My post wasn't a rebuttal/retort of any of your posts in any way, but an illustrational example expanding and agreeing of what you said thus:
"Agreed, it's not the whole story.
"The Titanic struck an iceberg on its maiden voyage and sank to the bottom of the Atlantic in April 1912" isn't the whole story either, but it still tells you quite a bit."
Now you see why people could never win under the 'leadership' of these people who held these beliefs.
PRAISE GOD THEIR BELIEFS ARE OUT IN THE OPEN!
CESers...I was one of you. This is what I found out I was supporting. Is this the ground you thought you were planting in?
First, they tell you something pathetic...I mean,... 'prophetic'...
Let's say (surprise) it's not very complimentary
If you agree, then you've got Problem A.
If you disagree, you've still got Problem A (because the 'Lord' said so, dummy), AND.....
patronizing nod
...you've also got Problem B!
Lack of humility...unwillingness to submit...combative spirit...anger issue....ad nauseum
There IS N-O WAY TO WIN.
There is N-O WAY TO GET OUT!
IT N-E-V-E-R ENDS!
Oh, you can submit to Program 1 that the 'prophet' says will help you with Problem A, which of course requires continual submission to the 'prophet' (who--trust us, we love you-- has your best interests at heart) but God forbid you falter under the microscope because the 'Lord' will no doubt have something 'prophetic' to say to that also......which saddles you with Problem C, poor dear, and if you dare to question that , you buy the label of Problem D which requires Program 2......and if you fight us there we will tell the 'faith community' that you are part of the 'demonic assault on us to shut down the prophet's voice' and to M&A you.......but!..but!...even if you somehow get through this all.....we will nonetheless undermine you tby planting seeds of doubt about you in the 'faith community' (we'll want to ask them to pray for you, of course)........and we will keep record of this..........so we can lovingly remind you of it .....should you choose to question us in the future.......
I can hardly type!!!!!
Hey, Joeoday, where did you go?
You wrote.....I remember in The W.y that they exercised a lot of control and authority over people. My perspective is there is a big difference between the two organizations
Anyone out there call what you've seen here something close to exercising 'control and authority'?
It's pure IDOLATRY, as Duc says.
....but these people are better than the last people I was in idolatry to....
It's legalism.....it's Phariseeism....it lives on fear....it has caused such evil that it's more than I can type right now, as I think of ALL the wedding vows and ALL the people and the families that have been used as fodder in the fire of this ungodliness WHICH WENT UNCHECKED and LARGELY UNKNOWN throughout the CES 'faith community' -----until now.
Can I have a BIG HALLELUJAH for Capn Crunch and GreaseSpot please??????
These lies are a DISGRACE to our Savior who is the perfect, loving, grace-filled, merciful, compassionate Head of the Body, as Raf so aptly wrote.
And how they DEVOUR the Saints!
I love these people and I abhor what they have done because they believe lies like these....
I'm new to reading this (although not new to GreaseSpot), and setting aside the middle school he said/she said nature of much of it, I propose the following for consideration ... this was shared with me by someone else, and I will in turn share it in hopes it may clear things up:
Whenever any group of men and women, such as a Board of Trustees or a Board of Directors, come between God and His Son and the members in particular in a vertical hierarchy, such as we all experienced in the Way Ministry, and which exists in all tax-exempt ministries (by law), SOONER OR LATER the ministry will fail and fall because the organizational structure itself is flawed. It is of man's origin, not God's. It may take years, as it has with CES/Spirit and Truth, etc. and it may happen with well-meaning people (such as CFF, for example), but IT WILL HAPPEN. All the name-calling and particulars in this instance are clouded by the issue of whether personal prophecy is, or is not, of God ... but that is only the smoke screen ... what is or is not of God in the grand scheme of things is the structure of the "ministry" itself.
The members in particular in the body of Christ in the LOCAL CHURCH are the great checks and balances God set in place. Each person has a voice ... not just the Board of Directors.
