Fourth, take an honest look at what we teach from the Word about whatever subjects are pertinent to this matter, like prophecy. Prophecy is prophecy, and to criticize “personal prophecy” as unbiblical, in and of itself, is contrary to Scripture.
This WAS a public statement, was it not?
so was this one:
In that vein, the reason I remain totally committed to Spirit and Truth Fellowship International is because I can find no one else with the “package” we have to offer
If think he's out of his mind putting these things on a PUBLIC BOARD, considering he KNOWS people come here to debate.
Then he refuses to debate.
Will he come back? Oh no. He'll leave the debate and argument to his "followers" to defend his "honor".
And he calls US cowardly and unloving. Right..
Yeah, I know he did not DIRECTLY post this, but to give it to someone, saying somehow these things "just happen" to end up on the internet-
May as well as have done it himself.
won't post it, lets someone else do it..
so pitiful.
Yep. Just sends an opened message, in the hands of a messenger (don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against the messenger :) )
...and why? because we don't use our real names?...funny, that never stopped me from posting here...or you either...but it's too much for Mr Lynn to deal with...
Yep.. too much. So much fear.. I think he's afraid, afraid to lose.
These mog types are addicted, to WINNING. Addicted to being "right", the rest of the world "wrong"..
It was instilled within me in twi that the "clergy" the leaders were a "higher authority" they knew more had more knowledge of God, and God just dealt with them more so He must love them more. I learned the word "meek" in twi and it was not to be to God it was to the leaders and ministers because God put them in positions of authority.
some of this stuff is still residue in the followers of the off shoots.
it is some deep stuff, that will blow your mind when and if you ever break it.
sure sure now we have to be pc and not really say it out loud... youknow say one thing but have the know how with many years of practice to influence people to what really should be.
and if you "get it" they will love you , and tell you all the others just do not get the "real meaning " so you to can feel relieved your in with God like them you know up there where the "others" do not understand just yet.
but of course they must be careful the devil and all want them!!! more than those unbelieving believers and he will use them to cause division.
so be nice and know if you really trust God you should just trust it will be just another case of "them" not getting the real meaning (because they do not understand God as they do of course) and do not speak of any gossip (o gasp! not that just the very foundation of the CES ministry that JOHN LYNN started with) and be happy.
because they care about you until YOU do question how it is done or what happened.
it is serious business living off other people and one has to be careful you know and trust only those worthy of it!
some day God almighty will slap them right across the face. Im convinced.
I’ve been there, and maybe I can help you see this, as I have come to terms with how the enemy has hurt STF via my failures
Hurt STF?? what about PEOPLE? I think he meant what he said. I think he cares mainly for the survival of the organization.
And still no real personal accountability. Still blames the devil- "the enemy has hurt STF via my failures"
That being said, after reading your 14-page paper, I am more convinced than ever that what I wrote in the letter I read to you is the truth. Your paper was a smokescreen, a morass of posturing, shucking and jiving, shifting the blame, and, as I said in the letter I read to you, a gross example of someone with a beam talking about the splinters in others’ eyes.
Sounds like J.L.'s demeanor toward us. "I'm right, buy my book. If you have a 'problem' with that, call me".
Karen Anne Graeser has often spoken prophetically into my life and been right on the money, to my great benefit.
could have fooled me.
What did she speak?
Spiders and such, protecting the "ministry" from the evils of J.L.'s then wife?
What I'd like to see, is the files of other "prophecies" and dreams they have stored away. I think this little convenient bit of information is the tip of quite a large iceberg.
I wonder if the office shredders are working overtime.
Spiders and such, protecting the "ministry" from the evils of J.L.'s then wife?
What I'd like to see, is the files of other "prophecies" and dreams they have stored away. I think this little convenient bit of information is the tip of quite a large iceberg.
I wonder if the office shredders are working overtime.
No Fooling Hammer,
Karen Ann prophecied once over me,
and the Word prepared me for what was to come.
It was "Right On"
I Cor 14 and IJohn 4:1 are two places in particular
that advise caution when considering prophecy.
I still hold to the notion that God will reveal to you first His will,
and genuine prophecy thus reminds you of what He's been saying all along,
and the prophetic Word resonates with the revealed Word of the holy spirit within.
