Hi Justpassingthrough--what a great name..Thank God we are.....By the way, I'm a newbie also. These folks here...they really are wonderful. Stick with us.....and don't think you have to PM or post everything you think. (I often want to, so I'm learning alongside you.)
Would it be OK if I brought us back to a question Skyrider asked?
Who in the heck would "sign on" for a Prophetic Council to manage one's life
I was a CESer.
No CESer I know signed on for a PAC to manage their lives.
Any CESer reading this is now finding out, however, that their BOD had evolved into signing on for it. That can be quite a shocker, as Abigail so well said. I'm not shocked, because it's old news to me, but I wanted to knock people upside the head for quite a while when I first began to see it.
So...the BOD was signing on...but what the general CESers saw looked much better:
"Personal prophecy will be made available after the meeting". Most of the PPs that I heard were nothing like the stuff we've seen here at GS. The 'corrective words' were those given further from the maddening crowd (pun intended). The closer you got to the inner circle the more of the harsh words you ‘lovingly received’. And this went on for years.....little by little by little.....until EVERY BOD member came to BELIEVE what they were told about them. That these are warnings are from a gracious God and can ‘support’ JAL and E through the ‘spiritual attack’ on them because of their leadership role at the ‘forefront’ of what God is doing in the world.
People who haven’t previously been scorched by such evil might laugh off the ‘prophecies’.
I almost gaged typing the 'gracious God' sentence.
Most of us reading the prophecies here are not only repelled by them but also compelled to shout FOUL!!!!
But remember,..JAL and E’s ‘prophecies’ were absolutely to remain within the BOD and PAC and spouses. One of the reasons they ‘brought strong correction to’ E (read punished) was for was talking to one of her close friends about them...NOTE: E had only been married to the BOD for a few months, so she still had other friends.
So.....the CES BOD and PAC, like the frog in boiling water, had surrounded themselves with themselves and told themselves about themselves over and over and over and one of themselves told themselves how the enemy would use ‘attacks against the prophetic’ to stop themselves from being the ‘unique ministry’ God needed themselves to be.
It’s printed in the paper Mark, KA, Tom, Susan and Nancy wrote....."Unfortunately if those with hardened hearts do not repent they end up resisting the prophets and their messages and become resisters of the prophetic." This is the exact condemnation/accusation Elizabeth was under, and why, as she continued to insist more and more that those 'prophecies' were not of God, JS could continue to BELIEVE more and more that she had 'hardened her heart' more and more, and therefore JAL should divorce her. It's also why JAL (who should know better but who obviously doesn’t--Chrispy says he's been bewitched and I entirely agree but that's another subject) could BELIEVE that he was obeying God by obeying JS and the rest of themselves.
Of course it's insane to us...we haven't been immersed in it year after year after year. Most of us got out of that mindset long ago...but these people haven't yet. Hopefully someone will print and mail parts of this thread to the CES leadership so they can begin to!
I am certain that CES folks in the outlying areas were unaware of all but just a minor rumbling going on here and there amongst them.
My prayer is that everyone in all areas of CES will become acutely aware of a major Humbling going on everywhere amongst them!!
It didn't start last April. It goes all the way back to Wierwille, and evolved in three stages.
Wierwille's Invisible Kool-Ade
Back when Raf was doing his "Actual Errors in PFAL" thread, I was studying closely the part of PFAL where Wierwille taught that Romans 9, 10 and 11 are addressed to Jews or Gentiles, but not to Christians. As I read what is actually written in those chapters, I was dumbfounded. In a section of PFAL supposedly teaching the importance of recognizing "to whom it is written", Wierwille used a passage of scripture as an example, and totally twisted "to whom it is written". Those chapters are NOT adressed to Jews or Gentiles. They are obviously addressed to Christians in the congregation at Rome who had come to Christianity from Gentile rather than Jewish backgrounds. Paul did NOT write that he was no longer a Jew since becoming a Christian. He used himself as a specific example to show that God had not rejected the Jews.
I was as outraged as I ever get. I couldn't see any way Wierwille could get it
SOOO wrong without being a deliberate, cynical con-man.
