T-Bone -It goes like this: when you're spiritual inner ear get infected you get spiritual virtigo and then you're spiritual equilibrium is off. Then you get spiritually dizzy and you fall......
Ri-i-i-i-i-i-ght....see the way to get someone to swallow some of this garbage is to make an analogy where there really is no analogy and add the work 'spiritual' to any other word that sounds good. Voila! Now you have a one-liner that everyone will quote and you'll look oh so spiritual.
"Waking the Dead" is a book by John Eldredge about how the renewed heart - in conjunction with a renewed mind -- is critical for living with compassion. "Create in me a pure and contrite heart" as King David said. That kind of stuff.
It's about waking the zombie dead, well-meaning Christians who are bored or disillusioned with church. His website is called Ransomed Heart.
But that did make me laugh about it not being VP. :-)
I don't remember what the original 2 questions were....
Newcomer
This sounds like it might come in handy.
Hello, Newcomer.
You do realize that if you stick around, you'll no longer be new and we'll have to
"Things look rather different after you sit a spell.. maybe thats what he's afraid of..."
Wow...ain't that the truth!!!
Also, it's been said that we are being "judgemental" in the letter. We are not called to judge, but we are expected to DISCERN. Those of us who have "set a spell" are doing that.
God says to study to be quiet----so that we can disern.
Welcome Newcomer! Thanks for posting your thoughts. Fresh perspectives are always welcomed. You have a gift for setting down your thoughts, imho (i.e. good communicator).
I'm not offended at all that you've labeled everyone here "wounded posters". Do you consider yourself also to fall into the "wounded posters" category?
As far as the players at the helm at CES, yes, mistakes were made. Egos blinded good judgment. Obviously some things were handled poorly, and some folks twisted some things in the Word to suit themselves. Objectivity and humility is still lacking in several areas. And forums like these give people a place to vent and process, express disappointment, say "I told ya so" and try to get facts, although I think more gossip is being relayed here than facts.
Nicely put (in bold).
You and I will be held accountable for "every idle word" on that Great Day. Think about it. Meanwhile, I lift up a prayer for all those who love Christ and want to live for him, but who have strayed or become blinded or hard-hearted, and for those who have been hurt to be comforted, to see these people as Christ sees them, and eventually to forgive as God has forgiven them and just let it go. Newcomer
Just to clarify what many of us do here at gs, since you're new, is this:
SOUND THE TRUMPETS. RING THE ALARM.
This is one of the most loving things one can do, imho, is to help others escape the trap that we fell into.
Sounds like you read a lot. I think you'll find the posters here read or have read tons of books on mental health and healing from cults and destructive organizations. We even have a recommended book list somewhere if you're interested.
As Rejoice said, this is a forum where we post our thoughts and discernments about, among other things, twi and its offshoots. CES is a twi offshoot. It is my belief that thousands have experienced healing and deliverance by reading the dissection of the twi-thought-machine by the posters here. Why not accept Rejoice's invitation to take your shoes off and "set a spell" and you may come to find that you'll judge us less harshly and maybe even like us once you've gotten to know us.
Hey there, waterbuffalo. I did not mean to offend you. You inferred that I meant everyone posting here is wounded, and you inferred incorrectly that by using that term I was judging you and everyone else. I did not use the word judge in my comments, although I did warn about gossip and I don't apologize for that.
My original post was addressing the questions in the beginning of the thread about spiritual equilibrium and woundedness.
Sure, I'm wounded. Strict fundamental religious upbringing, sexual abuse, miscarriage, barrenness, divorce... I can tell you all about woundedness... and healing. So when I said wounded, I meant either those who in many of these posts were (self-admittedly) wounded back in the past or they perhaps still are wounded, which is apparent by the tone of one's words.
That being said, I appreciate your point about the usefulness of anonymous forums in order to share feelings and gain perspective and "undo" whatever you have to undo. By your own post, you confirm that there are many wounded coming here for help.
I was not in TWI, but I know all about it, because yes, I am pretty well-read and I know several people who were in TWI and have heard it all from various angles. But do you mean, that since I'm new and have acknowledged some woundedness expressed by many posters here, that I have to "set a spell" and cannot express my opinion? I thought that the moderator of this board told me I could express my opinion like you can.
So lighten up on me, okay? I guess I'll have to stick with Newcomer until I think of something more creative. Can I use that word, creative? (One ex-TWI person told me only God was creative. Oy vey!)
Again, welcome. As I stated at the beginning of my reply, I wasn't offened that you addressed posters on this board as wounded at all. I would guess that few of us could honestly say we we've received no wounds in this life. Most are pretty honest about that here.