We are all learning good lessons.
I mainly keep learning I'm not as smart as I used to think.
When I think I have more of the Truth than you (even if I do), but have not yet broken into true humility before God and Jesus (death of self; all I 'have' is a gift; I deserved death but were given life, etc.), but am still prideful about having the Truth, then I think telling you what to do (or even making you do it) is 'help'.
If I have good intentions, and I think I've got the Truth (even if I do), but have not yet broken and become grateful to be a servant, then more telling you what to do is more help.
Since I define it as Help, not Control, today's pop-psychology's mumbo jumbo that manufactures victims who need help can lead me further and further astray until I can become very diligent to be sure I'm 'helping' you as much as possible. All the while my good intentioned-heart has been deceived and I've wandered into calling evil Good, calling control Help, calling witchcraft Love and of course calling law Grace.
Witchcraft can, of course, become demonic, but Galatians lists it as a sin of the flesh--I want my way (ask any 2-year old). When I'm 50 and I'm right, then obviously the best thing for you is to want my way too. And the beat goes on.....
Yes I've had some excellent personal prophecies from KAG and others in CES. Done right, it's powerful stuff
that can build people up and provide direction. That's from my experience, and by the way - also the Bible's point of view.
I've given and received personal prophecy to people in CES and other groups as well, and my experience
has been similar.
Covet spiritual gifts (enablings), especially prophecy. That's what that 'ole Bible says...
Yep, sure, spiritual enablements have the potential to be used wrongly. But there is also great potential profit,
so I for one am willing to take the risk, trust God, and learn how to work God's power that lives in me.
People who view these enablements as a thing of the past or out of reach for Joe Christian
will obviously have a different view of things.
CS
when you say your precious "enablements" with those words of your learning of "how to work God's power that lives in YOU"
you sound Proud and able beyond what those who "obvioulsy have a different view of things".
are you certain you do NOT believe you more enlightened than the "joe Christian" and you not super duper with all power christian? more learned anyways right? hmmm. lucky you right? does God love you more, or is all about what YOU have been able to accomplish once again with a twist in it and a but but but?
sure sounds like a tad arrogant to me.
news flash I do not give personal prophecy to anyone nor do i recieve it from the super learned beyond "joe believer"( less than is REALLY implied in your statement)
and God loves me and enables me plenty.
it fits like a hand in a glove WHY you want this group to carry on they are some of the "more learned" beyond Joe believer who have a different view of things, and important to you because your special . and they provide you with some twisted bible reference so you can continue to feel superiour with them.
now it is even MORE special cause hell yah they got caught in a mistake and you still can give and recieve prophecy and not have the finger turned on YOU .. yet.
you even better than them now!!!
but do keep it in context dear , they are also of the special more learned group. you need to believe it. about them and about you.
for me the LORD Jesus christ accomplished all the learning I will ever need and simply calls himself my friend.
Im happy you feel so successful , and believe for your friends to keep on learning how to prophecy to one another and ya know those pesky "joe believers" will just have to carry on with only the LORD to love and guide them.
There is only one person in the whole world whom I have met who I would consider a "prophet", and the person does not have an agenda. No classes to sell, no recommendations to take this class, that class.. no doctrine to shove down the throat.. no demands of loyalty, no books to sell, nor any claims to be "right". And no arrogance.
Totally opposite life, from the lifestyle of the "rich and famous" (Graeser, Lynn Et al).
In a sense, I feel like CES has learned how to channel their arrogance. That's the "mind blowing" power people feel. In my opinion anyway.
When I think I have more of the Truth than you (even if I do), but have not yet broken into true humility before God and Jesus (death of self; all I 'have' is a gift; I deserved death but were given life, etc.), but am still prideful about having the Truth, then I think telling you what to do (or even making you do it) is 'help'.
If I have good intentions, and I think I've got the Truth (even if I do), but have not yet broken and become grateful to be a servant, then more telling you what to do is more help.
Since I define it as Help, not Control, today's pop-psychology's mumbo jumbo that manufactures victims who need help can lead me further and further astray until I can become very diligent to be sure I'm 'helping' you as much as possible. All the while my good intentioned-heart has been deceived and I've wandered into calling evil Good, calling control Help, calling witchcraft Love and of course calling law Grace.
