Seriously...why do people even care about what's happening at CES? It was just a bunch of good hearted guys who decided a market niche had to be filled for a bunch of TWI dropouts who needed a refill. It was a place for people to go. You needed a new angle on the same program and they gave it to you. I have only met Mr. Lynn twice. You guys know much more then I, but you let "organizations" fill a void whether it was the Way or Tom and Jerry, you were ready for the show?
Some of us care about what's happening in CES because we know the leadership or followers personally.
And most of us care because we care about the Body of Christ, we want any evil to end; and we know that twi-splinter groups have no "synod," "presbyter" or other "higher" governing body of believers to whom they are accountable; therefore we the body of Christ must police ourselves or no one will help end the hurt caused to God's people under their auspices.
As rich just posted in another thread.....We who care about those who have been stricken by the crimes are (as in a court of law) witnessing and speaking in testimony. Since the courts don't handle cases like this, we the Body of Saints get to do it.
Some of us care about what's happening in CES because we know the leadership or followers personally.
And most of us care because we care about the Body of Christ, we want any evil to end; and we know that twi-splinter groups have no "synod," "presbyter" or other "higher" governing body of believers to whom they are accountable; therefore we the body of Christ must police ourselves or no one will help end the hurt caused to God's people under their auspices.
As rich just posted in another thread.....We who care about those who have been stricken by the crimes are (as in a court of law) witnessing and speaking in testimony. Since the courts don't handle cases like this, we the Body of Saints get to do it.
I would like to help you but you need to take care of yourself first. Please, don't use the "body of Christ" too loosely here, there is little you can do. Take care of your own relationship with God and love those around you with all you mind, strength and soul. This world is more evil than any of us can imagine and our death is just a token. I care about the future of CES. John knows that from our commitment to CES. My heart is with these people here contributing their time and heart. Place your heart where it belongs, where rust and moth doth not corrupt. I have to trust in the Lord here more everyday than it's possible to comprehend...this is an Islamic nightmare!
My real name is Bumpy...what's yours? I met John Lynn for the first time in DC in '86, my last US "posting". He was still with the Way. We next met in NC after my last amazing round of golf at Pinehurst the year Payne Stewart died. You figure it out...but I think it was 1999. I played from the back tees and almost tied the couse record until I hit the 5th hole! Oh well, do you do anything but hang out here? How old are you? Are you married, successful, happy with life?
hey there bumpy. my real name is excathedra. how did you and john lynn manage to meet each other again -- '86 and then '99 ?
congrads on your golfing
you can PM me about the questions
tanks
Well ex, you never answered my questions so what do you want me to say? There are no hidden secrets between me and CES. I just tried to help them with some $$$, but soon it bacame another TWI promotion with books, writers and the rest. Please, I know you are an expert on this site and I am not here to compete with what you know or where you have been. Please, understand I have no grievances with anyone or any organization who is held in contempt here on GS. OK?
You are right that each of us need to get our own walk with our Lord together before we can be much help to anyone else. Of course, that's an ongoing thing, too!
Some of us ex-CESers have long known of and spoken up about the cruelties CES leadership has imposed upon some believers. No physical torture or beatings, no kidnapping, not much with the civil authorities (as you and so many others see daily in your countries, b. But cruelty nonetheless. Ruining marriages; breaking up families; poisoning children against their parents; spreading lies/false statements about people, etc.....all because they spoke up to say what was ungodly about the way the group was living. Wes poke up; we were dismisssed or hounded out...and one of us decided enough was enough, and so posted the "prophecies" that CES leadership gave to John Lynn and his wife, and her letter to him explaining her nightmare trying to speak up while married to him.
Thus, evil has been exposed, and so we, the Body of Christ, HAVE helped our brothers and sisters...not just the ones who have been hurt, but the ones doing the hurting. I don't think ANY of them wanted to hurt people. But they were. Talking to them didn't work; there was no one "above them" to talk to, so...enter GreaseSpot! Since they could no longer hide their doings inside the inner circle, they have had to own up to at l east some of them. If they don't own up to the rest of them...and there is no real change...GreaseSpot may again hear of them.
Because of GreaseSpot, people are calling them, writing them, emailing them and I hope it continues until ALL evil is eradicated. Then, we can spend our time winning souls and fighting the devil together instead of separating from each other because of the fighting within.
Seriously...why do people even care about what's happening at CES? It was just a bunch of good hearted guys who decided a market niche had to be filled for a bunch of TWI dropouts who needed a refill. It was a place for people to go. You needed a new angle on the same program and they gave it to you. I have only met Mr. Lynn twice. You guys know much more then I, but you let "organizations" fill a void whether it was the Way or Tom and Jerry, you were ready for the show?
