I read your letters and the agony you must have been put through is palatable.
To think a man, a spouse would take the words of a delusional person over his own wife is appalling. You must have felt so alone and battling every jot and tittle of your life. No one should live under that much scrutiny. It is not living, it is surviving, and that would be marginal.
I cannot tell you how desperate I felt with you, as I read your logical heart-felt words trying to persuade your husband, to see with his heart, that a broad brush of deception was coloring him.
I cannot imagine the lonely nights lying next to a man who was judging you and treating you as if you were possessed or minimally as a traitor to God. How empty those nights must have been for you -- and even though they were too silent I bet they were less toxic then what the day would bring.
I am sure you were not perfect as none of us are, but I ask that you do not pull yourself apart over this and let the taste of the poison linger. You can make yourself crazy with reruns and if only's. From what I read, you did the best you could as you watched your husband slip into quick sand convinced it was "solid ground."
It is pitiful what you endured. I am so sorry for each break in your heart. Know God loves you and is not judgmental. He never showed anyone spiders coming from your nose, but someone's own evil thinking permeated their dreams.
I hope by now you know the insanity, that crept into their lives, is not by anything you did and you should feel saved from an abyss of horror.
God is rich with love, my dear, and he will show you his heart. He can and will heal you. He loves you. He loves them as well and someday if and when they humbly seek the path back he will be waiting for them.
But I truly feel there will have to be an epiphany in time to wake these people up. Consider yourself blessed to have escaped.
Dot already said better than I what is on my heart about what happened. Thank you for standing up and saying "no, this is wrong." I think your insights will heal many, both in and out of STFI.
Great Post Dot. Many of us here on Grease Spot Cafe are with you 100% on it, especially me. Thanks for writing it for us. You are a lady of courage with a strong unyielding sense of justice. I only wish more people had the same. CES leaders should have apologized to Elizabeth for all the bad treatment that they gave her. I really have to draw a line in the sand on this. Until those that were involved in Elizabeth's smear tactics come clean and apologize I will never give them the respect that they seek.
I think Dot's post is extremely empathetic, but if the topic is, "Best Wishes to Elizabeth Lynn, loving thoughts to ease your trouble," I think its content will achieve the opposite. An inventory of miseries does not make for best wishes or loving thoughts, and it will only reprise, not ease, her "trouble."
Based only on the content of her letter, I doubt Elizabeth would find much of use to herself at Greasespot - just a hunch - but if she should stop by, she shouldn't be led to believe her only contribution is her testimony as victim. Greasespot is not (usually) a "pity party," but she might not know that from reading just a few posts.
Maybe she would want to get past her own story and on to... I dunno... helping others still trapped in the Graesers' CES/STFI psychodrama. I'm guessing she's a woman with extraordinary gifts, and would not waste precious time re-living an unfortunate chapter of her past when so many others need healing from their own.
This is not criticism of Dot, but a suggestion to one and all - if you find Elizabeth's story similar in any respect to a crucifiction and resurrection, focus on the resurrection, and not just for her benefit, but for yours. The inner strength she has found within herself can point the way to your own.
I think Dot's post is extremely empathetic, but if the topic is, "Best Wishes to Elizabeth Lynn, loving thoughts to ease your trouble," I think its content will achieve the opposite. An inventory of miseries does not make for best wishes or loving thoughts, and it will only reprise, not ease, her "trouble."
Based only on the content of her letter, I doubt Elizabeth would find much of use to herself at Greasespot - just a hunch - but if she should stop by, she shouldn't be led to believe her only contribution is her testimony as victim. Greasespot is not (usually) a "pity party," but she might not know that from reading just a few posts.
Maybe she would want to get past her own story and on to... I dunno... helping others still trapped in the Graesers' CES/STFI psychodrama. I'm guessing she's a woman with extraordinary gifts, and would not waste precious time re-living an unfortunate chapter of her past when so many others need healing from their own.
This is not criticism of Dot, but a suggestion to one and all - if you find Elizabeth's story similar in any respect to a crucifiction and resurrection, focus on the resurrection, and not just for her benefit, but for yours. The inner strength she has found within herself can point the way to your own.
satori
This is Richard.
