15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Yeah I know what you mean I am trying to avoid you all I can. Now I am not saying you are one, no thats what I am trying to tell ya. You are the False Prophet you speak about. These things you talk about are your future.
Some technical questions…If someone says they know in the future they will be a prophet – doesn’t that mean they’re a prophet already? And what qualifies them as being false? And – if this person is not yet a false prophet – why are you avoiding them now? Or is it the other way around? How do YOU know being a false prophet is in this person’s future? Are you a prophet? Are you a false prophet?
Man that was a speech. HCW you missed your calling you should been a writer, then you could write a book. Since you wrote for free anyway, lets see if we can find some truth in there. We got my life's story going through how much you hated yourself, and how that went towards the ministry. Then you decided to write out your errors.
Just what was it we were fighting for? Why then, if we were SOOOOO freakin' right, did we "lose?" If GOD be for us WHO can be against us?
You decided disbelieve the truth, and that is why you lost. You had you time to fight for what you believed and the devil walked in and shut it in your faces. You generation on GS is a waste of time, they started fighting when it was over. For example (NOW). Please save us from your stupidity. You walked in a trap eyes wide open and fell. Show me in the bible where it says standing will be easy. Sorry if it were easy every church would do it.
Then for the rest of that crap give me a violin, this is freakin ridiculous. The stupidity blinds you. You should have seen this coming, you should have been equipped to fight. No, you decided to fall like a tree in the forest no one heard a thing. Then in your fall you decided to mope around trying to blame people for there mistakes.
For It Is Written You without sin, you cast the first stone. Any takers
Can anybody tell me the Biblical significance of naming the company's corporate jet parallel to what the President of the US (the most powerful man in the whole freakin' world) calls HIS corporate jet? VPW even had them paint the darn thing thing to look just like the President's plane. He even had the interior done in a similar fashion.
He even had ME design a Founder & President's seal to look like the US President's official seal. They developed official protocals that were the SAME as the the US president's. We even had secret security for VP during major events that was just like the Secret Service.
All this was "necessary." ???
HCW.........thanks for an insider perspective of hq and the man, wierwille.
Interesting...........wierwille's whole ministry work is built on plagairism and he tries to copy the US President's jet, official seal and SS protection to vaunt his image and ego?? What a grandiose pattern of copy-cat cornfield cult crap!! Amazing..........lol.
And no..............I cannot tell you the biblical significance of why wierwille would name twi's plane, Ambassador One, to parallel with the US President's personal jet.
I'm about 18 years out of the ministry and still have some fond memories. I consider myself "fashionable early" as far as leaving goes and my leaving had much to do with the changing teachings of twi as well as fellowships not having the same love, care and concern for its “leaves” as when I first began. But when lcm started to teach things like "unless you abundantly share God won't even spit in your direction" that's when I started having some huge problems.
Even so, I still believe that it is thanks to twi that I love God and Jesus Christ. It is also due to twi that I can function as a person (you know, the basics like working for a living, etc).
I'm not trying to start a debate here, however when we you really get down to it, everyone is plagiarizing what someone else has taught unless they “have their own religion” and came up with something by themselves. I never had a problem with vpw in that area. What was he supposed to do, footnote every teaching he did?
I’ve had some big problems w/him to and assume he’ll have some answering to do (just like me and you), but again, I still have some very fond memories of The Way.
As I’ve always said “They taught me enough to know when it was time to leave”.
Man that was a speech. HCW you missed your calling you should been a writer, then you could write a book. Since you wrote for free anyway, lets see if we can find some truth in there. We got my life's story going through how much you hated yourself, and how that went towards the ministry. Then you decided to write out your errors.
Just what was it we were fighting for? Why then, if we were SOOOOO freakin' right, did we "lose?" If GOD be for us WHO can be against us?
You decided disbelieve the truth, and that is why you lost...
