The Most Reverend G. Gordon Godfrey, are you getting a message for Raf?
"I am indeed!"
*steps down and places his hands over Raf*
That, of course, was the window-dressing.
Here we have another generic "prophecy" I pulled off the internet.
I added the holy trappings, and personalized the language slightly,
but the substance was ALL from the generic prediction.
"Amazing" how it SEEMS to fit, no?
Bet it would seem that way if 1/2 the posters here were told this applied to THEM.
"The LORD, He is showing me something-He is showing me your past.
Yes, you have always been a sensitive person, in tune with events around you.
You chose well for a career, didn't you?
When you were younger, you were different from other people that you knew.
No, you did NOT fit in.
You have always been a little on the outside of things.
Your intuition is strong. Yes, you have always been a bit sensitive to God's Will in your life.
You have occasionally dreamed of things before they happened, or at least had a strong sense of 'deja vu' under certain circumstances.
In fact, you YOURSELF might have the calling of an extrapersonal prophet!
You are also a caring and honest person, too much so at times. You've had difficulty in letting people get to know the real you. When you finally do let someone inside, you keep him or her close to you for a long time.
In fact, right this minute,
there is someone that you are close to that you are concerned about right now. Fear not.
You worry too much. You can best help this person by continuing to be a positive influence in their life.
Remain constant in prayer and remain ready to bless them.
God Almighty has SPOKEN!"
"Oh, and don't forget, I've prepared a DVD on hearing God's Will in your life. You can buy it
at the door when you leave."
The next-to-last paragraph is one of the more convincing things.
How many people here are "concerned" about someone "close to them"?
Right- EVERYONE!
So, the generic "pray and stand ready" SOUNDS specific, but it's like a Dr telling you to
get plenty of sleep and fluids- it's general good advice that doesn't hurt.
We ended with the sales pitch. Sooner or later, the "personal prophet's" "prophecies"
will lead to them getting money from the marks- either thru donations ("prayer offerings"),
sales, or some other form. Normally, it's said separately, but the connection is still there.
Again, it may feel familiar, if you've been asked for money in some way after getting a
How much for the video? Or do I have to buy a book to explain the video to me? Or does the video hawk the book?
Wait, I'm getting a vision!
I see a man in a t-shirt and black pants. He's surrounded by vampires and werewolves, and they're all laughing. Many of them have halos over their heads, but several others are crying. The man goes to the crying wolves and vampires, wipes their tears and turns them into halos!
Almighty God has spoken! He's saying something that sounds like carp, or harp, or tarp. It's a little fuzzy. Larp? Naah.
Now, let me go into more detail here.
Most charlatans will exercise their "prophetic ability" FACE TO FACE.
This allows them to use the hundreds of nonverbal cues people give off to
supplement their generic statements.
You've seen the generic statements-now we add more specific ones.
This is called a "cold read" or a "cold reading."
One stage magician (and Christian) explained this sort of thing when on a show
WITH a cold-reader (who fled when the stage magician was revealed and
after she was tricked into making a false "cold-read" on him.)
One woman asked about her daughter, in college.
He asked her a leading question about her social activity level-is she outgoing?
Now, either she WAS or she was NOT.
If she WAS, then the mother is concerned the daughter is partying and not
studying.
If she was NOT, then the mother is concerned the daughter is studying too HARD
and not taking any down-time and socializing.
So, then, based on her answer, he begins "prophesying".
That's how cold-reading works.
That's the USUAL method.
HOWEVER,
if the "personal prophet" can actually get PERSONAL DATA on the person they're reading
for, then they're SET. They can tailor the "prophecy" to tell all sorts of things the person
WANTS to hear, or DREADS HEARING.
This is called "HOT-READING."
Raf did that one here.
He knew a hobby of the person he was "reading for", and dressed it up in dramatic
"personal prophecy" imagery.
Now it looks like he's getting a message, when all he's done is a little research.
If you know PERSONALLY the person you're "reading for", you can easily figure out
what's on their mind, what concerns them, what they fear-
then you can compose a "personal prophecy" that directs them to act as you wish,
since it seems to be "personal", when all it did was utilize what a friend would know,
added holy trappings, and labelled it "of God",
and thus BEYOND QUESTION.
It seems we've seen this sort of thing mentioned in the letters.
Any friend COULD dress up advice this way, but only one lacking a conscience WOULD.
The Most Reverend is signalling me that you have a long, successful future as an
extrapersonal prophet. Or something.
Wait-he's signalling again. He's pointing to Belle.
Most Reverend, has God sent you a message for her?
"He has indeed!
Oh, Belle,
he is sending me a warning for you! I see betrayal!
People close to you have taken advantage of you!
Oh, dear Belle!
You have suffered for your basic honesty!
You have been offered opportunities that you have had offered to you in the past have had to be surrendered because you refused to take advantage of others!
You have refused the temptations of filthy lucre!
On the bright side is your hunger for knowledge.
You like to read books and articles to improve your mind.
In fact, if you're not already in some sort of personal service business, helping people, you should be.
You must be-I see you helping people in an office.
You have a deep, deep capacity for understanding people's problems and you can sympathize with them.
But you are firm when confronted with obstinacy or outright stupidity.
Your sense of justice is quite strong."
*breaks down crying*
I think we'll need to give MRR GGG a few minutes here.
And a glass of water.
Again,
I took a completely generic "prophecy" I pulled off the internet, and applied it to the next
person, who was Belle. I did NOT select for ones that I thought would fit-
I deliberately went with the order of the posters, in the order that I pulled the predictions
off different websites.