Grieving is a personal process, of which this board knows pretty much nothing of how E has lived thru that after her divorce. And whether or not she is done is very personal as well. My own thoughts on life tragedies is that sometimes the grieving is never really over, a person may get to the place where they become functional again and yet still need to re-grieve and perhaps need support of God and friends from time to time, even decades later, perhaps at times like this when it is all brought up again.
Also possibly deciding to wade back in with CES and ex CES people is 100% a personal decision. May or may not be the right decision now, it might be right later, she may choose to never engage CES followers again. Some people can do it, some cannot or do not wish to do it.
Elizabeth
God's blessings on you as you continue to heal, and I hope these postings are a balm to your heart. I look forward to years of your good friendship with Chrispy and me. We all hope that this is the end of the insanity in the organization that hurt you so deeply.
May this process on this board lead to a renewal of many hearts in actually living the true principles of God's heart. May loving God and our neighbors be paramount in our actions every day. I think this begins with respecting one another as equals - no-one is "special" or higher than another and able to speak like the Wizard of Oz from behind the curtain but loudly projected on the screen. We are all just broken humans who need to be loved and desperately need to love others. As the song says Deep inside this armor the warrior is a child.
I am sorry to have to address this on your thread Elizabeth but I am so insulted I feel that I must.
Satori
I find your post completely out of sorts. If you read her letter you would find it filled with verbal struggles and tears. To have me validate her pain can be part of a healing process. "Loving thoughts to ease your trouble" Well, that was in my heart for her...
Seems what is in your heart for her is to criticize what I offered -- I suppose in your mind that is much more in compliance with the topic. (Not) Which I find sorely lacking in offering anything. You are groping like the rest of us to find words to say -- but in seeking your own words all you find is "I dunno" Then, to suggest the following, "This is not criticism of Dot, but a suggestion to one and all - if you find Elizabeth's story similar in any respect to a crucifixion and resurrection, focus on the resurrection, and not just for her benefit, but for yours. The inner strength she has found within herself can point the way to your own. "
Then you add "Maybe she would want to get past her own story and on to... I dunno... helping others still trapped in the Graesers' CES/STFI psychodrama. I'm guessing she's a woman with extraordinary gifts, and would not waste precious time re-living an unfortunate chapter of her past when so many others need healing from their own."
Maybe she does want to get past her own story but you are not offering that. Let me reply to you in kind, this is not a criticism of you Satori, but just something I noticed. Perhaps, if you were to merely OFFER what you think she needs such as:
My wishes to you are different:
You seem to be a strong woman and have much to offer. I believe God will use your gifts"
As opposed to trying to tell me, my heartfelt words do not apply, and preface your post with your disagreement with me. And anyone who felt similarly are also some how promoting a” pity party." First, it detracts from what I offered; next it focuses on you to have the magic words. Perhaps, you should just let people speak their hearts and you should speak yours.
If you want to focus on the "resurrection" then kindly do so. Your focus is on my words being somehow incomplete or somehow not in compliance with wishing her well as I did recap what I got from her letters. I wanted her to know she was heard. And if my hearing her, and the way I choose to love her, offends you, perhaps you should offer what is in your own HEART and leave what is in my heart alone. If you see it as a pity party then so-be-it, I felt and said it as an understanding of what she has been through.
You, on the other hand, used her thread to platform a criticism of me. It is like all the idiots out there who say "Don't feel that way..." They do not recognize what people feel, but rather want to travel passed it, without acknowledgement and tell her "I hope all is well." I don't believe all can be well until she is acknowledged for all she has been through.
My letter is to her, not to you.
Write your own heart felt words.
Satori - Feel free to write to her about the resurrection of her life, as you see it, but shame on you for the way you tried to lay it out here.
To take it from a page in your book, this is not a criticism but to (him and) one and all - if you wish to tone your personal letter to Elizabeth differently than I have, then just do it. The need for a negative comparison seems a distraction and an exercise in your own inability.
Perhaps Satori, you see a need for a different tone, I am not denying your feelings or opportunity to offer that here. But the way you presented it just seemed to be offensive to me and anyone who felt similarily.