I have started working my way through the very lengthy "clergy report". Holy carp, talk about conflicts of interest - MG and his wife are part of the Clergy Board too!
They write that they want to understand what "The Lord" has spoken to them, and not just find support for their position. When I read that, God gave me a prophetic word. He said, "The check is in the mail and I won't . . . ." Well, you get the picture. :blink:
And how interesting that out of the 9 who make up this clergy group, the 4 with the minority view couldn't make the meeting!
How convenient too, that the clergy could find no biblical reason to take the position that certain fellow clergy members, MG & KG, were "unsafe". Sounds like the same logic the BOD in TWI must have used in justifying why they never asked LCM to step down, despite knowing of his extra-marital activities. Afterall, he was the MOG!
Do you wanna see the root of all this evil? It's right there in John's letter. It's something Wierwille taught him. All of us who were involved with TWI fell for it too, to one extent or another.
"...the reason I remain committed to Spirit and Truth Fellowship International is because I can find no one else with the 'package' we have to offer, and I know the true heart with which we present it..."
John writes that he knows his true heart, and the true hearts of the other leaders of CES.
Yet the Word of God declares, "The heart is deceitful above all things. and desperately wicked, who can know it? I the Lord search the heart. I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings." Jeremiah 17:9&10
That's why Hebrews 4:12 says, "The word of God is... ...the discerner [critic] of the thought and intents of the heart."
Anyone who makes the thoughts and intents of his own heart the critic of God's Word is deluding himself.
I've got plenty more to write, but not before I get a good night's sleep.
never was interested in CES, STF or any other offshoot because to my way thinking they were trying to put "new wine" into an "old wineskin' with the results as we we are seeing
Sad
Sad because many many people will be hurt
hurt the way they were when TWI collapsed or some other religious group let them down
that is what is sad
not who sits in what position of authority but what all this wrangling does to the people who are spiritually in an already fragile place
Then after he went on to tell all the ills of it and made a
new and improved version.
HA! Depends on how you define improved I suppose. In reading the various documents that have been posted here, it almost sounds to me like CES has the potential to be even worse than TWI was under Martindale's rein. They have taken "revelation" and "spiritual suspicion" to totally new heights!
I find it interesting that Gary and Karen were reproved for keeping their marriage private. I guess not all of them are complete idiots! Good for them for refusing to let the "clergy" and "prophets" intrude. And if the prophets are so great, why didn't God tell them about Gary and Karen's marriage? Maybe they simply didn't need to know, in which case there is no need for reproof now, is there? Or maybe they are simply false prophets? Wolves in sheeps clothing?
And gee I can't imagine why somone would be anxious and suspicious about allowing the prophets to prophesy about them, can you? Perhpas Karen learned from what happened to Elizabeth? No, that couldn't be.
Do any of you see how incredibly illogical, hypocritcal, and just plain old insane all of this is?
How convenient too, that the only "prophetic source" indicating Mark needed to step down was from Tier 3 and therefore less than credible. Someone from outside the inner circle is in trouble now!
I am simply flabbergasted by what I am reading. I feel like I have stepped into a "Lord of the Rings" movie. None of this has anything to do with God, it is all about power - who gets to be in charge!
I know my criticsms probably sound harsh to those CESers who are still following this personal prophesy path, but really my harshness is meant for those who have led you down this path and not so much for those who follow. I know those oustide of TWI thought the path I was following looked pretty insane too, though I did not.
The boundaries into your personal life, your space, your head, your walk with God, are generally moved gradually. So gradually you are barely even aware that it is happening. I don't fault you for that, I've been there.
But, I pray that this insanity coming out in the open like it has, will help you step off this path. I pray that you get off this path before your boundaries and your relationship with God is pushed even further. I especially pray for the healing heart and spirit for those of you who have been twice bitten, for those of you who went from TWI to CES.
...the reason I remain committed to Spirit and Truth Fellowship International is because I can find no one else with the 'package' we have to offer, and I know the true heart with which we present it...