As you've probably seen, we dialogue here. There is no set way to express your thoughts or your feelings. I am happy that you have expressed yours and have even recommended books that you have enjoyed reading. Again, you'll find most of us here are readers too and you may even learn about some good ones that others recommend.
I reserve the right to sound the alarm on twi and its offshoots, having had first hand experience in both and their toxic effects. That does not in anyway mean I've not forgiven individuals who merely acted in ways they were trained in in the twi cult. Same goes for the offshoots. I totally forgive any and all who did anything unhealthy or harmful in my life because I, too, harmed others. But, I have enough love for those who are still struggling thinking churches are evil and not seeing anyway out of twi or offshoots to tell them that FREEDOM is out there waiting for you and it is the life you've been waiting and looking for. The control, manipulation, secrecy, and plain downright deception in these groups is what I reserve the right to bring to light here in these forums.
Be creative by all means. I use that word all of the time. It is my right as an American to still freely express myself with my words. On second thought, that point may be debatable with all of the political correctness out there, but I digress. lol.
I've reread my post and please believe me, "set a spell" does not mean you shouldn't talk. It's simply an invitation to get to know us better.
hi, newcomer. reading your reply, i guess i wasn't clear enough in my original question. if karen ann, and whoever else, is still "wounded" after years and years of commitment to a way of thinking that promises healing, then maybe it's time to consider a new way of thinking.
i've been away from the whole thing for almost 20 years. and i don't consider myself wounded IN THE LEAST. i'm just fine, thank you. (maybe it's because i don't spend so much of my time "considering myself." for all its lip service about service, there seems to be an awful lot in the twi/ces brand of christianity that's pretty self-centered.) of course, from their point of view, i just don't know how wounded i am. and from MY point of view, that's a fookin' trap if i ever saw one.
Regarding JAL's use of the word "woundedness" in his quote from the second question of this thread, if I'm remembering rightly, "woundedness" is a term of art in the Momentus "kill the victim before the victim kills you" world view.
Regarding JAL's use of the word "woundedness" in his quote from the second question of this thread, if I'm remembering rightly, "woundedness" is a term of art in the Momentus "kill the victim before the victim kills you" world view.
huh? "a term of art?" wuzzat mean?
i have no doubt that the term "woundedness" comes out of some wackjob belief system--a made-up psychobabble word. (it's so made up that when you search for it on google, google asks, "Did you mean boundedness?")
Hey, sprawled. You're right, "woundedness" is not in the dictionary, but from the context, we can assume it means a state of being wounded.
I don't know what JAL was referring to, what KAG's "wound" was or is. I was abused at age 4, grew up memorizing Bible -- "committed to a way of thinking" as you said -- and never told anyone about that abuse until I was FORTY YEARS OLD! of course, by that time, that abuse had wormed its way into my core and due to my own denial and thinking I could just "be strong and get over it" and "hey, I'm not a victim' without ever grieving it, well, it was the devil's foothold. It was the root motivator of many stupid decisions and rationalizations.
Believe me, a "way of thinking" does not heal a person's heart and soul, no matter how long one does it. It is head knowledge, which I believe someone else on this board duly noted as "puffing up.' So maybe KAG was looking for her healing in ways that got twisted and turned into control and manipulation, which is based in insecurity.
I am purely speculating, and it doesn't make control freaks right. They are wrong. But I'm just saying our society has really become intolerant of wounded souls and those who need time and permission to grieve. Like people here are venting (translation: grieving) over old TWI wounds. Grieving here is certainly better than making someone else miserable.
Back in the old days, people wore black armbands for a year after a family member died. It was a sign of mourning and respect and people respected it. Now, we tell people to "get over it" in a few days and get back to work, what's the matter with you? Compassion has gone by the wayside. What's super-hard is to be compassionate to someone who is a total jackass and personally betrayed you. For those people, we can be compassionate yet still maintain our good sense and boundaries. I think a lot of folks here have learned that.
newcomer--i've tried formulating a response this way and that way, and finally realized i've already said what i wanted to say. you're coming from some other place, it seems. let's just leave it at that.
on a good day when everything is ging alright and no one is in trouble or hurt and life is fine.
I say "lets all pray, and think good thoughts together and analize the circumstance to understand we all get sad sometimes".
Then Real life happens and I cant aford the prescriptions so popular to help with such a dandy mood, and I realize.
crap life is difficult, those good days have turned into moments and LOTS of folks betray one another, and actualy you know what PEOPLE HURT ONE ANOTHER ON PURPOSE!
so then i wait for the good day or the next relaxing pill or bottle and say let us think about why people are MF, and digest on just why they cut you to the core could it be a bad child hood???
naw
not now i realize I can not change or predict what people will say or do next.