Phew!!! Man that was a speech CK, you missed your calling – you should have been a writer […just a few remedial English classes and you're on your way…and always be humble…remember some people have a way with words and some people…not have way]…no…on second thought…scratch that idea…after considering your signature:
"Thank God for DR.VICTOR PAUL WIERWILLE and the teachings of this wonderful man apostle"
How about being a lawyer? I bet every sexual predator in the country would want you as their defense attorney…I mean - it would be a cinch for yah…You've already got that blind-allegiance to the criminal element going for yah! I'm sure any little obstacles like attending law school, reading books or passing a bar exam wouldn't stop you – not with those amazing powers of believing you've absorbed from your first client, VPW. I can just imagine your closing remarks to the jury:
"Ladies and gentleman of the jury, the ball is in your court. It's up to you to decide. Are you going to believe the…hmmmm…ahhh…rather large multitude of witnesses that have testified of the sexual misconduct of my client – whom I have never met by the way – or are you going to believe me? And if you don't believe me – then more is lost besides just my case. There will be a great big tear in the very fabric of the believing of the sexual predator community. And their loss is your loss because you decided disbelieve the truth, and that is why you lost."
Well, TWI was great for me, and a lot of fun- as long as I turned a blind eye to abuse and worse, and I did observe a lot of that in the early seventies, the "good old days".
TWI served my self-seeking nature, and some of the other worst parts of my character.
Yeah, it was fun, but there was a price- compromise and/or blindness.
I remember sitting in a "leader's" meeting, Limb Leader (yeah, that's what they called them then) and branch cronies.. about 1974.
the wives of these Nimrods had a few rational, logical objections as to how things were being run. Mind you, this was behind closed doors. No attempt to embarrass "THE MAN" in public or anything..
simultaneously, (all three b*stards were smokers) they threw lit cigarettes in their wives faces and hair, along with screaming "woman, shut the .... up". Two of the women I know of divorced, THANK GOD.
The limb guy had been hand-picked by the Vicster himself.
Two small asides if you dont mind then I'll get back to topic....reading Mr Hammernoi's posts made me think of the 70's and TWI
Ham man - I used to work for 73 Magazine if that rings a bell
A couple of years ago a sci-fi fantasy movie came out called "Underworld" Cheesy plot about vampires fighting wierwolves. But there was a lot of action in it for the teenage boys and there were a couple of hot babes to make sure the dads would bring the kids to see it.
The head vampire was phenomenally evil, bloody - really the eiptome of evil - nicely done. His name was Victor. And the thought of Victor fighting Wierwolves (Wierwilles) struck me as very funny.
OK back to topic - yes the 70's sucked and so did the 80's. I have a few fond memories but not of TWI - only of some very good people I met. I left in 87 - and never looked back. Too many things like Mr Hammernoi described. Although I remember smoking some rockin' stuff at the 75 ROA....
Rumrunner! Hey, very good to meet you. Yes, I read quite a few of those magazines. Can't remember everything.. was that the one edited by.. lesse.. W2NSD? Not sure about the call, but his name was Wayne Green.
My current call is KB8PGW.
I got involved in ham radio two years before leaving der vey.
Loy laid out the challenge, "just go look. go look.. its all devil out there.."
so I looked at a civic organization, the local ham club, to see what they were really doing in the community.
...Then for the rest of that crapgive me a violin, this is freakin ridiculous. The stupidity blindsyou. You should have seen this coming, you should have been equipped to fight. No, you decided to fall like a tree in the forest no one heard a thing. Then in your fall you decided to mope around trying to blame people for there mistakes.
For It Is Written You without sin, you cast the first stone. Any takers
CK
Yeah – you can count me in – batter up! I've never committed adultery, never raped anyone, never drugged and raped anyone, never sexually assaulted or molested anyone, never plagiarized, never showed porn videos as part of the Way Corps curriculum, never became an alcoholic - the only glasses he ever used to improve his in-depth spiritual perception and awareness were filled with Drambui…
Let's look at the rest of the crap in your stupefied post. Yes…crap it is – from the very bowels of your father in the Turd. Here's how Darth Raper twisted your reference to John 8 - for his pervert/covert operation. VPW would use the force [Date-rape drug and his position of authority – double entendre fully intended] on his victims. If ever the victims accused him of such despicable acts – he would again employ the force [position of authority + label accuser demon-possessed]. It's one of the best Jedi-mind-tricks around! He didn't have to throw stones at any accusers – he simply got all his followers blinded by stupidity to do that for him! "Let he that is without my motor coach throw this crazy b1tc h off property!"
