She refuses to look at anything, I told her after reading this site for hours, that it was comprised primarily of all past Way Members who had first hand experiences. She always says, "You can't look at the negative of the organization, you have to look at the positive things they are teaching", then normally she also adds that she would rather die than change her beliefs. The thing I always tell her is that her beliefs in god and christianity are fine, but it deeply saddens me to think that someone I care so much about can have the wool pulled over their eyes so easily....this in turn normally leads to me being the bad guy and end of conversation or a huge arguement that ends with her getting extremely upset and crying, which I ask her, if she deep down really believes the way is so good, why are you bawling your eyes out and going hysterical. She has even told me how she was molested in the Way on two occasions on retreats, but all those bad people (she refers to homosexuals/lesbians typically) were removed in the 80's and now it is lead by a very good leader who everyone likes, Rivenbark. I then show her stuff showing how she was no better due to her being involved so much with the scandals and she says that is preposterous as well.
Take your Catholicism and her devotion to TWI totally OUT of the equation.
Now say that you were Episcopalian and she was a Christian Scientist.
The dilemma really is not: Can I rescue her from a cult?
The dilemma is whether you can sustain a meaningful relationship when your spiritual values are so divergent.
Some couples manage it beautifully, but there is a demand of "all or nothing" with TWI that leaves no room for the sort of compromise required in those successful situations.
This is just one more reason that you are better out of this, Ryan.
I definetly understand what you mean, so are you saying she is set in her ways, not that I am wanting her to change her beliefs and become a Catholic, I DO NOT want that at all, I just wish she could see what so many other people on here have.....Is it a lost Cause in the relationship?
Welcome to The Cafe. The reason she refuses to even consider what you are saying is easy to explain. That is what she was programmed(notice I did not say taught) to do in session #7 of the Power For Abundant Living class. If she was a student of the newer version of the foundational class, she undoubtably got this same information but,not being a student of that version, I couldn't tell you where in that class it is presented. In essense, the teaching states that to even question what has been taught will lead to a downfall just as surely as it led to a downfall for Eve in the garden of Eden. It is(imo) a precurser to mind control and self delusion. It is a hard concept to overcome because,after all, the person feels that to even weigh the value of THAT teaching in itself could lead to their downfall. Ryan, there are some folks here who severed their ties with The Way many, many years ago and yet some still struggle with the idea of considering what they were taught with an open and inquistive mind. It is highly unlikey she will change her dedication to her beliefs without a lot of concentrated effort and a willingness to consider she may have been taught some things that were false. You can't "keep you mouth shut and grit you teeth" forever. From what you have posted, it does not appear that you are asking her to question God but rather a cult that claims to have the inside track. "Get on the bus, Gus and get yourself free!". That's just my opinion.
Once she gets involved in her local fellowship and it becomes known that her fiance is -gasp- Catholic, she will be under much pressure to convert you or dump you. Can't be unequally yoked, ya know. You can try to placate them by going to fellowship etc, but that will never be enough. You need to 'sell out' to the Truth(their terminology.) And being a newbie, you will need to be undersheparded (guided like a stoopid sheep) in details great and small.
I wonder if you'll have to turn in weekly schedules and include your love life?
I greatly appreciate everyone taking the time to make these replys, these are all the things that I have already been thinking alot of times in my mind. Being very young and a recent college graduate, I intend on traveling very much with my new job in Waterfowl Biology and bettering myself for a successful career and what not. She is in a very similar field of Biology as myself and until 5 days ago when she found out there is a fellowship here, she was planning on doing alot of jumping around as well. Despite her not even attending a fellowship yet, she is already considering talking to her boss about getting a year extension, despite her saying NUMEROUS times how much she hates her current job and the city of Columbia we both reside in...
Please keep the comments coming, again I am very appreciative of all of them, they are giving me the positive reassurement I need to decide to end it is the best thing to do.
., If I keep my mouth shut and bite my tongue, everything is fine, if I open my mouth and challenge anything, SHE FLIES OFF THE HANDLE and goes CRAZY that I would ever challenge her beliefs in the way.
This is not good, in my opinion.
One thing I'd say.. that's very likely what you have in store if you choose to stay in the relationship. After a while, just being quiet may not keep the peace either.
I greatly appreciate everyone taking the time to make these replys, these are all the things that I have already been thinking alot of times in my mind. Being very young and a recent college graduate, I intend on traveling very much with my new job in Waterfowl Biology and bettering myself for a successful career and what not. She is in a very similar field of Biology as myself and until 5 days ago when she found out there is a fellowship here, she was planning on doing alot of jumping around as well. Despite her not even attending a fellowship yet, she is already considering talking to her boss about getting a year extension, despite her saying NUMEROUS times how much she hates her current job and the city of Columbia we both reside in...