But the fact remains to stay in any type of goodness i need to say the evil that OTHER people have done to me and to others.
polly anna died , the rose colored glasses broke and im telling on every freaking buddy!
feel sad for me ?
ok your feelings belong to you and they aint changing mine . spend your life trying to figure out why a person screwed you over or someone you love, but sugar coat it and it will be fine .
not my freaking world in my world i get angry .
oh no ! to me being angry about the state of people and how we can and do hurt one another is worthy of speaking and not denining.
why?
because it is real life. to me . the fatasy world of which you speak is not one I want .
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doojable
T-Bone -It goes like this: when you're spiritual inner ear get infected you get spiritual virtigo and then you're spiritual equilibrium is off. Then you get spiritually dizzy and you fall......
Ri-i-i-i-i-i-ght....see the way to get someone to swallow some of this garbage is to make an analogy where there really is no analogy and add the work 'spiritual' to any other word that sounds good. Voila! Now you have a one-liner that everyone will quote and you'll look oh so spiritual.
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WordWolf
This sounds like it might come in handy.
Hello, Newcomer.
You do realize that if you stick around, you'll no longer be new and we'll have to
call you something else?
:)
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Rejoice
Mr Hameroni said:
"Things look rather different after you sit a spell.. maybe thats what he's afraid of..."
Wow...ain't that the truth!!!
Also, it's been said that we are being "judgemental" in the letter. We are not called to judge, but we are expected to DISCERN. Those of us who have "set a spell" are doing that.
God says to study to be quiet----so that we can disern.
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waterbuffalo
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Holy Smoke
Hey there, waterbuffalo. I did not mean to offend you. You inferred that I meant everyone posting here is wounded, and you inferred incorrectly that by using that term I was judging you and everyone else. I did not use the word judge in my comments, although I did warn about gossip and I don't apologize for that.
My original post was addressing the questions in the beginning of the thread about spiritual equilibrium and woundedness.
Sure, I'm wounded. Strict fundamental religious upbringing, sexual abuse, miscarriage, barrenness, divorce... I can tell you all about woundedness... and healing. So when I said wounded, I meant either those who in many of these posts were (self-admittedly) wounded back in the past or they perhaps still are wounded, which is apparent by the tone of one's words.
That being said, I appreciate your point about the usefulness of anonymous forums in order to share feelings and gain perspective and "undo" whatever you have to undo. By your own post, you confirm that there are many wounded coming here for help.
I was not in TWI, but I know all about it, because yes, I am pretty well-read and I know several people who were in TWI and have heard it all from various angles. But do you mean, that since I'm new and have acknowledged some woundedness expressed by many posters here, that I have to "set a spell" and cannot express my opinion? I thought that the moderator of this board told me I could express my opinion like you can.
So lighten up on me, okay? I guess I'll have to stick with Newcomer until I think of something more creative. Can I use that word, creative? (One ex-TWI person told me only God was creative. Oy vey!)
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waterbuffalo
Newcomer,
Again, welcome. As I stated at the beginning of my reply, I wasn't offened that you addressed posters on this board as wounded at all. I would guess that few of us could honestly say we we've received no wounds in this life. Most are pretty honest about that here.
As you've probably seen, we dialogue here. There is no set way to express your thoughts or your feelings. I am happy that you have expressed yours and have even recommended books that you have enjoyed reading. Again, you'll find most of us here are readers too and you may even learn about some good ones that others recommend.
I reserve the right to sound the alarm on twi and its offshoots, having had first hand experience in both and their toxic effects. That does not in anyway mean I've not forgiven individuals who merely acted in ways they were trained in in the twi cult. Same goes for the offshoots. I totally forgive any and all who did anything unhealthy or harmful in my life because I, too, harmed others. But, I have enough love for those who are still struggling thinking churches are evil and not seeing anyway out of twi or offshoots to tell them that FREEDOM is out there waiting for you and it is the life you've been waiting and looking for. The control, manipulation, secrecy, and plain downright deception in these groups is what I reserve the right to bring to light here in these forums.
Be creative by all means. I use that word all of the time. It is my right as an American to still freely express myself with my words. On second thought, that point may be debatable with all of the political correctness out there, but I digress. lol.
I've reread my post and please believe me, "set a spell" does not mean you shouldn't talk. It's simply an invitation to get to know us better.
