This was a nice email about tithing I received recently and saved because it just "fit" for me, and to which I can say, "amen."
What does the Bible say about Christian tithing?
Tithing is an issue that many Christians struggle with. In many churches tithing is over-emphasized. At the same time, many Christians refuse to submit to the Biblical exhortation in regards to making offerings to the Lord. Tithing / giving is intended to be a joy, a blessing. Sadly, that is rarely the case in the church today.
Tithing is an Old Testament concept. The tithe was a requirement of the law in which all Israelites were give 10% of everything they earned and grew to the Tabernacle / Temple (Leviticus 27:30; Numbers 18:26; Deuteronomy 14:24; 2 Chronicles 31:5). Some understand the Old Testament tithe as a method of taxation to provide for the needs of the priests and Levites of the sacrificial system. The New Testament nowhere commands, or even recommends that Christians submit to a legalistic tithe system. Paul states that believers should set aside a portion of their income in order to support the church (1 Corinthians 16:1-2).
The New Testament nowhere assigns a certain percentage of income to set aside, but only says it is to be “in keeping with his income” (1 Corinthians 16:2). The Christian church has essentially taken the 10% figure from the Old Testament tithe and applied it as a “recommended minimum” for Christians in their giving. However, Christians should not feel obligated to always tithe. They should give as they are able, “in keeping with his income.” Sometimes that means giving more than a tithe, sometime that may mean giving less than a tithe.
It all depends on the ability of the Christian and the needs of the church. Each and every Christian should diligently pray and seek God’s wisdom as to whether to participate in tithing and/or for how much he or she should give (James 1:5). “Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver” (2 Corinthians 9:7).
Polar Bear, I remember when I was trying to get my ex-husband to see the doctrinal errors of TWI, especially when he was assigned to teach on the tithe and abundant sharing once. He couldn't find anything in the scriptures "to us" regarding tithe. In fact, I believe tithing isn't even mentioned in the Epistles (been a while).
He ended up having to do some fancy scriptural gymnastics to teach what they wanted him to teach. I believe they picked him to teach it because they knew he would "do the right thing" and find a way to teach what TWI wanted him to teach - "give TWI your money and as much of it as we can get from you - minimum 15%".
Truth is, there's nothing in the New Testament scriptures to advocate people giving money to anyone other than those who need it. We have no Levi Priesthood anymore who are required to live off the offerings (offerings - not money) of the people.
Well, we faced this issue when leaving twi. I lived in absolute terror, convinced that to not tithe was to assigne a death sentance to our family.
I just knew that my husbands stubborness was going to cost us dearly, but being the wife, I had no say so...I was so bitter about what he was doing to our family.
Well, the time went by, the blessings continued, doors opened, we didn`t seem to be affected in anyway.
What we DID do, was to give to other people. whether not charging for home repairs, giving to a family in need, taking care of our elderly neighbors.
Sometimes it was monetary, but more times it was in service.
The blessings seem to flow continuously, us to our neighbors, the neighbors to others, yet others to us....
It was like seeing that God had no hands but our hands...you know, we all took care of each other, yet knew that it was God at work within us...
I saw the beauty of giving verses the law of tithing.
Oh and in 15 years since not tithing, nobody died....none of the promised disasters befell us for not officially tithing, and contrary to what we were taught the blessings increased.
I can only surmise that twi`s understanding of the tithe was in error.
I was also in that position. When you leave twi you go through all this stuff in your mind. We are taught if we don't tithe or abundantly share that God won't even look in your direction.
For the first while I was paranoid about what would happen to me and my family. I finally figured it out. I wanted to understand that God is not going to punish me for not tithing? If God is good always as He says in His word, we shouldn't have to live in fear.
Unfortunatlely that is not the case for twi people. I have a friend still in twi. On a couple of occasions I have given him money, so he won't go into debt, because he's terrified what will happen to him if he stops abs'ing and goes into debt. (He's afraid even to tell his wife about it.) So sad.