In reviewing your post, let me reply in kind, this is in no way a criticism of Satori -- I did not find Elizabeth's story similar to a crucifixion and resurrection but rather a sweet helpless one caught in a bear trap in the winter woods. Who some how found the strength to gnaw off her own foot to escape a worse fate. I recognize the enormous loss and the pain that went into that decision. I also feel with time she will feel far better having escaped with some terrible wounds then having stayed.
Again borrowing a page from your book...Seeing things that way may also benefit you (us) if you can see what you have lost is so much less than that which you have gained. The inner strength she has found within herself can mesh, with the courage you had to find, to leave the winter woods yourself. As opposed to trying to diminish the tenderness and understanding others maybe posting. Feeling what comes to the surface of the souls posting to Elizabeth, may take us further as a group in healing, and understanding the traps the world has out there to snuff out the light of hope we (the human race) try to fan and keep glowing.
(Satori's comparison may apply to many who have read the letters, I am not telling him or you what to feel -- only declaring you HAVE the right to FEEL what you feel and my feelings differ from his -- I give him that, even though I feel he did not offer me the same courtesy)
Sorry to derail - but being as he really brought me into the heart of his post I felt it necessary.
In an effort to keep this about Elizabeth, if anyone else wants to tell me my letter was not what the Doctor ordered, feel free to PM me.
Elizabeth - My heart does bleed for you, this is not about my pain as was so callously suggested. Many of us have PAIN from TWI and CES. Just because there is mutual pain and I recognize yours -- does not decline my love and understanding of your pain.
Your letter was powerful and convincing. I hope it has the intended effect, to "awaken."
Though individuals have clearly sought to "victimize" you, it is clear to me that, though you've been cruelly hurt, you do not intend to be a victim. This is more than semantic hair-splitting. A victim would ask for "pity." You ask instead for truth. A victim would ask for compensation. You ask instead for reconciliation. A victim would ask for compromise. You ask instead for righteousness, which is to say, what is right. A victim would ask, "Think about me." You ask instead, "Think."
In fact, the letter is not about you at all, is it? It is about what is right and what is true, a "wake-up call" to those who have strayed, far and wide in some cases, but most of all to John.
John is a luckier man than he could ever imagine. I hope he sees that in time.
Now that I see it, I love Satori’s letter and perspective all though different than mine, I think it gives a broader view of what people get from your letters Elizabeth.
So, after I cry for you I think I would like to echo a bit of Satori’s enthusiasm for you. I can almost hear John Phillip Suza playing in the background and his words do make me want to rally behind you as a conqueror. Even though I understand how victimized you were. I think what he has written has a very healthy stirring tone to understanding an added depth to your communications.
IMO, his letter gives a great balance. Like the before and after picture in the gym commercials
So, in your virtual eye if you see a parade in your honor I would like to twirl the baton.
I was a victim in many respects, by a man who abused me and made others believe he was a godly husband.
it hurts. it really, really hurts. I wanted him to see the truth, embrace what was right, but he could not.
I was angry for a long time, confused, aghast. then I started to let it go.
once you start to let it go, you can turn around and look ahead.... maybe only over your shoulder at first. we all get there at our own pace. sometimes it takes many hands to help us keep our direction on the path. maybe this was what Paul was talking about when he said forgetting the things that are behind. you don't ever forget. you can't. but you stop remembering so much. then you start loving life again.
Elizabeth, I felt like you did when my husband chose the unwise, ungodly counsel of others over the reasoning words of his own wife.
Elizabeth, I don't know how God will do it, but you will have a truly blessed wonderful future. Just stay as sweet as you are and keep your relationship tight with God. Hugs :)
Elizabeth, I don't know if you will read any of these replies but I hope you do. First I applaud you for surviving the insanity you went through. Your letter was superb and I was awed by it. I am thankful you had the strength of God behind you as you were going through the whole situation. And I hope John kept the letter and will periodically read it. I hope in time he comes to grieve the loss of a wonderful woman of God. Grieving in the sense of learning. I am very saddened that John was not able to be a protector for you. I am glad you were able to come out of it whole, sane, sound and greater. God indeed is a gracious, miracle working God.