Witchcraft can, of course, become demonic, but Galatians lists it as a sin of the flesh--I want my way (ask any 2-year old). When I'm 50 and I'm right, then obviously the best thing for you is to want my way too. And the beat goes on.....
Grace, what a great post! I have been thinking about things like this a lot lately.
And what possible good is all my knowledge of the truth if it keeps me blinded to actual needs? Why also do some people with very screwy doctrines have such Godly practices? I mean their views of eternity and god I can't buy, but their true charity and caring for their fellow man is much higher than what we see with those claiming higher knowledge.
...Yes I've had some excellent personal prophecies from KAG and others in CES. Done right, it's powerful stuff that can build people up and provide direction. That's from my experience, and by the way - also the Bible's point of view...
I’m just curious - what’s the scriptural reference(s) that show personal prophecy provides direction? Do you view personal prophecy as having a big influence on your decision-making process?
When I think I have more of the Truth than you (even if I do), but have not yet broken into true humility before God and Jesus (death of self; all I 'have' is a gift; I deserved death but were given life, etc.), but am still prideful about having the Truth, then I think telling you what to do (or even making you do it) is 'help'.
If I have good intentions, and I think I've got the Truth (even if I do), but have not yet broken and become grateful to be a servant, then more telling you what to do is more help.
Since I define it as Help, not Control, today's pop-psychology's mumbo jumbo that manufactures victims who need help can lead me further and further astray until I can become very diligent to be sure I'm 'helping' you as much as possible. All the while my good intentioned-heart has been deceived and I've wandered into calling evil Good, calling control Help, calling witchcraft Love and of course calling law Grace.
Witchcraft can, of course, become demonic, but Galatians lists it as a sin of the flesh--I want my way (ask any 2-year old). When I'm 50 and I'm right, then obviously the best thing for you is to want my way too. And the beat goes on.....
it's interesting, and puzzling, to me that someone could find this a great post. it's nonsense to me. babbling. i guess it's all the code words and concepts i'm not privy to. as an outsider, it looks like you're demeaning one brand of "mumbo-jumbo" with what appears to me to be little more than mumbo-jumbo.
that's not a criticism of either therebut or ductape. just an observation.
I’m just curious - what’s the scriptural reference(s) that show personal prophecy provides direction? Do you view personal prophecy as having a big influence on your decision-making process?
There are lots of Biblical references. I can get those to you if you are interested. It will take a little time to put it all together for you, so I want to make sure you are interested in learning before I start on this path. Time is valuable to me.
Personal prophecy has had some influence on some decisions I have made. What is has often done is confirmed something which God was already been trying to let me know about. In other cases, it has helped me sort out some of the root causes of things going on in my life.
when you say your precious "enablements" with those words of your learning of "how to work God's power that lives in YOU"
you sound Proud and able beyond what those who "obvioulsy have a different view of things".
are you certain you do NOT believe you more enlightened than the "joe Christian" and you not super duper with all power christian? more learned anyways right? hmmm. lucky you right? does God love you more, or is all about what YOU have been able to accomplish once again with a twist in it and a but but but?
sure sounds like a tad arrogant to me.
news flash I do not give personal prophecy to anyone nor do i recieve it from the super learned beyond "joe believer"( less than is REALLY implied in your statement)
and God loves me and enables me plenty.
it fits like a hand in a glove WHY you want this group to carry on they are some of the "more learned" beyond Joe believer who have a different view of things, and important to you because your special . and they provide you with some twisted bible reference so you can continue to feel superiour with them.
now it is even MORE special cause hell yah they got caught in a mistake and you still can give and recieve prophecy and not have the finger turned on YOU .. yet.
you even better than them now!!!
but do keep it in context dear , they are also of the special more learned group. you need to believe it. about them and about you.
for me the LORD Jesus christ accomplished all the learning I will ever need and simply calls himself my friend.
Im happy you feel so successful , and believe for your friends to keep on learning how to prophecy to one another and ya know those pesky "joe believers" will just have to carry on with only the LORD to love and guide them.
sorry i feel i got the better deal.
love
joe believer.
Hey pond, it seems like you missed a lot of what I was trying to say...maybe it's a style thing...
No I'm not trying to be arrogant. I'm just trying to put forth some of what I've learned and seen from God.