Please keep the comments coming, again I am very appreciative of all of them, they are giving me the positive reassurement I need to decide to end it is the best thing to do.
Moryan -- God bless ya, and the thinking cap you are wearing. :)
Twi has *hijacked* MANY folks from real life, and true vocational asperations,
and funneled them into the *ministry* instead.
When I was in twi (1975-1987) the pressure wasn't as great as it is now.
But it was there -- to serve the ministry first, and yourself second.
It's more prominent these days.
Twi lost a lotta people back in 1986, 1987 (me included),
and their money coffers are not what they used to be.
It is to their advantage to urge folks to stay within the confines of twi,
it is very apparent to me that they strive very hard to keep people in the way, with different mind control tactics and coersiveness...I can ensure that this is one person that they will have no chance of that happening too. Just out of sheer curiousity I want to give my girlfriend the benefit of the doubt and stick with her until the first home fellowship, personally I think it will both directly and indirectly speak for itself in making me break my ties with her, either way, from what everyone says, I feel it will be the best thing for me both for my mental health and self well being.
You describe yourself as being "raised as a Catholic." By that I take it you mean that you accept some of the doctrines and rituals of your faith, question others, and perhaps reject a few. No one checks if you're being committed enough. No one kicks you out if they don't like your amount of commitment. You may identify with Catholicism more than any other religious viewpoint, but it is Catholicism combined with your point of view.
The Way International is much more stringent. Not only is disagreement discouraged, it is grounds for being "marked and avoided," shunned out of the group. The dissenter might be suspected of having devil spirits.
Leaders may inquire into all aspects of one's personal life: employment, leisure time, finances, sex life. In order to be considered faithful, much time is required to be spent reading the Bible and Way publications, and attending meetings and classes. If you become more deeply involved with her, expect that this will be her life, and that you will be expected to adopt this life, as well.
You have said that you and she get along well, as long as you are not talking about religious beliefs and The Way. Such discussions generally degrade into shouting and crying on her part. I think this is an indication that she is not a "fringe believer" in this group, but quite committed. As such, she wants the same commitment for you, because she truly feels that she has the truth. She will be very eager to get you involved. You might be able to accept her on some middle ground, but she probably will not be able to, as she feels she is right and you are wrong, with no compromising "might be right" allowed.
If she is deeply committed to The Way, The Way is her life and her heart. If it is not yours, then you two will never agree on the deeper issues of life.
Ryan, I will say that many of us before we saw the light and got out believed the Way was the greatest thing going for spirituality. Many of us are still sorting junk out and I often wonder what I believe was all wrong or only had half truths.
do you want to see her "delivered?" ---eg. leave the way.
Does this person mean that much to you?
do you think this will be a "normal" relationship?
By now, or tomorrow night at any rate, some one at TWI headquarters will have read this and "communicated" with her family or fellowship leader, they will have figured ou who she is and started to drive a wedge between you and her.
Ask anyone her they are that devious in their means to their end of control.
While she may be wonderful, you are in for the ride of your life so far with her belief system augmented by way doctorine.
Given an ultimatum she will no doubt choose the way sadly...even for her, but they use spiritual blackmail and it is far bigger than you.
You only chance will to appeal to her logic and try different approachs, but like you already said, she will probably explode....they are trained to think that way....many of us here did that too, we became illogical when it cam to our precious way ministry.
I have copies of legal documents (you can find many on the internet and here at GSC), first hand accounts and would be glad to help if it came to the point she would even listen.
The best non-direct attack is with the book "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" Read it, use its logic...r maybe just ask her to read it if she is willing to hear your side...
Are you still Catholic or were you just raised Catholic and have moved on since that time?
If so, how experienced are you in apologetics?
I ask the above two questions because this devilish movement will try to strip you of your faith. If you remain in association with this woman, she will try to lure you into this group at some point or another. Either you or she will have to make a choice: your faith or your friend...her faith or her friend.
If you truly care about this girl, you need to offer prayers for her conversion. That's the best thing you could do for both of you...IMHO/FWIW/YMMV.
