I have around 5 or 6 PFAL type classes some audio some video. To me they are pretty much all the same for the most part with some minor changes. The CFF class is 5 segments each one consisting of 6 hours. It has several teachers with is a plus. one upside is the statement bolded in the syllabus Not Everything Bad That Happens in Your Life is Due to Your Own Personal Fear the downside is they still see believing as a law. I don't agree nor do the scriptures as far as I can see.
The intermediate class they have is the one I would recomend if any ,it is taught by Research Geek, there is a great appendix done by Geek and Catcup called Romans 14 The Ballanced Walk Of Love. The appendix's alone are worth the cost IMHO.
Because of the discussions going on concerning CES/STFI, this thread caught my attention.
I have some questions that ARE NOT pointed towards any one person, ARE NOT a judgement of anybody, and ARE NOT meant to be combative. The ARE, however, questions that I have learned to ask myself when I am entertaining thoughts about spiritual choices, fellowship choices, biblical learning choices, etc.
What is it about classes that is so attractive?
Why a twi spinoff?
What is one looking for from a class that one cannot get on one's own or some other way?
After the twi experience and experiences recorded here with offshoots, what is going on in one's life that makes that 'take a class' trigger start itching?
but if you indeed have your own personal Jesus and direct personal connection to God (which all those classes claim), why then would you need other people to read, interpret and explain things for you over and over?
Isnt that the holy spirits job? ---(the guide into all truth)
Because of the discussions going on concerning CES/STFI, this thread caught my attention.
I have some questions that ARE NOT pointed towards any one person, ARE NOT a judgement of anybody, and ARE NOT meant to be combative. The ARE, however, questions that I have learned to ask myself when I am entertaining thoughts about spiritual choices, fellowship choices, biblical learning choices, etc.
I'll give these a shot..............
What is it about classes that are so attractive?
For me they are attractive for a couple of reasons one because I have a desire to learn more about biblical matters so they are avenue to do that, there are others also these are only one. Sometimes it is not the class material directly but something else discovered while listening. The same thing happens here at times, where you will be reading a thread and something of interest comes up and sends you off to learn about what you have discovered. Could you have learned it away from the thread? Sure! Would you have thought to without the trigger? Probably not.
I also believe that classes are a way to get a maximum amount of information in a minimum amount of time, benefiting from the instructors knowledge. People take classes for a variety of things I took one sometime back for massage therapy. I could have struggled through a book on my own but why do that when you can have the benefit of a teacher. The other reason for me is that I still have on occasion people that want or need the information contained in them who sometimes are not readers or have problems reading books.
Why a twi spinoff?
Well fist I would disagree with the premise TWI spin-off it implies that TWI was the original from which it was spun from. The way class was a collection of items spun from teachers who were spun from theirs and so on…… I think what you are asking is why not a class from another denomination? A couple of reasons major doctrinal differences that I think influence their teaching direction many times. I have been a part of a few, there is always learning but it is a struggle to sift it all out from the BS, some would say the same of PFAL type classes and to some degree that is true. For me there is less to sift out more to take in I guess.
What is one looking for from a class that one cannot get on one's own or some other way?
Nothing, It is just the easier way for me to learn, it makes me sit without distractions and do what I set out to do, with a book I’ll get distracted and never finish it . As I said it offers the maximum information condensed into a short time frame from there I can expand if I choose to.
After the twi experience and experiences recorded here with offshoots, what is going on in one's life that makes that 'take a class' trigger start itching?
Truth is Truth it is not dependant on a group experience positive or negative. May I point out that people, me included learned some truth in the horribly abusive Catholic Church. For every bad experience here there is a good one somewhere else. One person loves Wal-Mart the next despises it, that’s life. Some, but not all of the experiences with groups also have to do with the person, what they allow and their state when they get involved. The experiences here have not been mine and I have and remain in contact with several, what you would consider offshoots. None are perfect, neither am I. In the case of CES the same choice that one would make with any group should have been done. Search the scripture and see if the things presented are there or not. That is each person’s responsibility; if you advocate that responsibility then it is a choice that you have made.