I don't think of myself as a super believer. But I do feel an obligation to speak and teach when I have the
chance.
Knowledge can puff people up, but that doesn't mean that God wants us to be without knowledge. Without knowledge it is kind of hard to move to wisdom and understanding.
I'm glad you feel you got the "better deal." I thought that there was one deal - salvation through Jesus Christ.
Umm, you might be surprised to know that the modern witchcraft movement isn't much into cursing or authoritarian or magickal control of others. Or poisoning!
In fact, those actions are pretty much frowned upon, and I, to my knowledge, haven't met a witch who's into cursing and control. Most belive in some manner of Karma or Law of Returns and tend to be cautious.
So I wish those of you that like to use the term 'witchcraft' to mean something so derogatory, would be more specific in defining the use of that term.
In my experience, there was much more control in authoritarian Christian TWI, plus cursings( predictions of disaster, delivering people to SAtan etc.) and manipulative prayers to change another person, even against their will, then there is in the modern witch/pagan movement/religions.
And plenty of Christians pray for things they want in their lives and attempt to control their life and other's live through prayer.
Hey pond, it seems like you missed a lot of what I was trying to say...maybe it's a style thing...
No I'm not trying to be arrogant. I'm just trying to put forth some of what I've learned and seen from God.
I don't think of myself as a super believer. But I do feel an obligation to speak and teach when I have the
chance.
Knowledge can puff people up, but that doesn't mean that God wants us to be without knowledge. Without knowledge it is kind of hard to move to wisdom and understanding.
I'm glad you feel you got the "better deal." I thought that there was one deal - salvation through Jesus Christ.
CS
Jesus says to come to him as a little child, not to much knowledge or wisdom in a little child .
I thought "wisdom was a manefastation hahah wisdom doesnt take knowledge at all the wisdom of God is Given to a person not a learned as in your works once again. jesus did give us much more than eternal life or a salvation from this life, he gave us access to God or reconciliation to HIS wisdom.
once again it is NOT all about what you can accomplish , but what Jesus christ did for you.
this moving away from the Saviour is done exactly like you describe in the thinking you can do it it is all about you working for it.
the salvation of Christ is a gift. freely given with No strings attached. There is no such thing as your more knowledgeable strings if you do this or that. But stf will tell you this tape or seminar will give you these powers better than anyone eles.
and yes it is a sell of witchcraft.
It turns into a competition , (how powerful are YOU?) What do you think you Learned?) now you can personal prophecy, which is what i was referring to in that post. God says His ways are very much higher than any mans ability, yet you still compete for His title as has satan since this whole thing started!
and it works because you FEEL better more equiped better able for God, YOU have the answer , even if it from the bible story, it is YOUR spin on how YOU think it applies to a person. and YOU got the power... YOU helped... you learned the ways of God which is a solid LIE as the bible clearly says Jesus christ is Gods ONLY Son.
all this line of thinking moves a person awy from the AWE of Jesus Christ and the majesty and into the focus of what YOU can do .
just like the snake first deceived . you can be like God.
it is suble and tricky and many involved in these off shoots buy the LIE.
I’m just curious - what’s the scriptural reference(s) that show personal prophecy provides direction? Do you view personal prophecy as having a big influence on your decision-making process?
Allow me to split a hair and say
prophecy is prophecy.
the word "personal" has been added and it is not found in scripture.
and "What You Speak"
remains God's business.
The bible never said only a "Gift Ministry"
is able to prophecy specifics.
"Joe Believer" is fully enabled and totally equiped to move in the power of holy spirit
even if he never heard of an Advanced Class.
A "certain disciple" named Ananais spoke a very precise Word to Saul of Tarsus
in Acts 9. He was also being directed by "this same Jesus", not the Father.
Very powerful Truth.
Here's another one:
Acts 13:2
" As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted,
the holy ghost said,
Separate me Barnabus and Saul
for the work whereunto I have called them"
and another,
( which is a clear example of where the prophecy didn't exactly happen as stated,
but was a genuine prophecy none the less.)
Acts 21:11
"...Thus saith the Holy Ghost.
So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man
that owneth this girdle,
and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles"
but we see in v 33 that it was the Romans who bound Paul
and delivered him from the hands of the Jews.
