If you decide to just forgo all of it, I want to hug you. I want to put your head on my lap and sing you sweet songs of joy. I want to tell you how thankful I am for your life and I want to evetually say good-bye.
Your post held wisdom of your own life and an understanding of how the pieces all came together. You have a daughter who will carry you forward into her children and your grandchildren. You have built much.
I love you. I wish I had a magic wand.
Please continue to share as you offer much with your personality and straight up truth.
Forever hugs
Words seem weak to offer. Peace in all your decisions
This saddens me...to hear one of our own like this. I don't know if you have tried naturopathic methods or not, but maybe you have. We love you here at GS.
Thank you all. I wasn’t looking for tribute, or even support, but I appreciate your kind words, thoughts, and prayers more than I know how to express.
Regarding questions about what I might want to discuss, I don’t know yet—possibly not much. I wasn’t sure at first that I wanted to say anything at all. I decided to for a few reasons.
1) I didn’t want to just disappear without saying anything.
2) A few times recently, I’ve started to post about something completely unrelated to illness or death, but noticed that my perspective and tone were noticeably different than in the past, enough so that some explanation might be in order. Rather than sidetrack things with an explanation, I just didn’t post. I figured that if I came out and said what was going on, I could avoid sidetracking other threads, should I choose to post on them. If I do, I hope that others will interact with me as they normally would.
3) I’ve noticed that people I’ve talked to in person about my illness or death are usually very uncomfortable. I often find myself trying to make them feel more comfortable, so that we can act more normally together. With impending death in the air, that’s not completely possible, but I prefer it. I began thinking that an online discussion might help some folks be more comfortable in such situations in real life.
4) Some people I’ve talked to have questions that they may or may not feel free to ask. It may seem odd, but what made me finally decide to post about my death was someone asking me “Are you afraid?” I’m not. I have some concerns about some of the things I’ll face leading to death, but at least for now, I’m not afraid of death itself.
Dude, I am extremely impressed with your ability to bring this to us here. It is a subject too often ignored until time has gotten away from us. Thank you, and I join others in wishing you all that you hope for, and more than you dream for.
Having dealt with some close people who were aware of their impending "change of address" (my mother's choice of words), I would like to recommend that you consider in-home hospice care. The people from hospice were wonderful for my mother as well as us survivors'.
Their care to make things as comfortable as possible, to answer our most in depth questions, to follow up and ask, months later, if we had any new concerns, were just a few of the things that made me feel so proud to have known them.
Most Hospice programs I know of are quite skillful at helping people prepare and handle death no matter their religious, non-religious, or even anti-religious leanings. Hospice personel are legally allowed to honor things like Health Care Directives (Living Wills), while I am told that EMT's on ambulances are not, should that situation arise
Lastly, please if you haven't done so already, complete a Health Care Directive and have it witnessed and copied for your oncologist and other health professionals as well as your daughter and other support people. It will aide them in making sure your wishes are followed through concerning what care you are to receive in specific circumstances. I recently used a computer program called Willmaker Plus 2006 to do a couple of these for myself and a relative. It was thorough in my opinion.
Be at peace, wonderful peace, its my hope for you.
something ive found that helps a person and community navigate such places
is a practice of compassionate inquiry...and asking potently free and freeing questions
...the kind with no correct answer
or no obligation to answer at all
and what it might look like for us, perhaps,
(given what i glean from what you have written)
is if we ask things such as...
"how might we find out what kinds of things you would like to discuss?"
"how you can imagine discussing them?"
"do you have questions you would like the community to ask?"
or "how might we proceed with this strange new virtual kind of community conversation?"
etc, etc...
cuz simply asking these open kinds of questions into a circle can draw out our deeper wisdom and intuition
and imo, there is one helluva lot to those 4 insights you have already given us to draw from
and so i guess i am just pointing to what i understand to be a treasure trove of tips of the ice-berg kinds of conversations that will indeed teach us all
and i'm not paying tribute or anything
though in my studies, we have a saying that "the dying are our greatest spiritual teachers"
which i find to be true from both religious and rational points of view
as you seem to know, there can be an astonishing value to all this, in spite of the outcome
as if there is something universally sacred about the "liminal space" that is evoked
as our priorities are stripped and shift dramatically, with or without our consent
and so i am curious about how we might help us become more comfortable
and able to be ordinary with you
to whatever depth and degree you invite
so you can say what you find to say before disappearing
even if it turns out to be years from now
anyway...i hope i am making sense
and i hope i have not overstepped bounds for anyone
A few people have sent me PMs with phone numbers, in case I want to talk. I appreciate their hearts, but I have people to talk with and be with, whenever I want. I really am okay, as much as someone in my physical condition can be.
Are you pursuing hospice resources in your area? We've had great experiences with the local civic hospice foundation, though I've heard others that used private hospice providers didn't have such a great experience. In our case the service was free. Besides the care they provide, they had some good reading material on death that helped all of us in preparation for the inevitable.
It occurs to me that some folks here at GS might wish to discuss various topics associated with death, whether our own or others. I took me a while to decide to post this and I don’t yet know what I might like to post or how far I’d like to delve into this, but I’d be interested in reading what others have to say and willing to respond straightforwardly to any comments or questions, including personal ones. (They won’t offend me and if something does come up that I don’t want to get into, I’ll politely say so.)
I’m not a theist, so I probably won’t be interested in delving too deeply into Biblical or religious discussions, but I don’t consider them completely off limits for myself and I wouldn’t dream of suggesting any topical limits for others. I would, however, appreciate it if anyone who might be so inclined would avoid trying to convince me to accept their religious beliefs. I don’t pray but I understand that some will want to pray for me and I appreciate the heart behind that. Also, I won’t be looking for pity or comfort, but for good conversation that hopefully can get past some of the discomfort that seems to hinder such discussions. I don’t know where this will lead, or how long I’ll be able to post. Except for some severe headaches that I can control with pain medication, I feel pretty good right now and hopefully will for some time to come. I may not post for a few days here and there, but if I go for more than a week or two without posting, I’ll probably not be back.