Then I dressed it up with lots of holy speech and physical drama.
Those who know Belle may think this sounds like her.
Which it might.
It also might apply to EVERYONE in the thread, and most people READING the thread.
It only SOUNDED specific to her.
If she WANTED to believe it was genuine, she would have walked off thinking that.
Of course, I made it clear in the first post that these would all be FALSE before we even
began. However, they may sound awfully familiar to those of you who supposedly
and someone wanted to know where to find "personal prophecy" in Scripture.
I direct you to "personal prophet" Zedekiah, son of Chenaanah.
He's in I Kings 22 and II Chronicles 18.
Here's the KJV on him in II Chronicles 18.
================
" 4And Jehoshaphat said unto the king of Israel, Enquire, I pray thee, at the word of the LORD to day.
5Therefore the king of Israel gathered together of prophets four hundred men, and said unto them, Shall we go to Ramothgilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And they said, Go up; for God will deliver it into the king's hand.
6But Jehoshaphat said, Is there not here a prophet of the LORD besides, that we might enquire of him?
7And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, There is yet one man, by whom we may enquire of the LORD: but I hate him; for he never prophesied good unto me, but always evil: the same is Micaiah the son of Imla. And Jehoshaphat said, Let not the king say so.
8And the king of Israel called for one of his officers, and said, Fetch quickly Micaiah the son of Imla.
9And the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat king of Judah sat either of them on his throne, clothed in their robes, and they sat in a void place at the entering in of the gate of Samaria; and all the prophets prophesied before them.
10And Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah had made him horns of iron, and said, Thus saith the LORD, With these thou shalt push Syria until they be consumed.
11And all the prophets prophesied so, saying, Go up to Ramothgilead, and prosper: for the LORD shall deliver it into the hand of the king.
12And the messenger that went to call Micaiah spake to him, saying, Behold, the words of the prophets declare good to the king with one assent; let thy word therefore, I pray thee, be like one of their's, and speak thou good.
13And Micaiah said, As the LORD liveth, even what my God saith, that will I speak.
14And when he was come to the king, the king said unto him, Micaiah, shall we go to Ramothgilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And he said, Go ye up, and prosper, and they shall be delivered into your hand.
15And the king said to him, How many times shall I adjure thee that thou say nothing but the truth to me in the name of the LORD?
16Then he said, I did see all Israel scattered upon the mountains, as sheep that have no shepherd: and the LORD said, These have no master; let them return therefore every man to his house in peace.
17And the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, Did I not tell thee that he would not prophesy good unto me, but evil?
18Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left.
19And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.
20Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?
21And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the Lord said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.
22Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.
23Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near, and smote Micaiah upon the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee?
==============
Let's look it over.
" 4And Jehoshaphat said unto the king of Israel, Enquire, I pray thee, at the word of the LORD to day.
5Therefore the king of Israel gathered together of prophets four hundred men, and said unto them, Shall we go to Ramothgilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And they said, Go up; for God will deliver it into the king's hand.
6But Jehoshaphat said, Is there not here a prophet of the LORD besides, that we might enquire of him?"
Wow, 400 "personal prophets", and not one of the LORD among them.
"7And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, There is yet one man, by whom we may enquire of the LORD: but I hate him; for he never prophesied good unto me, but always evil: the same is Micaiah the son of Imla. And Jehoshaphat said, Let not the king say so. "
Ohh, what a bad boy that Michaiah is! He's always speaking all those negatives! He must
never have learned that Godly communications are REQUIRED to be all cheerful and light,
never saying anything bad, never warning about problems, never exposing evil,
and never confronting evil.
" 8And the king of Israel called for one of his officers, and said, Fetch quickly Micaiah the son of Imla.
9And the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat king of Judah sat either of them on his throne, clothed in their robes, and they sat in a void place at the entering in of the gate of Samaria; and all the prophets prophesied before them. "
Wow, they got the full act.
" 10And Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah had made him horns of iron, and said, Thus saith the LORD, With these thou shalt push Syria until they be consumed."
Zedekiah really knows how to wow an audience. He's got flair and drama in play
while he delivers his personal prophecy.
" 11And all the prophets prophesied so, saying, Go up to Ramothgilead, and prosper: for the LORD shall deliver it into the hand of the king.
12And the messenger that went to call Micaiah spake to him, saying, Behold, the words of the prophets declare good to the king with one assent; let thy word therefore, I pray thee, be like one of their's, and speak thou good.
13And Micaiah said, As the LORD liveth, even what my God saith, that will I speak."
That Micaiah is NOT a team player. He also doesn't know about tailoring his message
to the audience like the 400 other guys.
" 14And when he was come to the king, the king said unto him, Micaiah, shall we go to Ramothgilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And he said, Go ye up, and prosper, and they shall be delivered into your hand.
15And the king said to him, How many times shall I adjure thee that thou say nothing but the truth to me in the name of the LORD?
16Then he said, I did see all Israel scattered upon the mountains, as sheep that have no shepherd: and the LORD said, These have no master; let them return therefore every man to his house in peace.
17And the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, Did I not tell thee that he would not prophesy good unto me, but evil? "
Real prophets risk their lives giving messages they know the people won't want, and accept they
are set at naught and despised for it. REAL prophets don't get cushy jobs.
" 18Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left.
19And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.
20Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?
21And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the Lord said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.
22Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee. "
So, we see there are 2 ways to be a personal prophet.
One is to speak words from one's own self and claim they are of God,
the other is to speak words from a lying spirit and claim they are of God.