I remember one time my overseer wanted me to kick someone out of our fellowship because he had he not been abundantly sharing faithfully. This guy was just starting a business and had a wife and kids. I told him I would not do it, and if he wanted to do that he could do it himself. Well he did it the jerk. My heart went out to this guy, but he had his orders fro HQs and I had no say.
TWI was/is a cult. God quite simply does not "punish" people because they have chosen by free will not to support (either financially or by physical participation) the activities of any given cult. Heck, for all I know, maybe God hands out "atta boys!' for REFUSING to support such activity in his name. That does not negate the blessings that God can give for true giving out of your heart. If it's in your heart to shovel your neighbors' walkway or offer a word of encouragement to someone who has had a bad experience, I say by all means "go for it".You see, when you start to see that what you were involved with was nothing more,nothing less than a common cult, it really helps to put your actual obligation to them into perspective. Some people,sadly, just can't accept that they were hoodwinked by common charlatans. That too is their choice and I'm certain God loves them anyway. Real giving is out of genuine desire to do so and doesn't place restrictions on "what" or "how much" or even "when". "Why",on the other hand, plays the all important lead role.
Unfortunatlely that is not the case for twi people. I have a friend still in twi. On a couple of occasions I have given him money, so he won't go into debt, because he's terrified what will happen to him if he stops abs'ing and goes into debt. (He's afraid even to tell his wife about it.) So sad.
that is indeed sad. I was likewise terrified, until someone revealed to me that they stopped tithing and they were more prosperous than all the years they tried to live up to TWI's rapacious demands for money.
I stopped tithing a while back, too. it sure took a lot of unnecessary pressure off, since I was already deep in debt. I'm deeper in debt now, and I'm sure that the good followers of TWI would try to make me and everyone else think my troubles are a result of my failure to pay God his due, but I know different. the root cause of my financial troubles actually lies with bad leadership and bad teaching to begin with and the principle of the snowball effect. I'm simply paying consequences for trying to be a "good believer". eventually I'll be paid up and free.
I remember talking to a gut who thought of comitting suicide because he was confronted with not tithing because his paycheck was so small he couldn't afford to eat and tithe. I spoke the New Testament to him throughout the night and by the end of that night he was thrilled about there being no law for the New Testament believer to tithe. In fact, after that, he was so turned on to God, on his next paycheck, he dumped the entire thing into the kitty. But not the TWI kitty. He dropped it off at a Catholic church that helped poor people in the town.
Of course, I had to feed him the following week. But he was so thrilled for God, I didn't mind.
Corinthians instructs the Christian believer to give as he purposes in his heart ... no percentages are mentioned or implied. We aren't under the law, so we don't have to give any particular amount ... it is just as we purpose in OUR heart ... not as some organization purposes and then dictates to us. Whatever amount we purpose in our heart to give should be given cheerfully ... not out of fear of what will happen if we don't give. God is not a Mafia boss to whom we pay protection; He is a loving Father.
Corinthians instructs the Christian believer to give as he purposes in his heart ... no percentages are mentioned or implied. We aren't under the law, so we don't have to give any particular amount ... it is just as we purpose in OUR heart ... not as some organization purposes and then dictates to us. Whatever amount we purpose in our heart to give should be given cheerfully ... not out of fear of what will happen if we don't give. God is not a Mafia boss to whom we pay protection; He is a loving Father.
Amen Doglover, I agree.
Here are a couple of articles you may find interesting.
I remember, they would teach that you should give 15%. And that was not net but gross. I often recalled that Jesus said to give to Caeser which was Caesars' and give to God what is Gods'. I used to think while in the Way there was a verse of scripture that says that the rain falls on the just and the unjust. Logically, if the unjust prosper were is the blessing. I believe we have a God that doesn't set conditions.He is a real graceful God. What verse of scriptures hints that He will not spit in our direction if we don't give. I rest my case. I do give money to the church I attend here in Australia and will as they need to spread the gospel and I specifically give it to education as the law allows . GOOD SUBJECT! Oh how my button was pushed in reading this post.
I remember one time my overseer wanted me to kick someone out of our fellowship because he had he not been abundantly sharing faithfully. This guy was just starting a business and had a wife and kids. I told him I would not do it, and if he wanted to do that he could do it himself. Well he did it the jerk. My heart went out to this guy, but he had his orders fro HQs and I had no say.
