That out-of-balance license & law juxtaposition was carefully crafted, in my opinion, to both exert tight control while promoting loose sexuality. More scores for the leaders, got it?
There's also that strong feeling that no one in TWI wants to even APPEAR to be religious in any way shape or form.
SOOOOOOOOOOOOO - read the Bible, pray, go to fellowship BUT also make sure you drink to excess, (because we're free) screw, (because we're not uptight religious Churchgoers) and do whatever you well please (so that you can be all things to all men - and women.)
There's also that horribly overused phrase that many leadership mumbled under their breath:
"It's easier to get forgiveness than permission."
Now, if I used this phrase to someone in my twig, I was considered brilliant and free and not into the law. BUT if I used it when speaking to someone up the Way tree from me - well I got royally reamed.
Personally I hate the phrase. It seems to give license to all sorts of things. I know that it may have started out to be a good phrase - but like many things TWI - it got twisted.
Someone who used to post in these parts, LarryP, put it wonderfully, I think. He said: "Being involved in The Way, was like pouring miracle grow on all your own particular character flaws."
There is no sin consciousness in TWI. Eveyone thinks because they are saved, they are going to heaven and all hell can't stop them. They just forget that they are human and NEED God. But somewhere God was forgotten in the scheme of things in TWI. The Word was TWI or so they thought. I spent many years in TWI forgetting to ask for forgiveness. That is lack of a Christian life IMHO.
Someone who used to post in these parts, LarryP, put it wonderfully, I think. He said: "Being involved in The Way, was like pouring miracle grow on all your own particular character flaws."
THAT'S a Greasespot Gem if I've ever seen one. I shudder to realize the depth of the truth of it.
I spent many years in TWI forgetting to ask for forgiveness. That is lack of a Christian life IMHO.
You know, Notta, when I read that, I could so relate, but it made me think of the other side of the spectrim of people who were so effected by the legalism and the "standing and state" teachings, they were constantly in a state of sin consciousness, belittling themselves for falling so short of unattainable perfection. The being "out of fellowship" thinking -- what a crock!
But I agree with you, that a healthy dose of forgiveness before our Lord's throne, would have been a healthy step in the right direction!
You know, Notta, when I read that, I could so relate, but it made me think of the other side of the spectrim of people who were so effected by the legalism and the "standing and state" teachings, they were constantly in a state of sin consciousness, belittling themselves for falling so short of unattainable perfection. The being "out of fellowship" thinking -- what a crock!
But I agree with you, that a healthy dose of forgiveness before our Lord's throne, would have been a healthy step in the right direction!
J.
The most frustrating thing about being affected by the legalism is that we were told to go read the Word to get back on track. People would do this, and then do many different things directed by their leadership. Never once do I remember being told to ask the Lord for forgiveness. It seemed our forgiveness was "granted" by our works. Not by simples words in a prayer, "Lord, please forgive my wrongdoing." Looking back, it was a great example of how we were not taught to have a real relationship with Him.
It has been many years out of the way, so I don't recall hearing "it is better to ask for forgiveness that to ask for permission", but I have heard this phrase used in the business world many times in the past few years. When I first heard this, I kind of accepted the logic even though something didn't sit right with me. It seems to me that it is becoming standard practice in a lot of circles, to the point where there is no respect for rules or law. It appears to been taken to an the extreme that says "if you can do it and get away with it's okay". Something is wrong in Denmark!
The Once saved always saved mindset is one of the most insidious things to come down the pike.
Because even those who proclaimed it on one breath were forced o deal with the reality that people did bad things.
And that led to the dogma that if you did bad things-you had never been "saved " in the first place.
How much easier to accept the Through Christ we are forgiven, That we will mess up because we are human, and that we can be forgiven for those mess ups too
And that led to the dogma that if you did bad things-you had never been "saved " in the first place.
was this a dogma at one time? I don't remember this one, I'm more familiar with the dogma that a carnal christian is like a dog returning to its vomit, used in particular to invoke judgement by the masses against people who "turned their backs on the ministry" (read, got kicked out or left voluntarily because they disagreed) which would sink them so low that they'd be as corrupt as seed of the serpent, just doing the will of the devil all day long against the ministry.
I'll have to agree, I don't think that was ever a part of Way dogma. That if you did bad things you were never saved.. Since you were saved and there was no turning back, you could do whatever terrible things you wanted, only your rewards at the "bema" they taught were erradicated..
Oh well... SO much for everyone's rewards.. Cause that's what we are living for anyways, right? We live for rewards. I mean, God is my good ol cookie jar to believe for the riches and expect Him to pay out, and when it is all said and done I better have my rewards waiting for me! lol...
What ever happened to a heart that wants to serve and give? Being Christ minded (Who GAVE HIS LIFE....)..
Wayfers have a very small incline, if any, of what it is to be Christ like or walk in his steps. I hear that's their theme this year. I wonder what kind of reahashed garbage they are teaching. I bet it's nothing real like really helping people. TWI's help consists of paying for THE class and sitting through it. Yeah, that's real help if your stomach is empty or if you need a job or a way to get to work or whatever. There are a lot of people in this country who are less fortunate and need more than a stupid Bible class. Jesus would be there helping them get their real needs met and SHOWING them God's love (as opposed to barfing out Bible verses).
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TheEvan
That out-of-balance license & law juxtaposition was carefully crafted, in my opinion, to both exert tight control while promoting loose sexuality. More scores for the leaders, got it?