" 23Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near, and smote Micaiah upon the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee? "
That Zedekiah knows how to keep his stage-act up. Even exposed, he's trying to discredit a REAL
from personal prophets and words from other-than-God.
Deuternomy 18:20-22.
(KJV)
" 20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."
For those of you who missed it, here it is in the NASB.
" 20But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.
21You may say in your heart, 'How will we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?'
22When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. "
This is very simple.
If a prophet speaks a prophecy, and ANY prophecy he speaks fails, he is a false prophet.
If 99.999% of his prophecies come true, and 1 in 100,000 fails, he is a false prophet.
What were they to do with false prophets?
They were to kill them a lot.
Thus, prophets whose prophecies "USUALLY" or "OFTEN" were accurate, but OCCASIONALLY
fail are false prophets and should be killed.
As we've all seen, even people trying to justify the utterances of the CES/STFI
"personal prophetess" have said she's not accurate 100% of the time,
which the Bible says makes her a FALSE prophet, and Israel was supposed
to kill those.
Fine, we don't kill them in the US. We don't even slap them in the face.
We can AT THE VERY LEAST follow GOD'S injunction and not respect them any more.
And I still want to know why their entire organization needs an anonymous outsider
like me to explain all this when they've had over a decade to work it out.
If I was a supporter of CES/STFI, I'd have some burning questions concerning
the management of the group, and just how well they really understand the Bible
I heard about this right after I got out of TWI - went to a meeting where JAL was teaching. The teaching did nothing to hit the mark, knowing what some of the issues of the people were who were in the room that night. It was very self-serving - lots of tangents - lots of "I" "I" "I" - "lookit me!" sorta stuff.
The night was capped with a racuos round of personal phophecy (I'll call it PP for short). Whoop-peee.
I remember wondering if you got a longer PP if you put more $$ in the basket that night. We left with no PP, thank you. It reminded me of a Tarot card reading and sounded as though it would be just as effective. It smacked of witchcraft to me but wasn't as kind as most wiccians I'd met.
Gee, they used to at least pray for your needs with you in the last cult I was in...
Anyhow...
Hubby sorta got into this group for a while but didn't subscribe to the PP thing. He says he even has some PP left on his answering machine a few times - wow - digital PP - you could save it and listen to it anytime you wanted.
Just think - PP on demand.
What would you ask for?
God - which toothpaste should I buy?
God - what school should I send my kids to?
God - what job should I take?
And there's SO MUCH ROOM for god to speak in you life - thru a man that god isn't speaking anymore - the man is.
I believe churches and groups that teach and practice this like CI and Vineyard use mainly new testament directives.
I Cor 14:22 ...prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
Obviously there are some fundamental differences between old testament Israel under the law and what is available in the new testament, which could account for why we're probably not called of God to stone believers now, although it is certainly a valid question from your post on false prophets.
There are false witnesses, false apostles, and false brethren in the new testament but not a lot about false prophets, except one in Acts named Bar-Jesus, who attempts to turn away Paul and Barnabus from teaching about Christ. You can read the account for a refresher on what happens with him.
Interestingly enough, they are on this journey based on the preceding phrases:
Acts 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. 3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. 4 So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.
One would probably ask, "how the did the 'holy ghost' say it?" Was it a "feeling" or a word of revelation that only the person going on the trip got, or was it a 'word' that was shared to the people being sent off?
We read the following account in Acts 21:9 that makes it sound like the prophetic as "PP" could have been common, and that it included specific personal instruction -- And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy. 10 And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus. 11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.
I would say that the following section also probably fits with the general scope. Peter was not strongly identified anywhere as a "prophet" but he certainly has secrets of Ananias' heart revealed to him, which he speaks out and Ananias does more than fall down and worship, but falls down dead.
Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, 2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
In TWI it was taught that prophecy from regular "Joe Believer" was something really vague like, "Turn neither to the left, nor to the right, but stay steadfast in My word, for I love you little children" but I believe most of the books on the topics of "PP" would focus on areas like the verses above, like, "and thus are the SECRETS of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth."
If that is taken as literally as it sounds, it would really take some serious 'secrets' for me to fall down on my face and report that "God is in you of a truth." Although this has actually happened to me before.
I do not think though in TWI that even the simple NOTION of some "Joe Believer" being able to walk up to a MOG and speak the "secrets of his heart" would have ever been taught or properly explored. I think a lot of the leadership would have objected to other, non-scriptural reasons, like a change in the power base.
As for the question of "who" should do the prophecying, usually in the PP teachings also verses like the above are referenced, "if ALL (in the church) prophecy..."
As for whether or not prophets need to be 100% correct in this time period I cannot say dogmatically from scripture, but this is the verse I always end up looking at - I Cor 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. The question would be what the 'judging' is for, and there are no consequences listed. There's also, "for now we know in part, and we prophecy in part" but that is not definitive on this topic.
It's interesting also that TWI and offshoots like CES usually don't consider it a "proper" believers meeting unless three people have spoken in tongues, yet what Paul seems to be saying is "don't speak in tongues in the church" because; 1 - people will think you're insane (that should have been good enough), 2 - no one knows when to say "amen" at the giving of thanks, 3 - and no one's understanding is edified. Paul is pretty hep on instructing them to do things in the church that edify the group, and therefore seems to conclude, but if you "must" speak in tongues, let it be by two or by three (maximum).
I'm not sure if your question was rhetorical, but the above sections are some that I've personally studied in depth to try and help me understand what I've personally experienced at some (limited) CES events but mainly from other churches.