Polar Bear,
During my twi stint (1973-1991) , there was no mandatory tithe or else you're out.
But, I could see some region or area coordinator getting on some high horse and possibly doing this.
Am interested what time period this was? This is the first I've heard that under orders from hq, someone actually was kicked out for not tithing. Are you sure there weren't any other circumstances besides tithing alone?
"According to the Bible, Abraham tithed once ...
There is only one written record of Abraham tithing.
Whether he tithed a second, third, fourth, fifth, hundredth time; the bible doesn't say.
Lots of accounts of people being kicked out for not tithing, OM, but you wouldn't believe those any more than you believe people were kicked out for buying homes or refusing to sell their homes to get out of TWIt defined debt. <_<
Lots of teachings from HQ on it, too. Your memory is awfully selective and you were in a totally different TWI than 99% of us.
When there were non-tithing believers asked to leave, I suspect it had more to do with reasons other than tithing; although lack of tithing might have been considered another nail in the coffin, so to speak.
To my knowledge, there were never any teachings from hq that tithing was a requirement for admission or continued involvement.
I know that in the past 6 years or so you've been presented with ample evidence and accounts. You just refuse to believe anything negative about your god, OM. I'm not going to waste my time on the foolish.
Oldies---------I have no desire to call you names,argue with you or provide evidence.
I saw exactly this type of thing happen in the late'70's or early '80's. These were people I knew and cared about. This came directly from HQ via verbal communique. At the time, there was rationalization given but in retrospect it was nothing but a smokescreen. If you weren't exposed to it, that's one more thing you can be thankful for. I have posted on it before . I have no desire to debate the issue or re-post what I've already said.
Hi Oldies-I understand how you have doubts about decisions made by HQ. Even though we were taught some great Word in the Way, there is definately a system of error that devolped as an undercurrent to the Word that was being taught. It was though they were holding it over your head. Hey we taught you the Word do what we say.
You have to realize the way started small, things were definately easier, simpler the first several years. But the way grew very fast and there were big finances involved. When big money gets into any organizaton there tends to be more and more pressure put on people to keep the money rolling in. This brings rules, regulations, and soon enough you get greed, corruption. Then you get wrong practice of the Word. Leaders start to get on power trips, people get hurt. I could go on but I'm sure you get what I'm saying. I have no problem with the Word, God is great and He is love. But the way is just an organization made of people.
The fact is the one person who I told had been asked to leave was the tip of the iceburg. And it was, just because of his lack of being able to afford to abs. He had just started his own business. I know of several people who were told to leave because they were not abs'ing.
Some of them were great committed believers.
Some could'nt afford to abs, 10% do to debt and other situations beyond their control.
Some of these people were devastated, and may never get over it. I was there when leadership did it to some of them. I had no say.
Wish I could go back and tell them what jerks they were. They thought they were the cream of the crop, Gods apostles sent down to kick but. They thought they were doing God a favor. They even said that they had gift's in operation because they were the new Corps sent by LCM.
I don't believe you could have been around in the late 90s when LCM told the corps to get rid of people who were not abs'ing. Not only that he alos told us to get rid of people who were not committed, who weren't faithul at coming to fellowships. I was in the Corps I heard him live on Corps nights. I started to comlain about some of the things leadership were doing to people and how they were hurting people. Guess what happend? They changed-LOL. No they raked me over the coals, you would not believe what they did to me and my family. Also I was kicked out of the corps, that's all I will say.
The long and the short of it is the way became more interested in the money they wanted from people rather than people's hearts. Sort of sounds like the religious pharisees.
I wasn't bugged about tithing for a while, but as soon as I showed a desire to go wow and take the advanced class, it was laid on thick... that was in 1989. I think it's quite possible people made it to the mid-nineties without getting kicked out for not tithing, those who came and gave in other ways may have been left alone until they gave a hint of wanting to "make a commitment to God in service".
also, I bet some lucky few had leaders who actually stood in the gap for them. betting most of those leaders were booted out, like you were, polar bear.