And....here is another way to read JAL's statement:
...the reason I remain committed to Spirit and Truth Fellowship International is because I can find no one else with the 'package' we have to offer, and I know the true heart with which we present it...
Notice......no mention of God or being lead/guided/called to help others
But.........."the package" is the best deal going.
Same song and dance, different band playing [to know all the answers].
I have a question for those who follow the doctrine of personal prophesy, can any of you document in the Bible where there was a "Council of Prophets"?
Also, Biblically speaking, how many instances of prophesy deal solely with and indivdual's life v how many instances of prophsey deal with issues pertaining to the group of followers as a whole? Because my understanding of the Bible is that the majority of the time, the prophet was speaking to the group as a whole, and in a signficantly smaller number of instances, did the prophet reprove the individual. Yet with the CES council of prophets, it seems that the majority of the time their prophesies are specific to an individual and rarely are they specific to the group as a whole.
The imagery of KAG as a flaming minister with the sword coming out of her mouth, and thus compared to Christ as he is described in Revelation when he returns - well, I think that's going just a bit too far - in fact, its insane.
Thus, if you disagree with M & KA, you have gone against God and his son.
I guess she truly has become like a "god."
It seems to me God has pulled the plug on this ministry.
The sad thing is, to them, this seems normal - another crisis - its the adversary attacking us. The strife, false prophets, the drama, the inane longwinded letters - I feel like I'm watching a bunch of 8th graders trying to figure out what to do.
They will never figure it out because Christ is not their head.
They are running around like chickens with their heads cut off.
Great point Skyrider. It brings to mind a section of scripture, "I will exhalt my throne above the stars of God. I will be like the most High." (Isaiah 14:12-15) At least he isn't making a pretense of being led by God in peddling his "package.' I'll give him credit for that.
Also, when John said in his letter that KA has "spoken prophetically into my life" for many years, from my understanding of how CES operates this is you have to give people permission to speak into your life. Then you exhibit humility by taking heed to their words. Again, the "us" vs. "them" mentality. You feel compelled to prove you're indeed extwi by setting up a priesthood to run your group.
There is nothing in the Bible that states only the people in your clique can steer you off a wrong track or onto a right one. DogLover made this point very well. The members of the BODY all can quote scripture, speak prophetically (with or without permission), dream dreams, see visions, and tell a brother or sister in the Lord what they think about the way their church is being run. Shoot, I can turn on the TV set and "get a word" from a TV preacher whom I've never met and apply that to my life--have done it many times.
And what about being spirituallly mature enough to make decisions about your own life and marriage? That's why we all took PFAL, wasn't it? So we could understand the Bible for ourselves? You don't need someone to "speak into your life" to know one of your main jobs as a husband is to love and protect your wife, do you? Well, apparently no one in John's little clique was speaking those words. My point here is John, you have surrounded yourself for years with only certain people. What about the wealth of wisdom out there resident in the rest of the Body of Christ? Just about anyone with any common sense could see being led by this little coven was wrong.
Who said if we don't learn from the mistakes in history we are bound to repeat them? It's clear the CES brood is still, as many pointed out, just doing the Way thing and will continue to do so as long as people, as someone said, with itching ears, feel they need this priesthood to interpret the Bible for them with these tapes and books they peddle (so they can understand the Bible the right way, don'tchaknow).
A lifelong Spanishcitizen, Santayana was raised and educated in the United States, invariably wrote in English, and is considered an American man of letters. He is perhaps best known for the oft-quoted remark, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it," from Reason in Common Sense, the first volume of his The Life of Reason
Or within the parameters of how to live your life, just read my signature.
There is nothing in the Bible that states only the people in your clique can steer you off a wrong track or onto a right one. DogLover made this point very well. The members of the BODY all can quote scripture, speak prophetically (with or without permission), dream dreams, see visions, and tell a brother or sister in the Lord what they think about the way their church is being run. Shoot, I can turn on the TV set and "get a word" from a TV preacher whom I've never met and apply that to my life--have done it many times.