A few things: You said you found your perspective has changed which is understandable. Can you elaborate on how, both at home and here?
A request: IF she's so inclined, would your daughter be so kind as to give a death announcement here on the 'Spot? Doubtless, people will comment and she might find them worth reading. Again, if she's so inclined.
LG - Just talk - tell us what you want to say - if anything at all.
I for one will listen and not comment unless you invite a comment. I can't be there to just be quiet and let you have a peaceful moment with another person in the room, but I can allow you to just BE.
I say we let LG be HIM. Let this thread be about HIM and what he wants and needs.
If anyone wants to know my thoughts about this - PM me and I'll tell you in private.
Dooj, here's LG's original request. I don't think we can go wrong.
I took me a while to decide to post this and I don’t yet know what I might like to post or how far I’d like to delve into this, but I’d be interested in reading what others have to say and willing to respond straightforwardly to any comments or questions, including personal ones. (They won’t offend me and if something does come up that I don’t want to get into, I’ll politely say so.)
Evan - Maybe I'm dense. Maybe I just have too many X chromosomes, (as in two.) I wasn't responding to YOUR post as much as I was feeling the sense of the thread.
I'll just forego posting anymore on this thread and just read.
I can't think of anything better than's been said, LG. You characterize the best we could ever hope to be, posting here and allowing us to be here with you.
I hope and pray you're here for a lot longer than is expected. I hope to see you again, however it is. No requests, brother but maybe a little candle in the window here - whenever that day should come, later than sooner I hope, if you should come to find out we've all got our panties in a wad the wrong way about life, and you can do anything to pass it back, we could sure use the help.
You're an honorable man. God be with you brother! I look forward to reading anything you have to say here.
well, from my recent experience with recent family deaths, it is good you don't have people playing up to you to try to get your assets. You have family, you have only genuine concerns for family, and they for you, remaining. That seems so much richer than some uncles I have , where everyone was kissing up to impress them, after never really caring about them. it can be oh so ugly.
it is good you have the time you have, George. I'd still like some of those unapproved cures to work. I just spoke to a cousin's wife that was told she would die but is back as strong as ever. But in any case you have good people with you now. I hope you throw out some of your insights ... it seems some of us never really get focused till nearly too late.
I guess I'm just trying to stir up some thoughts ...
I'll be receiving hospice care. I'll ask my daughter about a death announcement. I want to take a little time before I elaborate on perceptive change. I honestly haven't given it much thought, except to notice it.
Doojable,
I didn’t need or even want anything in particular when I started this topic, except to let folks know what’s going on, rather than just disappearing one day. Beyond that, anything’s fine by me. I may not have much more to say on this thread, unless someone prompts me with a question or comment. If anyone does, that’s great. On the other hand, if this thread drops off the front page, I’m fine with that, too.
All: I don’t spend my days dwelling on death, especially not emotional, psychological, or spiritual aspects of it. I am spending lots of time trying to close out my affairs. I don’t mind discussing death here at GS, but I come here because I enjoy reading and posting about all the other topics of interest, along with all the other wonderful people here. Now that I’ve broken this news, I’d like to try to resume, as much as possible, my more normal style of participation. I’m not saying I want to cut off this topic. I just don’t want to dwell too much on it.
All: I don’t spend my days dwelling on death, especially not emotional, psychological, or spiritual aspects of it. I am spending lots of time trying to close out my affairs. I don’t mind discussing death here at GS, but I come here because I enjoy reading and posting about all the other topics of interest, along with all the other wonderful people here. Now that I’ve broken this news, I’d like to try to resume, as much as possible, my more normal style of participation. I’m not saying I want to cut off this topic. I just don’t want to dwell too much on it.
LG -- I hear that. Working at a group home, I try to get *my guys* out to do stuff as much as possible. Invariably -- when we are at a store in the mall, or a coffee shop, or whatever, the folks in the store figure out that my clients are disabled (NOT a hard thing to do), and automatically assume that they can not answer questions for themselves.
The clerk (or whomever), realizes I am "the staff" for them,
and ask me what they need.
I tell the clerk -- "Ask them. Not me."
The consternation on their face is something to behold.
I can just see them thinking "WHAT!!! Me talk to someone like that?"
Total embarassment, total confusion, and totally flustered.
And when they do speak to my clients -- it never fails ---
And they speak v--e--r--y s--l--o--w--l--y, and V--E--R--Y L--O--U--D--L--Y.
I tell the clerk -- "Hey -- we're not deaf. Can you speak a little more quietly here?"
Then they are totally embarrassed, and sometimes I let them off the hook by saying --
"It's ok. Really it is. Now what did you want to know?"
(Actually -- I had to *dress down* a doctor, who came to our house to evaluate one of the clients.)
He spoke so LOUDLY, I immediately interrupted him to ask if he had some good drugs with him,
that would cure the headache I was getting from the volume of his voice.
(I didn't *let him off the hook* -- he should have known better).
Point is (I guess) -- I'd like to aplogize if I came off sounding like a *clerk* to you.
Thank you for reminding me that some folks accept their situation in life.
Accepting it, living with it, and dealing with it --regardless of what others might assume.
I know *my guys* live with their disabilities, understand that they are *different*,
but they like to be treated as if they were normal folks. I do my best to see that happens.
It's been about 22 plus years since we've seen each other and you may not remember me. This is my first post here at greasespot from Irving Texas. I don't know where you are now. So this is simply a "walk-down-memory lane" and nothing more than that. I write only because I wanted you to know the impression you left with me, and I'm sure countless others through the last two decades plus a couple more.
I remember you. I remember your daughter, Lisa, and Dee and her son, Chris. Even if you don't know who I am and even if you don't recall my name (Gail M.) or our visits to each other's homes, it's fine with me. I'm ok with that, perfectly. My purpose in writing is to tell you what a awe-inspiring impression you made on me as a father and as a family man.