Taking a class has nothing to do with a trigger; it is an option to learn nothing more nothing less. And it is not always due to some thing going on in your life. It could be. It could not be, maybe one just wants to learn more about the Bible? Their life may be just fine,
Wow, Whitedove, I couldn't have answered better myself - ha! I didn't! You put my thoughts into words very nicely - thanks!
CW - you, another ex-way believer and myself sat and sang songs right out of a singalongtheway book not too long ago. I had a lovely time with that and see this as similar and potentially as enjoyable.
I think there's room for lots of fun and lots of growth in my life.
WD - I have heard of that fellowship. I'd heard it was Trimble, but was unaware it's that close to Smithville - wow, they're probably in my extended local calling plan even! I'm considering calling them and checking them out for myself. Do you have contact info you could pm me? If not, I'll get it. Thanks!
I'll PM you later Bow I'm off to work now. The fellowship is actually in Trimble. I just had lunch with Kenny the oither day he was in Topeka for his job.
Taking a class has nothing to do with a trigger; it is an option to learn nothing more nothing less. And it is not always due to some thing going on in your life. It could be. It could not be, maybe one just wants to learn more about the Bible? Their life may be just fine,
Lovey Dovey,
After a certain age, almost everything one does in life is a trigger response. Some people call it being set in one's ways. Other people call it personal style. Still others call it reliable. Even others call it leopards not changing their spots. (Edited right here! OMG! I originally said stripes!!!! I'm so dingy sometimes! LOL)
Triggers are neither good nor bad in and of themselves...they are simply shortcut responses to familiar territory. The problems usually lie in what particular shortcut one chooses. For example, a person who has money troubles and steals to solve those troubles is choosing one sort of shortcut response. Another person, however, who has money troubles and chooses to work an extra job to solve those troubles is choosing a different shortcut response. The trigger is the same: money troubles. The shortcut response is what is different. See?
As I said, in light of the whole CES/STFI mess, these questions came to my mind when I saw that a person who hasn't been out of twi for very long has questions about an offshoot class. Had this person not been involved in twi and down the path of classes and such, the questions would be...odd.
Anyway, anybody who had been involved in twi for more than 5 mins or so after taking piffle is totally overloaded with 'biblical knowledge', imo. Taking more classes when the basics are not mastered is like eating when not hungry imo. Why do it? (If I had the answer, btw, I wouldn't asking the question...or still be fat. :) )
Your responses are great responses...for those who were not deeply involved in a cult. But...
**********************
Bow,
Looking back on that particular week through the eyes of a professional, highly skilled therapist, I have come to understand why that week happened in my life at all...
And it wasn't all so much fun for me in the end...which reinforces my questions...imo.
Also, I had read your other post about offshoots and classes and stuff, so I was kinda cheating here in this thread...trying to answer both posts without answering in both threads. Maybe I should have said that.
Bow, you are braver than I. :) I get where you are coming from, especially where it concerns your daughter. I struggle with similar issues with my boys. But no way not how am I brave enough to check out an offshoot. I can't even get up the courage to attend services with the more traditional and widely accepted relgious organizations on any kind of regular basis.
If you do this, I would be very interested in how it goes for you - if you care to share.
Looking back on that particular week through the eyes of a professional, highly skilled therapist, I have come to understand why that week happened in my life at all...
And it wasn't all so much fun for me in the end...which reinforces my questions...imo.
Also, I had read your other post about offshoots and classes and stuff, so I was kinda cheating here in this thread...trying to answer both posts without answering in both threads. Maybe I should have said that.
CW - I'm thinking you really don't mean to open up this can of worms here in the Open Forum, do you? I could do without the insult-between-the -lines game. This thread is about CFF's Foundational class, not your personal problems from last summer that you forced into my life without my permission.
Yes, you were absolutely cheating, not just kinda cheating. I for one am not amused.