I guess I never considered the fact that they will try and contact her, she just called me an hour ago and seems extremely happy, so I am guessing they haven't contacted her yet. Thank you for suggesting the book, that was one thing I was wondering, was if there was any book out there about the subject that anyone suggests. The last thing I want to do is break up with her, but on Saturday she got the most upset I have ever seen her and a lightbulb went on inside my head about the relationship, she also said that 3 different people all told her that the relationship sounded unhealthy, so I can imagine who those 3 people might have been.
Oh, Ryan, this is a life lesson no young man should have to experience. :(
TWI teaches, expects and demands people to put 'the ministry' before anything else in their lives. They LIVE for TWI - not God, mind you, but 'the ministry'. She has definitely got 'the company line' down pat.
Religious beliefs (regardless of the religion) frequently breaks up couples. Think about things long term and decide if the compromises you'll be expected to make are acceptable for you. My husband divorced me when I decided to no longer submit to all the legalistic demands and personal intrusions of TWI and the leadership into our lives. Yes, he chose 'the ministry' over his vow to God and to me.
That was just two years ago. When I first got involved Santa was okay, but by the time I left, we couldn't play "Santa", the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny, etc. because it was lying. Heck, we couldn't even say the words "Christmas", "Easter", "Valentine's Day", etc. :blink: She probably says, "Household Holiday" and "December 25th" instead of Christmas unless they've loosened things up a little.
Once you're in a serious relationship you will be expected to compromise yourself even more. Has she told you that the Catholic religion has to be referred to as "Roman Catholic" not just plain "Catholic" and that they consider your religion the worst of the worst? TWI folks know more RC jokes than any other jokes. You're stupid and possessed because you pray to devil spirits and dead people instead of to God exclusively. ;)
You'll be expected to allow her to miss family gatherings to attend TWI functions and classes. You'll be expected to seriously limit your time with your "unbelieving" family. And you would most likely not even be allowed to get married if you don't "take the class" and begin attending fellowship on a regular basis to include giving MINIMUM 15% of your income to TWI.
Are these compromises that you really want to make? Is she really worth all that trouble? Wouldn't she just be better to have as a friend and not so much investment and denial of your true, authentic self? It sounds like you're not even really able to be yourself 100% around her because of all the tip-toeing around due to TWI.
The warning that people from TWI headquarters are reading this right now, printing it out and trying to figure out who you and your girlfriend are. Does that sound like a "Godly" church to you? She will hear about this from others and she will be warned about further involvement with you because of your 'tainted' impression from talking to us 'cop outs' and "Godless" people.
IF they don't talk to her directly about it - they will pretend to know nothing, but ask her continually about your relationship and they will very subtly work on getting her to cut all ties with you.
I tried to get my ex to see the evil and deceptions to the root of TWI and he refused with a lot of the same arguments that you're getting. I then tried to show him all the doctrinal errors and how TWI is NOT teaching "the rightly divided word", but he refused to discuss those things and called ME deceived.
You're young and a relationship with this much turmoil, work and disagreements on such a foundational and important aspect of life really isn't worth the effort or going to work out to your satisfaction, I'm afraid. Consider this a great life lesson on what Ryan wants, needs and deserves in a girlfriend, wife, dear friend. Please don't compromise Ryan for someone who would never even consider compromise from her end. You deserve and should have much more than that.
Yes I am very familiar with apologetics....Despite being raised Catholic and attending Church weekly until the age of about 20, I am not so devoute to the Church anymore, however, I have not lost my faith in God or Christianity. Nor do I want her to lose her faith in God as well. I think everyone but her fully understands that I am not trying to change her faith, nor to even make her convert/quit the way, I just want her to at least see from another viewpoint....I do fully realize thatif it continues at this pace, that it won't be healthy for myself inparticular or for the both of us.
"The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" is a great book!
There are transcripts of Rivenbarf on the stand perjuring herself in a court of law online, too. Even the most die-hard person has to admit that she's lying in her statements in that court case.
Converting her or not isn't really an issue with TWI folks - it's going to be converting YOU if you decide to pursue a serious relationship with her.
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fellowshipper
Y ea tell her to go to www.greasespotcafe.com and let her read the countless stories.
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likeaneagle
if she is friend then she needs to listen too...