10And Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah had made him horns of iron, and said, Thus saith the LORD, With these thou shalt push Syria until they be consumed.
Wordwolf- in the Companion Bible Bullinger said something to the effect ot "note the ambiguity of these kind of communications".
Took me a few minutes to get it..
but Zedekiah's "prophecy" would have been "fulfilled" either way the battle turned out..
"So, I introduce the Most Right Reverent G.Gordon Godfrey!"
Dear M.R.R. Godfrey,
Your Personal Prophecies appeal to me in a most sublime manner, but, being a discriminating ex-cultist, I must completely satisfy myself as to your bona fides before I subscribe to your Prophecy-a-Day ™ email service (motto: a Prophecy-a-Day will keep Satan away!).
that even a single error is enough to completely disqualify a prophet-
and CES/STFI would rather disqualify GOD ALMIGHTY than THEMSELVES.
That's why they say God can make mistakes and give incorrect prophecies.
It's an insidious, UNgodly, craven act to commit,
but, frankly, does that qualify as news now?
Why of course, WordWolf! It makes sense to blame God - afterall, He doesn't seem to defend himself. (I say "seem" with tongue firmly planted in cheek) And even if He does - they can always blame it on Satan and say that Ole' Splitfoot is trying to destroy their works for God - whom they've already emmasculated with their doctrine. They have manipulated the circumstances so that they are Gawd Almighty themselves.
So let's see if we got this right.....GOD makes mistakes, but the prophet is always right because he/she is just all so accurate all the time and is just a mouthpiece. (I need to go gargle with some lye after that statement.)
This SOOOOOOOOO reminds me of that controversial movie from the late eighties/ early nineties - The Last Temptation of Christ Most of the movie was stupid - but the real kicker was the last 5 or 10 minutes or so when Jesus (who, in an alternate storyline, lives because he prayed to get down from the cross, marries Mary Magdalene and lives happily ever after) confronts Paul as he is preaching in Jerusalem.
It went something like this:
Paul preaching about Jesus Christ being crucified and risen from the dead.
Jesus: Hey! Stop! I'm here. I never died.
Paul: Doesn't matter.
Jesus: Doesn't matter??!! Why not?!
Paul: Because this is what they want to hear. It doesn't matter what really happened to you. The prophecies need to be fulfilled no matter if its real or not - they need this.
So the wheels will turn - with or without God's sanction - and the only way it will be stopped is when people are fed up and finally see that they need to think for themselves. God is at work - but if folks are blind to His hand - then they are doomed to repeat this pattern over and over and over - ad nauseum
I have been involved in groups where there is personal prophecy going on. Done right, it is pretty powerful
stuff, and can be of considerble blessing and help to the recipient of the prophecy.
In any case, whatever is said has to connect with us and make sense to our spirit. If not, we just have to
discard it.
-CS
There is a big assumption hidden in the phrase "Done right." It implies a standard…some criteria that the one speaking a personal prophecy has to meet to qualify as authentically from God…It also seems like the validity of the prophecy is solely based on the perception of the recipient – is it helpful, does it have resonance, etc…
Whoever is judging the validity of it is using some set of standards to do so. And as Word Wolf pointed out – there is no scriptural support for personal prophesy…doctrinal support relies heavily on speculation, assumptions, personal opinion...much of their reasoning hits me as a wishful thinking.
Something about this discussion reminds me of all the technical details vpw blabs about in the Advanced Class – the ultimate "how-to" class on operating the manifestations. In my humble observation of miraculous instances in the Bible: God looms large in the forefront and stuff happens regardless of the know-how of all participants.
Swatratra might be a little more forthcoming if the victims, er I mean the fellowship participants signed a waiver acknowledging that the readings, ahem, the prophecies are for entertainment purposes only..
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WordWolf
That, of course, was the window-dressing.
Here we have another generic "prophecy" I pulled off the internet.
I added the holy trappings, and personalized the language slightly,
but the substance was ALL from the generic prediction.
"Amazing" how it SEEMS to fit, no?
Bet it would seem that way if 1/2 the posters here were told this applied to THEM.
The next-to-last paragraph is one of the more convincing things.
How many people here are "concerned" about someone "close to them"?
Right- EVERYONE!
So, the generic "pray and stand ready" SOUNDS specific, but it's like a Dr telling you to
get plenty of sleep and fluids- it's general good advice that doesn't hurt.
We ended with the sales pitch. Sooner or later, the "personal prophet's" "prophecies"
will lead to them getting money from the marks- either thru donations ("prayer offerings"),
sales, or some other form. Normally, it's said separately, but the connection is still there.
Again, it may feel familiar, if you've been asked for money in some way after getting a
"personal prophecy".
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WordWolf
Now, let me go into more detail here.
Most charlatans will exercise their "prophetic ability" FACE TO FACE.
This allows them to use the hundreds of nonverbal cues people give off to
supplement their generic statements.
You've seen the generic statements-now we add more specific ones.
This is called a "cold read" or a "cold reading."
One stage magician (and Christian) explained this sort of thing when on a show
WITH a cold-reader (who fled when the stage magician was revealed and
after she was tricked into making a false "cold-read" on him.)
One woman asked about her daughter, in college.
He asked her a leading question about her social activity level-is she outgoing?
Now, either she WAS or she was NOT.
If she WAS, then the mother is concerned the daughter is partying and not
studying.
If she was NOT, then the mother is concerned the daughter is studying too HARD
and not taking any down-time and socializing.