Then one day, I was studying the relation between the senses, the mind and the heart (as a result of an argument with Mike, believe it or not) and a number of things fell into place.
I believe the mind is the conscious, pro-active part of our mental activity, and the heart is the unconscious, re-active part. I also believe we program our attitudes of heart through the channels of thought in which we allow our minds to habitually run. "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also"; Matthew 6:21. Those things to which we habitually attach value in our minds assume the same values in our hearts.
That's why Jeremiah 17:9 says, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?". That's why "Every way of man is right in his own eyes..." (Proverbs 21:2) and "All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes..." (Proverbs 16:2).
Every thought and intent that comes out of a person's own heart seems right and innocent to that person, whether it actually is or not, because that person put those thoughts and intents into his own heart in the first place.
When Wierwille preached the truth about "to whom it is written", he did so because his heart told him it was the right and innocent thing to do. When Wierwille lied about "to whom it is written", he did so because his heart told him it was the right and innocent thing to do. When Wierwille drugged and raped harmless women in the motorcoach, he did so because his heart told him it was the right and innocent thing to do. Wierwille wasn't a deliberate, cynical con-man. He was delusional.
We cannot, CANNOT, CANNOT rely on our own hearts as any kind of standard for truth.
That's why we read in Hebrews 4:12, " The word of God is... ...a discerner [critic] of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
We have to take the thoughts and intents of our hearts to God's Word, and submit them to its criticism. And by "God's Word" I don't mean some cold, misappropriate reading of words on a page. We have to compare and contrast what we find God working by way of His Spirit in our minds, with what we find written in the Word. Where they agree, we find the truth established. Where they don't agree, we need to give it some more thought before jumping to a conclusion.
In their hearts, everyone involved in the CESpool wants to serve God. But they're taking polar opposite approaches, and each side is convinced it is serving God.
So rather than consider they might be wrong, they write the will of God to conform to their own actions and behavior. It's done subconsiously, though, a form of self-deception, right?
===
On a different note, if JAL really is reading this as a different screen name (as alleged by an earlier post), then hopefully this should help and he can pass it along to Mark:
You DO have a case of dueling prophecies here, right?
Well, doesn't the Bible refer to itself as a MORE SURE word of prophecy, more sure than the vision the apostles saw with Jesus in Gethsemane, more sure than actually HEARING the voice of God audibly?
Call me silly, but if the prophetic is unreliable (and there's no ifs about it: THE PROPHETIC IN CES/STFI REGARDING THE CURRENT CRISIS IS UNRELIABLE), then why don't you guys rely on something a bit more reliable?
We cannot, CANNOT, CANNOT rely on our own hearts as any kind of standard for truth.
Steve,
Outside the argument pertaining to corrupt leaders running a group, I don't entirely agree with this. It's a different matter when considering the followers in a group. The problems and abuses arising from our involvement with cults old and new - at least so far as I see it - stems from the fact of people NOT relying on their own hearts, their "gut", their minds. Shortly after leaving the Way ages ago, I realized that one of the reasons we became so screwed up and screwed over was because we were taught essentially to be afraid of our own minds, fear our own hearts. We were taught to:
Trust God.
Trust the Book.
Trust the teachings.
Trust the tapes.
Trust the leaders holding the Book.
Trust the leaders beneath them.
But dammit, DON'T listen to your own self.
People leaving cults and religions need to believe in themselves
for a change. To trust themselves. To toss aside all the religious "white noise"
if only for a while, if only to discover who they actually are, as opposed to
wasting their lives kissing the a$$es of both gods and men.
Ditto. Danny, that's a wonderful post! Sums up why Steve's post didn't "sit right" with me though I couldn't put my finger on it. If I had listened to my heart or at least looked into why I was having the "heart pains" that I was, I most likely wouldn't have ended up getting seriously involved with TWI. Instead, I trusted them and what THEY said the Bible said.... gee, kinda like that clip Dot posted in the Open Section. :blink:
I understand kinda what you're saying, Steve, but I think there's a balance there that's not being taken into consideration. Dunno what the answer is, but it's certainly not in trusting others with what's in my best interest. :)
Most of the PPs that I heard were nothing like the stuff we've seen here at GS. The 'corrective words' were those given further from the maddening crowd (pun intended). The closer you got to the inner circle the more of the harsh words you ‘lovingly received’.