Some questions:
Just curious why you would support a market niche organization?
You said you were involved with CES? Did you also need a refill?
How are you filling the void nowadays?
Do Tom and Jerry have a research ministry?
I prefer Ben & Jerry's.
I looked up that site you gave me, Jewwatch.com.
So are you really a racist and an anti-semetic? Or is that just your sense of humor?
= You needed a new angle on the same program and they gave it to you.
Just curious why you would support a market niche organization?
You said you were involved with CES? Did you also need a refill?
How are you filling the void nowadays?
Do Tom and Jerry have a research ministry?
I prefer Ben & Jerry's.
I looked up that site you gave me, Jewwatch.com.
So are you really a racist and an anti-semetic? Or is that just your sense of humor?
= You needed a new angle on the same program and they gave it to you.
Who needed the new angle? Us?
Good Morning on GMT,
I have just a few moments to respond before I have to get moving. I sent $$$ to CES because there was a guy from Togo who wanted to come to the USA and needed financial help. Also, I have not known all the goings on regarding this recent situation with CES until last week. I have not had contact with them for a couple of years now. As for the rest, it began to sound too much like TWI but with a few less twists of the rope. I think we all learned, at least I did, how to read and enjoy the Bible, find Christ, speak the truth, etc., from PFAL. A girl in TWI in the 80's who left recommended to me CES. So I took a bite. The void gets filled here in Africa everyday, trying to survive a road accident, keeping all my people fed and clothed (and their families), and too many other things I don't want to think about.
As for racism, do you mean black vs. white? Anti-semetic, jew or arab?? Humor comes in many flavors. We make our own ice cream here. It's just a question of taste. I hope I answered your questions?
Bumpy, I don't know why, but I kind of like you so far. You shoot from the hip (haven't read all of your posts) and are asking some honest questions.
Did you say you are NOT involved with CES, but had some association with JL?
I'm trying to catch up here.
Also, you have my sincere concern living on a continent where the muslim extremists are commiting genocide everyday for allah. Do you mind if I ask, why are you there? It must be something you really believe in and not just for the money. Forgive me if you've filled in these blanks before.
But, I would say it would p@@@ me off if I were waken up EVERY MORING by that sheet blasting through the air. Do you understand what they're saying? If so, is yours one of the countries that blasts "death to America" everyday during prayer time?
I know what it sounds like because they played it at prayer time all during the day when I was in the Middle East.
Anyway, welcome and settle down and have some fun if you're so inclined. I welcome your perspective.
Bumpy, I don't know why, but I kind of like you so far. You shoot from the hip (haven't read all of your posts) and are asking some honest questions.
Did you say you are NOT involved with CES, but had some association with JL?
I'm trying to catch up here.
Also, you have my sincere concern living on a continent where the muslim extremists are commiting genocide everyday for allah. Do you mind if I ask, why are you there? It must be something you really believe in and not just for the money. Forgive me if you've filled in these blanks before.
But, I would say it would p@@@ me off if I were waken up EVERY MORING by that sheet blasting through the air. Do you understand what they're saying? If so, is yours one of the countries that blasts "death to America" everyday during prayer time?
I know what it sounds like because they played it at prayer time all during the day when I was in the Middle East.
Anyway, welcome and settle down and have some fun if you're so inclined. I welcome your perspective.
Nice to meet you. I do construction renovation projects in different countries, sell them and try and make some money in the process. I have been here in Senegal about 3 years, taking a month off here and there. Otherwise you go tribal. The morning wake up call usually isn't a big bother as the windows are 6mm security glass...it's the one's that follow which disturb the peace. Senegal is not your "arab terrorist state". It's very peaceful, little in natural resources, rich in music and the arts, but another example of French colonization, in that they inherited the system. The main problem is education, then the lack of economy, the usual corruption and lack of infrastructure. I have water and lights but not on a regular basis.
I have not communicated with CES for the last couple of years when I was in France. When I did I enjoyed the newsletters, sending them a little $$ now and then, and just keeping myself abreast of what they had to say. I never participated in any activities but that's because of distance. I would have liked to have met some of people on this site.
I was surfing the WWW and came across this site which contains some interesting information about CES, Momentus and Personal Prophesy including old posts from CES' message board. The old message board posts are near the bottom. Some of the links are broken, but the ones that aren't, are pretty interesting.
I found this quote by Mark Graeser to be interesting, end of page 22:
"My life is an open book anyway so to ask me to expose myself in front of a group of people is not threatening. It's what I do anyway so I'm interested in a place or a training environment in which I can really benefit from seeing how I show up. How other people perceive me--and I invite that kind of scrutiny, but you know not everybody does and not everybody's in a position to really find that as a healthy experience so that's really the source of the controversy. I think it's a mixed bag."
