CES is in a Mess...

[dmiller]

When you pray, it's talking to God.

If God talks back, it's schizophrenia.

B as in *B*, and S as in *S*.

(look up schizophrenia in the dictionary, eh?)

[richnchrispy]

Hi, this is Chrispy!

dmiller-

Don't let people get to you. As my dear husband always said: "If a crazy person calls you a tree, would it upset you?" People that have not experienced a conversation with the Lord where he has answered cannot comprehend it.

All-

I heard about John Lynn's divorce from Elizabeth and confronted him, but he said that it was allowed because she (Elizabeth) had hardened her heart. I was shocked that he would so blatantly twist the word like that. That was when I decided that he was bewitched. Maybe all of this on this thread will help wake him from his spiritual slumber and be a man again.

JAL-

I hope you read this John. I really care about you and love the good you have done ever since first meeting you in ~'88. But Karen Anne has your ----- on her mantle. Sorry to be crude. No other way to say it. But there is hope.

Regards,

Chrispy

[J0nny Ling0]

Absent Jesus Absent Jesus Absent Jesus Absent Jesus Absent Jesus Absent Jesus Absent Jesus Absent Jesus Absent Jesus Absent Jesus Absent Jesus Absent Jesus Absent Jesus Absent Jesus Absent Jesus Absent Jesus

Cool Waters. It seems to me that you have concluded that CES has ignored Jesus. I don't know where you got your information, But I had a long conversation with JAL when he was still running the organization, and he spoke of Jesus all of the time. And he made a point of telling me that The Way Ministry essentially ignored the life of Jesus Christ, and that we should not. He then went on a long description about how if Jesus is seated at the right hand of God, ever making intercession for us, then maybe we should take some time to talk to him, and thank him for what he'd done. All those years in The Way, and we ignored Jesus...."

And so, it seems to me that JAL had something (if not alot) to do with Jesus in his days back when he talked to me. And didn't JAL start CES? It's my thinking that he did...

And so Jeff and Richncrispy, what do you know of CES and our Lord Jesus Christ? Do/did they teach about our Lord?

Edited December 19, 2006 by Jonny Lingo

[Ductape]

Somebody please help me out here, I'm having trouble understanding something. Was JAL's second wife evil and demonic by CES/STFI ordained leaders standards and they let one of their dear own marry such a Jezabel? It's either that or the "honeymoon" with JAL opened the poor woman's trap door wide open! Then there is a third possibility, this woman ain't the one with no room left at the inn, if you know what I mean.

No matter which case is the truth it all leaves one logical solution,

RUN!!!!!!

[coupcake]

Johnny,

I had a very similar conversation with John about Jesus Christ and how he was absent in any real way in The Way after Romans 10: 9&10. John and CES seemed (at least with the little contact I had with them) to

put great emphasis on a relationship with Chist both personally and as the head of the Church. Now while I find some of these new developments disturbing, ignoring Christ is not an accusation I would make of them either.

Coup

Edited December 19, 2006 by coupcake

[outofdafog]

Cool Waters. It seems to me that you have concluded that CES has ignored Jesus.

Sounds to me like that was a good conclusion.......I am thinking Karen Anne has taken the place of the absent Christ at this point.........

Johnny Lingo - anybody can talk the talk, I think we all learned that at one time or another don't you..........you know, the reason we are all here.............

[dmiller]

FROM THE TRUTH OR TRADITION WEBSITE.

[Dot Matrix]

I have a question. Where in the Bible did people sit around and talk about dreams all the time and use their pop psychology errrr revelation, to hack away at God’s people?

I am sure many of us have had dreams where God spoke to us…

I have had God speak to me in dreams. I truly have, here is an example

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=839

I had a dream about Joe and then God said was if I wanted to contact him I needed to do it quickly. So, I did. But it was a clean dream no spiders or coffins or anything. God showed me to get in contact so I did, he did not have to tell me it was because he would soon fall asleep in Christ.

Just different then the Karen Ann stuff. Seems like her dreams are "attacking" and cause the "destroy" part of the steal, kill and destroy stuff we are to recognize as the devil's ministry

However, was Elizabeth as big of a problem as the "dreams" said she was? Or did this constant hacking away at her by these werid dreams cause the problems? I would hate to think that JAL allowed this dream weaver to destroy how he felt and acted toward his wife. I mean, was she a problem?

Some of the following stuff is contrived. Sounds similar to what KAG is doing.

http://www.cwgministries.org/Principles-of...tion.htm#Method

Dream # 1

I had a new job as caretaker of a house. I was in the house going up a flight of stairs and I was riding a horse. At the top of the stairs I entered the bathroom and took out some cleaning supplies.

Interpretation

Question: "In what way do I have a new job?"

Answer: "Just today, I have begun to hear God's voice, see vision and journal."

Question: "In what way do I feel like a horse on the stairwell?"