And what about being spirituallly mature enough to make decisions about your own life and marriage? That's why we all took PFAL, wasn't it? So we could understand the Bible for ourselves? You don't need someone to "speak into your life"...
Abso-damn-lutely...!!
This CES-hierarchy thingy is JUST LIKE the twi-thingy.........wanting to LORD OVER God's heritage. It's pride running wild. It's in the devil's ballpark. It's........well, you get my drift.
I signed the green card......TO BETTER RUN MY LIFE (with God at the center).
Who in the heck would "sign on" for a Prophetic Council to manage one's life...??
And....here is another way to read JAL's statement:
...the reason I remain committed to Spirit and Truth Fellowship International is because I can find no one else with the 'package' we have to offer, and I know the true heart with which we present it...
Notice......no mention of God or being lead/guided/called to help others
But.........."the package" is the best deal going.
Same song and dance, different band playing [to know all the answers].
Sky look at the title to this thread A letter from John Lynn. One would assume that when writing a letter that it is common to use first person singular - used to represent the speaker or writer. This is exactly the cr*p that John was talking about in not dialoguing here. Nothing of real substance lets just pick at every word . It is an I for god's sake give it a rest if that's the best you can come up with. "Lets see Oh he said I how can I spin that to make me look like I have seen some great revelation in his words Let me expound it to you.." No hypocrisy there
God bless you and greetings in the wonderful name of Jesus Christ!
I have a question, who around here is feeding on drama that a trouble making out of fellowship crybaby can gain entrance here?
First of all, The Word of God states very clearly how to determine if one is in the center of God's Will.
1. Is it loving?
2. Is it kind?
3. Is is unselfish with concern for another?
4. Is it true according to God's Word?
5. Is it right according to God's Word?
I could care less who did what to who. You are all off the mark, and all of you should be ashamed that I have to write this, but God says we are to speak a Word fitly spoken so here it is: Thus saith the Lord:
If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And if I shall dole out all my goods in food, and if I deliver up my body that I may be burned, but have not love, I profit nothing. Love has long patience, is kind; love is not emulous [of others]; love is not insolent and rash, is not puffed up, does not behave in an unseemly manner, does not seek what is its own, is not quickly provoked, does not impute evil, does not rejoice at iniquity but rejoices with the truth, bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails; but whether prophecies, they shall be done away; or tongues, they shall cease; or knowledge, it shall be done away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part: but when that which is perfect has come, that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I reasoned as a child; when I became a man, I had done with what belonged to the child. For we see now through a dim window obscurely, but then face to face; now I know partially, but then I shall know according as I also have been known. And now abide faith, hope, love; these three things; and the greater of these [is] love. (1Cr 13:1-13 DBY)
Use the Word of God as the standard for Truth and go through those vomitorium, gangrenous, venomous letters from Rev Lynn, and sir, you should be ashamed of yourself, you know better. It is far more needful to be loving than to be right. And this did not concern most of these folks so all you did was stir up the pot some more. Take some advice from me: Shut up. And to all those who read this, please remember the Word you were taught and walk in love, walk in light and walk wise.
Any questions or concerns please feel free to email me at doulee888@yahoo.com.
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GarthP2000
Raf,
My post wasn't a rebuttal/retort of any of your posts in any way, but an illustrational example expanding and agreeing of what you said thus:
"Agreed, it's not the whole story.
"The Titanic struck an iceberg on its maiden voyage and sank to the bottom of the Atlantic in April 1912" isn't the whole story either, but it still tells you quite a bit."
Hope this clears that up.
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therebutforgrace
Now you see why people could never win under the 'leadership' of these people who held these beliefs.
PRAISE GOD THEIR BELIEFS ARE OUT IN THE OPEN!
CESers...I was one of you. This is what I found out I was supporting. Is this the ground you thought you were planting in?
First, they tell you something pathetic...I mean,... 'prophetic'...