You heard him, he is INVITING this kind of scrutiny. He wants to know how he shows up.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
32
31
40
40
Popular Days
Dec 18
91
Dec 21
90
Dec 20
86
Dec 19
85
Top Posters In This Topic
excathedra 32 posts
Tom Strange 31 posts
dmiller 40 posts
therebutforgrace 40 posts
Popular Days
Dec 18 2006
91 posts
Dec 21 2006
90 posts
Dec 20 2006
86 posts
Dec 19 2006
85 posts
Popular Posts
notinKansasanymore
Well, then let's PRAY for them. If they're having troubles, and if their original intention was to serve God and help His people (and we can all recall that this is not a goal without natural obsta
Sushi
I'm not exactly sure of the quote, but someone once said, "All organizations have the seeds of death planted in them at their beginning", or something to that effect. You can be sure, whatever organiz
Whatsgoingon
I am very discouraged with my present involvement with STFI. If Mark G causes more issues with SFTI after he is removed from office next week we will probably cease our involvement with that organizat
Posted Images
excathedra
no sheet
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gentle Servant
Quote: (from the letter to Mark)
In that vein, the reason I remain totally committed to Spirit and Truth
Fellowship International is because I can find no one else with the
“package” we have to offer. —John Lynn
benefits? perks? fringe?
PLEASE choose to be among us. —John Lynn
hmmm?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
"if you aint with us, yer agin us"
or something like that
which was said by the big boss when i was in corporate america.....
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bumpy
Seriously...why do people even care about what's happening at CES? It was just a bunch of good hearted guys who decided a market niche had to be filled for a bunch of TWI dropouts who needed a refill. It was a place for people to go. You needed a new angle on the same program and they gave it to you. I have only met Mr. Lynn twice. You guys know much more then I, but you let "organizations" fill a void whether it was the Way or Tom and Jerry, you were ready for the show?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
when did you meet him bumpy ?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
therebutforgrace
Bumpy,
Some of us care about what's happening in CES because we know the leadership or followers personally.
And most of us care because we care about the Body of Christ, we want any evil to end; and we know that twi-splinter groups have no "synod," "presbyter" or other "higher" governing body of believers to whom they are accountable; therefore we the body of Christ must police ourselves or no one will help end the hurt caused to God's people under their auspices.
As rich just posted in another thread.....We who care about those who have been stricken by the crimes are (as in a court of law) witnessing and speaking in testimony. Since the courts don't handle cases like this, we the Body of Saints get to do it.
Edited by therebutforgraceLink to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
i don't know grace..... (hugs, btw)
yeah i know these people but i think they have a screw loose
and i'm not sure about this "body of saints" getting to do anything
can't wait to hear the final outcome from JC himself
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bumpy
I would like to help you but you need to take care of yourself first. Please, don't use the "body of Christ" too loosely here, there is little you can do. Take care of your own relationship with God and love those around you with all you mind, strength and soul. This world is more evil than any of us can imagine and our death is just a token. I care about the future of CES. John knows that from our commitment to CES. My heart is with these people here contributing their time and heart. Place your heart where it belongs, where rust and moth doth not corrupt. I have to trust in the Lord here more everyday than it's possible to comprehend...this is an Islamic nightmare!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
what is that ?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bumpy
My real name is Bumpy...what's yours? I met John Lynn for the first time in DC in '86, my last US "posting". He was still with the Way. We next met in NC after my last amazing round of golf at Pinehurst the year Payne Stewart died. You figure it out...but I think it was 1999. I played from the back tees and almost tied the couse record until I hit the 5th hole! Oh well, do you do anything but hang out here? How old are you? Are you married, successful, happy with life?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
hey there bumpy. my real name is excathedra. how did you and john lynn manage to meet each other again -- '86 and then '99 ?
congrads on your golfing
you can PM me about the questions
tanks
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bumpy
Well ex, you never answered my questions so what do you want me to say? There are no hidden secrets between me and CES. I just tried to help them with some $$$, but soon it bacame another TWI promotion with books, writers and the rest. Please, I know you are an expert on this site and I am not here to compete with what you know or where you have been. Please, understand I have no grievances with anyone or any organization who is held in contempt here on GS. OK?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
oh shut up
Link to comment
Share on other sites
therebutforgrace
Bumpy,
You are right that each of us need to get our own walk with our Lord together before we can be much help to anyone else. Of course, that's an ongoing thing, too!