My prayers and my love go out to you, a beautiful sister in Christ. Thank you for the letter and for reaching out one last time to John.
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templelady
Elizabeth,
I don't know you
but I do know that you are daughter of Heavenly Father
Created by Him and Loved by Him
As such you are only accountable to Him for your behaviors
You are most certainly not required to deal with what you have been through and even for a moment believe that in any way shape or form it is "of God"
For the New Year I ask that Heavenly Father hold your wounded heart close and that you find peace in His loving arms
In the Name of His son Jesus Christ
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Dot Matrix
Elizabeth:
I do not know you, but I have read about you...
I read your letters and the agony you must have been put through is palatable.
To think a man, a spouse would take the words of a delusional person over his own wife is appalling. You must have felt so alone and battling every jot and tittle of your life. No one should live under that much scrutiny. It is not living, it is surviving, and that would be marginal.
I cannot tell you how desperate I felt with you, as I read your logical heart-felt words trying to persuade your husband, to see with his heart, that a broad brush of deception was coloring him.
I cannot imagine the lonely nights lying next to a man who was judging you and treating you as if you were possessed or minimally as a traitor to God. How empty those nights must have been for you -- and even though they were too silent I bet they were less toxic then what the day would bring.
I am sure you were not perfect as none of us are, but I ask that you do not pull yourself apart over this and let the taste of the poison linger. You can make yourself crazy with reruns and if only's. From what I read, you did the best you could as you watched your husband slip into quick sand convinced it was "solid ground."
It is pitiful what you endured. I am so sorry for each break in your heart. Know God loves you and is not judgmental. He never showed anyone spiders coming from your nose, but someone's own evil thinking permeated their dreams.
I hope by now you know the insanity, that crept into their lives, is not by anything you did and you should feel saved from an abyss of horror.
God is rich with love, my dear, and he will show you his heart. He can and will heal you. He loves you. He loves them as well and someday if and when they humbly seek the path back he will be waiting for them.
But I truly feel there will have to be an epiphany in time to wake these people up. Consider yourself blessed to have escaped.
My heart swells with tenderness toward you.
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DogLover
Well put, Dot Matrix, well put ... I agree, Elizabeth. Remember that God holds you in the palm of His hands tenderly at all times.
DogLover
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shazdancer
Dot already said better than I what is on my heart about what happened. Thank you for standing up and saying "no, this is wrong." I think your insights will heal many, both in and out of STFI.
Take care,
Shaz
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Mark Sanguinetti
Great Post Dot. Many of us here on Grease Spot Cafe are with you 100% on it, especially me. Thanks for writing it for us. You are a lady of courage with a strong unyielding sense of justice. I only wish more people had the same. CES leaders should have apologized to Elizabeth for all the bad treatment that they gave her. I really have to draw a line in the sand on this. Until those that were involved in Elizabeth's smear tactics come clean and apologize I will never give them the respect that they seek.
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Kit Sober
Dear Elizabeth,
Thankful for Dot and others putting into words the groans of my heart, and adding my hopeful prayers in with the rest.
Sincerely,
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satori001
I think Dot's post is extremely empathetic, but if the topic is, "Best Wishes to Elizabeth Lynn, loving thoughts to ease your trouble," I think its content will achieve the opposite. An inventory of miseries does not make for best wishes or loving thoughts, and it will only reprise, not ease, her "trouble."
Based only on the content of her letter, I doubt Elizabeth would find much of use to herself at Greasespot - just a hunch - but if she should stop by, she shouldn't be led to believe her only contribution is her testimony as victim. Greasespot is not (usually) a "pity party," but she might not know that from reading just a few posts.
Maybe she would want to get past her own story and on to... I dunno... helping others still trapped in the Graesers' CES/STFI psychodrama. I'm guessing she's a woman with extraordinary gifts, and would not waste precious time re-living an unfortunate chapter of her past when so many others need healing from their own.
This is not criticism of Dot, but a suggestion to one and all - if you find Elizabeth's story similar in any respect to a crucifiction and resurrection, focus on the resurrection, and not just for her benefit, but for yours. The inner strength she has found within herself can point the way to your own.