You see, I had already had three grown kids when your daughter was a toddler. So I had lots of experience with children and their abilities, what was the norm, or the average behavior of children your daughter's age. To say that she was "gifted" was an understatement! She was so smart, so far superior and above the average. She literally blew me totally away. She knew her alphabet and all the sounds before most babies learned to say much more than "Momma, Dadda", etc. She was reading as a toddler. Reading books, reading the cereal boxes, reading from everything. She was a brilliant child with an incredible attention span. And that's putting it mildly. I know because I have a gifted Grandaughter, and her Dad, my Son, Daniel was gifted also. Only I didn't know it back then when he was a child because "gifted" was never mentioned back in the 60s. I worked in a Roman Catholic Rectory for eleven years in Elmira, NY before coming to Texas. I worked with the children in the Polish Catholic school next door to the rectory where I worked as bookkeeper. My Aunt taught there in first grade and I knew her curriculum for the first and second grades. Lisa was doing that work when she was only two to three years old.
You and Dee were wonderful, loving, perfect parents. You were patient and very strict. And as a result, your children were the best behaved children I have seen to this day. That includes my three kids, and they all were very well behavied as well. We had ministry meetings that lasted for hours and hours and your children never, never misbehaved. When we prayed, they prayed. When we talked they sat and either listened quietly or played quietly by themselves. It's was amazing to me. When the teachings were going on, I watched your children. When prayers took place, I watched your children. When we ate and socialized, I watched your children. And I watched you and Dee too. What a family group you all were. I admired you tremendously. You all had great love and patient understanding and it showed in your children. I was more attentive to watching your family than paying attention to the doings going on in class.
I could not take my eyes off your amazingly, well-mannered children.
So, no matter what happened later in your lives, I'm happy to know you raised your daughter as a single parent and that you have a close and loving relationship with her. I'm so very proud of you as a man, as a Father, as a human being. And I praise you for making friends again with Dee. It speaks volumes about your loving character, still. Most people are too bitter to heal those wounds. You have a gift too, a generous gift.
I'll keep reminiscing here because I'm not going to discuss anything you mentioned you wished to avoid.
Perfect for me, as my wish is just to walk down memory lane with you and perhaps to shed some light on things you may have forgotten. Memories are precious to me and I'm thankful I met you and your family.
I did not know what happened to you. No one in our Irving group knew either. Last I knew you and Dee sold all your belongings and packed up for Ohio, but that you did not go to the WOW field. We all lost track of your family after that. I don't know if you ever came back to Irving.
I went to Ohio that year too. It must have been around 1985 or thereabouts. I drove my large baby-blue 1986 T-bird with a 460 hp engine (gorgeous vehicle) and I took with me Susanne B., Pam F. and her two blond teenage daughters, Cheri and Desiree'. (I understand Pam passed away a couple years ago in the Carolinas.) Bill H. was our leader back then; he was a tall, good-looking, dedicated. young man who had a window washing business around Irving. He did a good job as a leader. My group was later led by Wayne F. Wayne was the only leader with enough loving compassion to keep the rest of us from hiring a hit-man to get rid of Gil L. I got in much trouble once for telling him he was "intimidating". (God knew that was the truth). I didn't go to some affair where you burn little notes in a fire place, and he was reaming me out about it. I told him my daughter was moving that weekend and Steve K and I (we were dating then) had only one evening to shampoo her carpet so she could get her deposit back. It didn't serve as a good explanation to Gil and he continued to prepare to "burn-me-at-the-stake" so to speak. I told him my kids came first and they always would. Maybe not first before God of course, but first before a ministry meeting of any kind, anywhere. He later held his witch-hunt with the entire twig suggesting I was possessed. He was a real trip.... a bad trip. I always joked with others that I thought he missed his vocation and that he should have been a guard in a penitentiary. Funny thing was that, many years later, I heard he became a warden in some prison. So, I definitely called that one correctly. It was so obvious that he missed his calling. Gil chased off Robert (Bob) LaP. (Grand Prairie group), originally from New Hampshire. Bob left all his belonging at my house, including his bible and Driver's License, and in total defeat and dispair, hitch-hiked with nothing but the clothes on his back, and returned to NH. He was the best "witnesser of the word" I ever met. He would talk the word to anyone, anywhere and he always did it with great joy, enthusiam and and a smile on his face. It was a shame and a sin to crush him the way Gil did. I've tried to reach him for decades but failed.
Some of the other folks in our area were: Deb & Chris R. from Grand Prairie. They sang and he played guitar. They are still in Texas in a wonderful church group that blesses them. Then there was Darlene & David R. with two kids, Sammy and Danny and they all live in New Mexico now. David's brother married my daughter, Diane and they have a 17 year old girl, Stephanie. Then there was a lovely young girl, Alice L.
and of course the beloved Wayne F. who everyone loved and will never forget who moved to Houston, then California then back to his hometown in Alabama. The was a young, large girl named Suzanne who lived in the same group with Bill H. I don't know where she went. The Suzanne B was married to Richard B. a paleontologist who worked for Mobile oil. She came to twig, he didn't. She was originally from New England, a real "Lady" with class and good breeding. They eventually had two boys who were home-schooled and are now in college. Then there was Cookie B and Richard B, married with a son named Ritchie. They originally from NY and before that, Porto Rico. Cookie and Richard are now married to other fine spouses. Richard and his wife, Emily are heavily involved with a very loving church group out west near N. Ft. Worth.
Steve K and I terminated our relationship and he married someone in south Irving. That was more than 15 years ago but I am still in close touch with his Mom, his Aunt & Uncle, his sisters, and his daughter who just had her 3rd child. Although I haven't heard from Steve K in 15 years, I love all his family dearly. I've even visited his Mom and Dad in N.C. with two different boyfriends over the years and when I go to Georgia to visit my son, I've spent time with his Mom and Dad, sisters, and his Aunt and Uncle...all loving people.