I posted my question here after having explained myself in detail in what I originally thought was an appropriate thread. After a day went by and it appeared to me that nobody noticed my post or eat least nobody commented, I figured it was because it was in the Soap Opera and people don't always look down there, I wrote this short post to ask exactly what I was looking for.
My question was has anyone taken CFF's foundational class and if so, did they have any comment? You can see I haven't edited the original post on this thread at all.
Instead of answering what I asked, you used all those qualifiers claiming you weren't doing exactly what you were doing and you've now admitted that you were answering my other post here as well as this one.
No, you haven't taken the CFF class, so no, you wouldn't have an answer that I'm asking for.
Is your opinion of my question valid? It would be if you were honestly trying to help me. I'm not sure that's your intent here. I suspect your intentions because of the last two encounters I've had with you. I would prefer to leave it at that and I request you leave me alone from here on out. I would also prefer you leave the GS community at large out of whatever it was that you've planned to lay on this thread.
I treated you with respect that you hadn't earned when you approached me in a private chat a few weeks back. I was kind to you - not friendly, I admit, but kind and even gracious. I accepted your apology and tried to take your questions of me seriously. You might show me that same kindness and not try to play any game of any sort with me. I'm not a willing playmate for you.
Abi - Yes, I absolutely will let you know what I end up doing and how it goes. At this point, I'm leaning toward buying one of their classes and checking it out.
These are not classes in the traditional pfal style. This isn't a matter of getting so many people together before the class can be scheduled. It's not a bunch of chairs strung in perfect symmetry. It's much less formal than all that.
I'll think more on it and let you know what I decide and how it goes.
I don't share your theory on triggers, nor do I see classes as a knee jerk reaction to fix some problem. in life. Granted they could be utilized that way but I personally have not seen that to be the case among exways. Master the basics ? What is that? Who has attained that level? I hope I am ever learning, which is why classes are a useful tool, for review, because we are old and forgetful, and because they may just have something that I may have not considered. Another plus they can keep you rooted in scripture so that one can not be fooled by unscriptural ideas and presentations. They can give you the means to make right biblical choices as opposed to flowing with the crowd and ending up in a mess years later. Each to their own I suppose.
CW - I'm thinking you really don't mean to open up this can of worms here in the Open Forum, do you? I could do without the insult-between-the -lines game. This thread is about CFF's Foundational class, not your personal problems from last summer that you forced into my life without my permission.
Yes, you were absolutely cheating, not just kinda cheating. I for one am not amused.
I posted my question here after having explained myself in detail in what I originally thought was an appropriate thread. After a day went by and it appeared to me that nobody noticed my post or eat least nobody commented, I figured it was because it was in the Soap Opera and people don't always look down there, I wrote this short post to ask exactly what I was looking for.
My question was has anyone taken CFF's foundational class and if so, did they have any comment? You can see I haven't edited the original post on this thread at all.
Instead of answering what I asked, you used all those qualifiers claiming you weren't doing exactly what you were doing and you've now admitted that you were answering my other post here as well as this one.
No, you haven't taken the CFF class, so no, you wouldn't have an answer that I'm asking for.
Is your opinion of my question valid? It would be if you were honestly trying to help me. I'm not sure that's your intent here. I suspect your intentions because of the last two encounters I've had with you. I would prefer to leave it at that and I request you leave me alone from here on out. I would also prefer you leave the GS community at large out of whatever it was that you've planned to lay on this thread.
I treated you with respect that you hadn't earned when you approached me in a private chat a few weeks back. I was kind to you - not friendly, I admit, but kind and even gracious. I accepted your apology and tried to take your questions of me seriously. You might show me that same kindness and not try to play any game of any sort with me. I'm not a willing playmate for you.
OK, I'm lost.
My only point in responding to an example YOU brought up was to show that just because something good happened in a nightmare doesn't preclude the whole thing from being a nightmare.
Using the example YOU used.
Need I say it again?