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moryan
She refuses to look at anything, I told her after reading this site for hours, that it was comprised primarily of all past Way Members who had first hand experiences. She always says, "You can't look at the negative of the organization, you have to look at the positive things they are teaching", then normally she also adds that she would rather die than change her beliefs. The thing I always tell her is that her beliefs in god and christianity are fine, but it deeply saddens me to think that someone I care so much about can have the wool pulled over their eyes so easily....this in turn normally leads to me being the bad guy and end of conversation or a huge arguement that ends with her getting extremely upset and crying, which I ask her, if she deep down really believes the way is so good, why are you bawling your eyes out and going hysterical. She has even told me how she was molested in the Way on two occasions on retreats, but all those bad people (she refers to homosexuals/lesbians typically) were removed in the 80's and now it is lead by a very good leader who everyone likes, Rivenbark. I then show her stuff showing how she was no better due to her being involved so much with the scandals and she says that is preposterous as well.
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Ellen Crean
Hello, Ryan.
Another way to look at your dilemma:
Take your Catholicism and her devotion to TWI totally OUT of the equation.
Now say that you were Episcopalian and she was a Christian Scientist.
The dilemma really is not: Can I rescue her from a cult?
The dilemma is whether you can sustain a meaningful relationship when your spiritual values are so divergent.
Some couples manage it beautifully, but there is a demand of "all or nothing" with TWI that leaves no room for the sort of compromise required in those successful situations.
This is just one more reason that you are better out of this, Ryan.
Wishing you and her well,
Ellen
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moryan
I definetly understand what you mean, so are you saying she is set in her ways, not that I am wanting her to change her beliefs and become a Catholic, I DO NOT want that at all, I just wish she could see what so many other people on here have.....Is it a lost Cause in the relationship?
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Ellen Crean
I am actually saying that TWI teaches that there is no room for compromise when it comes to the Bible.
Without compromise, your relationship won't last long anyway.
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dmiller
Moryan -- find a new girlfriend.
If she won't change, life will never be peaceful between the two of you.
I know it's hard to trust words on a screen, but please listen.
As long as she is in twi, that *group-think* will be the ruling denominator in your relationship.
Nothing wrong with an affiliation to a religious group (imo).
I was raised Catholic as well -- and I know the pressure they put on their parishioners.
I was in twi, and I know the pressure they put on their followers as well.
Both make demands, but twi is definately the worse of the two.
Twi makes inroads into your personal life, and demands change -- according to THEIR standards.
Catholicism makes many demands also -- but they aren't as intrusive,
nor do they spy on you to see if you are following *doctrine*.
If she won't leave twi, find someone else.
Your (happy) life, and sanity depend on it.
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waysider
Ryan
Welcome to The Cafe. The reason she refuses to even consider what you are saying is easy to explain. That is what she was programmed(notice I did not say taught) to do in session #7 of the Power For Abundant Living class. If she was a student of the newer version of the foundational class, she undoubtably got this same information but,not being a student of that version, I couldn't tell you where in that class it is presented. In essense, the teaching states that to even question what has been taught will lead to a downfall just as surely as it led to a downfall for Eve in the garden of Eden. It is(imo) a precurser to mind control and self delusion. It is a hard concept to overcome because,after all, the person feels that to even weigh the value of THAT teaching in itself could lead to their downfall. Ryan, there are some folks here who severed their ties with The Way many, many years ago and yet some still struggle with the idea of considering what they were taught with an open and inquistive mind. It is highly unlikey she will change her dedication to her beliefs without a lot of concentrated effort and a willingness to consider she may have been taught some things that were false. You can't "keep you mouth shut and grit you teeth" forever. From what you have posted, it does not appear that you are asking her to question God but rather a cult that claims to have the inside track. "Get on the bus, Gus and get yourself free!". That's just my opinion.
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Bramble
Once she gets involved in her local fellowship and it becomes known that her fiance is -gasp- Catholic, she will be under much pressure to convert you or dump you. Can't be unequally yoked, ya know. You can try to placate them by going to fellowship etc, but that will never be enough. You need to 'sell out' to the Truth(their terminology.) And being a newbie, you will need to be undersheparded (guided like a stoopid sheep) in details great and small.
I wonder if you'll have to turn in weekly schedules and include your love life?
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moryan
I greatly appreciate everyone taking the time to make these replys, these are all the things that I have already been thinking alot of times in my mind. Being very young and a recent college graduate, I intend on traveling very much with my new job in Waterfowl Biology and bettering myself for a successful career and what not. She is in a very similar field of Biology as myself and until 5 days ago when she found out there is a fellowship here, she was planning on doing alot of jumping around as well. Despite her not even attending a fellowship yet, she is already considering talking to her boss about getting a year extension, despite her saying NUMEROUS times how much she hates her current job and the city of Columbia we both reside in...
Please keep the comments coming, again I am very appreciative of all of them, they are giving me the positive reassurement I need to decide to end it is the best thing to do.