I have been with Lee, my companion for over 12 years and he treats me with great respect and tenderness. We live in my house, the same one, on Goodyear Street in Irving. I'm still moving around (although not still kicking much) and age is fast catching up with me. I have way too many thoughts on my demise and hope dearly that I make it at least to enjoy a little retirement and some traveling. I'm pretty much a hermit by choice. I watch too many movies and don't get any exercise other than one week a year. I'm happy at home knowing Lee and my children do love me. I need to love myself a bit more and take better care of myself. I know that I'm not going to get an "jewels-in-my-crown" watching TV all the time, but I have helped Lee come to the knowledge of God and I believe he is born again of the spirit. I've tried to set him an example in loving my neighbor as myself.
So, my dear friend George, it is with great joy to me that I've found you and been able to chat with you, (although one-sided), bearing all the news I can think of without going over the limit of post words.
I think Lisa would enjoy having all these letters from folks who both know and have never met you. Take pictures and share a journal with her. When I thougth I was dying from a 16 pound tumor I had removed, I wrote notes and letters to everyone. Thank you for sharing with me and I hope my sharing with you has benefited and blessed your heart in some way. Remember you are remembered by many and loved by all.
Give my love to Lisa and Dee and all who may remember me. My picture from back then is attached.
Enjoy your Christmas and New Year with all the joy you can muster. As my daughter says, "let's make memories".
How nice to hear from you, Gail! I do remember, but not with such detail. You must have an excellent memory, kept journals, or both.
“I don't know where you are now.”
A little town called Commerce, 65 mi. NE of Dallas.
“I remember your daughter, Lisa, and Dee and her son, Chris.”
I hadn’t mentioned Chris, but only for the sake of brevity. I loved him as my own and, as far as either of us was concerned, I was his father for ten years. I’d have happily continued in that relationship, and raised him along with Lisa, but of course, I couldn’t. That broke my heart. For several years, my only knowledge of Chris came through Lisa. Lisa and I spent a few hours with him about twelve years ago, when he and his mom came to Texas to see Lisa, but other than that, we had almost no contact. We had a very nice, long phone conversation recently, though, and will likely do so again. He’s had some difficult times, but seems to be doing okay, and I’m glad about that.
“You and Dee were wonderful, loving, perfect parents. You were patient and very strict. And as a result, your children were the best behaved children I have seen to this day. That includes my three kids, and they all were very well behavied as well. We had ministry meetings that lasted for hours and hours and your children never, never misbehaved. When we prayed, they prayed. When we talked they sat and either listened quietly or played quietly by themselves.”
We were far from perfect, but we did our best. Because of stories I’ve read here about harsh, abusive discipline of children, I want to clarify some things for others. We were strict about their behavior, in that we required good manners and didn’t let them run wild or disrupt things, but we didn’t make them sit like robots, either. We always provided for their quiet entertainment. As you noted, we allowed them to play (or read) during meetings. Also, if one of them just couldn’t handle it, Dee or I would take them outside. When we were at meetings but the meetings weren’t actually “in session,” we allowed them more freedom, and even more in other settings.
“I did not know what happened to you. No one in our Irving group knew either. Last I knew you and Dee sold all your belongings and packed up for Ohio, but that you did not go to the WOW field. We all lost track of your family after that. I don't know if you ever came back to Irving.”
I’m not sure if your time-line is off a little here, or if I’m just misunderstanding the time correlation between this and what you write below, much of which preceded this. We didn’t go to Ohio. We moved to Garland. I don’t want to get into details, but we needed to do what we did. Some time later, I got a job in Austin and we moved to the Hill Country. We had some very good years, but some problems arose that led to divorce. After that, I moved to Commerce, because it was a good place for me to raise Lisa.
“So, my dear friend George, it is with great joy to me that I've found you and been able to chat with you, (although one-sided), bearing all the news I can think of without going over the limit of post words.”
How nice to hear from you, Gail! I do remember, but not with such detail. You must have an excellent memory, kept journals, or both.
I remember a little, but not near as well as Gail. It seems you lived near us, but you had kids and I didn't know what to do with kids ... LOL I'm thinking you ran the fellowship that had some other kids as well, or maybe it was Wayne after he came down. I think you were also taking classes at the time. It's all pretty foggy to me. I left 6 months after Seargent Gil arrived on the scene and ended up in New Orleans for 15 years or so.
We had some doubts about twi even in Dallas, I wish I'd shared more with everyone, but I didn't know much then. It looks like you figured it out pretty quick.
That is sad news about Pam. It is a shame about Gil and Bob LaP. When I think of Bob I am reminded of Charlie Treemendous Jones ... he just seemed always enthused. I still have a little table he made me for fellowships. Gil did more more for Bob and others than I ever did, since he probably chased more away from twi.
I remember the other George that worked for Dover elevator. I still quote him on his "Do it over Dover" line. :) It seems Chris and ? also homeschooled in Garland. Suzanne was a teacher and homeschooled her kids as well, I forget if she had moved over to the Garland area. Those were some good folks. (Suzanne, if you read this, I never thought of you as "large" but as very pretty LOL)
Gail just reminded me of some of those things, so I thought I'd throw in my memories. I think I was just wasting time while you were getting educated, working and raising a family. Congrats on what you put into and got out of your years. Hopefully you have more than they say left ahead.
I'm thinking you ran the fellowship that had some other kids as well, or maybe it was Wayne after he came down. I think you were also taking classes at the time. It's all pretty foggy to me. I left 6 months after Seargent Gil arrived on the scene and ended up in New Orleans for 15 years or so.
I led a fellowship in Irving, which Wayne took over after he graduated from the Corps. I had spoken with Wayne a few times when he was a WOW in Grand Prairie during his interim year, and I liked him. I was supporting a family of four, trying to prepare for a more secure financial future, and thought highly of Wayne, so I was all for him taking over. We continued to meet at my place. That went well, but Gil, the first and only “Corps Nazi” I had anything to do with in TWI, had a definite negative influence (to put it mildly) on the area in general and many individuals.
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Dot Matrix
George
I too have enjoyed your posts. I have loved your honesty and reason.
I read Too Gray Now's post and I hope you give it a shot.
