Sounds to me like someone in MG camp would like us to shut up, eh?
Well, the Word tells us not to be ignorant of the wolves in sheeps clothing and it sounds to me like that is exactly who is running CES. Sounding the alarm is a godly thing, given the circumstances - a word fitly spoken, so to speak.
BTW, I am still waiting for someone to show me, chapter and verse, where the Bible documents Prophetic Councils or a Prophetic Advisory Committee or for that matter, a committee who is supposed to sort through numerous prophesies to try to determine which are correct and which are error
Actually, I do recall some basis for something along those lines. I'm sure it's in their letter, so I can look it up quickly.
Okay, thanks Raf. I saw a bunch of scriptural references to old testament prophets and how to determine the true from the false. But I have seen nothing regarding a council of prophets, or a prophetic advisory commitee.
My recollection and understanding of prophets was that they were individuals (not groups). In fact, I can only thing of one documented record where a prophet had an "associate" and that is Elija and Elisha. I can think of absolutely no instance where there was a council who spent time sorting through numerous prophesies trying to determine which were true and which were false. Well, I can, but in every instance they were practitioners of idolaty and were NOT working or speaking for God.
29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.
That's I Cor. 14, for those who don't remember.
So, let's see, two or three prophets should speak (which assumes there will be more than that). The others (other what? I think other prophets sounds reasonable, but it could just be referring to other Christians in the room) weigh carefully what is said.
Sounds to me, however, like these folks are going through the motions. Based on the fruit being exhibited, including the destruction of a marriage (that's alleged), endless meddling in each other's personal affairs (acknowledged) and the near dissolution of a church (observed), their prophecies consist no more of words from God than they do words from Stephen King.
In fact, I think they're getting more from Stephen King than the King of Kings.
So, let's see, two or three prophets should speak (which assumes there will be more than that). The others (other what? I think other prophets sounds reasonable, but it could just be referring to other Christians in the room) weigh carefully what is said.
Sounds to me, however, like these folks are going through the motions. Based on the fruit being exhibited, including the destruction of a marriage (that's alleged), endless meddling in each other's personal affairs (acknowledged) and the near dissolution of a church (observed), their prophecies consist no more of words from God than they do words from Stephen King.
In fact, I think they're getting more from Stephen King than the King of Kings.
Thanks Raf. Interesting that is is a reproof Espistle. Interesting that part of the reproof is about the fact that they ALL wanted to be prophets, they ALL had something to say.
What is even more interesting however, is that they completely leave out the context, which is "therefore if the whole church is assembled together" not "wherefore if the prophetic advisory committee is assembled together" or not "wherefore when you have a dream, write it down and send it the the prophetic advisory committee".
Also, it says, let them speak by two or three, not by 5s and 10s.
It goes one to say that the purpose/fruit is to cause one who is unlearned or unbelieving to fall down on his face and worship god. Seems to me the fruit of CES is to slander and lead people away from God
Sorry, I am still not buying what CES is selling as personal prophesy.
Nor should you. It's a farce, an open invitation to personal manipulation and abuse. Why invite into your lives what you worked so hard to free yourself from?
Speaking of which, justpassingthrough must really like the word "vomit." A related word showed up in the unsolicited pm she sent to me, too.
I promised not to share the contents, but I never said anything about sharing the fact that she sent me one.
Apparently the topic of personal prophesy came up here about a year and a half ago.
Also, I can't help but wonder if CES didn't go with this whole personal prophesy business after they saw how much money and attention the GateKeepers were getting from it. Marketing at its finest. :blink:
Yeah- and I have NEVER, EVER, EVER seen this as a result of prophecy in ANY of the organizations.
Never.
That's why I think "prophecy on demand" may a flawed concept.
But somebody just HAS to pick it up, polish if off.. "Well, it didn't work for them, lets try it another way..."
Sure they do, Hammeroni, because religion is a big money making business. I seem to recall in one of the documents Captain Crunch posted, that CES was getting roughly $60,000 a MONTH from their followers. That's a lotta doe rae me!
