviors. Some of those behaviors I am aware of, but I think I will need to get more information from his teacher on that score. If my memory is correct, by this age most kids would be more aware of how other kids behave and would sort of naturally modify their own behavior to fit in a bit more. I would assume the reason he hasn't done that is because he is completely unaware of what the other kids do or do not do. Which I guess comes back to, how do I help him to be more aware?
And now I am off to google Gardener's Theory of Multiple Intelligences. :D
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washingtonweather
Abi - I do have a list of normal development for semantic/pragmatic abilities. I have to dig it up and the list is pretty long. It would be a good measuring stick to some degree. The above mentioned issues are non-issues when they only appear sa 1 or 2 instances or in isolation. It's when a child shows the majority of these things that it becomes time for a new course of teaching. And as you I'm sure have intelligently supposed, the reverse/opposite of that "checklist" are the beginnings of a "normal" elementary school aged child in their development.
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FullCircle
Upon reflection, I felt I shared too much personal information about my situation and it sat here like a broken thumb so I decided to remove it. I wish the child mentioned in this thread and his parents all the best.
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Rocky
Abi,
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but it sounds like you have a potentially gifted child. And even if not gifted, clearly you describe social issues MANY gifted children have to deal with.
I can tell you that there ARE a good number of resources regarding this type of situation.
My stepson had similar experiences when he was about that age. He did outgrow the social awkwardness, but stayed very bright.
He graduated from the University of Arizona last May with a degree in Optical Engineering and is now working for a major defense contractor in Tucson as an optical engineer. I'm incredibly proud of him... but his primary grades in elementary school were quite an ordeal...
So, in checking with special ed teachers, they probably have some insight on how some kids who may seem like they need special ed alternatively may in fact be very bright and talented students...
I hope you find some good insight.
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krys
It was mentioned before but Rocky said it again. I suspect that he is also on the high end of intellectual abilities. "Gifted" is a good word, although sometimes dealing with him doesn't let you think so.
When he is playing, can you get a sense of what is happening in his imagination? What I mean by that is - suppose he has a small car and is rolling it by a pile of blocks. Can you sense whether he has a scene or a role he's playing or is he just rolling the car. [i'm having trouble describing what I'm thinking]
Suppose he had something like a Playshool Gas Stations. Can you get a sense if he's focused on that particular object in front of him or if he is in some way relating it to your local real life gas station, or some time when he was in the car when dad or you took the car for gas or service. I guess I'm wondering if you can get a sense if he's able to pretend - and if so, at what level.
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Abigail
Great, you raise him! LOL I'm kidding. Yes, he is very bright - never had him tested for "giftedness" and probably won't, certainly not before high school. The reason for that is in our state, we have no programs for gifted kids until they reach highschool. However, because he has been diagnosed with ADHD, he can qualify for an IEP which could include more challenging work.
But in answer to your question, he has an incredible imagination. I always say that he got a double dose of imagination because his older brother didn't get one. :) Mostly, I just want to find a way to help him figure out how to navigate in THIS world to the extent he will need to, in order to grow into a relatively well adjusted adult.
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Rocky
THAT is WHY you would be well advised to look into resources for gifted kids. THEY (the professionals and parents who deal with gifted kids) understand the SOCIAL and emotional issues you have been describing.... IF you want effective insight, at least look into it. You don't need to have your son tested for giftedness in order for you to get insight on those social and emotional developmental issues.
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