Some of us ex-CESers have long known of and spoken up about the cruelties CES leadership has imposed upon some believers. No physical torture or beatings, no kidnapping, not much with the civil authorities (as you and so many others see daily in your countries, b. But cruelty nonetheless. Ruining marriages; breaking up families; poisoning children against their parents; spreading lies/false statements about people, etc.....all because they spoke up to say what was ungodly about the way the group was living. Wes poke up; we were dismisssed or hounded out...and one of us decided enough was enough, and so posted the "prophecies" that CES leadership gave to John Lynn and his wife, and her letter to him explaining her nightmare trying to speak up while married to him.
Thus, evil has been exposed, and so we, the Body of Christ, HAVE helped our brothers and sisters...not just the ones who have been hurt, but the ones doing the hurting. I don't think ANY of them wanted to hurt people. But they were. Talking to them didn't work; there was no one "above them" to talk to, so...enter GreaseSpot! Since they could no longer hide their doings inside the inner circle, they have had to own up to at l east some of them. If they don't own up to the rest of them...and there is no real change...GreaseSpot may again hear of them.
Because of GreaseSpot, people are calling them, writing them, emailing them and I hope it continues until ALL evil is eradicated. Then, we can spend our time winning souls and fighting the devil together instead of separating from each other because of the fighting within.
Edited by therebutforgraceLink to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
ok sorry bumpy if i misunderstood
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
i'm sure i misunderstood
i thought you were making fun of me
my apologies
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Gentle Servant
Some questions:
Just curious why you would support a market niche organization?
You said you were involved with CES? Did you also need a refill?
How are you filling the void nowadays?
Do Tom and Jerry have a research ministry?
I prefer Ben & Jerry's.
I looked up that site you gave me, Jewwatch.com.
So are you really a racist and an anti-semetic? Or is that just your sense of humor?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bumpy
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waterbuffalo
Bumpy, I don't know why, but I kind of like you so far. You shoot from the hip (haven't read all of your posts) and are asking some honest questions.
Did you say you are NOT involved with CES, but had some association with JL?
I'm trying to catch up here.
Also, you have my sincere concern living on a continent where the muslim extremists are commiting genocide everyday for allah. Do you mind if I ask, why are you there? It must be something you really believe in and not just for the money. Forgive me if you've filled in these blanks before.
But, I would say it would p@@@ me off if I were waken up EVERY MORING by that sheet blasting through the air. Do you understand what they're saying? If so, is yours one of the countries that blasts "death to America" everyday during prayer time?
I know what it sounds like because they played it at prayer time all during the day when I was in the Middle East.
Anyway, welcome and settle down and have some fun if you're so inclined. I welcome your perspective.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bumpy
Nice to meet you. I do construction renovation projects in different countries, sell them and try and make some money in the process. I have been here in Senegal about 3 years, taking a month off here and there. Otherwise you go tribal. The morning wake up call usually isn't a big bother as the windows are 6mm security glass...it's the one's that follow which disturb the peace. Senegal is not your "arab terrorist state". It's very peaceful, little in natural resources, rich in music and the arts, but another example of French colonization, in that they inherited the system. The main problem is education, then the lack of economy, the usual corruption and lack of infrastructure. I have water and lights but not on a regular basis.
I have not communicated with CES for the last couple of years when I was in France. When I did I enjoyed the newsletters, sending them a little $$ now and then, and just keeping myself abreast of what they had to say. I never participated in any activities but that's because of distance. I would have liked to have met some of people on this site.
Where were you in the middle east??
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waterbuffalo
Thanks for the reply.
So it's about 1:15pm your time. How hot is it over there in January?
OK. So, you were in twi or at least took PFAL.
Glad to hear Senegal is mostly peaceful for the moment. Sounds like a lucrative business you're in.
Do you mind if I ask where do you call home?
I'll pm you to answer your question.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Captain Crunch
I was surfing the WWW and came across this site which contains some interesting information about CES, Momentus and Personal Prophesy including old posts from CES' message board. The old message board posts are near the bottom. Some of the links are broken, but the ones that aren't, are pretty interesting.
http://ex-ces.faithweb.com/custom4.html.
Somewhere I heard that CES claims that only 2% of the 1200 CES followers that took the Momentus training were disatisfied. I will try to find that.
Oh, I think it is in this interview, pg 26:
http://www.excultworld.com/interviews/ces%20interview.htm
Does anyone now when this interview was done?
I found this quote by Mark Graeser to be interesting, end of page 22:
You heard him, he is INVITING this kind of scrutiny. He wants to know how he shows up.
CC
Edited by Captain CrunchLink to comment
Share on other sites
Holy Smoke
Note to self: Be careful what you ask for. It may be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
or a spider up your nose
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.