Rascal-------You asked about a buffer zone where no unspiritual were allowed to dwell.
I remember quite well and this was part of what I was referring to in my post n the "Impossible To--------" thread when I talked about people being tossed out in the middle of the night if they dared to question authority. This wasn't just a "don't come back to our little twig" kind of thing. This was "get hundreds of miles away before the sun comes up" type of thing. I think this is a face of "the way" that many people never even dreamed existed let alone were exposed to. Scriptural references? Yep. Lots of them were given at the time.
There always seemed to be some kind of way to rationalize this type of thing but I suspect that to be true in any cult.
the buffer zone around HQ (if I'm remembering correctly) was some weird thing where lcm wanted lots of watchdogs and spindoctors in a certain radius of HQ for damage control, although he said it was to prevent devil spirits from taking over the area... maybe the hidden logic that if there were more believers in the area willing to take the hits that the devil couldn't get to HQ so easily?
when I was in CO, someone was M&A'd in a fellowship meeting and told to pack up and leave the state.
Sad to say, but I think a large part of the equation is simply human nature.
Like any of the other pack animals, we tend to have followers and leaders. And leaders don't necessarily need to pass any sort of competency or morality test either. They simply need to be assertive and charismatic and maybe a little authoritarian and the rest of us will fall in line behind them.
I find it interesting, as well, that every "successful" dictatorship uses these same tactics and methods. Exactly the same... charismatic leader, new better direction with special link to God, blind obedience required... you can always trace how folks put these leaders in power because they believed they would do something good (or at least better than what had happened previously) and once they are in power, there are few ways of getting them out of power. Just like a cult.
I got to visit with people still "in" (barely) this week who have some good connections, and I've come away with the realization that twi will not ever go away.
it's not a ministry.
it's a retirement plan for a small, select group of "chosen ones".
here's the unsubstantiated (and distilled) information I gathered:
the trustee cabinet salary is in the 70k/year range, on which they are, interestingly enough, able to purchase nice cars and homes without debt.
TWI does not need ABS. the organization has enough investments that it is self-reliant and can thrive quite well indefinitely without tithes, without meetings, without ministers, without a flock, without classes, without research. ministers, meetings, and members are only to present a pretty veneer of authenticity on the "christian ministry".
the services and fellowships are a sham. there is no longer any research nor is research on the field permitted, the only approved teaching topics at fellowships and STS are from VPW's published works, so basically all the present teachings (or is it still "present truth"???) is a regurgitation of plagerized material compiled 30+ years ago.
I got to visit with people still "in" (barely) this week who have some good connections, and I've come away with the realization that twi will not ever go away.
it's not a ministry.
it's a retirement plan for a small, select group of "chosen ones".
here's the unsubstantiated (and distilled) information I gathered:
the trustee cabinet salary is in the 70k/year range, on which they are, interestingly enough, able to purchase nice cars and homes without debt.
TWI does not need ABS. the organization has enough investments that it is self-reliant and can thrive quite well indefinitely without tithes, without meetings, without ministers, without a flock, without classes, without research. ministers, meetings, and members are only to present a pretty veneer of authenticity on the "christian ministry".
the services and fellowships are a sham. there is no longer any research nor is research on the field permitted, the only approved teaching topics at fellowships and STS are from VPW's published works, so basically all the present teachings (or is it still "present truth"???) is a regurgitation of plagerized material compiled 30+ years ago.
Actually,
the meetings and members are so the IRS doesn't shut them down-
it's so they can appear to be a non-profit organization/religion.
I guess it would cut into the retirement pot to have to pay back corporate taxes on all their ill-begotten gains if they got rid of people.
I imagine that it doesn't cost much at this point to run the "ministry" aspect of the business. people actually pay to go get indoctrinated and work as slaves in the corps program, staff are slaves who work long hours for almost nothing, the properties are owned outright, and the fellowships on the field are virtually cost-free. RC's don't make much, and get no benefits, so they certainly generate more income than they use, enough to pay the slaves their allowance.
but even without the facade of a ministry, I think they'd figure a way out to sustain the retirement plan. they'd just rather not take the financial hit.
all I was really trying to say, though, is that TWI isn't going away because they don't need tithes. they could dwindle down to the point where there are no home fellowships and TWI wouldn't be hurt. numbers just don't matter, all that matters is maintaining the illusion that they're a ministry so they get the corporate compensation package that they are clearly not worth.
the stuff I'm rambling about may not be new to others, but it's new to me and I find it all fascinating, yet disgusting and discouraging.
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waysider
Rascal-------You asked about a buffer zone where no unspiritual were allowed to dwell.
I remember quite well and this was part of what I was referring to in my post n the "Impossible To--------" thread when I talked about people being tossed out in the middle of the night if they dared to question authority. This wasn't just a "don't come back to our little twig" kind of thing. This was "get hundreds of miles away before the sun comes up" type of thing. I think this is a face of "the way" that many people never even dreamed existed let alone were exposed to. Scriptural references? Yep. Lots of them were given at the time.