Yep it was Wayne Green and I'm pretty sure you got his call right. He was a big2, 5 and 80m geek. I never got my license. I worked in the computer lab.
Glad you looked around to "find the devil" LOLOL and instead you found HAM radio.
See you around the forums I need to go get entertained some more in that whack job CES thread
Rumrunner! Hey, very good to meet you. Yes, I read quite a few of those magazines. Can't remember everything.. was that the one edited by.. lesse.. W2NSD? Not sure about the call, but his name was Wayne Green.
My current call is KB8PGW.
I got involved in ham radio two years before leaving der vey.
Loy laid out the challenge, "just go look. go look.. its all devil out there.."
so I looked at a civic organization, the local ham club, to see what they were really doing in the community.
Yeah – you can count me in – batter up! I've never committed adultery, never raped anyone, never drugged and raped anyone, never plagiarized, never showed porn videos
No sin well look everyone we got a look a like Christ. Since we already found Jesus Christ that must make you the anti-christ. Trying to copy every single thing Christ did. Either that or you lied and actually sinned. See know if you did lie about sinning isn't that a sin. Yeah I know you will need a week to think about that. This is how I know you have sinned, the bible says so. For It Is Written: For EVERY man has sinned and come short of the glory of God. You must of missed that verse in the bible. Well it is a good thing I was able to catch up to you and tell you that you were wrong, of course you knew that already. The only person in history to NEVER commit a sin was Jesus Christ, for he was a perfect sacrifice.
You decided disbelieve the truth, and that is why you lost.
Actually,. The reason we "lost" was that we were fighting a losing battle. That was my point, which you obviously missed Cmikeon.
I'll put it bluntly. You cannot win in a fight to "save" TWI no more than any man can add a cubit to his stature by simply thinking it into being.
The point is that the "wrong" elements of VPW's character were as firmly ingrained into the leadership culture of TWI as any "good" parts of him. People, most specifically the leadership, chose to embrace the "I wanna be king" parts of VPW's leadership and the individual weakness in their character cultivated the seeds that VPW had sewn.
You had you time to fight for what you believed and the devil walked in and shut it in your faces.
HUH?
That is PRECISELY what I'm talkin' bout!
You, cmikeon, obviously don't know me at all. Anyone who does know me knows just how reduculous a statement that is.
WHY can't you speak in plain english rather than use idiotic terminology to speak for you?
"...the devil walked in and shut it in your faces..." ???
Just exactly what does THAT mean? I mean, other than a classic example of how much you're controlled by "Wayhead?"
You generation on GS is a waste of time, they started fighting when it was over. For example (NOW). Please save us from your stupidity. You walked in a trap eyes wide open and fell. Show me in the bible where it says standing will be easy. Sorry if it were easy every church would do it.
I'll show you that. Just as soon as YOU show me ANYWHERE in the Bible where it says "standing" will be hard.
Actually, EVERY, church DOES do it.
Some churches "stand" with God "better" than others, of course. The vast, overwhelming majority of churches, however, suffer from the SAME affliction that TWI did and does. Their leader wants more in the deepest depths of his (or her) heart to be KING more than he wants to serve THE king of kings.
On some levels, this "was TWI great" thing, has become VERY simple for me. How is that, you say?
Well, JESUS said it all, very succinctly.
"He who is the greatest among you shall be your servant."
Now, as Oldiesman pointed out, I knew VPW personally. I was more than an acquaintence of his. In fact he actually mentored me, taught me a lot of stuff personally over a period of almost 20 years. I'm an actual, friend of the family of the Wierwilles. A good bit of my interaction w/ him was on a personal basis when nobody else was around.
That being said, I observed him putting in COUNTLESS hours working, studying and serving us all as Founder & President of The Way International. He earned my respect in that regard. I could write LOOOOOONG posts of personally wonderful experiences w/him.
I'm on record here at GS as saying he was like a surrogate Grandfather to me. Coming from me, that is a FABULOUS complement. I used to have twig in his basement. Mrs VPW and Wanda W. would prepare snacks for our twig. On several occasions Mrs. VP showed us her personal photo albums which had photos in it of ALL of the "legndary" stories VP told in the original PFAL class.