I recall Gregg Farriss (SP?) teaching how the message is holy when it leaves heaven,
but sometimes it gets messed up before it leaves the prophets mouth...
Seems to me that if all of this prophesy stuff was genuine, the *prophets* would have seen all of the hurt that was going to be inflicted.
I guess even if I believed that prophesy was being praticed, I`d have to hazard a guess from the fruit exhibited, that it would have to be considered not genuine.
I mean how many times have we seen that people will have a personal dislike of a person or a situation and assigne *spiritual* motives to their purely personal discomfort or dislike.
God isnt good enough or God is not enough to deliver His people once again :people can mess up his efforts to help His creation. Because they have that much power bigger than God even.
poor God what will He do now?
a real loser your God . He goes about claiming to be a God but his own creation can stop him from any effort to help!
how sad.
and not my God or Lord Jesus christ He already won every battle even DEATH !!!
what mockery you people get into you claim God is so small and unable to deliver because once again
IT IS ALL ABOUT YOU!!!! and what YOU do!!! or dont.
give me a break Im glad I do not know your weak and begger God so dependent on YOU.
I rejoice in a Saviour that has been all and is all I will ever need to know how to worship a true loving God , His father and mine. again you slap and crucify the KING of KIngs and compete for what God has already honored HIM with on the throne of the most High.
My god loves and protects me because of HIS works not yours thank you God.
and as if He doest know Im a sinner it is written and YOU know what?
that is exactly why he died or was murdered by those who are so afraid of His righteousness they needed some for their self to claim they had the job of saving all.
keep trying to save yourself, in the mean time i worship the LORD God and grow ever so thankful for Jesus christ who pleased HIM as the ONLY begotten Son and what He has done with NO mistakes or Sin able to stop HIM!!
while your god is stumbling around being wounded by the mistakes you make (even tho it was so good out of heaven hahah) My own claims a victory in Jesus Christ!!!!!
There are lots of Biblical references. I can get those to you if you are interested. It will take a little time to put it all together for you, so I want to make sure you are interested in learning before I start on this path. Time is valuable to me...
That’s okay – never mind…I just thought you’d mention a couple of verses…didn’t expect a doctrinal thesis.
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Ham
Yeah.. that is the point here I think..
This WAS a public statement, was it not?so was this one:
If think he's out of his mind putting these things on a PUBLIC BOARD, considering he KNOWS people come here to debate.
Then he refuses to debate.
Will he come back? Oh no. He'll leave the debate and argument to his "followers" to defend his "honor".
And he calls US cowardly and unloving. Right..
Yeah, I know he did not DIRECTLY post this, but to give it to someone, saying somehow these things "just happen" to end up on the internet-
May as well as have done it himself.
won't post it, lets someone else do it..
so pitiful.
Yep. Just sends an opened message, in the hands of a messenger (don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against the messenger :) )
But I take it as an insult.
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Ham
From Groucho:
Yep.. too much. So much fear.. I think he's afraid, afraid to lose.
These mog types are addicted, to WINNING. Addicted to being "right", the rest of the world "wrong"..
pitiful.
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pond
It was instilled within me in twi that the "clergy" the leaders were a "higher authority" they knew more had more knowledge of God, and God just dealt with them more so He must love them more. I learned the word "meek" in twi and it was not to be to God it was to the leaders and ministers because God put them in positions of authority.
some of this stuff is still residue in the followers of the off shoots.
it is some deep stuff, that will blow your mind when and if you ever break it.
sure sure now we have to be pc and not really say it out loud... youknow say one thing but have the know how with many years of practice to influence people to what really should be.
and if you "get it" they will love you , and tell you all the others just do not get the "real meaning " so you to can feel relieved your in with God like them you know up there where the "others" do not understand just yet.
but of course they must be careful the devil and all want them!!! more than those unbelieving believers and he will use them to cause division.
so be nice and know if you really trust God you should just trust it will be just another case of "them" not getting the real meaning (because they do not understand God as they do of course) and do not speak of any gossip (o gasp! not that just the very foundation of the CES ministry that JOHN LYNN started with) and be happy.
because they care about you until YOU do question how it is done or what happened.
it is serious business living off other people and one has to be careful you know and trust only those worthy of it!
some day God almighty will slap them right across the face. Im convinced.