It's a natural result of the teaching.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Evan's got it right...
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doojable
There's also that strong feeling that no one in TWI wants to even APPEAR to be religious in any way shape or form.
SOOOOOOOOOOOOO - read the Bible, pray, go to fellowship BUT also make sure you drink to excess, (because we're free) screw, (because we're not uptight religious Churchgoers) and do whatever you well please (so that you can be all things to all men - and women.)
It's sick - but there it is.....
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doojable
There's also that horribly overused phrase that many leadership mumbled under their breath:
"It's easier to get forgiveness than permission."
Now, if I used this phrase to someone in my twig, I was considered brilliant and free and not into the law. BUT if I used it when speaking to someone up the Way tree from me - well I got royally reamed.
Personally I hate the phrase. It seems to give license to all sorts of things. I know that it may have started out to be a good phrase - but like many things TWI - it got twisted.
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ex10
Someone who used to post in these parts, LarryP, put it wonderfully, I think. He said: "Being involved in The Way, was like pouring miracle grow on all your own particular character flaws."
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Nottawayfer
There is no sin consciousness in TWI. Eveyone thinks because they are saved, they are going to heaven and all hell can't stop them. They just forget that they are human and NEED God. But somewhere God was forgotten in the scheme of things in TWI. The Word was TWI or so they thought. I spent many years in TWI forgetting to ask for forgiveness. That is lack of a Christian life IMHO.
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ex10
Not to mention, the lack of understanding of what it means to "make Jesus Lord."
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Belle
THAT'S a Greasespot Gem if I've ever seen one.
I shudder to realize the depth of the truth of it. 
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jardinero
Nottawayfer said:
You know, Notta, when I read that, I could so relate, but it made me think of the other side of the spectrim of people who were so effected by the legalism and the "standing and state" teachings, they were constantly in a state of sin consciousness, belittling themselves for falling so short of unattainable perfection. The being "out of fellowship" thinking -- what a crock!
But I agree with you, that a healthy dose of forgiveness before our Lord's throne, would have been a healthy step in the right direction!
J.
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Nottawayfer
The most frustrating thing about being affected by the legalism is that we were told to go read the Word to get back on track. People would do this, and then do many different things directed by their leadership. Never once do I remember being told to ask the Lord for forgiveness. It seemed our forgiveness was "granted" by our works. Not by simples words in a prayer, "Lord, please forgive my wrongdoing." Looking back, it was a great example of how we were not taught to have a real relationship with Him.
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Calflor
It has been many years out of the way, so I don't recall hearing "it is better to ask for forgiveness that to ask for permission", but I have heard this phrase used in the business world many times in the past few years. When I first heard this, I kind of accepted the logic even though something didn't sit right with me. It seems to me that it is becoming standard practice in a lot of circles, to the point where there is no respect for rules or law. It appears to been taken to an the extreme that says "if you can do it and get away with it's okay". Something is wrong in Denmark!
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templelady
The Once saved always saved mindset is one of the most insidious things to come down the pike.
Because even those who proclaimed it on one breath were forced o deal with the reality that people did bad things.
And that led to the dogma that if you did bad things-you had never been "saved " in the first place.
How much easier to accept the Through Christ we are forgiven, That we will mess up because we are human, and that we can be forgiven for those mess ups too
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potato
was this a dogma at one time? I don't remember this one, I'm more familiar with the dogma that a carnal christian is like a dog returning to its vomit, used in particular to invoke judgement by the masses against people who "turned their backs on the ministry" (read, got kicked out or left voluntarily because they disagreed) which would sink them so low that they'd be as corrupt as seed of the serpent, just doing the will of the devil all day long against the ministry.
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TrustAndObey
Potato,
I'll have to agree, I don't think that was ever a part of Way dogma. That if you did bad things you were never saved.. Since you were saved and there was no turning back, you could do whatever terrible things you wanted, only your rewards at the "bema" they taught were erradicated..
Oh well... SO much for everyone's rewards.. Cause that's what we are living for anyways, right? We live for rewards. I mean, God is my good ol cookie jar to believe for the riches and expect Him to pay out, and when it is all said and done I better have my rewards waiting for me! lol...
What ever happened to a heart that wants to serve and give? Being Christ minded (Who GAVE HIS LIFE....)..
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Nottawayfer
Wayfers have a very small incline, if any, of what it is to be Christ like or walk in his steps. I hear that's their theme this year. I wonder what kind of reahashed garbage they are teaching. I bet it's nothing real like really helping people. TWI's help consists of paying for THE class and sitting through it. Yeah, that's real help if your stomach is empty or if you need a job or a way to get to work or whatever. There are a lot of people in this country who are less fortunate and need more than a stupid Bible class. Jesus would be there helping them get their real needs met and SHOWING them God's love (as opposed to barfing out Bible verses).
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excathedra
the oddest thing about "The Way" was it's super legalism and super looseness
very hurtful
gave god a bad name
no love in that picture
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Eagle
Agree wholeheartedly, Exie.
TWI gave God a bad name. They have a chance to turn that around if they take it.
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TheInvisibleDan
They'll need to change their "bad name" first in any effort on their part to turn that around.
And I doubt that would even do it, so long as the "Cafe" remains open.
"The Way International" is indeed a "bad name" that carries way too much baggage.
That's why all their efforts to even advertise on TV will come to nought. Just one look at a search engine will bring people here.
It wouldn't surprise me if they try to change their name sooner or later.
It's much easier than actually changing themselves.
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