Sounds so familiar -- newbies get nothing but bland messages, but the further initiated you are, the more spew you have to accept in the name of "loving reproof," "iron sharpeneth iron," etc. It's the Corps all over again.
When I got to HQ, I was expecting people to be more loving to each other, recognizing that everyone was a long-time believer with deep commitment and leadership ability, but instead it was worse than the outside world. It's one thing to feel you can dispense with formalities among those you are close to, but another when you think you can dispense with lovingkindness.
I remember the beginnings of what has become STFI's prophetic council, back around 1980 in TWI. Believers were enamored of spiritual things. After SIT and TIP, what was there? Revelation was cool, but it was such a subjective thing, kinda hard to share with others. Discerning of spirits was big, leaders seemed to be seeing devils everywhere, though I didn't see a lot of casting them out, which is what DOS was supposed to be for, we were taught.
The "manifestation of believing" wasn't taught very clearly, and again, it wasn't very flashy. Miracles and healing were definitely flashy, but chancy: you might get it wrong, and look like a schmuck.
Turning to the gift ministries, a lot of people were speculating about who might have the prophetic gift. Wierwille had apostle sewn up. Evangelist and teacher were good if you were comfortable as an orator, pastor if you weren't. But a prophet had the dual appeal of being real "spiritual," and standing out as a leader in the midst of a ton of people who were groomed as teachers.
I know this description sounds harsh, and I know this mindset didn't apply to everybody. But before you dismiss it, just remember, it was called "Power for Abundant Living," not "Grace for Abundant Living," or "Love for Abundant Living." People (myself included) got in because we wanted power.
Regards,
Shaz
And JAL, I spoke to you on the last go 'round on Greasespot. Perhaps you still know who I am. You performed my wedding the first time around. I'm telling you, it's time to stop and rethink this ministry thing, what it's doing to others, and what it's done to you.
(I don't even care about the Jlingo question any more)
Justpassingthrough, if you want to start a thread on Mike Tyson, it should be done out in the open forum 'proper'... not here in the CES section.
And really, it seems like the more you post here with your name calling, etc that you're really more interested in disrupting the thread than carrying on a discussion of CES/STFI/JALs Letter. And if you think there's no profit in discussing it/them, then don't post. But please allow those that wish to discuss it/them to do so.
So, we beat the Dead Horse of TWI to death (twenty years later), and now there is a new "dead horse" to beat to further "death", and that is CES/STFI. Sorry. It just sticks in my craw that such energy can be spent on something that you/we are not even involved with and cannot change....
Maybe a concert seeing Billy Bacon And The Forbidden Pigs, or, Los Lonely Boys Live would be a nice way to spend the evening? Hmm?
So, we beat the Dead Horse of TWI to death (twenty years later), and now there is a new "dead horse" to beat to further "death", and that is CES/STFI. Sorry. It just sticks in my craw that such energy can be spent on something that you/we are not even involved with and cannot change....
Maybe a concert seeing Billy Bacon And The Forbidden Pigs, or, Los Lonely Boys Live would be a nice way to spend the evening? Hmm?
Yeah... that's a good idea Lingoman...
Still there are folks being hurt and used by both of those organizations...
and still there are folks who hang around here who's emotions run high when things like this come to light...
and you know that you can't just tell people to 'get over it'...
If you're 'tired of the discussion' or 'through beating it' then go enjoy your concert...
As for me and my family? We're going to go watch "Jackass 2"!!!
]It just seems sad to me that this is repeating. In the Way during the 90's the same thing was happening, one year people would be "spiritually trustworthy" then all of a sudden they were "mark & avoid"
Later on I learned that such black and white thinking was toxic and unhealthy.
Sad to see this is now happening with CES/STFI, but glad to know I got out on my own this time aware of the unhealthy thinking that was occuring around me.
I really do pray for God's will in this situation. I'm not going to pretend to know what that is.
I agree, freeone, and welcome to Greasespot. Sad that a disagreement turns into a "spiritual battle," where one has to be right, and one has to be imfluenced by the devil.