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Ham
more public statements:
Hurt STF?? what about PEOPLE? I think he meant what he said. I think he cares mainly for the survival of the organization.And still no real personal accountability. Still blames the devil- "the enemy has hurt STF via my failures"
Sounds like J.L.'s demeanor toward us. "I'm right, buy my book. If you have a 'problem' with that, call me".
Just another "morass of posturing".
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Ham
could have fooled me.
What did she speak?
Spiders and such, protecting the "ministry" from the evils of J.L.'s then wife?
What I'd like to see, is the files of other "prophecies" and dreams they have stored away. I think this little convenient bit of information is the tip of quite a large iceberg.
I wonder if the office shredders are working overtime.
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therebutforgrace
oops, wrong thread...
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Estimated Prophet
No Fooling Hammer,
Karen Ann prophecied once over me,
and the Word prepared me for what was to come.
It was "Right On"
I Cor 14 and IJohn 4:1 are two places in particular
that advise caution when considering prophecy.
I still hold to the notion that God will reveal to you first His will,
and genuine prophecy thus reminds you of what He's been saying all along,
and the prophetic Word resonates with the revealed Word of the holy spirit within.
We are all learning good lessons.
I mainly keep learning I'm not as smart as I used to think.
So I hold on tighter
and try to walk a little closer with my Lord.
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caribousam
Hi EP, hi hammer,
Yes I've had some excellent personal prophecies from KAG and others in CES. Done right, it's powerful stuff
that can build people up and provide direction. That's from my experience, and by the way - also the Bible's point of view.
I've given and received personal prophecy to people in CES and other groups as well, and my experience
has been similar.
Covet spiritual gifts (enablings), especially prophecy. That's what that 'ole Bible says...
Yep, sure, spiritual enablements have the potential to be used wrongly. But there is also great potential profit,
so I for one am willing to take the risk, trust God, and learn how to work God's power that lives in me.
People who view these enablements as a thing of the past or out of reach for Joe Christian
will obviously have a different view of things.
CS
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caribousam
Hey Oak, yes you are right, JAL's comments are not logical. I do believe that he has a large need
to CONTROL things...this kind of attitude can bring about bad results in Christianity, and in life
in general. I've seen good and bad things about CES, but one thing that seemed to be especially
hurtful was leaders' need to CONTROL at times when it may have been better to just let things BE.
Just thinking out loud....
CS
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therebutforgrace
When I think I have more of the Truth than you (even if I do), but have not yet broken into true humility before God and Jesus (death of self; all I 'have' is a gift; I deserved death but were given life, etc.), but am still prideful about having the Truth, then I think telling you what to do (or even making you do it) is 'help'.
If I have good intentions, and I think I've got the Truth (even if I do), but have not yet broken and become grateful to be a servant, then more telling you what to do is more help.
Since I define it as Help, not Control, today's pop-psychology's mumbo jumbo that manufactures victims who need help can lead me further and further astray until I can become very diligent to be sure I'm 'helping' you as much as possible. All the while my good intentioned-heart has been deceived and I've wandered into calling evil Good, calling control Help, calling witchcraft Love and of course calling law Grace.
Witchcraft can, of course, become demonic, but Galatians lists it as a sin of the flesh--I want my way (ask any 2-year old). When I'm 50 and I'm right, then obviously the best thing for you is to want my way too. And the beat goes on.....
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pond
when you say your precious "enablements" with those words of your learning of "how to work God's power that lives in YOU"
you sound Proud and able beyond what those who "obvioulsy have a different view of things".
are you certain you do NOT believe you more enlightened than the "joe Christian" and you not super duper with all power christian? more learned anyways right? hmmm. lucky you right? does God love you more, or is all about what YOU have been able to accomplish once again with a twist in it and a but but but?
sure sounds like a tad arrogant to me.
news flash I do not give personal prophecy to anyone nor do i recieve it from the super learned beyond "joe believer"( less than is REALLY implied in your statement)
and God loves me and enables me plenty.
it fits like a hand in a glove WHY you want this group to carry on they are some of the "more learned" beyond Joe believer who have a different view of things, and important to you because your special . and they provide you with some twisted bible reference so you can continue to feel superiour with them.
now it is even MORE special cause hell yah they got caught in a mistake and you still can give and recieve prophecy and not have the finger turned on YOU .. yet.
you even better than them now!!!
but do keep it in context dear , they are also of the special more learned group. you need to believe it. about them and about you.
for me the LORD Jesus christ accomplished all the learning I will ever need and simply calls himself my friend.