I worked at a health food store and we were often asked about cancer. The one book and treatment (the doctor for whom I worked) suggested was
CANCER by Dr. Rath
http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/NHC/can...r_solutions.htm
http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/
The pharmacutical companies hate him ... that just helps me to read
This was also suggested
http://www.essiacinfo.org/
If you decide to just forgo all of it, I want to hug you. I want to put your head on my lap and sing you sweet songs of joy. I want to tell you how thankful I am for your life and I want to evetually say good-bye.
Your post held wisdom of your own life and an understanding of how the pieces all came together. You have a daughter who will carry you forward into her children and your grandchildren. You have built much.
I love you. I wish I had a magic wand.
Please continue to share as you offer much with your personality and straight up truth.
Forever hugs
Words seem weak to offer. Peace in all your decisions
I will be praying
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Eagle
LG,
This saddens me...to hear one of our own like this. I don't know if you have tried naturopathic methods or not, but maybe you have. We love you here at GS.
Eagle
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LG
Thank you all. I wasn’t looking for tribute, or even support, but I appreciate your kind words, thoughts, and prayers more than I know how to express.
Regarding questions about what I might want to discuss, I don’t know yet—possibly not much. I wasn’t sure at first that I wanted to say anything at all. I decided to for a few reasons.
1) I didn’t want to just disappear without saying anything.
2) A few times recently, I’ve started to post about something completely unrelated to illness or death, but noticed that my perspective and tone were noticeably different than in the past, enough so that some explanation might be in order. Rather than sidetrack things with an explanation, I just didn’t post. I figured that if I came out and said what was going on, I could avoid sidetracking other threads, should I choose to post on them. If I do, I hope that others will interact with me as they normally would.
3) I’ve noticed that people I’ve talked to in person about my illness or death are usually very uncomfortable. I often find myself trying to make them feel more comfortable, so that we can act more normally together. With impending death in the air, that’s not completely possible, but I prefer it. I began thinking that an online discussion might help some folks be more comfortable in such situations in real life.
4) Some people I’ve talked to have questions that they may or may not feel free to ask. It may seem odd, but what made me finally decide to post about my death was someone asking me “Are you afraid?” I’m not. I have some concerns about some of the things I’ll face leading to death, but at least for now, I’m not afraid of death itself.
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Dot Matrix
I am not afraid of death but I am of pain.
I do not want you to hurt. I do not want to hurt. I think that is why thinking of death scares me.
You are sooo young.
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HAPe4me
LG-
Dude, I am extremely impressed with your ability to bring this to us here. It is a subject too often ignored until time has gotten away from us. Thank you, and I join others in wishing you all that you hope for, and more than you dream for.
Having dealt with some close people who were aware of their impending "change of address" (my mother's choice of words), I would like to recommend that you consider in-home hospice care. The people from hospice were wonderful for my mother as well as us survivors'.
Their care to make things as comfortable as possible, to answer our most in depth questions, to follow up and ask, months later, if we had any new concerns, were just a few of the things that made me feel so proud to have known them.
Most Hospice programs I know of are quite skillful at helping people prepare and handle death no matter their religious, non-religious, or even anti-religious leanings. Hospice personel are legally allowed to honor things like Health Care Directives (Living Wills), while I am told that EMT's on ambulances are not, should that situation arise
Lastly, please if you haven't done so already, complete a Health Care Directive and have it witnessed and copied for your oncologist and other health professionals as well as your daughter and other support people. It will aide them in making sure your wishes are followed through concerning what care you are to receive in specific circumstances. I recently used a computer program called Willmaker Plus 2006 to do a couple of these for myself and a relative. It was thorough in my opinion.
Be at peace, wonderful peace, its my hope for you.
~HAP
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sirguessalot
hey George and all
something ive found that helps a person and community navigate such places
is a practice of compassionate inquiry...and asking potently free and freeing questions
...the kind with no correct answer
or no obligation to answer at all
and what it might look like for us, perhaps,
(given what i glean from what you have written)
is if we ask things such as...
"how might we find out what kinds of things you would like to discuss?"
"how you can imagine discussing them?"
"do you have questions you would like the community to ask?"
or "how might we proceed with this strange new virtual kind of community conversation?"
etc, etc...
cuz simply asking these open kinds of questions into a circle can draw out our deeper wisdom and intuition
and imo, there is one helluva lot to those 4 insights you have already given us to draw from
and so i guess i am just pointing to what i understand to be a treasure trove of tips of the ice-berg kinds of conversations that will indeed teach us all
and i'm not paying tribute or anything
though in my studies, we have a saying that "the dying are our greatest spiritual teachers"
which i find to be true from both religious and rational points of view
as you seem to know, there can be an astonishing value to all this, in spite of the outcome
as if there is something universally sacred about the "liminal space" that is evoked
as our priorities are stripped and shift dramatically, with or without our consent
and so i am curious about how we might help us become more comfortable
and able to be ordinary with you
to whatever depth and degree you invite
so you can say what you find to say before disappearing
even if it turns out to be years from now
anyway...i hope i am making sense
and i hope i have not overstepped bounds for anyone
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dmiller
Who will sing for me?
We will, as will your daughter. This is hard. You've been a friend to us all here at GSC.
Like someone else said -- here's hoping your dreams exceed doctor's expections,
or something along those lines.
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LG
Thanks again, everyone.
A few people have sent me PMs with phone numbers, in case I want to talk. I appreciate their hearts, but I have people to talk with and be with, whenever I want. I really am okay, as much as someone in my physical condition can be.
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TheEvan
Are you pursuing hospice resources in your area? We've had great experiences with the local civic hospice foundation, though I've heard others that used private hospice providers didn't have such a great experience. In our case the service was free. Besides the care they provide, they had some good reading material on death that helped all of us in preparation for the inevitable.
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TheEvan
A few things: You said you found your perspective has changed which is understandable. Can you elaborate on how, both at home and here?
A request: IF she's so inclined, would your daughter be so kind as to give a death announcement here on the 'Spot? Doubtless, people will comment and she might find them worth reading. Again, if she's so inclined.
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Raf
But by all means, NO RUSH ON THAT LAST REQUEST!!!