Hell, my whole family could live comfortably for a year off what they are given in one month!!!!!
Umm, as a non-profit board member, I can say that $60,000 a month is NOT a lot of money. It's $720,000 a year. Considering the costs involved of running a national/international group, well, let's just say it's not poverty, but it's not a fortune either.
Umm, as a non-profit board member, I can say that $60,000 a month is NOT a lot of money. It's $720,000 a year. Considering the costs involved of running a national/international group, well, let's just say it's not poverty, but it's not a fortune either.
It's relative, Raf. It depends on your overhead. It is not like CES is handing out money to the needy, or to science, etc. I understand they do have some giveaways, but they are by no means a non-profit charity either.
If I were running a non-profit out of my home, for instance (and I am not saying that CES is operated out of a home), even if I were giving a way free magazines and tapes, $720,000 would buy me some damned nice clothing!
The worst part of it all, I think- the seething rage is directed not to the critics, but to their own flock to stay in line, to stay the course.. all the while the ship has big enough holes in it to drive a mac truck through.
You finally have made it clear that you are not defending JAL. But your post is still unclear.
I have a question, who around here is feeding on drama that a trouble making out of fellowship crybaby can gain entrance here?
Is the crybaby JAL, or someone else?
First of all, The Word of God states very clearly how to determine if one is in the center of God's Will.
If it were really this clear, we would not have so many religious denominations.
I could care less who did what to who.
Shame on you. Why enter into this discussion if you do not care? Did you read Elizabeth Lynn's letter?
You are all off the mark, and all of you should be ashamed that I have to write this, but God says we are to speak a Word fitly spoken so here it is: Thus saith the Lord: ... (1Cr 13:1-13 DBY)
We all know this passage. Who are you to judge that we are not doing this in love? You cannot use you plural if you do not know us. With only 6 posts on this forum, me thinks you protesteth too much.
Use the Word of God as the standard for Truth and go through those vomitorium, gangrenous, venomous letters from Rev Lynn, and sir, you should be ashamed of yourself, you know better.
There is only one letter from John Lynn. Are you talking about the other documents. I assume "sir" is JAL. As I said before, you must be post clearly what you are saying, if you want to be understood.
It is far more needful to be loving than to be right. And this did not concern most of these folks so all you did was stir up the pot some more. Take some advice from me: Shut up. And to all those who read this, please remember the Word you were taught and walk in love, walk in light and walk wise.
Take your own advice. It is far more needful to be loving than to be right. Who exactly are you telling to shut up?
You are all off the mark, and all of you should be ashamed that I have to write this, but God says we are to speak a Word fitly spoken so here it is: Thus saith the Lord:
If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels....
Justpassingthrough,
You prefaced your quoting of the 1 Corinthians passage by writing, “Thus saith the Lord.” Immediately before that you wrote, “God says we are to speak a Word fitly spoken so here it is.”
It is clear your post involves a claim that you are issuing a fitly-spoken message related to the goings on at this forum concerning STFI. All Scripture is spirated (breathed out) by God, but quoting Scripture does not in itself give your application of Scripture, your opinions and insights about situations, or your judgments and demands scriptural authority. Just about everyone around here should be aware of biblical indications of unbelievers and even the devil quoting and/or citing Scripture.
I am wondering, due to the manner in which you delivered your demands, if you deem yourself:
1. a prophet/prophetess;
2. a bearer of a prophetic message.
So you will have some idea of where I’m coming from: I’m Trinitarian, Calvinistic, quasi-presuppositional, middle-aged, skeptical about Pentecostal/Charismatic ministries, and pretty well past the point where it’s likely I’ll be intimidated by someone authoritatively posturing themselves as a “prophet” or an “apostle.”
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Abigail
Sounds to me like someone in MG camp would like us to shut up, eh?
Well, the Word tells us not to be ignorant of the wolves in sheeps clothing and it sounds to me like that is exactly who is running CES. Sounding the alarm is a godly thing, given the circumstances - a word fitly spoken, so to speak.