Answer: "I feel extremely awkward tuning to the flow of God's Spirit, seeing vision, and journaling. This way of living is an art I will need to practice until I become comfortable with it. Right now, I feel like a 'bull in the china closet.'"

Question: "In what way will this path take me up a flight of stairs?"

Answer: "Hearing God's voice, seeing God's vision, and recording them will take me to a higher place in my walk with God."

Question: "In what way will I be getting out some cleaning supplies?"

Answer: "Hearing God's voice will clean up some areas of my life."

I mean this krap is just forced. Like the automatic hand writing (snicker) of the personal prophesy. Everyone likes to hear about themselves that is why astrology is so popular. This to me, was just as weird and removed from the Bible as perhaps the "signs" are....

Edited December 19, 2006 by Dot Matrix

[richnchrispy]

Now this is just Chrispy talking...

Jonny Lingo-

I am very pleased with most of the teaching from CES. They do elevate Jesus Christ in word, how they respond to this mess will tell me if they still elevate Jesus Christ in deed.

I think, our walk always fluctuates. We constantly are in need of repentance. I find it a very good indication of my walk with the Lord to pay attention to the things I say to Him. When I pray, which is just converstion with Him, I say everything which is on my heart. I aim to be transparent. Occasionally I even cuss. But if I examine that conversation and see it is all about me, then I need to repent. Sometimes I even do it quickly :-)

Remember a group, such as CES, cannot have a walk with the Lord. Only individuals can have that. But a group has a reputation.

I did not like how I, my husband, and my friends were treated at times by certain CES powerbrokers, but I got over that. But to see the depth to which some would go to control others, that gets me mad! That is witchcraft.

More later,

Chrispy

[Jeff USAF RET]

Hey Jonny Lingo!

Check out this link:

http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.ph...mp;new_topic=27

CES / Spirit & Truth is all about Jesus!

I think that a lot of what is going on with the Board is the Lord getting them / us back on track that he is the head and not the current President's wife / Resner's running it with the dream stuff.

Somehow it just got wayyyyyyyyyyy out of hand.

I think what was said about the slow cooking of error is correct. However, this shift has been going on all year and is just now coming to a head.

Actually, John Schoenhiet and Dan Gallagher have been trying to get it shifted for years. I can't speak for the Theisen's, but I know they now see it and are working to get the balance back.

Bless ya!

Jeff

Edited December 19, 2006 by Jeff USAF RET

[excathedra]

if i wasn't a culthead, this bizzare-o-ness would be hysterical

actually it is hysterical

[J0nny Ling0]

Thank you Jeff and Chrispy. And, I will check out the site.

[outofdafog]

Yeah Jeff, that is what the TWIts have been hearing for a few years now........good Lord, this isn't just the slow cooking of error, the god dang stove is on fire.................

Good god people....

if it looks like a cult.....

and it acts like a cult......

and it quacks and sounds like a cult.....

CHANCES ARE.......IT'S A CULT!!!!!

[Ham]

I think what was said about the slow cooking of error is correct. However, this shift has been going on all year and is just now coming to a head.

Actually, John Schoenhiet and Dan Gallagher have been trying to get it shifted for years. I can't speak for the Theisen's, but I know they now see it and are working to get the balance back.

Jeff, I'm not trying to be critical or anything, but it just kind of sounds like the same reason why a lot of folks hung aroung der vey for as long as they did- to try to make a difference. In the end, they couldn't.

Hopefully, this isn't gonna be the same.

Edited December 19, 2006 by Mr. Hammeroni

[Jeff USAF RET]

Here is a "prophecy" that Karen Ann gave to Dan Gallagher after four members of the Board (Dan was one of them) asked her husband to step down as president a few months ago. Mark and Tom have pointed the finger at Dan as being some kind of ring leader.

However, all four Board members asked him to step down for a period of six months due to some VERY serious problems the Graeser's were having with their marriage this year.

________________

Delivered to Dan verbally by Karen Anne Graesesr on Saturday, October 21, 2006

Dan,

Son stop! You are on a path of vanity that will lead to shame. Stop before the braying jackass leaps over the fence and runs wild. Don’t revisit the lessons of the past.

I’ve delighted in you, prospered you and blessed the work of your hands. I have given you a mighty provision and have plans to give you even more. But you have gotten greedy and used underhanded tactics to take what is not yours. Humble yourself before I humble you. Take the path of submission; it’s the path of real peace and power that leads to true apostolic servanthood. Don’t sell out for artificial power using your natural gifts for the praises of men. If you continue on this course I will still provide for you as a loving father would for a good but foolish son who wasted his inheritance. If you don’t humble yourself and interrupt this path I will cut off your ministry and what could have been a mighty tree will be a bush. I will have brought you along so carefully only to be brought down by your own pride.

A six month leave of absence? How about you? Head into the wilderness for 6 months and return a vessel more suitable for my purposes.

Karen Anne Graeser

______________________________________

She has to stand before the Lord for giving a "word" like this to someone. I think she is to emotionally involved....

Time will tell.....