:)
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doojable
LG - Just talk - tell us what you want to say - if anything at all.
I for one will listen and not comment unless you invite a comment. I can't be there to just be quiet and let you have a peaceful moment with another person in the room, but I can allow you to just BE.
I say we let LG be HIM. Let this thread be about HIM and what he wants and needs.
If anyone wants to know my thoughts about this - PM me and I'll tell you in private.
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TheEvan
Dooj, here's LG's original request. I don't think we can go wrong.
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doojable
Evan - Maybe I'm dense. Maybe I just have too many X chromosomes, (as in two.) I wasn't responding to YOUR post as much as I was feeling the sense of the thread.
I'll just forego posting anymore on this thread and just read.
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socks
I can't think of anything better than's been said, LG. You characterize the best we could ever hope to be, posting here and allowing us to be here with you.
I hope and pray you're here for a lot longer than is expected. I hope to see you again, however it is. No requests, brother but maybe a little candle in the window here - whenever that day should come, later than sooner I hope, if you should come to find out we've all got our panties in a wad the wrong way about life, and you can do anything to pass it back, we could sure use the help.
You're an honorable man. God be with you brother! I look forward to reading anything you have to say here.
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excathedra
it's friday but i wanna sing this anway
Well you gassed her up
Behind the wheel
With your arm around your sweet one
In your Oldsmobile
Barrelin' down the boulevard
You're looking for the heart of Saturday night
And you got paid on Friday
And your pockets are jinglin'
And you see the lights
You get all tinglin' cause you're cruisin' with a 6
And you're looking for the heart of Saturday night
Then you comb your hair
Shave your face
Tryin' to wipe out ev'ry trace
All the other days
In the week you know that this'll be the Saturday
You're reachin' your peak
Stoppin' on the red
You're goin' on the green
'Cause tonight'll be like nothin'
You've ever seen
And you're barrelin' down the boulevard
Lookin' for the heart of Saturday night
Tell me is the crack of the poolballs, neon buzzin?
Telephone's ringin'; it's your second cousin
Is it the barmaid that's smilin' from the corner of her eye?
Magic of the melancholy tear in your eye.
Makes it kind of quiver down in the core
'Cause you're dreamin' of them Saturdays that came before
And now you're stumblin'
You're stumblin' onto the heart of Saturday night
Well you gassed her up
And you're behind the wheel
With your arm around your sweet one
In your Oldsmobile
Barrellin' down the boulevard,
You're lookin' for the heart of Saturday night
Is the crack of the poolballs, neon buzzin?
Telephone's ringin'; it's your second cousin
And the barmaid is smilin' from the corner of her eye
Magic of the melancholy tear in your eye.
Makes it kind of special down in the core
And you're dreamin' of them Saturdays that came before
It's found you stumblin'
Stumblin' onto the heart of Saturday night
And you're stumblin'
Stumblin onto the heart of Saturday night
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rhino
well, from my recent experience with recent family deaths, it is good you don't have people playing up to you to try to get your assets. You have family, you have only genuine concerns for family, and they for you, remaining. That seems so much richer than some uncles I have , where everyone was kissing up to impress them, after never really caring about them. it can be oh so ugly.
it is good you have the time you have, George. I'd still like some of those unapproved cures to work. I just spoke to a cousin's wife that was told she would die but is back as strong as ever. But in any case you have good people with you now. I hope you throw out some of your insights ... it seems some of us never really get focused till nearly too late.
I guess I'm just trying to stir up some thoughts ...
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LG
Evan,
I'll be receiving hospice care. I'll ask my daughter about a death announcement. I want to take a little time before I elaborate on perceptive change. I honestly haven't given it much thought, except to notice it.
Doojable,
I didn’t need or even want anything in particular when I started this topic, except to let folks know what’s going on, rather than just disappearing one day. Beyond that, anything’s fine by me. I may not have much more to say on this thread, unless someone prompts me with a question or comment. If anyone does, that’s great. On the other hand, if this thread drops off the front page, I’m fine with that, too.
All: I don’t spend my days dwelling on death, especially not emotional, psychological, or spiritual aspects of it. I am spending lots of time trying to close out my affairs. I don’t mind discussing death here at GS, but I come here because I enjoy reading and posting about all the other topics of interest, along with all the other wonderful people here. Now that I’ve broken this news, I’d like to try to resume, as much as possible, my more normal style of participation. I’m not saying I want to cut off this topic. I just don’t want to dwell too much on it.
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pawtucket
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dmiller
LG -- I hear that. Working at a group home, I try to get *my guys* out to do stuff as much as possible. Invariably -- when we are at a store in the mall, or a coffee shop, or whatever, the folks in the store figure out that my clients are disabled (NOT a hard thing to do), and automatically assume that they can not answer questions for themselves.
The clerk (or whomever), realizes I am "the staff" for them,
and ask me what they need.
I tell the clerk -- "Ask them. Not me."
The consternation on their face is something to behold.
I can just see them thinking "WHAT!!! Me talk to someone like that?"
Total embarassment, total confusion, and totally flustered.
And when they do speak to my clients -- it never fails ---
And they speak v--e--r--y s--l--o--w--l--y, and V--E--R--Y L--O--U--D--L--Y.
I tell the clerk -- "Hey -- we're not deaf. Can you speak a little more quietly here?"
Then they are totally embarrassed, and sometimes I let them off the hook by saying --
"It's ok. Really it is. Now what did you want to know?"
(Actually -- I had to *dress down* a doctor, who came to our house to evaluate one of the clients.)
He spoke so LOUDLY, I immediately interrupted him to ask if he had some good drugs with him,
that would cure the headache I was getting from the volume of his voice.
(I didn't *let him off the hook* -- he should have known better).
Point is (I guess) -- I'd like to aplogize if I came off sounding like a *clerk* to you.
Thank you for reminding me that some folks accept their situation in life.
Accepting it, living with it, and dealing with it --regardless of what others might assume.
I know *my guys* live with their disabilities, understand that they are *different*,
but they like to be treated as if they were normal folks. I do my best to see that happens.