BTW, I am still waiting for someone to show me, chapter and verse, where the Bible documents Prophetic Councils or a Prophetic Advisory Committee or for that matter, a committee who is supposed to sort through numerous prophesies to try to determine which are correct and which are error
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Raf
Actually, I do recall some basis for something along those lines. I'm sure it's in their letter, so I can look it up quickly.
It's not in their letter. I'll look it up later.
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Abigail
Okay, thanks Raf. I saw a bunch of scriptural references to old testament prophets and how to determine the true from the false. But I have seen nothing regarding a council of prophets, or a prophetic advisory commitee.
My recollection and understanding of prophets was that they were individuals (not groups). In fact, I can only thing of one documented record where a prophet had an "associate" and that is Elija and Elisha. I can think of absolutely no instance where there was a council who spent time sorting through numerous prophesies trying to determine which were true and which were false. Well, I can, but in every instance they were practitioners of idolaty and were NOT working or speaking for God.
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Raf
It IS in their letter. I just missed it:
That's I Cor. 14, for those who don't remember.
So, let's see, two or three prophets should speak (which assumes there will be more than that). The others (other what? I think other prophets sounds reasonable, but it could just be referring to other Christians in the room) weigh carefully what is said.
Sounds to me, however, like these folks are going through the motions. Based on the fruit being exhibited, including the destruction of a marriage (that's alleged), endless meddling in each other's personal affairs (acknowledged) and the near dissolution of a church (observed), their prophecies consist no more of words from God than they do words from Stephen King.
In fact, I think they're getting more from Stephen King than the King of Kings.
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Ham
That kind of rage can't exactly be good for ones health, you'd think..
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Abigail
Thanks Raf. Interesting that is is a reproof Espistle. Interesting that part of the reproof is about the fact that they ALL wanted to be prophets, they ALL had something to say.
What is even more interesting however, is that they completely leave out the context, which is "therefore if the whole church is assembled together" not "wherefore if the prophetic advisory committee is assembled together" or not "wherefore when you have a dream, write it down and send it the the prophetic advisory committee".
Also, it says, let them speak by two or three, not by 5s and 10s.
It goes one to say that the purpose/fruit is to cause one who is unlearned or unbelieving to fall down on his face and worship god. Seems to me the fruit of CES is to slander and lead people away from God
Sorry, I am still not buying what CES is selling as personal prophesy.
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Raf
Nor should you. It's a farce, an open invitation to personal manipulation and abuse. Why invite into your lives what you worked so hard to free yourself from?
Speaking of which, justpassingthrough must really like the word "vomit." A related word showed up in the unsolicited pm she sent to me, too.
I promised not to share the contents, but I never said anything about sharing the fact that she sent me one.
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Abigail
Some of you might also find THIS DISCUSSION interesting.
Apparently the topic of personal prophesy came up here about a year and a half ago.
Also, I can't help but wonder if CES didn't go with this whole personal prophesy business after they saw how much money and attention the GateKeepers were getting from it. Marketing at its finest. :blink:
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Ham
Yeah- and I have NEVER, EVER, EVER seen this as a result of prophecy in ANY of the organizations.
Never.
That's why I think "prophecy on demand" may a flawed concept.
But somebody just HAS to pick it up, polish if off.. "Well, it didn't work for them, lets try it another way..."
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Abigail
Sure they do, Hammeroni, because religion is a big money making business. I seem to recall in one of the documents Captain Crunch posted, that CES was getting roughly $60,000 a MONTH from their followers. That's a lotta doe rae me!
Hell, my whole family could live comfortably for a year off what they are given in one month!!!!!
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Ham
$60,000 a month?
hmm. I wonder what's coming in after this little fiasco..
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Raf
Umm, as a non-profit board member, I can say that $60,000 a month is NOT a lot of money. It's $720,000 a year. Considering the costs involved of running a national/international group, well, let's just say it's not poverty, but it's not a fortune either.