So, then, based on her answer, he begins "prophesying".
That's how cold-reading works.
That's the USUAL method.
HOWEVER,
if the "personal prophet" can actually get PERSONAL DATA on the person they're reading
for, then they're SET. They can tailor the "prophecy" to tell all sorts of things the person
WANTS to hear, or DREADS HEARING.
This is called "HOT-READING."
Raf did that one here.
He knew a hobby of the person he was "reading for", and dressed it up in dramatic
"personal prophecy" imagery.
Now it looks like he's getting a message, when all he's done is a little research.
If you know PERSONALLY the person you're "reading for", you can easily figure out
what's on their mind, what concerns them, what they fear-
then you can compose a "personal prophecy" that directs them to act as you wish,
since it seems to be "personal", when all it did was utilize what a friend would know,
added holy trappings, and labelled it "of God",
and thus BEYOND QUESTION.
It seems we've seen this sort of thing mentioned in the letters.
Any friend COULD dress up advice this way, but only one lacking a conscience WOULD.
And that's a "hot-read."
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WordWolf
This one should be obvious, given the context.
Someone posted a warning about supposed prophets.
So, IMMEDIATELY, the charlatan began prophecying "spin control."
"Oh, God has said that someone will tell you I'm making this up.
God said to ignore them and never doubt I'm speaking for them."
All of you ex-twi people should remember the tactic of silencing the opposition,
which is still a common practice among some ex-twi'ers,
even with the nasty qualifier twi gave, which is that if you're questioning
THEM, then you're questioning GOD ALMIGHTY and that's sinful.
This may sound VERY familiar.
ESPECIALLY to those of you CES/STFI'ers who are reading but not posting.
As Raf has pointed out, turning your advice, counsel and directives into
"the Voice of the Lord God Almighty" is silencing dissent.
You're saying that it's PERFECT advice, PERFECT counsel,
and it's fighting against God to even mull it over.
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WordWolf
Again,
I took a completely generic "prophecy" I pulled off the internet, and applied it to the next
person, who was Belle. I did NOT select for ones that I thought would fit-
I deliberately went with the order of the posters, in the order that I pulled the predictions
off different websites.
Then I dressed it up with lots of holy speech and physical drama.
Those who know Belle may think this sounds like her.
Which it might.
It also might apply to EVERYONE in the thread, and most people READING the thread.
It only SOUNDED specific to her.
If she WANTED to believe it was genuine, she would have walked off thinking that.
Of course, I made it clear in the first post that these would all be FALSE before we even
began. However, they may sound awfully familiar to those of you who supposedly
have heard genuine ones.
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Belle
Do you mean I shouldn't have rejected those offers of filthy lucre?? :(
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WordWolf
Again, we see the principles at work here.
Who here ISN'T having "some sort of difficulty with a family member"?
That could mean a kid with a simple tantrum or not eating his greens,
it could mean shouting matches with a sibling, marital distress or a simple argument,
a cousin with a stealing or drinking problem, whatever.
Just about any relationship with any relative could be squeezed to fit this.
Who doesn't have a "health issue" concerning them?
The youngest posters here-teens and 20s- MIGHT not, but certainly those over their
40s each think about SOMETHING with their health.
Could be a cold, a bruised shin, an allergy, hypertension, obesity, or any of hundreds
of other things.
Who isn't thinking about money and needs to relax about it? Only the very wealthy-
and they think about it EVEN MORE, mostly. This comment could apply to just about
any money issue at any level.
Career changes? Whose career couldn't use at least a SMALL improvement?
Oh, and the last part was especially insidious- which means you've probably heard
it at least once.
People LIKE to hear how great they are. Of course everyone WANTS to believe they're
growing and maturing. Even if it's completely false. They will WANT to believe a
"personal prophesy" that says they are, and WILL believe it if they can.
Who would dare to argue with "God is happy with you"?
Who would WANT to?
Personally,
I was surprised to find the references in the one I randomly selected for you.
It sounded like it COULD have happened, certainly, moreso for you than some people
when it got to that.
I suppose most people have had SOME sort of offer at SOME sort of level at SOME point
in their life.
I think, however, it illustrates how "personal prophecy" can so specifically hit the
"there's know way she could have known that-it must be real"
aspects, but still have been 100% balloon juice.
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WordWolf
We started off with the general "how could he know this?" stuff.
Who's NOT at least a little concerned with becoming more like their parents?
Who doesn't have SOME issue about their clothing, of SOME kind?
But the next part is ESPECIALLY nasty, ESPECIALLY insidious,
and rates special attention.
NOW we see something the "personal prophecy" people might recognize directly.
It's JUST as generic as the rest-some possible car problem-
but it's dressed up completely.
We have the special mystical imagery, and the interpretation.
The net result is that it looks like a special message.
It's just a lie with a lot of setup.
What if there's not even a LITTLE car problem?
Then, obviously, the caution has prevented it-disaster averted!
The charlatan wins with this one no matter what!
Again, I pulled this from generic predictions, and just dressed it up
to sound just like these "prophetic" messages.
Is it crystal-clear NOW to everyone just how easy it is-
with a little work-
to make up all sorts of "personal prophecies" and make them sound
real and holy?
We can make up more examples if necessary, but I hope it's clear
to just about everyone now, if not before.
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doojable
This reminds me of the "personal astrology" reading that I got in High School.
We all got the same thing after filling out a questionaire - and we all said how it described us to a T.
I still want some more vodka so that I too can become a prophet......
