Short stay, good memories.....

[A la prochaine]

william,

welcome to GSC

wonderful honest post.

thanks for sharing it...

[Hope R.]

Another observation I’ve seen is the difference between the people who took part in the different aspects of TWI. Here's my 2¢ -

TWI 1: The Early Years – c. 1970 – 1985 (pre-dead-MOG) – peace, love and Jesus. Disillusioned middle-class, white teenagers and college kids flock to the farm in Ohio with VP and Dotsie. Everything is illuminated. Liberal peace-niks morph into Nazi-youth. Absolute power corrupts absolutely – LCM has some oil poured on his head and becomes der Fuhrer of New Knoxville.

TWI 2: The POP Years – c. 1985 – 1990/1991 – LCM in his “fog”, splinter groups form and 3 major categories emerge.

1.) Those who believed every word of PoP and believed VP was the MOGFOT; that LCM and others “murdered” VP and had to be de-throned (Geer-ites)

2.) Those who believed that PFAL and VP’s teachings were mostly wrong and must be re-taught or corrected. (CES & others)

3.) Those who longed for the “good old days” of TWI 1 -- even though PFAL was probably flawed -- it wasn’t evil and we were all like-minded (CFF).

TWI loses 4/5ths of it’s followers. The remnant wait around for something to happen.

TWI 3: LCM Reawakens! – c. 1991 – 1999/2000 – LCM teaches Galatians, discredits PoP and those who believe it. Demands loyalty in a 4 page letter. Makes new classes, cancels “old wineskin” programs like WOW and the Rock of Ages. Homophobia and no-debt policy are major doctrinal issues. VP Who?

TWI 4: The Waydale / Grease Spot Years – c. 1990 – present – LCM is exposed thanks to the power of a few brave individuals with a knowledge of the internet. More people leave. Lawsuits are filed and settled. Rosalie Rivenbark installed as president. After that, everything is pretty much downhill.

So it’s not necessarily how long you were in – but WHEN you got in and WHEN you got out.

What I’ve observed is that many people who were involved from the 70’s until shortly before VP died still defend their involvement and belief in all things TWI. They may have been involved for 10 to 15 years – but it is still all “hunky dory-dory” to them.

Then there’s folks like me and Sky – who were there in the early years and stuck around too long -- perhaps because of some kind of mis-guided sense of loyalty. I was in for 29 years – got in in ’71, out in 2000. I saw the good, the bad and the extremely ugly. Trust me, the 70’s were a picnic. Perhaps I would still love the Lord with all my heart if I had gotten in and out by 1980.

Then there are people who got in and out in the 90’s. For them, TWI might have been okay for a couple of years or less. They never knew that it was once a “fun” cult. To them, Eve was always a lesbian.

So before I judge folks who still think VP had it all right, I consider when they were in and when they got out. I don’t think anything can change their minds because their experiences were NOT mine. They can’t change my mind for the same reason. I don’t agree with them and they don’t agree with me – but I’ve given up trying to get them to see things my way. Unless you’ve been there, you can’t.

xoxox

Edited December 30, 2006 by Hope R.

[rascal]

((((cool chef)))) I am sorry. I hope that someday, somewhere some how there is to be a reconing for people that did these things under the guise of being Godly men.

[LG]

TWI 4: The Waydale / Grease Spot Years – c. 1990 – present...

This start date appears to be a typo. Should be "c. 2000 -."

[VeganXTC]

Hope, what an excellent post. It lays out what happened in those eras very clearly so even someone like me can understand what happened.

I left in April of 84, and then for some strange reason decided to give TWI another try in 89. It was a huge shock to come back, and no one would talk to us about what happened. I don't think anyone really knew everything. I stayed a couple of years before I realized how insane it all was.

Thanks, Hope. You helped me see what happened, not only in TWI, but with people's hearts.

[Hope R.]

Thanks LG - but for some reason - I can no longer find the "edit" button in this new format... is it me????

[waterbuffalo]

((((cool chef)))) I am sorry. I hope that someday, somewhere some how there is to be a reconing for people that did these things under the guise of being Godly men.

This one liner came to mind, Rascal as I read your msg. to cool:

Thought for the Day:

It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning. -Bill Watterson, comic strip artist (1958- ), in his comic strip Calvin & Hobbes

[LG]

Thanks LG - but for some reason - I can no longer find the "edit" button in this new format... is it me????

The edit function is time-limited. I think editing is allowed for an hour after posting.

[HCW]

Yet another example that if one regrets their twi stint, they have nobody to blame but themselves.

TWI didn't want folks if folks didn't want to be there.

HUH?

I'm all for the whole "personal responsibility for one's own actions thing," but comments like that, I think, must be addressed.

1. What's up with the assmuption that BLAME must be attributed? ???

2. Why do TWI supporters attibute some sort of "life" to TWI as it is some sort of "being?"

3. Be there? Just where was this "there?"

People had bad experiences at the hands of other PEOPLE.

I had people do & say bad & ugly things to me. I tried not to do bad stuff to people but I'm sure that at some point in time along the way I did or said something that contributed to a bad experience for somebody else.