And I'll do my best to do the same here. :)
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Seahorse
It's been about 22 plus years since we've seen each other and you may not remember me. This is my first post here at greasespot from Irving Texas. I don't know where you are now. So this is simply a "walk-down-memory lane" and nothing more than that. I write only because I wanted you to know the impression you left with me, and I'm sure countless others through the last two decades plus a couple more.
I remember you. I remember your daughter, Lisa, and Dee and her son, Chris. Even if you don't know who I am and even if you don't recall my name (Gail M.) or our visits to each other's homes, it's fine with me. I'm ok with that, perfectly. My purpose in writing is to tell you what a awe-inspiring impression you made on me as a father and as a family man.
You see, I had already had three grown kids when your daughter was a toddler. So I had lots of experience with children and their abilities, what was the norm, or the average behavior of children your daughter's age. To say that she was "gifted" was an understatement! She was so smart, so far superior and above the average. She literally blew me totally away. She knew her alphabet and all the sounds before most babies learned to say much more than "Momma, Dadda", etc. She was reading as a toddler. Reading books, reading the cereal boxes, reading from everything. She was a brilliant child with an incredible attention span. And that's putting it mildly. I know because I have a gifted Grandaughter, and her Dad, my Son, Daniel was gifted also. Only I didn't know it back then when he was a child because "gifted" was never mentioned back in the 60s. I worked in a Roman Catholic Rectory for eleven years in Elmira, NY before coming to Texas. I worked with the children in the Polish Catholic school next door to the rectory where I worked as bookkeeper. My Aunt taught there in first grade and I knew her curriculum for the first and second grades. Lisa was doing that work when she was only two to three years old.
You and Dee were wonderful, loving, perfect parents. You were patient and very strict. And as a result, your children were the best behaved children I have seen to this day. That includes my three kids, and they all were very well behavied as well. We had ministry meetings that lasted for hours and hours and your children never, never misbehaved. When we prayed, they prayed. When we talked they sat and either listened quietly or played quietly by themselves. It's was amazing to me. When the teachings were going on, I watched your children. When prayers took place, I watched your children. When we ate and socialized, I watched your children. And I watched you and Dee too. What a family group you all were. I admired you tremendously. You all had great love and patient understanding and it showed in your children. I was more attentive to watching your family than paying attention to the doings going on in class.
I could not take my eyes off your amazingly, well-mannered children.
So, no matter what happened later in your lives, I'm happy to know you raised your daughter as a single parent and that you have a close and loving relationship with her. I'm so very proud of you as a man, as a Father, as a human being. And I praise you for making friends again with Dee. It speaks volumes about your loving character, still. Most people are too bitter to heal those wounds. You have a gift too, a generous gift.
I'll keep reminiscing here because I'm not going to discuss anything you mentioned you wished to avoid.
Perfect for me, as my wish is just to walk down memory lane with you and perhaps to shed some light on things you may have forgotten. Memories are precious to me and I'm thankful I met you and your family.
I did not know what happened to you. No one in our Irving group knew either. Last I knew you and Dee sold all your belongings and packed up for Ohio, but that you did not go to the WOW field. We all lost track of your family after that. I don't know if you ever came back to Irving.
I went to Ohio that year too. It must have been around 1985 or thereabouts. I drove my large baby-blue 1986 T-bird with a 460 hp engine (gorgeous vehicle) and I took with me Susanne B., Pam F. and her two blond teenage daughters, Cheri and Desiree'. (I understand Pam passed away a couple years ago in the Carolinas.) Bill H. was our leader back then; he was a tall, good-looking, dedicated. young man who had a window washing business around Irving. He did a good job as a leader. My group was later led by Wayne F. Wayne was the only leader with enough loving compassion to keep the rest of us from hiring a hit-man to get rid of Gil L. I got in much trouble once for telling him he was "intimidating". (God knew that was the truth). I didn't go to some affair where you burn little notes in a fire place, and he was reaming me out about it. I told him my daughter was moving that weekend and Steve K and I (we were dating then) had only one evening to shampoo her carpet so she could get her deposit back. It didn't serve as a good explanation to Gil and he continued to prepare to "burn-me-at-the-stake" so to speak. I told him my kids came first and they always would. Maybe not first before God of course, but first before a ministry meeting of any kind, anywhere. He later held his witch-hunt with the entire twig suggesting I was possessed. He was a real trip.... a bad trip. I always joked with others that I thought he missed his vocation and that he should have been a guard in a penitentiary. Funny thing was that, many years later, I heard he became a warden in some prison. So, I definitely called that one correctly. It was so obvious that he missed his calling. Gil chased off Robert (Bob) LaP. (Grand Prairie group), originally from New Hampshire. Bob left all his belonging at my house, including his bible and Driver's License, and in total defeat and dispair, hitch-hiked with nothing but the clothes on his back, and returned to NH. He was the best "witnesser of the word" I ever met. He would talk the word to anyone, anywhere and he always did it with great joy, enthusiam and and a smile on his face. It was a shame and a sin to crush him the way Gil did. I've tried to reach him for decades but failed.
Some of the other folks in our area were: Deb & Chris R. from Grand Prairie. They sang and he played guitar. They are still in Texas in a wonderful church group that blesses them. Then there was Darlene & David R. with two kids, Sammy and Danny and they all live in New Mexico now. David's brother married my daughter, Diane and they have a 17 year old girl, Stephanie. Then there was a lovely young girl, Alice L.
and of course the beloved Wayne F. who everyone loved and will never forget who moved to Houston, then California then back to his hometown in Alabama. The was a young, large girl named Suzanne who lived in the same group with Bill H. I don't know where she went. The Suzanne B was married to Richard B. a paleontologist who worked for Mobile oil. She came to twig, he didn't. She was originally from New England, a real "Lady" with class and good breeding. They eventually had two boys who were home-schooled and are now in college. Then there was Cookie B and Richard B, married with a son named Ritchie. They originally from NY and before that, Porto Rico. Cookie and Richard are now married to other fine spouses. Richard and his wife, Emily are heavily involved with a very loving church group out west near N. Ft. Worth.