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Abigail
It's relative, Raf. It depends on your overhead. It is not like CES is handing out money to the needy, or to science, etc. I understand they do have some giveaways, but they are by no means a non-profit charity either.
If I were running a non-profit out of my home, for instance (and I am not saying that CES is operated out of a home), even if I were giving a way free magazines and tapes, $720,000 would buy me some damned nice clothing!
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Ham
but as to JL's prophecy nonsense..
I know the old proverb- housewife doesn't say all cakes are bad because she happened to burn ONE.
But how many rotten cakes are they gonna bake before they figure the recipe is bad to begin with?
How many more failed prophecies, churches cut in splinters for this nonsense?
When the prophecies don't happen, the "unbelievers" roll in laughter..
and those who run this prophetic nonsense are driven to seething rage.
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Ham
Yep.
:)
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Ham
The worst part of it all, I think- the seething rage is directed not to the critics, but to their own flock to stay in line, to stay the course.. all the while the ship has big enough holes in it to drive a mac truck through.
The excuses, the coercion, the threats..
the emotional blackmail..
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richnchrispy
This is Chrispy!
Passing Through-
You finally have made it clear that you are not defending JAL. But your post is still unclear.
Is the crybaby JAL, or someone else? If it were really this clear, we would not have so many religious denominations.Shame on you. Why enter into this discussion if you do not care? Did you read Elizabeth Lynn's letter? We all know this passage. Who are you to judge that we are not doing this in love? You cannot use you plural if you do not know us. With only 6 posts on this forum, me thinks you protesteth too much.There is only one letter from John Lynn. Are you talking about the other documents. I assume "sir" is JAL. As I said before, you must be post clearly what you are saying, if you want to be understood.Take your own advice. It is far more needful to be loving than to be right. Who exactly are you telling to shut up?Link to comment
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Raf
She did ask me to keep it private.
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Abigail
If I may, I got to thinking about what it might feel like to be in JustPassing's shoes right now. The way I see it, there are two possibilities:
1) he/she is committed to CES and is very hurt by all of this, and feels her ministry is under attack
or
2) he/she has read all of this and is now starting to question what she was taught, which can be an even more frightening process.
So maybe, we could all step back and relax. Start over again.
I know I can come on strong sometimes, even when I don't mean to.
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Cynic
Justpassingthrough,
You prefaced your quoting of the 1 Corinthians passage by writing, “Thus saith the Lord.” Immediately before that you wrote, “God says we are to speak a Word fitly spoken so here it is.”
It is clear your post involves a claim that you are issuing a fitly-spoken message related to the goings on at this forum concerning STFI. All Scripture is spirated (breathed out) by God, but quoting Scripture does not in itself give your application of Scripture, your opinions and insights about situations, or your judgments and demands scriptural authority. Just about everyone around here should be aware of biblical indications of unbelievers and even the devil quoting and/or citing Scripture.
I am wondering, due to the manner in which you delivered your demands, if you deem yourself:
1. a prophet/prophetess;
2. a bearer of a prophetic message.
So you will have some idea of where I’m coming from: I’m Trinitarian, Calvinistic, quasi-presuppositional, middle-aged, skeptical about Pentecostal/Charismatic ministries, and pretty well past the point where it’s likely I’ll be intimidated by someone authoritatively posturing themselves as a “prophet” or an “apostle.”
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rascal
Good points Abby.
Hi Justapassingthrough, my name is Cathy, Welcome to grease spot.
I am sorry that you are hurting or maybe even scared because of the turmoil that is being experienced in your ministry.
Please understand that we are not the villains and evil doers that you may have been led to believe, nor are we worthy of your scorn and condemnation.
We are you.
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Abigail
thanks you guys, you truly are wonderful.
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oldiesman
aw shucks, thank you. :P
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Abigail
Yeah, you too Oldies. I may disagree with you alot, but that doesn't make you evil incarnate in my eyes.
Okay - group hug - lol lol
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