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WordWolf
Oh,
and someone wanted to know where to find "personal prophecy" in Scripture.
I direct you to "personal prophet" Zedekiah, son of Chenaanah.
He's in I Kings 22 and II Chronicles 18.
Here's the KJV on him in II Chronicles 18.
================
" 4And Jehoshaphat said unto the king of Israel, Enquire, I pray thee, at the word of the LORD to day.
5Therefore the king of Israel gathered together of prophets four hundred men, and said unto them, Shall we go to Ramothgilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And they said, Go up; for God will deliver it into the king's hand.
6But Jehoshaphat said, Is there not here a prophet of the LORD besides, that we might enquire of him?
7And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, There is yet one man, by whom we may enquire of the LORD: but I hate him; for he never prophesied good unto me, but always evil: the same is Micaiah the son of Imla. And Jehoshaphat said, Let not the king say so.
8And the king of Israel called for one of his officers, and said, Fetch quickly Micaiah the son of Imla.
9And the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat king of Judah sat either of them on his throne, clothed in their robes, and they sat in a void place at the entering in of the gate of Samaria; and all the prophets prophesied before them.
10And Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah had made him horns of iron, and said, Thus saith the LORD, With these thou shalt push Syria until they be consumed.
11And all the prophets prophesied so, saying, Go up to Ramothgilead, and prosper: for the LORD shall deliver it into the hand of the king.
12And the messenger that went to call Micaiah spake to him, saying, Behold, the words of the prophets declare good to the king with one assent; let thy word therefore, I pray thee, be like one of their's, and speak thou good.
13And Micaiah said, As the LORD liveth, even what my God saith, that will I speak.
14And when he was come to the king, the king said unto him, Micaiah, shall we go to Ramothgilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And he said, Go ye up, and prosper, and they shall be delivered into your hand.
15And the king said to him, How many times shall I adjure thee that thou say nothing but the truth to me in the name of the LORD?
16Then he said, I did see all Israel scattered upon the mountains, as sheep that have no shepherd: and the LORD said, These have no master; let them return therefore every man to his house in peace.
17And the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, Did I not tell thee that he would not prophesy good unto me, but evil?
18Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left.
19And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.
20Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?
21And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the Lord said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.
22Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.
23Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near, and smote Micaiah upon the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee?
==============
Let's look it over.
" 4And Jehoshaphat said unto the king of Israel, Enquire, I pray thee, at the word of the LORD to day.
5Therefore the king of Israel gathered together of prophets four hundred men, and said unto them, Shall we go to Ramothgilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And they said, Go up; for God will deliver it into the king's hand.
6But Jehoshaphat said, Is there not here a prophet of the LORD besides, that we might enquire of him?"
Wow, 400 "personal prophets", and not one of the LORD among them.
"7And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, There is yet one man, by whom we may enquire of the LORD: but I hate him; for he never prophesied good unto me, but always evil: the same is Micaiah the son of Imla. And Jehoshaphat said, Let not the king say so. "
Ohh, what a bad boy that Michaiah is! He's always speaking all those negatives! He must
never have learned that Godly communications are REQUIRED to be all cheerful and light,
never saying anything bad, never warning about problems, never exposing evil,
and never confronting evil.
" 8And the king of Israel called for one of his officers, and said, Fetch quickly Micaiah the son of Imla.
9And the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat king of Judah sat either of them on his throne, clothed in their robes, and they sat in a void place at the entering in of the gate of Samaria; and all the prophets prophesied before them. "
Wow, they got the full act.
" 10And Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah had made him horns of iron, and said, Thus saith the LORD, With these thou shalt push Syria until they be consumed."
Zedekiah really knows how to wow an audience. He's got flair and drama in play
while he delivers his personal prophecy.
" 11And all the prophets prophesied so, saying, Go up to Ramothgilead, and prosper: for the LORD shall deliver it into the hand of the king.
12And the messenger that went to call Micaiah spake to him, saying, Behold, the words of the prophets declare good to the king with one assent; let thy word therefore, I pray thee, be like one of their's, and speak thou good.
13And Micaiah said, As the LORD liveth, even what my God saith, that will I speak."
That Micaiah is NOT a team player. He also doesn't know about tailoring his message
to the audience like the 400 other guys.
" 14And when he was come to the king, the king said unto him, Micaiah, shall we go to Ramothgilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And he said, Go ye up, and prosper, and they shall be delivered into your hand.
15And the king said to him, How many times shall I adjure thee that thou say nothing but the truth to me in the name of the LORD?
16Then he said, I did see all Israel scattered upon the mountains, as sheep that have no shepherd: and the LORD said, These have no master; let them return therefore every man to his house in peace.
17And the king of Israel said to Jehoshaphat, Did I not tell thee that he would not prophesy good unto me, but evil? "
Real prophets risk their lives giving messages they know the people won't want, and accept they
are set at naught and despised for it. REAL prophets don't get cushy jobs.
" 18Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left.
19And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.
20Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?
21And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the Lord said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.
22Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee. "
So, we see there are 2 ways to be a personal prophet.
One is to speak words from one's own self and claim they are of God,
the other is to speak words from a lying spirit and claim they are of God.
" 23Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near, and smote Micaiah upon the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee? "
That Zedekiah knows how to keep his stage-act up. Even exposed, he's trying to discredit a REAL
prophet and claim he HIMSELF speaks the truth.
========================
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WordWolf
As someone else pointed out,
God gave a very simple standard-
and a very simple consequence-
for telling TRUE prophets and words from God,
from personal prophets and words from other-than-God.