YOU brought up a situation to exemplify YOUR point.
All I did was remind you of where that example ended up.
Which is my point about this whole taking classes thing in the first place: just because a wizard or two blows fairy smoke out his/her whatever doesn't mean that he/she's magical, more knowledgeable, smarter or even on target with his/her babbling and bag of tricks.
Now whatever else you're running on about...
Paranoia will destroy ya. I'm not your enemy...and even if I were, I'm a pitiful enemy to engage...'cause wtf can I really do to you? Say things you don't like? If that's a deadly felony in process, call the gestapo.
**************************************
OK, Dove, we've reached that point where we disagree.
but if you indeed have your own personal Jesus and direct personal connection to God (which all those classes claim), why then would you need other people to read, interpret and explain things for you over and over?
Isnt that the holy spirits job? ---(the guide into all truth)
I wouldn't assume that anyone needs other people to "read, interpret and explain things...over and over." I don't know if that describes the contents of CFF's classes, because I only took one spinoff's class about 10 years ago and it wasn't theirs. Personally, I've had my fill of sitting in classes, but I do think they can serve a purpose. For me, the best thing about listening to a teaching or class is that another person's perspective can inspire me, challenge me, get me to question something in a way I might never have thought of.
But what I really want to address is the "own personal connection to God" part of your question, MStar. As I mentioned in the CES thread, I came to twi having already experienced the "personal prophecy" stuff. As Invis Dan pointed out, it was part of a "follow the spirit" movement. That movement was big in S. Calif in the late 60s. Everyone was always talking about "God led me here" and "God led me there" and "I don't feel led to do that," etc. These Christians sounded like they needed for God to tell them when to go to the bathroom and what to eat for breakfast.
It wasn't that different from twi in that many twi people thought they could get revelation on demand, 24 hours of every day. But for me, when I took PFAL, I was greatly relieved to see that there was some sort of consistent standard for truth other than my own imperfect ability to listen to God! It takes both, IMO, both an openness to God's still, small voice and enough knowledge of the Bible to keep one grounded and not orbiting out in la-la land. My observation has been that when those two get out of balance (too much emphasis on either one), trouble follows every time.
Anyway, I can see why bowtwi might be interested in taking a class. It doesn't mean she's screwed up or that something is going on in her life so her "trigger is itching" (sorry, CW, that's just so much armchair psychology to me). It means she's interested in taking a class. Period. I don't see what's so horrible about that. Bowtwi is obviously intelligent. She can listen to what's taught and decide if she buys any of it or not.
I had 17 years of taking classes and I've been out now 17 years. Maybe in another 17 I'll be ready to sit down and listen to another one. :D But I think if bowtwi wants to take CFF's class, that's great. And if you do, let us know if you enjoyed it.
BOWTWI, I think you can purchase the classes, tapes and all, to use as you see fit. I think that is a good departure from TWI's long-standing closed corporation methods. You can listen to them at your own leisure.
Some people have run the classes publically, and allow genuine discussion of the material.
But if you like straight chairs, you will have to string them yourself. :)
Anyway, I can see why bowtwi might be interested in taking a class. It doesn't mean she's screwed up or that something is going on in her life so her "trigger is itching" (sorry, CW, that's just so much armchair psychology to me). It means she's interested in taking a class. Period. I don't see what's so horrible about that. Bowtwi is obviously intelligent. She can listen to what's taught and decide if she buys any of it or not.
OK, I never said that anybody was unintelligent, screwed up or that wanting to take a class was horrible.
I asked some questions...
Questions that I said were coming from the current discussions concerning CES...
And later on stated that I was also responding to things that were written in another thread...
And made sure that it was known that I was not finger-pointing and made sure it was known that I don't have a clue as to much concerning these things in my own life...
Then I stated my opinionated responses to those questions.
Oh yeah...
I also stated that the questions were questions I have learned to ask myself.
Now if anyone is 'getting something' more than I have written (maybe a personal prophecy or a dream...?...OK...that was bad...but my sick sense of humor thinks it's funny), then get it if you must.