Let's say (surprise) it's not very complimentary
If you agree, then you've got Problem A.
If you disagree, you've still got Problem A (because the 'Lord' said so, dummy), AND.....
patronizing nod
...you've also got Problem B!
Lack of humility...unwillingness to submit...combative spirit...anger issue....ad nauseum
There IS N-O WAY TO WIN.
There is N-O WAY TO GET OUT!
IT N-E-V-E-R ENDS!
Oh, you can submit to Program 1 that the 'prophet' says will help you with Problem A, which of course requires continual submission to the 'prophet' (who--trust us, we love you-- has your best interests at heart) but God forbid you falter under the microscope because the 'Lord' will no doubt have something 'prophetic' to say to that also......which saddles you with Problem C, poor dear, and if you dare to question that , you buy the label of Problem D which requires Program 2......and if you fight us there we will tell the 'faith community' that you are part of the 'demonic assault on us to shut down the prophet's voice' and to M&A you.......but!..but!...even if you somehow get through this all.....we will nonetheless undermine you tby planting seeds of doubt about you in the 'faith community' (we'll want to ask them to pray for you, of course)........and we will keep record of this..........so we can lovingly remind you of it .....should you choose to question us in the future.......
I can hardly type!!!!!
Hey, Joeoday, where did you go?
You wrote.....I remember in The W.y that they exercised a lot of control and authority over people. My perspective is there is a big difference between the two organizations
Anyone out there call what you've seen here something close to exercising 'control and authority'?
It's pure IDOLATRY, as Duc says.
....but these people are better than the last people I was in idolatry to....
It's legalism.....it's Phariseeism....it lives on fear....it has caused such evil that it's more than I can type right now, as I think of ALL the wedding vows and ALL the people and the families that have been used as fodder in the fire of this ungodliness WHICH WENT UNCHECKED and LARGELY UNKNOWN throughout the CES 'faith community' -----until now.
These lies are a DISGRACE to our Savior who is the perfect, loving, grace-filled, merciful, compassionate Head of the Body, as Raf so aptly wrote.
And how they DEVOUR the Saints!
I love these people and I abhor what they have done because they believe lies like these....
and I once again suggest every CESer reading this
--who has not read The Facts and CES Is In a Mess00
to click on these 2 links and read them now.
Then ask questions of your CES leadership.
Then decide what God wants you to do about what you've learned.
The life you save may be your own.
.....and you'll then be able to save someone else.
CES is not the only place people are being used.
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DogLover
I'm new to reading this (although not new to GreaseSpot), and setting aside the middle school he said/she said nature of much of it, I propose the following for consideration ... this was shared with me by someone else, and I will in turn share it in hopes it may clear things up:
Whenever any group of men and women, such as a Board of Trustees or a Board of Directors, come between God and His Son and the members in particular in a vertical hierarchy, such as we all experienced in the Way Ministry, and which exists in all tax-exempt ministries (by law), SOONER OR LATER the ministry will fail and fall because the organizational structure itself is flawed. It is of man's origin, not God's. It may take years, as it has with CES/Spirit and Truth, etc. and it may happen with well-meaning people (such as CFF, for example), but IT WILL HAPPEN. All the name-calling and particulars in this instance are clouded by the issue of whether personal prophecy is, or is not, of God ... but that is only the smoke screen ... what is or is not of God in the grand scheme of things is the structure of the "ministry" itself.
The members in particular in the body of Christ in the LOCAL CHURCH are the great checks and balances God set in place. Each person has a voice ... not just the Board of Directors.
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Abigail
Well said Grace and DogLover!
I have started working my way through the very lengthy "clergy report". Holy carp, talk about conflicts of interest - MG and his wife are part of the Clergy Board too!
They write that they want to understand what "The Lord" has spoken to them, and not just find support for their position. When I read that, God gave me a prophetic word. He said, "The check is in the mail and I won't . . . ." Well, you get the picture. :blink:
And how interesting that out of the 9 who make up this clergy group, the 4 with the minority view couldn't make the meeting!