I betcha that the inner circle became much more fearful about speaking their minds after what happened to E.
Thanks Garth, our minds are a terrible thing to waste. dmiller, my stomach hurts! Thanks, thanks thanks!
Speaking of spanking the monkey though, I might add a brief Word, on the offered sub-topic of boxers with lisps, namely Mike Tyson. (related Words of input are being collated and analyzed for truth and veracity and will be posted, divided according to their relation to the 3 Tiers of Authentic Rambling, and indexed according to status: "Agrees/Right" and "Disagrees/Wrong")
Although Tyson never achieves long lasting iconic status in the boxing world he does offer an interesting character study. Young boxer, held in check by the only person he really trusts, his trainer. He's roughly hewn but ferocious in the ring, as long as his trainer is alive. After his trainer dies, his life bounces around, and he never seems capable of fulfilling his potential, basically running rampant from one mistake to another. He can box, but he's never seem to be able to go for any kind of distance.
At points Tyson's life draws symapthy. His fractured upbringing, the hardship he faced due to his lisp, the street fights that began to shape who he would become later. Brought to the trainer Cus D'amato he starts to take shape - Iron Mike, the Baddest Man on the Planet.
His character faults and lack of control brings him down over time, step by step but there are points early on where it could be said he's being taken advantage of by others, promoted like prime beef to the highest bidders who aren't as interested in Mike the Man as they are Mike the Money Maker. In time though, his actions stand on their own. He is the man he is and he does the things he does. He's accountable and responsible for them.
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oldiesman
Happy New Year Raffy. :)
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therebutforgrace
Hi Justpassingthrough--what a great name..Thank God we are.....By the way, I'm a newbie also. These folks here...they really are wonderful. Stick with us.....and don't think you have to PM or post everything you think. (I often want to, so I'm learning alongside you.)
Would it be OK if I brought us back to a question Skyrider asked?
Who in the heck would "sign on" for a Prophetic Council to manage one's life
I was a CESer.
No CESer I know signed on for a PAC to manage their lives.
Any CESer reading this is now finding out, however, that their BOD had evolved into signing on for it. That can be quite a shocker, as Abigail so well said. I'm not shocked, because it's old news to me, but I wanted to knock people upside the head for quite a while when I first began to see it.
So...the BOD was signing on...but what the general CESers saw looked much better:
"Personal prophecy will be made available after the meeting". Most of the PPs that I heard were nothing like the stuff we've seen here at GS. The 'corrective words' were those given further from the maddening crowd (pun intended). The closer you got to the inner circle the more of the harsh words you ‘lovingly received’. And this went on for years.....little by little by little.....until EVERY BOD member came to BELIEVE what they were told about them. That these are warnings are from a gracious God and can ‘support’ JAL and E through the ‘spiritual attack’ on them because of their leadership role at the ‘forefront’ of what God is doing in the world.
People who haven’t previously been scorched by such evil might laugh off the ‘prophecies’.
I almost gaged typing the 'gracious God' sentence.
Most of us reading the prophecies here are not only repelled by them but also compelled to shout FOUL!!!!
But remember,..JAL and E’s ‘prophecies’ were absolutely to remain within the BOD and PAC and spouses. One of the reasons they ‘brought strong correction to’ E (read punished) was for was talking to one of her close friends about them...NOTE: E had only been married to the BOD for a few months, so she still had other friends.
So.....the CES BOD and PAC, like the frog in boiling water, had surrounded themselves with themselves and told themselves about themselves over and over and over and one of themselves told themselves how the enemy would use ‘attacks against the prophetic’ to stop themselves from being the ‘unique ministry’ God needed themselves to be.
It’s printed in the paper Mark, KA, Tom, Susan and Nancy wrote....."Unfortunately if those with hardened hearts do not repent they end up resisting the prophets and their messages and become resisters of the prophetic." This is the exact condemnation/accusation Elizabeth was under, and why, as she continued to insist more and more that those 'prophecies' were not of God, JS could continue to BELIEVE more and more that she had 'hardened her heart' more and more, and therefore JAL should divorce her. It's also why JAL (who should know better but who obviously doesn’t--Chrispy says he's been bewitched and I entirely agree but that's another subject) could BELIEVE that he was obeying God by obeying JS and the rest of themselves.