I was given a whole $h!tload of grief by leadership because I considered any and all corps sponsorship to be ABS -- as I was giving to twi's future. Made sense to me, but it sure didn't to them. I got called on the carpet more than once for this, and finally told them (leadership) to shove it.
What I gave (and to whom) was MY business, and not theirs.
This was back in the '70s, so they backed down.
Not sure if that tactic would have worked in later years.
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Kit Sober
This was a nice email about tithing I received recently and saved because it just "fit" for me, and to which I can say, "amen."
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Belle
Polar Bear, I remember when I was trying to get my ex-husband to see the doctrinal errors of TWI, especially when he was assigned to teach on the tithe and abundant sharing once. He couldn't find anything in the scriptures "to us" regarding tithe. In fact, I believe tithing isn't even mentioned in the Epistles (been a while).
He ended up having to do some fancy scriptural gymnastics to teach what they wanted him to teach. I believe they picked him to teach it because they knew he would "do the right thing" and find a way to teach what TWI wanted him to teach - "give TWI your money and as much of it as we can get from you - minimum 15%".
Truth is, there's nothing in the New Testament scriptures to advocate people giving money to anyone other than those who need it. We have no Levi Priesthood anymore who are required to live off the offerings (offerings - not money) of the people.
At least, that's the way I see it, ymmv. :)
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Belle
Polar Bear, here's a link to one of the articles where they teach to give everything beyond your need: Josephene Wallace Article
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rascal
Well, we faced this issue when leaving twi. I lived in absolute terror, convinced that to not tithe was to assigne a death sentance to our family.
I just knew that my husbands stubborness was going to cost us dearly, but being the wife, I had no say so...I was so bitter about what he was doing to our family.
Well, the time went by, the blessings continued, doors opened, we didn`t seem to be affected in anyway.
What we DID do, was to give to other people. whether not charging for home repairs, giving to a family in need, taking care of our elderly neighbors.
Sometimes it was monetary, but more times it was in service.
The blessings seem to flow continuously, us to our neighbors, the neighbors to others, yet others to us....
It was like seeing that God had no hands but our hands...you know, we all took care of each other, yet knew that it was God at work within us...
I saw the beauty of giving verses the law of tithing.
Oh and in 15 years since not tithing, nobody died....none of the promised disasters befell us for not officially tithing, and contrary to what we were taught the blessings increased.
I can only surmise that twi`s understanding of the tithe was in error.
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polar bear
Amen to that Rascal-
I was also in that position. When you leave twi you go through all this stuff in your mind. We are taught if we don't tithe or abundantly share that God won't even look in your direction.
For the first while I was paranoid about what would happen to me and my family. I finally figured it out. I wanted to understand that God is not going to punish me for not tithing? If God is good always as He says in His word, we shouldn't have to live in fear.
Unfortunatlely that is not the case for twi people. I have a friend still in twi. On a couple of occasions I have given him money, so he won't go into debt, because he's terrified what will happen to him if he stops abs'ing and goes into debt. (He's afraid even to tell his wife about it.) So sad.
I remember one time my overseer wanted me to kick someone out of our fellowship because he had he not been abundantly sharing faithfully. This guy was just starting a business and had a wife and kids. I told him I would not do it, and if he wanted to do that he could do it himself. Well he did it the jerk. My heart went out to this guy, but he had his orders fro HQs and I had no say.
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waysider
TWI was/is a cult. God quite simply does not "punish" people because they have chosen by free will not to support (either financially or by physical participation) the activities of any given cult. Heck, for all I know, maybe God hands out "atta boys!' for REFUSING to support such activity in his name. That does not negate the blessings that God can give for true giving out of your heart. If it's in your heart to shovel your neighbors' walkway or offer a word of encouragement to someone who has had a bad experience, I say by all means "go for it".You see, when you start to see that what you were involved with was nothing more,nothing less than a common cult, it really helps to put your actual obligation to them into perspective. Some people,sadly, just can't accept that they were hoodwinked by common charlatans. That too is their choice and I'm certain God loves them anyway. Real giving is out of genuine desire to do so and doesn't place restrictions on "what" or "how much" or even "when". "Why",on the other hand, plays the all important lead role.