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Ham
This is not good, in my opinion.
One thing I'd say.. that's very likely what you have in store if you choose to stay in the relationship. After a while, just being quiet may not keep the peace either.
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dmiller
Moryan -- God bless ya, and the thinking cap you are wearing. :)
Twi has *hijacked* MANY folks from real life, and true vocational asperations,
and funneled them into the *ministry* instead.
When I was in twi (1975-1987) the pressure wasn't as great as it is now.
But it was there -- to serve the ministry first, and yourself second.
It's more prominent these days.
Twi lost a lotta people back in 1986, 1987 (me included),
and their money coffers are not what they used to be.
It is to their advantage to urge folks to stay within the confines of twi,
and do as they (twi) mandate to insure survival.
Take a deep breath, and do what you have to do.
Wishing you the best.
Mr. Hammeroni --so good to see you again!!
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moryan
it is very apparent to me that they strive very hard to keep people in the way, with different mind control tactics and coersiveness...I can ensure that this is one person that they will have no chance of that happening too. Just out of sheer curiousity I want to give my girlfriend the benefit of the doubt and stick with her until the first home fellowship, personally I think it will both directly and indirectly speak for itself in making me break my ties with her, either way, from what everyone says, I feel it will be the best thing for me both for my mental health and self well being.
thanks again everyone...
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coolchef
ryan hello and welcome stick around my advice although it may seem harsh........run and run very fast away from this girl!
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shazdancer
Hi Moryan, and welcome to the Café.
You describe yourself as being "raised as a Catholic." By that I take it you mean that you accept some of the doctrines and rituals of your faith, question others, and perhaps reject a few. No one checks if you're being committed enough. No one kicks you out if they don't like your amount of commitment. You may identify with Catholicism more than any other religious viewpoint, but it is Catholicism combined with your point of view.
The Way International is much more stringent. Not only is disagreement discouraged, it is grounds for being "marked and avoided," shunned out of the group. The dissenter might be suspected of having devil spirits.
Leaders may inquire into all aspects of one's personal life: employment, leisure time, finances, sex life. In order to be considered faithful, much time is required to be spent reading the Bible and Way publications, and attending meetings and classes. If you become more deeply involved with her, expect that this will be her life, and that you will be expected to adopt this life, as well.
You have said that you and she get along well, as long as you are not talking about religious beliefs and The Way. Such discussions generally degrade into shouting and crying on her part. I think this is an indication that she is not a "fringe believer" in this group, but quite committed. As such, she wants the same commitment for you, because she truly feels that she has the truth. She will be very eager to get you involved. You might be able to accept her on some middle ground, but she probably will not be able to, as she feels she is right and you are wrong, with no compromising "might be right" allowed.
If she is deeply committed to The Way, The Way is her life and her heart. If it is not yours, then you two will never agree on the deeper issues of life.
MHO,
Shaz
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fellowshipper
Ryan, I will say that many of us before we saw the light and got out believed the Way was the greatest thing going for spirituality. Many of us are still sorting junk out and I often wonder what I believe was all wrong or only had half truths.
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dmiller
Shaz -- you put it Sooooooo much more succinctly than I could!
Moryan -- listen to Shaz. ;)
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washingtonweather
Moryan -- do you wan to take a long time?
do you want to wait?
do you want to see her "delivered?" ---eg. leave the way.
Does this person mean that much to you?
do you think this will be a "normal" relationship?
By now, or tomorrow night at any rate, some one at TWI headquarters will have read this and "communicated" with her family or fellowship leader, they will have figured ou who she is and started to drive a wedge between you and her.
Ask anyone her they are that devious in their means to their end of control.
While she may be wonderful, you are in for the ride of your life so far with her belief system augmented by way doctorine.
Given an ultimatum she will no doubt choose the way sadly...even for her, but they use spiritual blackmail and it is far bigger than you.
You only chance will to appeal to her logic and try different approachs, but like you already said, she will probably explode....they are trained to think that way....many of us here did that too, we became illogical when it cam to our precious way ministry.
I have copies of legal documents (you can find many on the internet and here at GSC), first hand accounts and would be glad to help if it came to the point she would even listen.
The best non-direct attack is with the book "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" Read it, use its logic...r maybe just ask her to read it if she is willing to hear your side...
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markomalley
Ryan,
Are you still Catholic or were you just raised Catholic and have moved on since that time?
If so, how experienced are you in apologetics?