How convenient too, that the clergy could find no biblical reason to take the position that certain fellow clergy members, MG & KG, were "unsafe". Sounds like the same logic the BOD in TWI must have used in justifying why they never asked LCM to step down, despite knowing of his extra-marital activities. Afterall, he was the MOG!
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Steve Lortz
Do you wanna see the root of all this evil? It's right there in John's letter. It's something Wierwille taught him. All of us who were involved with TWI fell for it too, to one extent or another.
"...the reason I remain committed to Spirit and Truth Fellowship International is because I can find no one else with the 'package' we have to offer, and I know the true heart with which we present it..."
John writes that he knows his true heart, and the true hearts of the other leaders of CES.
Yet the Word of God declares, "The heart is deceitful above all things. and desperately wicked, who can know it? I the Lord search the heart. I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings." Jeremiah 17:9&10
That's why Hebrews 4:12 says, "The word of God is... ...the discerner [critic] of the thought and intents of the heart."
Anyone who makes the thoughts and intents of his own heart the critic of God's Word is deluding himself.
I've got plenty more to write, but not before I get a good night's sleep.
Love,
Steve
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templelady
Don't know all the specifics
don't really want too
never was interested in CES, STF or any other offshoot because to my way thinking they were trying to put "new wine" into an "old wineskin' with the results as we we are seeing
Sad
Sad because many many people will be hurt
hurt the way they were when TWI collapsed or some other religious group let them down
that is what is sad
not who sits in what position of authority but what all this wrangling does to the people who are spiritually in an already fragile place
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Danny
Steve great point.
I wonder how much time the (the board) spends going to other churches
to see what they have?
I will be like the most high God.
I will be God.
The old if A=B and B=C then A=C .
Funny how twi was ok to JL before he got fired.
Then after he went on to tell all the ills of it and made a
new and improved version.
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Abigail
HA! Depends on how you define improved I suppose. In reading the various documents that have been posted here, it almost sounds to me like CES has the potential to be even worse than TWI was under Martindale's rein. They have taken "revelation" and "spiritual suspicion" to totally new heights!
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Abigail
I find it interesting that Gary and Karen were reproved for keeping their marriage private. I guess not all of them are complete idiots! Good for them for refusing to let the "clergy" and "prophets" intrude. And if the prophets are so great, why didn't God tell them about Gary and Karen's marriage? Maybe they simply didn't need to know, in which case there is no need for reproof now, is there? Or maybe they are simply false prophets? Wolves in sheeps clothing?
And gee I can't imagine why somone would be anxious and suspicious about allowing the prophets to prophesy about them, can you?
Perhpas Karen learned from what happened to Elizabeth? No, that couldn't be. 
Do any of you see how incredibly illogical, hypocritcal, and just plain old insane all of this is?
How convenient too, that the only "prophetic source" indicating Mark needed to step down was from Tier 3 and therefore less than credible. Someone from outside the inner circle is in trouble now!
I am simply flabbergasted by what I am reading. I feel like I have stepped into a "Lord of the Rings" movie. None of this has anything to do with God, it is all about power - who gets to be in charge!
I know my criticsms probably sound harsh to those CESers who are still following this personal prophesy path, but really my harshness is meant for those who have led you down this path and not so much for those who follow. I know those oustide of TWI thought the path I was following looked pretty insane too, though I did not.
The boundaries into your personal life, your space, your head, your walk with God, are generally moved gradually. So gradually you are barely even aware that it is happening. I don't fault you for that, I've been there.
But, I pray that this insanity coming out in the open like it has, will help you step off this path. I pray that you get off this path before your boundaries and your relationship with God is pushed even further. I especially pray for the healing heart and spirit for those of you who have been twice bitten, for those of you who went from TWI to CES.