Of course it's insane to us...we haven't been immersed in it year after year after year. Most of us got out of that mindset long ago...but these people haven't yet. Hopefully someone will print and mail parts of this thread to the CES leadership so they can begin to!
I am certain that CES folks in the outlying areas were unaware of all but just a minor rumbling going on here and there amongst them.
My prayer is that everyone in all areas of CES will become acutely aware of a major Humbling going on everywhere amongst them!!
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onefinecustom
I pray for that also.
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Steve Lortz
Back to the topic at hand, CES is in a mess.
It didn't start last April. It goes all the way back to Wierwille, and evolved in three stages.
Wierwille's Invisible Kool-Ade
Back when Raf was doing his "Actual Errors in PFAL" thread, I was studying closely the part of PFAL where Wierwille taught that Romans 9, 10 and 11 are addressed to Jews or Gentiles, but not to Christians. As I read what is actually written in those chapters, I was dumbfounded. In a section of PFAL supposedly teaching the importance of recognizing "to whom it is written", Wierwille used a passage of scripture as an example, and totally twisted "to whom it is written". Those chapters are NOT adressed to Jews or Gentiles. They are obviously addressed to Christians in the congregation at Rome who had come to Christianity from Gentile rather than Jewish backgrounds. Paul did NOT write that he was no longer a Jew since becoming a Christian. He used himself as a specific example to show that God had not rejected the Jews.
I was as outraged as I ever get. I couldn't see any way Wierwille could get it
SOOO wrong without being a deliberate, cynical con-man.
Then one day, I was studying the relation between the senses, the mind and the heart (as a result of an argument with Mike, believe it or not) and a number of things fell into place.
I believe the mind is the conscious, pro-active part of our mental activity, and the heart is the unconscious, re-active part. I also believe we program our attitudes of heart through the channels of thought in which we allow our minds to habitually run. "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also"; Matthew 6:21. Those things to which we habitually attach value in our minds assume the same values in our hearts.
That's why Jeremiah 17:9 says, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?". That's why "Every way of man is right in his own eyes..." (Proverbs 21:2) and "All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes..." (Proverbs 16:2).
Every thought and intent that comes out of a person's own heart seems right and innocent to that person, whether it actually is or not, because that person put those thoughts and intents into his own heart in the first place.
When Wierwille preached the truth about "to whom it is written", he did so because his heart told him it was the right and innocent thing to do. When Wierwille lied about "to whom it is written", he did so because his heart told him it was the right and innocent thing to do. When Wierwille drugged and raped harmless women in the motorcoach, he did so because his heart told him it was the right and innocent thing to do. Wierwille wasn't a deliberate, cynical con-man. He was delusional.
We cannot, CANNOT, CANNOT rely on our own hearts as any kind of standard for truth.
That's why we read in Hebrews 4:12, " The word of God is... ...a discerner [critic] of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
We have to take the thoughts and intents of our hearts to God's Word, and submit them to its criticism. And by "God's Word" I don't mean some cold, misappropriate reading of words on a page. We have to compare and contrast what we find God working by way of His Spirit in our minds, with what we find written in the Word. Where they agree, we find the truth established. Where they don't agree, we need to give it some more thought before jumping to a conclusion.
More later.
Love,
Steve
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Raf
See if I get this straight:
In their hearts, everyone involved in the CESpool wants to serve God. But they're taking polar opposite approaches, and each side is convinced it is serving God.
So rather than consider they might be wrong, they write the will of God to conform to their own actions and behavior. It's done subconsiously, though, a form of self-deception, right?
===
On a different note, if JAL really is reading this as a different screen name (as alleged by an earlier post), then hopefully this should help and he can pass it along to Mark:
You DO have a case of dueling prophecies here, right?
Well, doesn't the Bible refer to itself as a MORE SURE word of prophecy, more sure than the vision the apostles saw with Jesus in Gethsemane, more sure than actually HEARING the voice of God audibly?