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richnchrispy
satori
This is Richard.
Grieving is a personal process, of which this board knows pretty much nothing of how E has lived thru that after her divorce. And whether or not she is done is very personal as well. My own thoughts on life tragedies is that sometimes the grieving is never really over, a person may get to the place where they become functional again and yet still need to re-grieve and perhaps need support of God and friends from time to time, even decades later, perhaps at times like this when it is all brought up again.
Also possibly deciding to wade back in with CES and ex CES people is 100% a personal decision. May or may not be the right decision now, it might be right later, she may choose to never engage CES followers again. Some people can do it, some cannot or do not wish to do it.
Elizabeth
God's blessings on you as you continue to heal, and I hope these postings are a balm to your heart. I look forward to years of your good friendship with Chrispy and me. We all hope that this is the end of the insanity in the organization that hurt you so deeply.
May this process on this board lead to a renewal of many hearts in actually living the true principles of God's heart. May loving God and our neighbors be paramount in our actions every day. I think this begins with respecting one another as equals - no-one is "special" or higher than another and able to speak like the Wizard of Oz from behind the curtain but loudly projected on the screen. We are all just broken humans who need to be loved and desperately need to love others. As the song says Deep inside this armor the warrior is a child.
Richard
Richard
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Dot Matrix
I am sorry to have to address this on your thread Elizabeth but I am so insulted I feel that I must.
Satori
I find your post completely out of sorts. If you read her letter you would find it filled with verbal struggles and tears. To have me validate her pain can be part of a healing process. "Loving thoughts to ease your trouble" Well, that was in my heart for her...
Seems what is in your heart for her is to criticize what I offered -- I suppose in your mind that is much more in compliance with the topic. (Not) Which I find sorely lacking in offering anything. You are groping like the rest of us to find words to say -- but in seeking your own words all you find is "I dunno" Then, to suggest the following, "This is not criticism of Dot, but a suggestion to one and all - if you find Elizabeth's story similar in any respect to a crucifixion and resurrection, focus on the resurrection, and not just for her benefit, but for yours. The inner strength she has found within herself can point the way to your own. "
Then you add "Maybe she would want to get past her own story and on to... I dunno... helping others still trapped in the Graesers' CES/STFI psychodrama. I'm guessing she's a woman with extraordinary gifts, and would not waste precious time re-living an unfortunate chapter of her past when so many others need healing from their own."
Maybe she does want to get past her own story but you are not offering that. Let me reply to you in kind, this is not a criticism of you Satori, but just something I noticed. Perhaps, if you were to merely OFFER what you think she needs such as:
My wishes to you are different:
You seem to be a strong woman and have much to offer. I believe God will use your gifts"
As opposed to trying to tell me, my heartfelt words do not apply, and preface your post with your disagreement with me. And anyone who felt similarly are also some how promoting a” pity party." First, it detracts from what I offered; next it focuses on you to have the magic words. Perhaps, you should just let people speak their hearts and you should speak yours.
If you want to focus on the "resurrection" then kindly do so. Your focus is on my words being somehow incomplete or somehow not in compliance with wishing her well as I did recap what I got from her letters. I wanted her to know she was heard. And if my hearing her, and the way I choose to love her, offends you, perhaps you should offer what is in your own HEART and leave what is in my heart alone. If you see it as a pity party then so-be-it, I felt and said it as an understanding of what she has been through.
You, on the other hand, used her thread to platform a criticism of me. It is like all the idiots out there who say "Don't feel that way..." They do not recognize what people feel, but rather want to travel passed it, without acknowledgement and tell her "I hope all is well." I don't believe all can be well until she is acknowledged for all she has been through.
My letter is to her, not to you.
Write your own heart felt words.
Satori - Feel free to write to her about the resurrection of her life, as you see it, but shame on you for the way you tried to lay it out here.
To take it from a page in your book, this is not a criticism but to (him and) one and all - if you wish to tone your personal letter to Elizabeth differently than I have, then just do it. The need for a negative comparison seems a distraction and an exercise in your own inability.