Jeff

Edited December 19, 2006 by Jeff USAF RET

[dmiller]

Unreal!!!

[excathedra]

after reading someone's description of poo poo, are we sure the poo poo paperboy is not involved ?

[markomalley]

Fool me once...

[Ham]

sheesh, I find myself crying for these poor bastards..

[Ductape]

Don't know about the rest of you, but I sure see Jesus all through this personal prophecy stuff. Wait, personal prophecy, personal relationship, getting to personal with private lives; I think I am seeing a pattern here!

Exactly what is the desired balance? Dreams and personal prophecy will only be allowed to rip half the people apart? Or only half the decisions will be made by the dreamers?

But this does remind me of get rid of Martindale and all is good, just get rid of one wacked woman, don't question the very depths of evil working through the demonic doctrine, its just "her"

[outofdafog]

Time will tell: how much more time of your life are you willing to give over to this hookie-pookism......John Lynn has apparently become nothing more than what he professed to expose in the hierarchy of TWI.....show me what is different.......this has to be similar to the kinds of things that went on in the higher echelon of TWI that us peons were blissfully unaware of.......does this ring a bell for anyone??

Edited December 19, 2006 by outofdafog

[socks]

GS being the point of contact it is for so many people who visit and read, I suspect some of those people will be wondering in the next few months "what do I do now?" If a person's invested their life, time, development of their own beliefs and faith in CES they may feel as if their options are limited. They're never limited, but sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees, as they say.

My recommendation would be - if you want Christian fellowship and activities, consider finding a local church to attend. One where there is a Pastor with a reputation for having a sound marriage or relationship, who cares for the people that attend that church and who is involved in active outreach to the community. Perhaps a Pastor who participates in Mission work, travels to other locations to help Christian outreach there, building programs. In short, a church where the people speak highly of the love and care of their pastor. One who has some experience and training behind him, and who is service minded to his congregation.

Doctrine is always an issue. Doctrine will always differ, not only from church to chuch but within a church's own people. It's a simple reality that no two people ever understand or see things exactly the same. That's a good thing - diversity of understanding about the same issues and matters can help, once we get used to allowing it to exist, not as an enemy, but as a way to learn and grow, for everyone involved.

Big ticket dcctrinal items - Trinity, Heaven/Hell, the Return of Christ - a lot of doctrinal points will be different in churches that haven't come down the same path as ex-Way churches. It doesn't mean that everyone's right - everyone can't be of course. I'm suggesting to take the emphasis off of being right and putting it on fellowship and service. Emphasize meekness and humility to God and Jesus Christ, and allow for others to, in a word, LOVE you for who you are, not what you believe and to do that in turn.

Mature experienced pastoring in a church is critical. No one pastor is perfect, no one will do everything right. Meekness and humility allow for growth. A successful pastor will inevitably have learned that, and not just to "God", but to God's people.

The entire concept of "leadership" is redefined when meekness and humilty and a loving concern to help other are prominent. People find that they can live their own lives freely, quite well in fact, with that kind of pastoral presence.

I hope this helps.

Edited December 19, 2006 by socks

[Mark Sanguinetti]

Jeff:

I consider myself a friend of both John Schoenheit and John Lynn. I warned all three of them (Mark, John and John) very clearly about using prophecy in this manner a few years ago. I mostly talked to John Schoenheit about this because Mark Graeser was a bit overwhelmed with my e-mails. I thought John finally got the message. A couple of years ago when I went to a CES fellowship John said that they were lessening the importance of prophecy in their ministry. Now, I hear this craziness from Karen Ann. I think you have a problem Jeff. I think you should be very firm with them. Be as loving as possible, but very firm. Of course, the alternative is seeing CES drop over a cliff and then crash and burn. No one wants that to happen. If you need any more feedback send me a private message. I am somewhat familiar with the history of this problem and where it originated from.

[richnchrispy]

I have always believed and felt that the one great work of "leaders" in the church is to teach people how to have a relationship with God and Jesus. So the people can talk to God and Jesus and hear them speak back to them ABOUT THEIR OWN LIFE.

This was a real simple lesson 35 years ago and 2-3 years ago. God speaks to you. If you are having trouble hearing Him then you may want to ask a brother or sister for some help in getting the wires uncrossed. But it is not the bro/sis's job to play telephone for you ALL THE TIME.

Yes CES teaches having a relationship with God and Jesus. But then this personal prophecy deal came in and became the rotten apple in the barrel. Pull it out and throw it away and save all of the other good apples.

Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely.

The people on the prophetic Council should be examined one by one by the board and punishment meted out to them based upon their culpability and depth of involvement in things like Elizabeth Lynn's Salem witch trial.

Some of us are getting up into our 50's and 60's now. Regardless of what some "leaders" think of us we are adults who have wielded great responsibility in various areas of life. It is time to be adults in ALL areas of our lives and not accept the YOKE of Bondage again.

Richard

[excathedra]

people people people get a grip

was that too personal ?