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sprawled out
hi, newcomer. reading your reply, i guess i wasn't clear enough in my original question. if karen ann, and whoever else, is still "wounded" after years and years of commitment to a way of thinking that promises healing, then maybe it's time to consider a new way of thinking.
i've been away from the whole thing for almost 20 years. and i don't consider myself wounded IN THE LEAST. i'm just fine, thank you. (maybe it's because i don't spend so much of my time "considering myself." for all its lip service about service, there seems to be an awful lot in the twi/ces brand of christianity that's pretty self-centered.) of course, from their point of view, i just don't know how wounded i am. and from MY point of view, that's a fookin' trap if i ever saw one.
is that clearer?
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Steve Lortz
Regarding JAL's use of the word "woundedness" in his quote from the second question of this thread, if I'm remembering rightly, "woundedness" is a term of art in the Momentus "kill the victim before the victim kills you" world view.
Love,
Steve
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waterbuffalo
Thanks for clarifying that, Steve.
Great to see you, too.
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sprawled out
huh? "a term of art?" wuzzat mean?
i have no doubt that the term "woundedness" comes out of some wackjob belief system--a made-up psychobabble word. (it's so made up that when you search for it on google, google asks, "Did you mean boundedness?")
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Holy Smoke
Hey, sprawled. You're right, "woundedness" is not in the dictionary, but from the context, we can assume it means a state of being wounded.
I don't know what JAL was referring to, what KAG's "wound" was or is. I was abused at age 4, grew up memorizing Bible -- "committed to a way of thinking" as you said -- and never told anyone about that abuse until I was FORTY YEARS OLD! of course, by that time, that abuse had wormed its way into my core and due to my own denial and thinking I could just "be strong and get over it" and "hey, I'm not a victim' without ever grieving it, well, it was the devil's foothold. It was the root motivator of many stupid decisions and rationalizations.
Believe me, a "way of thinking" does not heal a person's heart and soul, no matter how long one does it. It is head knowledge, which I believe someone else on this board duly noted as "puffing up.' So maybe KAG was looking for her healing in ways that got twisted and turned into control and manipulation, which is based in insecurity.
I am purely speculating, and it doesn't make control freaks right. They are wrong. But I'm just saying our society has really become intolerant of wounded souls and those who need time and permission to grieve. Like people here are venting (translation: grieving) over old TWI wounds. Grieving here is certainly better than making someone else miserable.
Back in the old days, people wore black armbands for a year after a family member died. It was a sign of mourning and respect and people respected it. Now, we tell people to "get over it" in a few days and get back to work, what's the matter with you? Compassion has gone by the wayside. What's super-hard is to be compassionate to someone who is a total jackass and personally betrayed you. For those people, we can be compassionate yet still maintain our good sense and boundaries. I think a lot of folks here have learned that.
Vaya con Dios.
NC
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Ham
I think there is not one person on the planet that's not wounded..
or cut..
I think I may have started this..
my thoughts were, if JL and crew just sat down.. took time to reflect, maybe they'd find themselves- and maybe that was what they were afraid of.
The business of it all.. the "responsabilities".. the rituals to be performed, often are nothing more than a diversion.
They want to know that they know that they know, but they are afraid to discover themselves.. my opinion.
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sprawled out
newcomer--i've tried formulating a response this way and that way, and finally realized i've already said what i wanted to say. you're coming from some other place, it seems. let's just leave it at that.
keep 'em flyin'!
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pond
on a good day when everything is ging alright and no one is in trouble or hurt and life is fine.
I say "lets all pray, and think good thoughts together and analize the circumstance to understand we all get sad sometimes".
Then Real life happens and I cant aford the prescriptions so popular to help with such a dandy mood, and I realize.
crap life is difficult, those good days have turned into moments and LOTS of folks betray one another, and actualy you know what PEOPLE HURT ONE ANOTHER ON PURPOSE!
so then i wait for the good day or the next relaxing pill or bottle and say let us think about why people are MF, and digest on just why they cut you to the core could it be a bad child hood???
naw
not now i realize I can not change or predict what people will say or do next.
But the fact remains to stay in any type of goodness i need to say the evil that OTHER people have done to me and to others.
polly anna died , the rose colored glasses broke and im telling on every freaking buddy!
feel sad for me ?
ok your feelings belong to you and they aint changing mine . spend your life trying to figure out why a person screwed you over or someone you love, but sugar coat it and it will be fine .
not my freaking world in my world i get angry .
oh no ! to me being angry about the state of people and how we can and do hurt one another is worthy of speaking and not denining.
why?
because it is real life. to me . the fatasy world of which you speak is not one I want .
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