Perhaps Satori, you see a need for a different tone, I am not denying your feelings or opportunity to offer that here. But the way you presented it just seemed to be offensive to me and anyone who felt similarily.
In reviewing your post, let me reply in kind, this is in no way a criticism of Satori -- I did not find Elizabeth's story similar to a crucifixion and resurrection but rather a sweet helpless one caught in a bear trap in the winter woods. Who some how found the strength to gnaw off her own foot to escape a worse fate. I recognize the enormous loss and the pain that went into that decision. I also feel with time she will feel far better having escaped with some terrible wounds then having stayed.
Again borrowing a page from your book...Seeing things that way may also benefit you (us) if you can see what you have lost is so much less than that which you have gained. The inner strength she has found within herself can mesh, with the courage you had to find, to leave the winter woods yourself. As opposed to trying to diminish the tenderness and understanding others maybe posting. Feeling what comes to the surface of the souls posting to Elizabeth, may take us further as a group in healing, and understanding the traps the world has out there to snuff out the light of hope we (the human race) try to fan and keep glowing.
(Satori's comparison may apply to many who have read the letters, I am not telling him or you what to feel -- only declaring you HAVE the right to FEEL what you feel and my feelings differ from his -- I give him that, even though I feel he did not offer me the same courtesy)
Sorry to derail - but being as he really brought me into the heart of his post I felt it necessary.
In an effort to keep this about Elizabeth, if anyone else wants to tell me my letter was not what the Doctor ordered, feel free to PM me.
Elizabeth - My heart does bleed for you, this is not about my pain as was so callously suggested. Many of us have PAIN from TWI and CES. Just because there is mutual pain and I recognize yours -- does not decline my love and understanding of your pain.
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satori001
Dear Elizabeth,
Your letter was powerful and convincing. I hope it has the intended effect, to "awaken."
Though individuals have clearly sought to "victimize" you, it is clear to me that, though you've been cruelly hurt, you do not intend to be a victim. This is more than semantic hair-splitting. A victim would ask for "pity." You ask instead for truth. A victim would ask for compensation. You ask instead for reconciliation. A victim would ask for compromise. You ask instead for righteousness, which is to say, what is right. A victim would ask, "Think about me." You ask instead, "Think."
In fact, the letter is not about you at all, is it? It is about what is right and what is true, a "wake-up call" to those who have strayed, far and wide in some cases, but most of all to John.
John is a luckier man than he could ever imagine. I hope he sees that in time.
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Dot Matrix
Elizabeth
Now that I see it, I love Satori’s letter and perspective all though different than mine, I think it gives a broader view of what people get from your letters Elizabeth.
So, after I cry for you I think I would like to echo a bit of Satori’s enthusiasm for you. I can almost hear John Phillip Suza playing in the background and his words do make me want to rally behind you as a conqueror. Even though I understand how victimized you were. I think what he has written has a very healthy stirring tone to understanding an added depth to your communications.
IMO, his letter gives a great balance. Like the before and after picture in the gym commercials
So, in your virtual eye if you see a parade in your honor I would like to twirl the baton.
Thanks Satori
hugs to all...
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potato
I was a victim in many respects, by a man who abused me and made others believe he was a godly husband.
it hurts. it really, really hurts. I wanted him to see the truth, embrace what was right, but he could not.
I was angry for a long time, confused, aghast. then I started to let it go.
once you start to let it go, you can turn around and look ahead.... maybe only over your shoulder at first. we all get there at our own pace. sometimes it takes many hands to help us keep our direction on the path. maybe this was what Paul was talking about when he said forgetting the things that are behind. you don't ever forget. you can't. but you stop remembering so much. then you start loving life again.
Elizabeth, I felt like you did when my husband chose the unwise, ungodly counsel of others over the reasoning words of his own wife.
here's to looking ahead. God bless you.
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LornaDoone
Elizabeth, I don't know how God will do it, but you will have a truly blessed wonderful future. Just stay as sweet as you are and keep your relationship tight with God. Hugs :)
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Edi
My prayers and my love go out to you, a beautiful sister in Christ. Thank you for the letter and for reaching out one last time to John.
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