I guess one could "blame" me of blame folks for what they did to me. But this concept of assigning blame and telling people "you could have left at any time," I think is more of a shield for the wrong doings than anything else.

Why?

Because it fails to address the fact that PEOPLE were doing WRONG in an environment that by its very nature and definition was a search for and a lifetime striving to find and BE RIGHT!!!

There are certain circumstances where you can't (or maybe shouldn't would be a better word) tell people "If you can't stand the heat you shoulda left the kitchen.

The "reality" is that any and every TWI event should have been a safe haven where one could count on people doing their absolute best to be RIGHT, GOOD and all that good stuff.

Fact was, it wasn't.

For as cool as life pretty much EVER was at HQ there was always an underlying sense of some intangible thing that just wasn't "good."

Linda.........I can SO relate.

What did I see during my HQ Staff years?

...1) Unbridled adulation towards wierwille

...2) Several outbursts by wierwille over small stuff

...3) A mentality of elitism....only the very best work here

...4) A pecking order .... and a "who knows who" list

...5) Corporate politics / departmental squabbling

...6) Eyes are watching you......overly suspicious

...7) Trustees....."buddies" with the finance guys

...8) Perks, favortism abounded to those who "served the trustees"

...9) Alcohol....in refrigerators, in abundance.

.......etc. etc.

I was HUGELY disappointed.....from what I saw at twi's "mecca."

I'd like to add an "amen" to all of the above as it specifies the intangible thing I mentioned and add the following perspective.

As an HQ staffer....

Whenever we ran headlong into the "intangible" stuff it became like an invisible sledgehammer. eg; If you weren't buddies w/the finance guys and you asked for a raise because you felt your need had surpassed your salary....

POW! You didn't get the raise.

.... but it was "for a good reason."

There seemed to ALWAYS be a reason for everything that happened that just shouldn't have been going on in the ministry.

Things like: (in numerical order from above)

Some of the Good reasons:

1. VPW is soooooooo great, He's THE man of God for this generation....

(JUST WHO ever said we had to HAVE a "man of God" for EVERY generation?)

2. VPW is just human. (besides YOU were wrong and further, if you don't see it, its because HE is THE man of God - - and YOU"RE not.

3. This is the HQ of GOD's ministry, only the best will do for God.

4. There is no "pecking order" that would be "off the word" it's only fair that seniority counts for something.

5. The ministry IS a corporation after all and no corporation is perfect.

6. My goal for YOU is that YOU be God's best and YOU do YOUR utmost for His Highest. (Its my job as your coordinator to be a good steward of the resources (YOU) that God has entrusted me with.

7. Well. Their office is right across the hall from each other and the trustees have to interact w/ them often on financial decisions "for the ministry."

8. Its not their fault that the trustees want to bless people.

9. We're not under that law, we're under grace. Besides the Bible says, "be not drunken" not don't drink or don't have alcohol in your fridge... at home, in the office, in your custom monogrammed (the believers gave it to me as a GIFT!) flask inside your suit jacket pocket, the glove box in your car, the saddlebags on your motorcycle,....).

etc.,

... having sex w/somebody's WOW sister (or bro' - - insert proper gender [no pun intended] :-) !

Good reason. - - since the word says it' s not good to "burn" (with sexual desire) and that would distract you from moving the word - - AND - - we're not under the law - - - AND - - - the word doesn't SPECIFICALLY say you shouldn't have sex, it says you shouldn't commit adultery - - and you have to be married to commit adultery . We're not married - - SO... as the song says.... "Let's get it on!"

etc,

... since it's MY job here at the center of the move of God's word to be over this specific piece of the ministry, God's gonna tell me what YOU should do before he tells you.

etc.,

"THAT policy was written by people who were inspired by GOD! God won't bless the work of our hands if YOU don't follow it (no matter HOW STUPID, or obsolete said policy was).

In fact said policy was written because we had to get the staff handbook done by the publication deadline. We didn't have anything better at the time & said we'd alter it later after we figured out how the new equipment would fit in what we were doing.

All of the above is part of "WAYHEAD."

There is a BIG difference between making a mistake and hurting someone and intentionally schmoozing up to the decision maker who can give you a raise. OR "scratching his back" to repay him when the time came.

OR. wanting to be a JR. M.O.G. over your little piece of GOD's kingdom.

There was LOT of crap going on throughout the history of TWI.

We largely ignored it, made exccuse for it

or indulged ourselves in it.

Period.

[coolchef]

amen.

period

very well said ,hcw

Edited January 5, 2007 by coolchef

[skyrider]

Bumping a discussion from the past.

Maybe......this will help the SOWER grad.

[Bolshevik]

. . .

. . something inside me snapped, and before either of us knew it, I had grabbed him by the larynx and slammed him against a wall. I pinned him there as I screamed a string of obscenities at him, telling him in no uncertain terms that my relationship with God was none of his business.

. . .

woo! . . . THAT . . . is the awesomest thing I've read on this website.

I'd give it a +473,000,032 if I could.

[waysider]

It's my observation, from my time in The Way, that if you didn't "get with the program" pretty quick, your "stay" was destined for brevity.

[skyrider]

Bump......

To add to current discussion....