I didn't write it with ulterior motives or laced with some sort of secret meanings.
Something I have learned in life is that a thief thinks everybody is stealing from them, a liar thinks everybody is lying to them, an abuser thinks everybody is abusing them...
So if anybody thinks I've got ulterior motives or am lacing what I write with some sort of secret meanings...well...
It wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last time, and doesn't really matter in the scheme of things.
Ooops...
I said 'scheme'...
Quick, somebody! Figure out what I really meant! Then quickly tell me so that I'll larn to talk more better...
No, I wasn't directing anything at Bow. I did what I could think of doing to say so. I thought I did a good job explaining where my post was coming from.
There's a place in this thread where I say something about a wizard blowing fairy smoke out of his/her whatever.
Know where that came from?
My head.
When I think of taking classes offered by twi offshoots, I get this mental image of the Cheshire Cat, Alice, the Queen of Hearts, the Mad Hatter and the Wizard of Oz sitting around a hookah.
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likeaneagle
im considering my answer, as I think about the foundational classes I have had thus far.
PFAL approx. 40x
Wap 2x
CC foundational 2x
CFF foundational was the best.
Im basing this choice because of direction and content delivered.
I thought it was done well. I tend not to like to much fluff and more Word(verses).
Its been 4 yrs since,Ive had it. It is not exactly like PFAL, but does bring one to acknowleding that we have a Savior..
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WhiteDove
Bow
I have around 5 or 6 PFAL type classes some audio some video. To me they are pretty much all the same for the most part with some minor changes. The CFF class is 5 segments each one consisting of 6 hours. It has several teachers with is a plus. one upside is the statement bolded in the syllabus Not Everything Bad That Happens in Your Life is Due to Your Own Personal Fear the downside is they still see believing as a law. I don't agree nor do the scriptures as far as I can see.
The intermediate class they have is the one I would recomend if any ,it is taught by Research Geek, there is a great appendix done by Geek and Catcup called Romans 14 The Ballanced Walk Of Love. The appendix's alone are worth the cost IMHO.
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CoolWaters
Because of the discussions going on concerning CES/STFI, this thread caught my attention.
I have some questions that ARE NOT pointed towards any one person, ARE NOT a judgement of anybody, and ARE NOT meant to be combative. The ARE, however, questions that I have learned to ask myself when I am entertaining thoughts about spiritual choices, fellowship choices, biblical learning choices, etc.
What is it about classes that is so attractive?
Why a twi spinoff?
What is one looking for from a class that one cannot get on one's own or some other way?
After the twi experience and experiences recorded here with offshoots, what is going on in one's life that makes that 'take a class' trigger start itching?
Just these for now.
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mstar1
Good Questions Cool
and ones that I was also thinking
and again not to be combative----
but if you indeed have your own personal Jesus and direct personal connection to God (which all those classes claim), why then would you need other people to read, interpret and explain things for you over and over?
Isnt that the holy spirits job? ---(the guide into all truth)
just curious
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bowtwi
I simply asked if anyone had taken CFF's foundational class and had any comments.
The background leading up to this question is just that last weekend I listened to a CD
of a teaching by Kevin Gigou. I enjoyed it.
I always especially enjoyed Wayne Clapp's teaching and I recently learned that CFF
even has classes. It occurs to me that it might be interesting and even healthy to sit
through their foundational class and see what they've done differently than pfal.
I've considered taking a class called Alpha that the First Christian Church people have
mentioned. I understand it's free, with donations accepted, but not required.
It's not that I have any "take a class itch" triggering - I have a mind that thinks
one thought after another. Those thoughts led me to these thoughts.
I also have a 10-year-old daughter. I know that I haven't taught her very much
and am looking around to see what might be appropriate for her and I to study
together.