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potato
that is indeed sad. I was likewise terrified, until someone revealed to me that they stopped tithing and they were more prosperous than all the years they tried to live up to TWI's rapacious demands for money.
I stopped tithing a while back, too. it sure took a lot of unnecessary pressure off, since I was already deep in debt. I'm deeper in debt now, and I'm sure that the good followers of TWI would try to make me and everyone else think my troubles are a result of my failure to pay God his due, but I know different. the root cause of my financial troubles actually lies with bad leadership and bad teaching to begin with and the principle of the snowball effect. I'm simply paying consequences for trying to be a "good believer". eventually I'll be paid up and free.
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Eagle
Rascal, I know where you come from.
I remember talking to a gut who thought of comitting suicide because he was confronted with not tithing because his paycheck was so small he couldn't afford to eat and tithe. I spoke the New Testament to him throughout the night and by the end of that night he was thrilled about there being no law for the New Testament believer to tithe. In fact, after that, he was so turned on to God, on his next paycheck, he dumped the entire thing into the kitty. But not the TWI kitty. He dropped it off at a Catholic church that helped poor people in the town.
Of course, I had to feed him the following week. But he was so thrilled for God, I didn't mind.
Eagle
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DogLover
Corinthians instructs the Christian believer to give as he purposes in his heart ... no percentages are mentioned or implied. We aren't under the law, so we don't have to give any particular amount ... it is just as we purpose in OUR heart ... not as some organization purposes and then dictates to us. Whatever amount we purpose in our heart to give should be given cheerfully ... not out of fear of what will happen if we don't give. God is not a Mafia boss to whom we pay protection; He is a loving Father.
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Outin88.
Doglover said;
Corinthians instructs the Christian believer to give as he purposes in his heart ... no percentages are mentioned or implied. We aren't under the law, so we don't have to give any particular amount ... it is just as we purpose in OUR heart ... not as some organization purposes and then dictates to us. Whatever amount we purpose in our heart to give should be given cheerfully ... not out of fear of what will happen if we don't give. God is not a Mafia boss to whom we pay protection; He is a loving Father.
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Kit Sober
Especially nice story, Eagle. :)
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fellowshipper
I remember, they would teach that you should give 15%. And that was not net but gross. I often recalled that Jesus said to give to Caeser which was Caesars' and give to God what is Gods'. I used to think while in the Way there was a verse of scripture that says that the rain falls on the just and the unjust. Logically, if the unjust prosper were is the blessing. I believe we have a God that doesn't set conditions.He is a real graceful God. What verse of scriptures hints that He will not spit in our direction if we don't give. I rest my case. I do give money to the church I attend here in Australia and will as they need to spread the gospel and I specifically give it to education as the law allows . GOOD SUBJECT! Oh how my button was pushed in reading this post.
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WordWolf
Raf's done some work on this subject.
The upshot of it:
The tithe is never mentioned in the New Testament.
The tithe is never mentioned as being required in the Old Testament.
As Raf himself summarized:
"According to the Bible, Abraham tithed once, and not of his income, and was called the friend of God.
Well, shucks, I tithed once too. Guess I'm covered."
You can get a PDF of Raf's work on this on the main page at
http://www.livingepistlessociety.org/
It's the first link on the left: "An Overview of the Tithe."
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oldiesman
Polar Bear,
During my twi stint (1973-1991) , there was no mandatory tithe or else you're out.
But, I could see some region or area coordinator getting on some high horse and possibly doing this.
Am interested what time period this was? This is the first I've heard that under orders from hq, someone actually was kicked out for not tithing. Are you sure there weren't any other circumstances besides tithing alone?
There is only one written record of Abraham tithing.
Whether he tithed a second, third, fourth, fifth, hundredth time; the bible doesn't say.
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Belle
Lots of accounts of people being kicked out for not tithing, OM, but you wouldn't believe those any more than you believe people were kicked out for buying homes or refusing to sell their homes to get out of TWIt defined debt. <_<
Lots of teachings from HQ on it, too. Your memory is awfully selective and you were in a totally different TWI than 99% of us.