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skyrider
And....here is another way to read JAL's statement:
...the reason I remain committed to Spirit and Truth Fellowship International is because I can find no one else with the 'package' we have to offer, and I know the true heart with which we present it...
Notice......no mention of God or being lead/guided/called to help others
But.........."the package" is the best deal going.
Same song and dance, different band playing [to know all the answers].
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Danny
All they need is the green card.
you can go down a few treads and get your own personl prophercy for
today if you need one
i know i know oldies or dove will say that not what he wrote.
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Abigail
I have a question for those who follow the doctrine of personal prophesy, can any of you document in the Bible where there was a "Council of Prophets"?
Also, Biblically speaking, how many instances of prophesy deal solely with and indivdual's life v how many instances of prophsey deal with issues pertaining to the group of followers as a whole? Because my understanding of the Bible is that the majority of the time, the prophet was speaking to the group as a whole, and in a signficantly smaller number of instances, did the prophet reprove the individual. Yet with the CES council of prophets, it seems that the majority of the time their prophesies are specific to an individual and rarely are they specific to the group as a whole.
Just some food for thought.
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Sunesis
The imagery of KAG as a flaming minister with the sword coming out of her mouth, and thus compared to Christ as he is described in Revelation when he returns - well, I think that's going just a bit too far - in fact, its insane.
Thus, if you disagree with M & KA, you have gone against God and his son.
I guess she truly has become like a "god."
It seems to me God has pulled the plug on this ministry.
The sad thing is, to them, this seems normal - another crisis - its the adversary attacking us. The strife, false prophets, the drama, the inane longwinded letters - I feel like I'm watching a bunch of 8th graders trying to figure out what to do.
They will never figure it out because Christ is not their head.
They are running around like chickens with their heads cut off.
Its over.
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waterbuffalo
Great point Skyrider. It brings to mind a section of scripture, "I will exhalt my throne above the stars of God. I will be like the most High." (Isaiah 14:12-15) At least he isn't making a pretense of being led by God in peddling his "package.' I'll give him credit for that.
Also, when John said in his letter that KA has "spoken prophetically into my life" for many years, from my understanding of how CES operates this is you have to give people permission to speak into your life. Then you exhibit humility by taking heed to their words. Again, the "us" vs. "them" mentality. You feel compelled to prove you're indeed extwi by setting up a priesthood to run your group.
There is nothing in the Bible that states only the people in your clique can steer you off a wrong track or onto a right one. DogLover made this point very well. The members of the BODY all can quote scripture, speak prophetically (with or without permission), dream dreams, see visions, and tell a brother or sister in the Lord what they think about the way their church is being run. Shoot, I can turn on the TV set and "get a word" from a TV preacher whom I've never met and apply that to my life--have done it many times.
And what about being spirituallly mature enough to make decisions about your own life and marriage? That's why we all took PFAL, wasn't it? So we could understand the Bible for ourselves? You don't need someone to "speak into your life" to know one of your main jobs as a husband is to love and protect your wife, do you? Well, apparently no one in John's little clique was speaking those words. My point here is John, you have surrounded yourself for years with only certain people. What about the wealth of wisdom out there resident in the rest of the Body of Christ? Just about anyone with any common sense could see being led by this little coven was wrong.
Who said if we don't learn from the mistakes in history we are bound to repeat them? It's clear the CES brood is still, as many pointed out, just doing the Way thing and will continue to do so as long as people, as someone said, with itching ears, feel they need this priesthood to interpret the Bible for them with these tapes and books they peddle (so they can understand the Bible the right way, don'tchaknow).
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Sushi
George Santayana, WB.
From Wikipedia:
George Santayana (December 16, 1863, Madrid – September 26, 1952, Rome), was a philosopher, essayist, poet, and novelist.
A lifelong Spanish citizen, Santayana was raised and educated in the United States, invariably wrote in English, and is considered an American man of letters. He is perhaps best known for the oft-quoted remark, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it," from Reason in Common Sense, the first volume of his The Life of Reason
Or within the parameters of how to live your life, just read my signature.