The reason I'm considering looking at CFF's work is I still respect Wayne Clapp,
Kevin Gigou, and Research Geek, as opposed to lcm or even vpw. That they're
involved with a twi offshoot isn't the point to me. Anywhere I might study could be
considered an offshoot, as I'm ex-way too.
Interesting that you bring up a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. That's
the subject I'm most interested in studying.
Yes, it would be wonderful if I'd take the time and energy to really get quiet,
pray for my understanding to be enlightened and then study Jesus from the
bible. I do believe God (or maybe Jesus, after all, I'm not sure who's doing what now)
would honor my request to teach me what I know. BUT, I've been out of twi for
a long time now and haven't really picked up my bible much and studied even less.
Because of my experiences with twi, I hesitate to do anything at all.
I'm considering that maybe I might be better off to start out with something that
someone I trust has already figured out, as my recollection is that whenever I
have done that, I get motivated to continue on and study more on my own.
I'm not moving to Tipp City.
Interesting answers to my questions. Thanks.
edited to remove about a page worth of spaces
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Tom Strange
Is CFF the same thing as CES/STFI?
I'm not up to speed on offshoot acronyms...
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WhiteDove
No they are not Tom
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WhiteDove
Bow there is a CFF group that lives just up the road from you in Smithville/Trimble.
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bowtwi
Wow, Whitedove, I couldn't have answered better myself - ha! I didn't! You put my thoughts into words very nicely - thanks!
CW - you, another ex-way believer and myself sat and sang songs right out of a singalongtheway book not too long ago. I had a lovely time with that and see this as similar and potentially as enjoyable.
I think there's room for lots of fun and lots of growth in my life.
WD - I have heard of that fellowship. I'd heard it was Trimble, but was unaware it's that close to Smithville - wow, they're probably in my extended local calling plan even! I'm considering calling them and checking them out for myself. Do you have contact info you could pm me? If not, I'll get it. Thanks!
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WhiteDove
I'll PM you later Bow I'm off to work now. The fellowship is actually in Trimble. I just had lunch with Kenny the oither day he was in Topeka for his job.
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CoolWaters
Lovey Dovey,
After a certain age, almost everything one does in life is a trigger response. Some people call it being set in one's ways. Other people call it personal style. Still others call it reliable. Even others call it leopards not changing their spots. (Edited right here! OMG! I originally said stripes!!!! I'm so dingy sometimes! LOL)
Triggers are neither good nor bad in and of themselves...they are simply shortcut responses to familiar territory. The problems usually lie in what particular shortcut one chooses. For example, a person who has money troubles and steals to solve those troubles is choosing one sort of shortcut response. Another person, however, who has money troubles and chooses to work an extra job to solve those troubles is choosing a different shortcut response. The trigger is the same: money troubles. The shortcut response is what is different. See?
As I said, in light of the whole CES/STFI mess, these questions came to my mind when I saw that a person who hasn't been out of twi for very long has questions about an offshoot class. Had this person not been involved in twi and down the path of classes and such, the questions would be...odd.
Anyway, anybody who had been involved in twi for more than 5 mins or so after taking piffle is totally overloaded with 'biblical knowledge', imo. Taking more classes when the basics are not mastered is like eating when not hungry imo. Why do it? (If I had the answer, btw, I wouldn't asking the question...or still be fat. :) )
Your responses are great responses...for those who were not deeply involved in a cult. But...
**********************
Bow,
Looking back on that particular week through the eyes of a professional, highly skilled therapist, I have come to understand why that week happened in my life at all...
And it wasn't all so much fun for me in the end...which reinforces my questions...imo.
Also, I had read your other post about offshoots and classes and stuff, so I was kinda cheating here in this thread...trying to answer both posts without answering in both threads. Maybe I should have said that.
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Abigail
Bow, you are braver than I. :) I get where you are coming from, especially where it concerns your daughter. I struggle with similar issues with my boys. But no way not how am I brave enough to check out an offshoot. I can't even get up the courage to attend services with the more traditional and widely accepted relgious organizations on any kind of regular basis.