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oldiesman
I really do doubt it.
When there were non-tithing believers asked to leave, I suspect it had more to do with reasons other than tithing; although lack of tithing might have been considered another nail in the coffin, so to speak.
To my knowledge, there were never any teachings from hq that tithing was a requirement for admission or continued involvement.
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Belle
I know that in the past 6 years or so you've been presented with ample evidence and accounts. You just refuse to believe anything negative about your god, OM. I'm not going to waste my time on the foolish.
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oldiesman
To my knowledge there is no evidence at all.
Golly it's so nice to be called names again.
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waysider
Oldies---------I have no desire to call you names,argue with you or provide evidence.
I saw exactly this type of thing happen in the late'70's or early '80's. These were people I knew and cared about. This came directly from HQ via verbal communique. At the time, there was rationalization given but in retrospect it was nothing but a smokescreen. If you weren't exposed to it, that's one more thing you can be thankful for. I have posted on it before . I have no desire to debate the issue or re-post what I've already said.
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polar bear
Hi Oldies-I understand how you have doubts about decisions made by HQ. Even though we were taught some great Word in the Way, there is definately a system of error that devolped as an undercurrent to the Word that was being taught. It was though they were holding it over your head. Hey we taught you the Word do what we say.
You have to realize the way started small, things were definately easier, simpler the first several years. But the way grew very fast and there were big finances involved. When big money gets into any organizaton there tends to be more and more pressure put on people to keep the money rolling in. This brings rules, regulations, and soon enough you get greed, corruption. Then you get wrong practice of the Word. Leaders start to get on power trips, people get hurt. I could go on but I'm sure you get what I'm saying. I have no problem with the Word, God is great and He is love. But the way is just an organization made of people.
The fact is the one person who I told had been asked to leave was the tip of the iceburg. And it was, just because of his lack of being able to afford to abs. He had just started his own business. I know of several people who were told to leave because they were not abs'ing.
Some of them were great committed believers.
Some could'nt afford to abs, 10% do to debt and other situations beyond their control.
Some of these people were devastated, and may never get over it. I was there when leadership did it to some of them. I had no say.
Wish I could go back and tell them what jerks they were. They thought they were the cream of the crop, Gods apostles sent down to kick but. They thought they were doing God a favor. They even said that they had gift's in operation because they were the new Corps sent by LCM.
I don't believe you could have been around in the late 90s when LCM told the corps to get rid of people who were not abs'ing. Not only that he alos told us to get rid of people who were not committed, who weren't faithul at coming to fellowships. I was in the Corps I heard him live on Corps nights. I started to comlain about some of the things leadership were doing to people and how they were hurting people. Guess what happend? They changed-LOL. No they raked me over the coals, you would not believe what they did to me and my family. Also I was kicked out of the corps, that's all I will say.
The long and the short of it is the way became more interested in the money they wanted from people rather than people's hearts. Sort of sounds like the religious pharisees.
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potato
I wasn't bugged about tithing for a while, but as soon as I showed a desire to go wow and take the advanced class, it was laid on thick... that was in 1989. I think it's quite possible people made it to the mid-nineties without getting kicked out for not tithing, those who came and gave in other ways may have been left alone until they gave a hint of wanting to "make a commitment to God in service".
also, I bet some lucky few had leaders who actually stood in the gap for them. betting most of those leaders were booted out, like you were, polar bear.
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dmiller
I was given a whole $h!tload of grief by leadership because I considered any and all corps sponsorship to be ABS -- as I was giving to twi's future. Made sense to me, but it sure didn't to them. I got called on the carpet more than once for this, and finally told them (leadership) to shove it.
What I gave (and to whom) was MY business, and not theirs.
This was back in the '70s, so they backed down.
Not sure if that tactic would have worked in later years.
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bliss
Well, lets see what you think about this MINISTRY!!!!!!!!!!
He says you are to give for all the ''feasts'' too. :blink:
http://www.givingandtithing.com/
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potato
you would most definitely have been M&A's during the "house cleaning" years for such insolent behavior.
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