There always seemed to be some kind of way to rationalize this type of thing but I suspect that to be true in any cult.
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potato
the buffer zone around HQ (if I'm remembering correctly) was some weird thing where lcm wanted lots of watchdogs and spindoctors in a certain radius of HQ for damage control, although he said it was to prevent devil spirits from taking over the area... maybe the hidden logic that if there were more believers in the area willing to take the hits that the devil couldn't get to HQ so easily?
when I was in CO, someone was M&A'd in a fellowship meeting and told to pack up and leave the state.
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George Aar
Sad to say, but I think a large part of the equation is simply human nature.
Like any of the other pack animals, we tend to have followers and leaders. And leaders don't necessarily need to pass any sort of competency or morality test either. They simply need to be assertive and charismatic and maybe a little authoritarian and the rest of us will fall in line behind them.
I wish I hadn't.
Sadder but wiser now...
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rascal
I thought that there was potato.
George, that is a good point, we want to belong, we want to be right.
Anybody with Charisma that stands up and says *I know the way*!! seems irrisistable.
What struck me was how similar all of the techniques to control were.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Perhaps that would have been a good idea for the top twi leaders...
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potato
unfortunately most of them already have spawn.
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rascal
I told my spouse....*as similar as all of theses cults are, for goodness sakes, we should have joined a more interesting one*....lol
The thing that struck me was that all of the groups changed the name of things.
They would assigne some spiritual reason for what was being demanded.
Members were to eshew family contact because of the families lack of ability to understand.
The family members might try to kidnap them or talk them out of the *truth*
It was the same arguments/doctrine used on us, that caused so many to burn their bridges.
So much pain for the family members who weren`t permitted in the lives of the children, grandchildren brothers and sisters ...etc.
The the verses them mentality was universal as well. We have to keep things secret because if the government knew, they would interfere.
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TheHighWay
Rascal,
I find it interesting, as well, that every "successful" dictatorship uses these same tactics and methods. Exactly the same... charismatic leader, new better direction with special link to God, blind obedience required... you can always trace how folks put these leaders in power because they believed they would do something good (or at least better than what had happened previously) and once they are in power, there are few ways of getting them out of power. Just like a cult.
People are people are people are people.
THW
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rascal
You are right. I have friends that are very knowledgeable about history and pointed out the similarities in nazi Germany`s manipulation of people.
The we verses them, the different levels of superiority, the pomp and parade, fake feel good stuff....
The necessity to do unpleasant things for the greater good.
It turns out that they all followed a lunatic.
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potato
I got to visit with people still "in" (barely) this week who have some good connections, and I've come away with the realization that twi will not ever go away.
it's not a ministry.
it's a retirement plan for a small, select group of "chosen ones".
here's the unsubstantiated (and distilled) information I gathered:
the trustee cabinet salary is in the 70k/year range, on which they are, interestingly enough, able to purchase nice cars and homes without debt.
TWI does not need ABS. the organization has enough investments that it is self-reliant and can thrive quite well indefinitely without tithes, without meetings, without ministers, without a flock, without classes, without research. ministers, meetings, and members are only to present a pretty veneer of authenticity on the "christian ministry".
the services and fellowships are a sham. there is no longer any research nor is research on the field permitted, the only approved teaching topics at fellowships and STS are from VPW's published works, so basically all the present teachings (or is it still "present truth"???) is a regurgitation of plagerized material compiled 30+ years ago.
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polar bear
Heard VPW admired Hitler very much. Sounds like too much! Ever try to question leadership, whoa, tried that and was run thru the gauntlet.
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WordWolf
Actually,
the meetings and members are so the IRS doesn't shut them down-
it's so they can appear to be a non-profit organization/religion.
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potato
I guess it would cut into the retirement pot to have to pay back corporate taxes on all their ill-begotten gains if they got rid of people.
I imagine that it doesn't cost much at this point to run the "ministry" aspect of the business. people actually pay to go get indoctrinated and work as slaves in the corps program, staff are slaves who work long hours for almost nothing, the properties are owned outright, and the fellowships on the field are virtually cost-free. RC's don't make much, and get no benefits, so they certainly generate more income than they use, enough to pay the slaves their allowance.
but even without the facade of a ministry, I think they'd figure a way out to sustain the retirement plan. they'd just rather not take the financial hit.
all I was really trying to say, though, is that TWI isn't going away because they don't need tithes. they could dwindle down to the point where there are no home fellowships and TWI wouldn't be hurt. numbers just don't matter, all that matters is maintaining the illusion that they're a ministry so they get the corporate compensation package that they are clearly not worth.
the stuff I'm rambling about may not be new to others, but it's new to me and I find it all fascinating, yet disgusting and discouraging.
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