Im happy you feel so successful , and believe for your friends to keep on learning how to prophecy to one another and ya know those pesky "joe believers" will just have to carry on with only the LORD to love and guide them.
sorry i feel i got the better deal.
love
joe believer.
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Ham
There is only one person in the whole world whom I have met who I would consider a "prophet", and the person does not have an agenda. No classes to sell, no recommendations to take this class, that class.. no doctrine to shove down the throat.. no demands of loyalty, no books to sell, nor any claims to be "right". And no arrogance.
Totally opposite life, from the lifestyle of the "rich and famous" (Graeser, Lynn Et al).
In a sense, I feel like CES has learned how to channel their arrogance. That's the "mind blowing" power people feel. In my opinion anyway.
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Ductape
Grace, what a great post! I have been thinking about things like this a lot lately.
And what possible good is all my knowledge of the truth if it keeps me blinded to actual needs? Why also do some people with very screwy doctrines have such Godly practices? I mean their views of eternity and god I can't buy, but their true charity and caring for their fellow man is much higher than what we see with those claiming higher knowledge.
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excathedra
dear (((((((((((( ductape )))))))))))
here is a nice version from some translation of the end of i corin. 8:1
and like the KJV from the way, knowledge puffs up, chartity edifies...... that's good too
love,ex
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T-Bone
I’m just curious - what’s the scriptural reference(s) that show personal prophecy provides direction? Do you view personal prophecy as having a big influence on your decision-making process?
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sprawled out
it's interesting, and puzzling, to me that someone could find this a great post. it's nonsense to me. babbling. i guess it's all the code words and concepts i'm not privy to. as an outsider, it looks like you're demeaning one brand of "mumbo-jumbo" with what appears to me to be little more than mumbo-jumbo.
that's not a criticism of either therebut or ductape. just an observation.
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caribousam
There are lots of Biblical references. I can get those to you if you are interested. It will take a little time to put it all together for you, so I want to make sure you are interested in learning before I start on this path. Time is valuable to me.
Personal prophecy has had some influence on some decisions I have made. What is has often done is confirmed something which God was already been trying to let me know about. In other cases, it has helped me sort out some of the root causes of things going on in my life.
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caribousam
Hey pond, it seems like you missed a lot of what I was trying to say...maybe it's a style thing...
No I'm not trying to be arrogant. I'm just trying to put forth some of what I've learned and seen from God.
I don't think of myself as a super believer. But I do feel an obligation to speak and teach when I have the
chance.
Knowledge can puff people up, but that doesn't mean that God wants us to be without knowledge. Without knowledge it is kind of hard to move to wisdom and understanding.
I'm glad you feel you got the "better deal." I thought that there was one deal - salvation through Jesus Christ.
CS
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Bramble
Umm, you might be surprised to know that the modern witchcraft movement isn't much into cursing or authoritarian or magickal control of others. Or poisoning!
In fact, those actions are pretty much frowned upon, and I, to my knowledge, haven't met a witch who's into cursing and control. Most belive in some manner of Karma or Law of Returns and tend to be cautious.
So I wish those of you that like to use the term 'witchcraft' to mean something so derogatory, would be more specific in defining the use of that term.
In my experience, there was much more control in authoritarian Christian TWI, plus cursings( predictions of disaster, delivering people to SAtan etc.) and manipulative prayers to change another person, even against their will, then there is in the modern witch/pagan movement/religions.
And plenty of Christians pray for things they want in their lives and attempt to control their life and other's live through prayer.
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pond
Jesus says to come to him as a little child, not to much knowledge or wisdom in a little child .