Call me silly, but if the prophetic is unreliable (and there's no ifs about it: THE PROPHETIC IN CES/STFI REGARDING THE CURRENT CRISIS IS UNRELIABLE), then why don't you guys rely on something a bit more reliable?
And that's addressed to both sides.
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socks
Can't help but think of the movie "Deliverance" Raf. It may be profetic, I'm not sure.
"You shore do have a perdy mouth".
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TheInvisibleDan
Steve,
Outside the argument pertaining to corrupt leaders running a group, I don't entirely agree with this. It's a different matter when considering the followers in a group. The problems and abuses arising from our involvement with cults old and new - at least so far as I see it - stems from the fact of people NOT relying on their own hearts, their "gut", their minds. Shortly after leaving the Way ages ago, I realized that one of the reasons we became so screwed up and screwed over was because we were taught essentially to be afraid of our own minds, fear our own hearts. We were taught to:
Trust God.
Trust the Book.
Trust the teachings.
Trust the tapes.
Trust the leaders holding the Book.
Trust the leaders beneath them.
But dammit, DON'T listen to your own self.
People leaving cults and religions need to believe in themselves
for a change. To trust themselves. To toss aside all the religious "white noise"
if only for a while, if only to discover who they actually are, as opposed to
wasting their lives kissing the a$$es of both gods and men.
Danny
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GarthP2000
Socks,
That's what I thought also. Only thing we need now are banjos.
Dmiller, if you'll do the honors?
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onefinecustom
Danny,
Sure wish I'd listened to my gut many times back then. I was so confused on the difference between...heart, head, God, man...Thanks!
:unsure: 
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Belle
Ditto.
Danny, that's a wonderful post! Sums up why Steve's post didn't "sit right" with me though I couldn't put my finger on it. If I had listened to my heart or at least looked into why I was having the "heart pains" that I was, I most likely wouldn't have ended up getting seriously involved with TWI. Instead, I trusted them and what THEY said the Bible said.... gee, kinda like that clip Dot posted in the Open Section. :blink:
I understand kinda what you're saying, Steve, but I think there's a balance there that's not being taken into consideration. Dunno what the answer is, but it's certainly not in trusting others with what's in my best interest. :)
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Danny
And Jesus said forgive them for they know not what they do.
the other danny
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shazdancer
therebutforgrace wrote
Sounds so familiar -- newbies get nothing but bland messages, but the further initiated you are, the more spew you have to accept in the name of "loving reproof," "iron sharpeneth iron," etc. It's the Corps all over again.When I got to HQ, I was expecting people to be more loving to each other, recognizing that everyone was a long-time believer with deep commitment and leadership ability, but instead it was worse than the outside world. It's one thing to feel you can dispense with formalities among those you are close to, but another when you think you can dispense with lovingkindness.
I remember the beginnings of what has become STFI's prophetic council, back around 1980 in TWI. Believers were enamored of spiritual things. After SIT and TIP, what was there? Revelation was cool, but it was such a subjective thing, kinda hard to share with others. Discerning of spirits was big, leaders seemed to be seeing devils everywhere, though I didn't see a lot of casting them out, which is what DOS was supposed to be for, we were taught.
The "manifestation of believing" wasn't taught very clearly, and again, it wasn't very flashy. Miracles and healing were definitely flashy, but chancy: you might get it wrong, and look like a schmuck.
Turning to the gift ministries, a lot of people were speculating about who might have the prophetic gift. Wierwille had apostle sewn up. Evangelist and teacher were good if you were comfortable as an orator, pastor if you weren't. But a prophet had the dual appeal of being real "spiritual," and standing out as a leader in the midst of a ton of people who were groomed as teachers.
I know this description sounds harsh, and I know this mindset didn't apply to everybody. But before you dismiss it, just remember, it was called "Power for Abundant Living," not "Grace for Abundant Living," or "Love for Abundant Living." People (myself included) got in because we wanted power.
Regards,
Shaz
And JAL, I spoke to you on the last go 'round on Greasespot. Perhaps you still know who I am. You performed my wedding the first time around. I'm telling you, it's time to stop and rethink this ministry thing, what it's doing to others, and what it's done to you.