Steve K and I terminated our relationship and he married someone in south Irving. That was more than 15 years ago but I am still in close touch with his Mom, his Aunt & Uncle, his sisters, and his daughter who just had her 3rd child. Although I haven't heard from Steve K in 15 years, I love all his family dearly. I've even visited his Mom and Dad in N.C. with two different boyfriends over the years and when I go to Georgia to visit my son, I've spent time with his Mom and Dad, sisters, and his Aunt and Uncle...all loving people.
I have been with Lee, my companion for over 12 years and he treats me with great respect and tenderness. We live in my house, the same one, on Goodyear Street in Irving. I'm still moving around (although not still kicking much) and age is fast catching up with me. I have way too many thoughts on my demise and hope dearly that I make it at least to enjoy a little retirement and some traveling. I'm pretty much a hermit by choice. I watch too many movies and don't get any exercise other than one week a year. I'm happy at home knowing Lee and my children do love me. I need to love myself a bit more and take better care of myself. I know that I'm not going to get an "jewels-in-my-crown" watching TV all the time, but I have helped Lee come to the knowledge of God and I believe he is born again of the spirit. I've tried to set him an example in loving my neighbor as myself.
So, my dear friend George, it is with great joy to me that I've found you and been able to chat with you, (although one-sided), bearing all the news I can think of without going over the limit of post words.
I think Lisa would enjoy having all these letters from folks who both know and have never met you. Take pictures and share a journal with her. When I thougth I was dying from a 16 pound tumor I had removed, I wrote notes and letters to everyone. Thank you for sharing with me and I hope my sharing with you has benefited and blessed your heart in some way. Remember you are remembered by many and loved by all.
Give my love to Lisa and Dee and all who may remember me. My picture from back then is attached.
Enjoy your Christmas and New Year with all the joy you can muster. As my daughter says, "let's make memories".
With much affection and Love,
Gail Morgan, Irving Texas
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LG
How nice to hear from you, Gail! I do remember, but not with such detail. You must have an excellent memory, kept journals, or both.
“I don't know where you are now.”
A little town called Commerce, 65 mi. NE of Dallas.
“I remember your daughter, Lisa, and Dee and her son, Chris.”
I hadn’t mentioned Chris, but only for the sake of brevity. I loved him as my own and, as far as either of us was concerned, I was his father for ten years. I’d have happily continued in that relationship, and raised him along with Lisa, but of course, I couldn’t. That broke my heart. For several years, my only knowledge of Chris came through Lisa. Lisa and I spent a few hours with him about twelve years ago, when he and his mom came to Texas to see Lisa, but other than that, we had almost no contact. We had a very nice, long phone conversation recently, though, and will likely do so again. He’s had some difficult times, but seems to be doing okay, and I’m glad about that.
“You and Dee were wonderful, loving, perfect parents. You were patient and very strict. And as a result, your children were the best behaved children I have seen to this day. That includes my three kids, and they all were very well behavied as well. We had ministry meetings that lasted for hours and hours and your children never, never misbehaved. When we prayed, they prayed. When we talked they sat and either listened quietly or played quietly by themselves.”
We were far from perfect, but we did our best. Because of stories I’ve read here about harsh, abusive discipline of children, I want to clarify some things for others. We were strict about their behavior, in that we required good manners and didn’t let them run wild or disrupt things, but we didn’t make them sit like robots, either. We always provided for their quiet entertainment. As you noted, we allowed them to play (or read) during meetings. Also, if one of them just couldn’t handle it, Dee or I would take them outside. When we were at meetings but the meetings weren’t actually “in session,” we allowed them more freedom, and even more in other settings.
“I did not know what happened to you. No one in our Irving group knew either. Last I knew you and Dee sold all your belongings and packed up for Ohio, but that you did not go to the WOW field. We all lost track of your family after that. I don't know if you ever came back to Irving.”
I’m not sure if your time-line is off a little here, or if I’m just misunderstanding the time correlation between this and what you write below, much of which preceded this. We didn’t go to Ohio. We moved to Garland. I don’t want to get into details, but we needed to do what we did. Some time later, I got a job in Austin and we moved to the Hill Country. We had some very good years, but some problems arose that led to divorce. After that, I moved to Commerce, because it was a good place for me to raise Lisa.
“So, my dear friend George, it is with great joy to me that I've found you and been able to chat with you, (although one-sided), bearing all the news I can think of without going over the limit of post words.”
It’s been a joy for me, too. Thank you.
Love,
George
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rhino
We had some doubts about twi even in Dallas, I wish I'd shared more with everyone, but I didn't know much then. It looks like you figured it out pretty quick.
That is sad news about Pam. It is a shame about Gil and Bob LaP. When I think of Bob I am reminded of Charlie Treemendous Jones ... he just seemed always enthused. I still have a little table he made me for fellowships. Gil did more more for Bob and others than I ever did, since he probably chased more away from twi.
I remember the other George that worked for Dover elevator. I still quote him on his "Do it over Dover" line. :) It seems Chris and ? also homeschooled in Garland. Suzanne was a teacher and homeschooled her kids as well, I forget if she had moved over to the Garland area. Those were some good folks. (Suzanne, if you read this, I never thought of you as "large" but as very pretty LOL)
Gail just reminded me of some of those things, so I thought I'd throw in my memories. I think I was just wasting time while you were getting educated, working and raising a family. Congrats on what you put into and got out of your years. Hopefully you have more than they say left ahead.
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LG
I led a fellowship in Irving, which Wayne took over after he graduated from the Corps. I had spoken with Wayne a few times when he was a WOW in Grand Prairie during his interim year, and I liked him. I was supporting a family of four, trying to prepare for a more secure financial future, and thought highly of Wayne, so I was all for him taking over. We continued to meet at my place. That went well, but Gil, the first and only “Corps Nazi” I had anything to do with in TWI, had a definite negative influence (to put it mildly) on the area in general and many individuals.
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