If you do this, I would be very interested in how it goes for you - if you care to share.
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bowtwi
CW - I'm thinking you really don't mean to open up this can of worms here in the Open Forum, do you? I could do without the insult-between-the -lines game. This thread is about CFF's Foundational class, not your personal problems from last summer that you forced into my life without my permission.
Yes, you were absolutely cheating, not just kinda cheating. I for one am not amused.
I posted my question here after having explained myself in detail in what I originally thought was an appropriate thread. After a day went by and it appeared to me that nobody noticed my post or eat least nobody commented, I figured it was because it was in the Soap Opera and people don't always look down there, I wrote this short post to ask exactly what I was looking for.
My question was has anyone taken CFF's foundational class and if so, did they have any comment? You can see I haven't edited the original post on this thread at all.
Instead of answering what I asked, you used all those qualifiers claiming you weren't doing exactly what you were doing and you've now admitted that you were answering my other post here as well as this one.
No, you haven't taken the CFF class, so no, you wouldn't have an answer that I'm asking for.
Is your opinion of my question valid? It would be if you were honestly trying to help me. I'm not sure that's your intent here. I suspect your intentions because of the last two encounters I've had with you. I would prefer to leave it at that and I request you leave me alone from here on out. I would also prefer you leave the GS community at large out of whatever it was that you've planned to lay on this thread.
I treated you with respect that you hadn't earned when you approached me in a private chat a few weeks back. I was kind to you - not friendly, I admit, but kind and even gracious. I accepted your apology and tried to take your questions of me seriously. You might show me that same kindness and not try to play any game of any sort with me. I'm not a willing playmate for you.
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bowtwi
Abi - Yes, I absolutely will let you know what I end up doing and how it goes. At this point, I'm leaning toward buying one of their classes and checking it out.
These are not classes in the traditional pfal style. This isn't a matter of getting so many people together before the class can be scheduled. It's not a bunch of chairs strung in perfect symmetry. It's much less formal than all that.
I'll think more on it and let you know what I decide and how it goes.
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WhiteDove
Cool One
I don't share your theory on triggers, nor do I see classes as a knee jerk reaction to fix some problem. in life. Granted they could be utilized that way but I personally have not seen that to be the case among exways. Master the basics ? What is that? Who has attained that level? I hope I am ever learning, which is why classes are a useful tool, for review, because we are old and forgetful, and because they may just have something that I may have not considered. Another plus they can keep you rooted in scripture so that one can not be fooled by unscriptural ideas and presentations. They can give you the means to make right biblical choices as opposed to flowing with the crowd and ending up in a mess years later. Each to their own I suppose.
Now back to the question at hand................
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CoolWaters
OK, I'm lost.
My only point in responding to an example YOU brought up was to show that just because something good happened in a nightmare doesn't preclude the whole thing from being a nightmare.
Using the example YOU used.
Need I say it again?
YOU brought up a situation to exemplify YOUR point.
All I did was remind you of where that example ended up.
Which is my point about this whole taking classes thing in the first place: just because a wizard or two blows fairy smoke out his/her whatever doesn't mean that he/she's magical, more knowledgeable, smarter or even on target with his/her babbling and bag of tricks.
Now whatever else you're running on about...
Paranoia will destroy ya. I'm not your enemy...and even if I were, I'm a pitiful enemy to engage...'cause wtf can I really do to you? Say things you don't like? If that's a deadly felony in process, call the gestapo.
**************************************
OK, Dove, we've reached that point where we disagree.
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Linda Z
MStar asked:
I wouldn't assume that anyone needs other people to "read, interpret and explain things...over and over." I don't know if that describes the contents of CFF's classes, because I only took one spinoff's class about 10 years ago and it wasn't theirs. Personally, I've had my fill of sitting in classes, but I do think they can serve a purpose. For me, the best thing about listening to a teaching or class is that another person's perspective can inspire me, challenge me, get me to question something in a way I might never have thought of.