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dmiller
Garth --Ask and ye shall receive.
(please notice -- at least one of these two is a monkey, and maybe both,
since they are BOTH conversing with each other.
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Tom Strange
I was gonna give you a sno-cone WB but didn't think you could hold it with your cloven hooves... !
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markomalley
Rascal:
Just an imho, fwiw, and remember that ymmv...
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Tom Strange
Can we get back to CES/STFI/JALs Letter?
(I don't even care about the Jlingo question any more)
Justpassingthrough, if you want to start a thread on Mike Tyson, it should be done out in the open forum 'proper'... not here in the CES section.
And really, it seems like the more you post here with your name calling, etc that you're really more interested in disrupting the thread than carrying on a discussion of CES/STFI/JALs Letter. And if you think there's no profit in discussing it/them, then don't post. But please allow those that wish to discuss it/them to do so.
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J0nny Ling0
So, we beat the Dead Horse of TWI to death (twenty years later), and now there is a new "dead horse" to beat to further "death", and that is CES/STFI. Sorry. It just sticks in my craw that such energy can be spent on something that you/we are not even involved with and cannot change....
Maybe a concert seeing Billy Bacon And The Forbidden Pigs, or, Los Lonely Boys Live would be a nice way to spend the evening? Hmm?
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waterbuffalo
I know, I'm pretty. Thanks, I'll just lap it up. Just lay it in the trough.
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Bramble
TWI wasn't twenty years ago for many of us. So glad you are all over it.
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Tom Strange
Yeah... that's a good idea Lingoman...
Still there are folks being hurt and used by both of those organizations...
and still there are folks who hang around here who's emotions run high when things like this come to light...
and you know that you can't just tell people to 'get over it'...
If you're 'tired of the discussion' or 'through beating it' then go enjoy your concert...
As for me and my family? We're going to go watch "Jackass 2"!!!
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freeone
]It just seems sad to me that this is repeating. In the Way during the 90's the same thing was happening, one year people would be "spiritually trustworthy" then all of a sudden they were "mark & avoid"
Later on I learned that such black and white thinking was toxic and unhealthy.
Sad to see this is now happening with CES/STFI, but glad to know I got out on my own this time aware of the unhealthy thinking that was occuring around me.
I really do pray for God's will in this situation. I'm not going to pretend to know what that is.
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onefinecustom
Welcome freeone...unfortunately this has been going on for a very long time with CES...just not brought out in the open. Thank God it finally is.
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shazdancer
I agree, freeone, and welcome to Greasespot. Sad that a disagreement turns into a "spiritual battle," where one has to be right, and one has to be imfluenced by the devil.
I betcha that the inner circle became much more fearful about speaking their minds after what happened to E.
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socks
Thanks Garth, our minds are a terrible thing to waste.
dmiller, my stomach hurts! Thanks, thanks thanks!
Speaking of spanking the monkey though, I might add a brief Word, on the offered sub-topic of boxers with lisps, namely Mike Tyson. (related Words of input are being collated and analyzed for truth and veracity and will be posted, divided according to their relation to the 3 Tiers of Authentic Rambling, and indexed according to status: "Agrees/Right" and "Disagrees/Wrong")
Although Tyson never achieves long lasting iconic status in the boxing world he does offer an interesting character study. Young boxer, held in check by the only person he really trusts, his trainer. He's roughly hewn but ferocious in the ring, as long as his trainer is alive. After his trainer dies, his life bounces around, and he never seems capable of fulfilling his potential, basically running rampant from one mistake to another. He can box, but he's never seem to be able to go for any kind of distance.
At points Tyson's life draws symapthy. His fractured upbringing, the hardship he faced due to his lisp, the street fights that began to shape who he would become later. Brought to the trainer Cus D'amato he starts to take shape - Iron Mike, the Baddest Man on the Planet.
His character faults and lack of control brings him down over time, step by step but there are points early on where it could be said he's being taken advantage of by others, promoted like prime beef to the highest bidders who aren't as interested in Mike the Man as they are Mike the Money Maker. In time though, his actions stand on their own. He is the man he is and he does the things he does. He's accountable and responsible for them.
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