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waterbuffalo
Thanks, Sushi! Hehe. Someone on this board brought mentioned it, too, and I couldn't remember who.
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skyrider
Abso-damn-lutely...!!
This CES-hierarchy thingy is JUST LIKE the twi-thingy.........wanting to LORD OVER God's heritage. It's pride running wild. It's in the devil's ballpark. It's........well, you get my drift.
I signed the green card......TO BETTER RUN MY LIFE (with God at the center).
Who in the heck would "sign on" for a Prophetic Council to manage one's life...??
:blink: :blink:
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WhiteDove
Sky look at the title to this thread A letter from John Lynn. One would assume that when writing a letter that it is common to use first person singular - used to represent the speaker or writer. This is exactly the cr*p that John was talking about in not dialoguing here. Nothing of real substance lets just pick at every word . It is an I for god's sake give it a rest if that's the best you can come up with. "Lets see Oh he said I how can I spin that to make me look like I have seen some great revelation in his words Let me expound it to you.." No hypocrisy there
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rascal
*they will never figure this out because they do not have Christ at their head*
Well said sunesis.
As was true in twi as well, which is why it all went so wrong I think.
All of the research and knowledge and accuracy cannot take his place or make one a genuine Christian.
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oldiesman
Hi Danny.
Happy New Year and best wishes in 2007. :)
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waterbuffalo
Good point, Rascal.
If Christ is not their head, then logically speaking, how accurate is their research, really?
If the premise is skewed, would not the conclusions follow suit?
Oeno says it best ( and I believe he means this as a paraphrase of the verse in Ephesians about knowledge and love)--
Love wins.
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lagates
CES started out with bible teachings. Once they started with Momentus and the Prophetic, they went too far.
Another problem is they are not accountable to anyone but themselves.
We did give money to the ministry but stopped because they would not say how much they personally kept for salaries.
Of course John Lynn didn't take a salary but the minisry paid his expenses.
Again, one of the problems is they don't take advise from anyone......they are always right. Sounds like organized religion to me.
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justpassingthrough
God bless you and greetings in the wonderful name of Jesus Christ!
I have a question, who around here is feeding on drama that a trouble making out of fellowship crybaby can gain entrance here?
First of all, The Word of God states very clearly how to determine if one is in the center of God's Will.
1. Is it loving?
2. Is it kind?
3. Is is unselfish with concern for another?
4. Is it true according to God's Word?
5. Is it right according to God's Word?
I could care less who did what to who. You are all off the mark, and all of you should be ashamed that I have to write this, but God says we are to speak a Word fitly spoken so here it is: Thus saith the Lord:
If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And if I shall dole out all my goods in food, and if I deliver up my body that I may be burned, but have not love, I profit nothing. Love has long patience, is kind; love is not emulous [of others]; love is not insolent and rash, is not puffed up, does not behave in an unseemly manner, does not seek what is its own, is not quickly provoked, does not impute evil, does not rejoice at iniquity but rejoices with the truth, bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails; but whether prophecies, they shall be done away; or tongues, they shall cease; or knowledge, it shall be done away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part: but when that which is perfect has come, that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I reasoned as a child; when I became a man, I had done with what belonged to the child. For we see now through a dim window obscurely, but then face to face; now I know partially, but then I shall know according as I also have been known. And now abide faith, hope, love; these three things; and the greater of these [is] love. (1Cr 13:1-13 DBY)
Use the Word of God as the standard for Truth and go through those vomitorium, gangrenous, venomous letters from Rev Lynn, and sir, you should be ashamed of yourself, you know better. It is far more needful to be loving than to be right. And this did not concern most of these folks so all you did was stir up the pot some more. Take some advice from me: Shut up. And to all those who read this, please remember the Word you were taught and walk in love, walk in light and walk wise.
Any questions or concerns please feel free to email me at doulee888@yahoo.com.
At Your Service,
Janis L. Lang
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Ham
sheesh..
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