I thought "wisdom was a manefastation hahah wisdom doesnt take knowledge at all the wisdom of God is Given to a person not a learned as in your works once again. jesus did give us much more than eternal life or a salvation from this life, he gave us access to God or reconciliation to HIS wisdom.
once again it is NOT all about what you can accomplish , but what Jesus christ did for you.
this moving away from the Saviour is done exactly like you describe in the thinking you can do it it is all about you working for it.
the salvation of Christ is a gift. freely given with No strings attached. There is no such thing as your more knowledgeable strings if you do this or that. But stf will tell you this tape or seminar will give you these powers better than anyone eles.
and yes it is a sell of witchcraft.
It turns into a competition , (how powerful are YOU?) What do you think you Learned?) now you can personal prophecy, which is what i was referring to in that post. God says His ways are very much higher than any mans ability, yet you still compete for His title as has satan since this whole thing started!
and it works because you FEEL better more equiped better able for God, YOU have the answer , even if it from the bible story, it is YOUR spin on how YOU think it applies to a person. and YOU got the power... YOU helped... you learned the ways of God which is a solid LIE as the bible clearly says Jesus christ is Gods ONLY Son.
all this line of thinking moves a person awy from the AWE of Jesus Christ and the majesty and into the focus of what YOU can do .
just like the snake first deceived . you can be like God.
it is suble and tricky and many involved in these off shoots buy the LIE.
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Estimated Prophet
Allow me to split a hair and say
prophecy is prophecy.
the word "personal" has been added and it is not found in scripture.
and "What You Speak"
remains God's business.
The bible never said only a "Gift Ministry"
is able to prophecy specifics.
"Joe Believer" is fully enabled and totally equiped to move in the power of holy spirit
even if he never heard of an Advanced Class.
A "certain disciple" named Ananais spoke a very precise Word to Saul of Tarsus
in Acts 9. He was also being directed by "this same Jesus", not the Father.
Very powerful Truth.
Here's another one:
Acts 13:2
" As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted,
the holy ghost said,
Separate me Barnabus and Saul
for the work whereunto I have called them"
and another,
( which is a clear example of where the prophecy didn't exactly happen as stated,
but was a genuine prophecy none the less.)
Acts 21:11
"...Thus saith the Holy Ghost.
So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man
that owneth this girdle,
and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles"
but we see in v 33 that it was the Romans who bound Paul
and delivered him from the hands of the Jews.
I recall Gregg Farriss (SP?) teaching how the message is holy when it leaves heaven,
but sometimes it gets messed up before it leaves the prophets mouth...
let him with eyes that see , and ears that hear,
understand in his heart
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rascal
Seems to me that if all of this prophesy stuff was genuine, the *prophets* would have seen all of the hurt that was going to be inflicted.
I guess even if I believed that prophesy was being praticed, I`d have to hazard a guess from the fruit exhibited, that it would have to be considered not genuine.
I mean how many times have we seen that people will have a personal dislike of a person or a situation and assigne *spiritual* motives to their purely personal discomfort or dislike.
I have seen it in many groups.
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pond
i find it so like twi.
God isnt good enough or God is not enough to deliver His people once again :people can mess up his efforts to help His creation. Because they have that much power bigger than God even.
poor God what will He do now?
a real loser your God . He goes about claiming to be a God but his own creation can stop him from any effort to help!
how sad.
and not my God or Lord Jesus christ He already won every battle even DEATH !!!
what mockery you people get into you claim God is so small and unable to deliver because once again
IT IS ALL ABOUT YOU!!!! and what YOU do!!! or dont.
give me a break Im glad I do not know your weak and begger God so dependent on YOU.
I rejoice in a Saviour that has been all and is all I will ever need to know how to worship a true loving God , His father and mine. again you slap and crucify the KING of KIngs and compete for what God has already honored HIM with on the throne of the most High.
My god loves and protects me because of HIS works not yours thank you God.
and as if He doest know Im a sinner it is written and YOU know what?
that is exactly why he died or was murdered by those who are so afraid of His righteousness they needed some for their self to claim they had the job of saving all.
keep trying to save yourself, in the mean time i worship the LORD God and grow ever so thankful for Jesus christ who pleased HIM as the ONLY begotten Son and what He has done with NO mistakes or Sin able to stop HIM!!
while your god is stumbling around being wounded by the mistakes you make (even tho it was so good out of heaven hahah) My own claims a victory in Jesus Christ!!!!!
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T-Bone
That’s okay – never mind…I just thought you’d mention a couple of verses…didn’t expect a doctrinal thesis.
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