I ask the above two questions because this devilish movement will try to strip you of your faith. If you remain in association with this woman, she will try to lure you into this group at some point or another. Either you or she will have to make a choice: your faith or your friend...her faith or her friend.
If you truly care about this girl, you need to offer prayers for her conversion. That's the best thing you could do for both of you...IMHO/FWIW/YMMV.
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moryan
I guess I never considered the fact that they will try and contact her, she just called me an hour ago and seems extremely happy, so I am guessing they haven't contacted her yet. Thank you for suggesting the book, that was one thing I was wondering, was if there was any book out there about the subject that anyone suggests. The last thing I want to do is break up with her, but on Saturday she got the most upset I have ever seen her and a lightbulb went on inside my head about the relationship, she also said that 3 different people all told her that the relationship sounded unhealthy, so I can imagine who those 3 people might have been.
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Belle
Oh, Ryan, this is a life lesson no young man should have to experience. :(
TWI teaches, expects and demands people to put 'the ministry' before anything else in their lives. They LIVE for TWI - not God, mind you, but 'the ministry'. She has definitely got 'the company line' down pat.
Religious beliefs (regardless of the religion) frequently breaks up couples. Think about things long term and decide if the compromises you'll be expected to make are acceptable for you. My husband divorced me when I decided to no longer submit to all the legalistic demands and personal intrusions of TWI and the leadership into our lives. Yes, he chose 'the ministry' over his vow to God and to me.
That was just two years ago. When I first got involved Santa was okay, but by the time I left, we couldn't play "Santa", the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny, etc. because it was lying. Heck, we couldn't even say the words "Christmas", "Easter", "Valentine's Day", etc. :blink: She probably says, "Household Holiday" and "December 25th" instead of Christmas unless they've loosened things up a little.
Once you're in a serious relationship you will be expected to compromise yourself even more. Has she told you that the Catholic religion has to be referred to as "Roman Catholic" not just plain "Catholic" and that they consider your religion the worst of the worst? TWI folks know more RC jokes than any other jokes. You're stupid and possessed because you pray to devil spirits and dead people instead of to God exclusively. ;)
You'll be expected to allow her to miss family gatherings to attend TWI functions and classes. You'll be expected to seriously limit your time with your "unbelieving" family. And you would most likely not even be allowed to get married if you don't "take the class" and begin attending fellowship on a regular basis to include giving MINIMUM 15% of your income to TWI.
Are these compromises that you really want to make? Is she really worth all that trouble? Wouldn't she just be better to have as a friend and not so much investment and denial of your true, authentic self? It sounds like you're not even really able to be yourself 100% around her because of all the tip-toeing around due to TWI.
The warning that people from TWI headquarters are reading this right now, printing it out and trying to figure out who you and your girlfriend are. Does that sound like a "Godly" church to you? She will hear about this from others and she will be warned about further involvement with you because of your 'tainted' impression from talking to us 'cop outs' and "Godless" people.
IF they don't talk to her directly about it - they will pretend to know nothing, but ask her continually about your relationship and they will very subtly work on getting her to cut all ties with you.
I tried to get my ex to see the evil and deceptions to the root of TWI and he refused with a lot of the same arguments that you're getting. I then tried to show him all the doctrinal errors and how TWI is NOT teaching "the rightly divided word", but he refused to discuss those things and called ME deceived.
You're young and a relationship with this much turmoil, work and disagreements on such a foundational and important aspect of life really isn't worth the effort or going to work out to your satisfaction, I'm afraid. Consider this a great life lesson on what Ryan wants, needs and deserves in a girlfriend, wife, dear friend. Please don't compromise Ryan for someone who would never even consider compromise from her end. You deserve and should have much more than that.
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moryan
Yes I am very familiar with apologetics....Despite being raised Catholic and attending Church weekly until the age of about 20, I am not so devoute to the Church anymore, however, I have not lost my faith in God or Christianity. Nor do I want her to lose her faith in God as well. I think everyone but her fully understands that I am not trying to change her faith, nor to even make her convert/quit the way, I just want her to at least see from another viewpoint....I do fully realize thatif it continues at this pace, that it won't be healthy for myself inparticular or for the both of us.
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washingtonweather
check out the book...I mentioned
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Belle
I second WashingtonWeather's recommendation. :)
"The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" is a great book!
There are transcripts of Rivenbarf on the stand perjuring herself in a court of law online, too. Even the most die-hard person has to admit that she's lying in her statements in that court case.
Converting her or not isn't really an issue with TWI folks - it's going to be converting YOU if you decide to pursue a serious relationship with her.
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