Deuternomy 18:20-22.
(KJV)
" 20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."
For those of you who missed it, here it is in the NASB.
" 20But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.
21You may say in your heart, 'How will we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?'
22When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him. "
This is very simple.
If a prophet speaks a prophecy, and ANY prophecy he speaks fails, he is a false prophet.
If 99.999% of his prophecies come true, and 1 in 100,000 fails, he is a false prophet.
What were they to do with false prophets?
They were to kill them a lot.
Thus, prophets whose prophecies "USUALLY" or "OFTEN" were accurate, but OCCASIONALLY
fail are false prophets and should be killed.
As we've all seen, even people trying to justify the utterances of the CES/STFI
"personal prophetess" have said she's not accurate 100% of the time,
which the Bible says makes her a FALSE prophet, and Israel was supposed
to kill those.
Fine, we don't kill them in the US. We don't even slap them in the face.
We can AT THE VERY LEAST follow GOD'S injunction and not respect them any more.
And I still want to know why their entire organization needs an anonymous outsider
like me to explain all this when they've had over a decade to work it out.
If I was a supporter of CES/STFI, I'd have some burning questions concerning
the management of the group, and just how well they really understand the Bible
if they could make mistakes of this magnitude.
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ChasUFarley
Well done!
I heard about this right after I got out of TWI - went to a meeting where JAL was teaching. The teaching did nothing to hit the mark, knowing what some of the issues of the people were who were in the room that night. It was very self-serving - lots of tangents - lots of "I" "I" "I" - "lookit me!" sorta stuff.
The night was capped with a racuos round of personal phophecy (I'll call it PP for short). Whoop-peee.
I remember wondering if you got a longer PP if you put more $$ in the basket that night. We left with no PP, thank you. It reminded me of a Tarot card reading and sounded as though it would be just as effective. It smacked of witchcraft to me but wasn't as kind as most wiccians I'd met.
Gee, they used to at least pray for your needs with you in the last cult I was in...
Anyhow...
Hubby sorta got into this group for a while but didn't subscribe to the PP thing. He says he even has some PP left on his answering machine a few times - wow - digital PP - you could save it and listen to it anytime you wanted.
Just think - PP on demand.
What would you ask for?
God - which toothpaste should I buy?
God - what school should I send my kids to?
God - what job should I take?
And there's SO MUCH ROOM for god to speak in you life - thru a man that god isn't speaking anymore - the man is.
And he's fulla more than PP!
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WordWolf
Well, I'm waiting.
We have here a thread which is not dedicated to just insults or badmouthing.
It has provided entertainment, demonstrations, and Scripture.
It's also had a direct indictment of "personal prophecy" as claimed by
CES/STFI.
I'm still waiting.
Can anyone from CES/STFI offer a reasonable response DEFENDING this
so-called "personal prophecy" CES/STFI practices?
From what we've seen, it's easy to fake, and blatantly counter-Scriptural.
Can someone offer even a reasonable ATTEMPT to demonstrate otherwise?
I'd like to hear the other side of the story if there IS an other side.
As it stands, it looks like the answers here are the truth and CES/STFI
is hiding and hoping the answers will be silenced, and people won't read
them, or will forget them.
Is there any kind of answer to the charges in this thread?
An answer with more substance than "buy the book", "hear the tape"
or "don't read this thread"?
C'mon, ONE of you has got to know something...
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ChasUFarley
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1broken1
I believe churches and groups that teach and practice this like CI and Vineyard use mainly new testament directives.
I Cor 14:22 ...prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
Obviously there are some fundamental differences between old testament Israel under the law and what is available in the new testament, which could account for why we're probably not called of God to stone believers now, although it is certainly a valid question from your post on false prophets.
There are false witnesses, false apostles, and false brethren in the new testament but not a lot about false prophets, except one in Acts named Bar-Jesus, who attempts to turn away Paul and Barnabus from teaching about Christ. You can read the account for a refresher on what happens with him.
Interestingly enough, they are on this journey based on the preceding phrases:
Acts 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. 3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. 4 So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.
One would probably ask, "how the did the 'holy ghost' say it?" Was it a "feeling" or a word of revelation that only the person going on the trip got, or was it a 'word' that was shared to the people being sent off?
We read the following account in Acts 21:9 that makes it sound like the prophetic as "PP" could have been common, and that it included specific personal instruction -- And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy. 10 And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus. 11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.
I would say that the following section also probably fits with the general scope. Peter was not strongly identified anywhere as a "prophet" but he certainly has secrets of Ananias' heart revealed to him, which he speaks out and Ananias does more than fall down and worship, but falls down dead.
Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, 2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
In TWI it was taught that prophecy from regular "Joe Believer" was something really vague like, "Turn neither to the left, nor to the right, but stay steadfast in My word, for I love you little children" but I believe most of the books on the topics of "PP" would focus on areas like the verses above, like, "and thus are the SECRETS of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth."
If that is taken as literally as it sounds, it would really take some serious 'secrets' for me to fall down on my face and report that "God is in you of a truth." Although this has actually happened to me before.
I do not think though in TWI that even the simple NOTION of some "Joe Believer" being able to walk up to a MOG and speak the "secrets of his heart" would have ever been taught or properly explored. I think a lot of the leadership would have objected to other, non-scriptural reasons, like a change in the power base.
As for the question of "who" should do the prophecying, usually in the PP teachings also verses like the above are referenced, "if ALL (in the church) prophecy..."