But what I really want to address is the "own personal connection to God" part of your question, MStar. As I mentioned in the CES thread, I came to twi having already experienced the "personal prophecy" stuff. As Invis Dan pointed out, it was part of a "follow the spirit" movement. That movement was big in S. Calif in the late 60s. Everyone was always talking about "God led me here" and "God led me there" and "I don't feel led to do that," etc. These Christians sounded like they needed for God to tell them when to go to the bathroom and what to eat for breakfast.
It wasn't that different from twi in that many twi people thought they could get revelation on demand, 24 hours of every day. But for me, when I took PFAL, I was greatly relieved to see that there was some sort of consistent standard for truth other than my own imperfect ability to listen to God! It takes both, IMO, both an openness to God's still, small voice and enough knowledge of the Bible to keep one grounded and not orbiting out in la-la land. My observation has been that when those two get out of balance (too much emphasis on either one), trouble follows every time.
Anyway, I can see why bowtwi might be interested in taking a class. It doesn't mean she's screwed up or that something is going on in her life so her "trigger is itching" (sorry, CW, that's just so much armchair psychology to me). It means she's interested in taking a class. Period. I don't see what's so horrible about that. Bowtwi is obviously intelligent. She can listen to what's taught and decide if she buys any of it or not.
I had 17 years of taking classes and I've been out now 17 years. Maybe in another 17 I'll be ready to sit down and listen to another one. :D But I think if bowtwi wants to take CFF's class, that's great. And if you do, let us know if you enjoyed it.
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Ham
BOWTWI, I think you can purchase the classes, tapes and all, to use as you see fit. I think that is a good departure from TWI's long-standing closed corporation methods. You can listen to them at your own leisure.
Some people have run the classes publically, and allow genuine discussion of the material.
But if you like straight chairs, you will have to string them yourself. :)
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CoolWaters
OK, I never said that anybody was unintelligent, screwed up or that wanting to take a class was horrible.
I asked some questions...
Questions that I said were coming from the current discussions concerning CES...
And later on stated that I was also responding to things that were written in another thread...
And made sure that it was known that I was not finger-pointing and made sure it was known that I don't have a clue as to much concerning these things in my own life...
Then I stated my opinionated responses to those questions.
Oh yeah...
I also stated that the questions were questions I have learned to ask myself.
Now if anyone is 'getting something' more than I have written (maybe a personal prophecy or a dream...?...OK...that was bad...but my sick sense of humor thinks it's funny), then get it if you must.
I didn't write it with ulterior motives or laced with some sort of secret meanings.
Something I have learned in life is that a thief thinks everybody is stealing from them, a liar thinks everybody is lying to them, an abuser thinks everybody is abusing them...
So if anybody thinks I've got ulterior motives or am lacing what I write with some sort of secret meanings...well...
It wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last time, and doesn't really matter in the scheme of things.
Ooops...
I said 'scheme'...
Quick, somebody! Figure out what I really meant! Then quickly tell me so that I'll larn to talk more better...
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Linda Z
CW, I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your "itching trigger" comment, but it sure seemed to to be directed at bowtwi, or at least implied.
I haven't engaged in that personal prophecy crap since about 1969, but by golly I think I feel one coming on!
Here it comes!
Ready?
God told me to tell you that He loves you.
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CoolWaters
Oh chit! LOL Good one. You got me. LOL
No, I wasn't directing anything at Bow. I did what I could think of doing to say so. I thought I did a good job explaining where my post was coming from.
There's a place in this thread where I say something about a wizard blowing fairy smoke out of his/her whatever.
Know where that came from?
My head.
When I think of taking classes offered by twi offshoots, I get this mental image of the Cheshire Cat, Alice, the Queen of Hearts, the Mad Hatter and the Wizard of Oz sitting around a hookah.
To me that's funny, funny, funny.
Well, it wasn't so funny to somebody else.
::shrug:: What can a person do?
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excathedra
i'd rather walk on the new jersey turpike blindfolded than take another bible class but that's just me
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