As for whether or not prophets need to be 100% correct in this time period I cannot say dogmatically from scripture, but this is the verse I always end up looking at - I Cor 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. The question would be what the 'judging' is for, and there are no consequences listed. There's also, "for now we know in part, and we prophecy in part" but that is not definitive on this topic.
It's interesting also that TWI and offshoots like CES usually don't consider it a "proper" believers meeting unless three people have spoken in tongues, yet what Paul seems to be saying is "don't speak in tongues in the church" because; 1 - people will think you're insane (that should have been good enough), 2 - no one knows when to say "amen" at the giving of thanks, 3 - and no one's understanding is edified. Paul is pretty hep on instructing them to do things in the church that edify the group, and therefore seems to conclude, but if you "must" speak in tongues, let it be by two or by three (maximum).
I'm not sure if your question was rhetorical, but the above sections are some that I've personally studied in depth to try and help me understand what I've personally experienced at some (limited) CES events but mainly from other churches.
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Ham
Wordwolf- in the Companion Bible Bullinger said something to the effect ot "note the ambiguity of these kind of communications".
Took me a few minutes to get it..
but Zedekiah's "prophecy" would have been "fulfilled" either way the battle turned out..
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WordWolf
1broken1,
my question was NOT rhetorical.
It was an open challenge for CES/STFI to attempt to support their doctrine from
Scripture in sight of their financial supporters,
once its Scriptural accuracy was directly challenged.
Your answer is the most I expect to get, since they're hoping this will all
blow over, and they're pretending they didn't mean to post messages here.
The major point is still unaddressed-
that even a single error is enough to completely disqualify a prophet-
and CES/STFI would rather disqualify GOD ALMIGHTY than THEMSELVES.
That's why they say God can make mistakes and give incorrect prophecies.
It's an insidious, UNgodly, craven act to commit,
but, frankly, does that qualify as news now?
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Kevlar2000
"So, I introduce the Most Right Reverent G.Gordon Godfrey!"
Dear M.R.R. Godfrey,
Your Personal Prophecies appeal to me in a most sublime manner, but, being a discriminating ex-cultist, I must completely satisfy myself as to your bona fides before I subscribe to your Prophecy-a-Day ™ email service (motto: a Prophecy-a-Day will keep Satan away!).
So....
How much can you leg-press?
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Belle
Right Reverend Gordy,
I believe we have a new person who could benefit from a personal prophecy:
It's worked before!
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doojable
Why of course, WordWolf! It makes sense to blame God - afterall, He doesn't seem to defend himself. (I say "seem" with tongue firmly planted in cheek) And even if He does - they can always blame it on Satan and say that Ole' Splitfoot is trying to destroy their works for God - whom they've already emmasculated with their doctrine. They have manipulated the circumstances so that they are Gawd Almighty themselves.
So let's see if we got this right.....GOD makes mistakes, but the prophet is always right because he/she is just all so accurate all the time and is just a mouthpiece. (I need to go gargle with some lye after that statement.)
This SOOOOOOOOO reminds me of that controversial movie from the late eighties/ early nineties - The Last Temptation of Christ Most of the movie was stupid - but the real kicker was the last 5 or 10 minutes or so when Jesus (who, in an alternate storyline, lives because he prayed to get down from the cross, marries Mary Magdalene and lives happily ever after) confronts Paul as he is preaching in Jerusalem.
It went something like this:
Paul preaching about Jesus Christ being crucified and risen from the dead.
Jesus: Hey! Stop! I'm here. I never died.
Paul: Doesn't matter.
Jesus: Doesn't matter??!! Why not?!
Paul: Because this is what they want to hear. It doesn't matter what really happened to you. The prophecies need to be fulfilled no matter if its real or not - they need this.
So the wheels will turn - with or without God's sanction - and the only way it will be stopped is when people are fed up and finally see that they need to think for themselves. God is at work - but if folks are blind to His hand - then they are doomed to repeat this pattern over and over and over - ad nauseum
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WordWolf
For those who missed it the first time, I thought I'd bring this one back.
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caribousam
hey wordwolf,
I have been involved in groups where there is personal prophecy going on. Done right, it is pretty powerful
stuff, and can be of considerble blessing and help to the recipient of the prophecy.
In any case, whatever is said has to connect with us and make sense to our spirit. If not, we just have to
discard it.
-CS
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T-Bone
There is a big assumption hidden in the phrase "Done right." It implies a standard…some criteria that the one speaking a personal prophecy has to meet to qualify as authentically from God…It also seems like the validity of the prophecy is solely based on the perception of the recipient – is it helpful, does it have resonance, etc…
Whoever is judging the validity of it is using some set of standards to do so. And as Word Wolf pointed out – there is no scriptural support for personal prophesy…doctrinal support relies heavily on speculation, assumptions, personal opinion...much of their reasoning hits me as a wishful thinking.
Something about this discussion reminds me of all the technical details vpw blabs about in the Advanced Class – the ultimate "how-to" class on operating the manifestations. In my humble observation of miraculous instances in the Bible: God looms large in the forefront and stuff happens regardless of the know-how of all participants.
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doojable
Okay... I have become the new home for Swattrata. I have assistants who have had my class,
but they are not nearly as reliable as I am.
For a mere $19.99 you can have a year of personal prophecies! (The class is $200.00 but you have to sign a non-compete contract. ;))
Any takers?
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Ham
Swatratra might be a little more forthcoming if the victims, er I mean the fellowship participants signed a waiver acknowledging that the readings, ahem, the prophecies are for entertainment purposes only..
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