Part of my job at HQ was to be the keeper of the TWI hisorical photo archives. In so doing I spent hours & hours w/ the oldest of TWI old timers asking them questions like, "Who are these people in this shot and why does this pitcute matter?" I spent the better part of an entire year organizing shoeboxes of photos, categorizing them and dating them. That project came directly from VPW to me, I reported to him directly about it. We talked about a LOT of "things & stuff about the ministry and had a private relationship that went beyond, student/ teacher or employer/ employee.
It was THAT stuff....
The fact that when VPW found out (unbeknownst to me) that I needed $$$ (as in hundreds) for tuition to finish The Way Corps or be thrown out; he personally paid my tuition. Then he sent me a handwritten note to let me know that it was paid, and by he & Mrs.
I was also one of a handful of people who were there when VPW "passed the mantle" of TWI to LCM. I heard what was said, heard the prayers, the prophecies, manifestations of the spirit, shot photographs of the event, participated in it. It was the rehearsal of what happened at the public ceremony that many of you may have attended. You don't get any more inside TWI than that.
The fact that he had earned enough of my respect that I felt honored to help dig his grave. Doug McM... who was thrown of TWI grounds so famously, was there also. The people who gug it out with shovels, spades and dirt under our fingernails, that list was a "who's who of the "top" leadership of TWI. (I would add that few if any of the present TWI leadership were there.) We all felt, at least at the time that that time was a highlight of our lives.
We did some GREAT and PHENOMENAL things in TWI, contributed to changing the cultural course of "church" in America. Things that are commonplace in churches today, many, many of them we did in TWI 30 years ago.
All that being said. I now believe after many cathartic moments in the almost 20 years of being OUT of TWI that VPW succombed to his desire to be KING. Again, more than his desire to SERVE the King.
CMikeon like to try I dazzle people w/his supposed knowledge of the scriptures. Perhaps it is youth, or at least youth in the same scriptures he purports to know that he missed the simplest of points.
There is a scripture that speaks to the point that those who were among us, but no longer are among us were never actually AMONG us. If they were truly and actually among us, they would still BE WITH US.
That scripture speaks to a simple, unalterable principal.
It is what it is.
TWI is what it is NOW, because it was what it was when it was it.
Things grow.
I tree doesn't grow to become a building.
Bluntly.
If TWI, ever was actually GOOD. It would STILL be good.
It has been a HUGE horse pill going down sideways for me to swallow to come to the conclusion that I was WRONG.
DEAD WRONG.
I used to think that TWI was something good being corrupted by "evil" ones that was worth fighting for.
That's why I spent years of my life "fighting" for it.
What I now see is that the ones I percieved as "evil" and the misdeeds they purpetrated were precisely the same as the sweet smell and pleasant feeling I get when I walk through a flower garden.
Both are the inevitable result of the growth of the seeds that were planted and cultivated by their caretakers.
As much as I may have loved and respected VPW. I'm FORCED to admit by the fruit of his life & minstry that HE was wrong. What he built in TWI was NOT good. Many many of us who helped build TWI accomplished some absolutely AMAZING things. We had some awesome times. God DID bless us with many, many, many signs miracles and wonders (...which follow those that believe - - HIM, that is....).
BUT. The ROOT, in the heart of the heart of the man who was at the helm. As they say in TWI....
His heart wasn't right.
If his heart was right, it would have BEEN right. And in being right he would have DONE right. If his heart was right he would have made different, as in better decisions.
In answer to my own question about the whole, "Ambassador One/President - I'm a really important guy" thing.
I brought that up because: wouldn't it have actually been MORE impressive if one would build an empire that rivals the US government if said empire looked different? I mean Air Force One, really isn't very cool looking... is it?
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I learned how to file in the Way Corps.
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T-Bone
Some technical questions…If someone says they know in the future they will be a prophet – doesn’t that mean they’re a prophet already? And what qualifies them as being false? And – if this person is not yet a false prophet – why are you avoiding them now? Or is it the other way around? How do YOU know being a false prophet is in this person’s future? Are you a prophet? Are you a false prophet?
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ckmkeon
Phew!!!
Man that was a speech. HCW you missed your calling you should been a writer, then you could write a book. Since you wrote for free anyway, lets see if we can find some truth in there. We got my life's story going through how much you hated yourself, and how that went towards the ministry. Then you decided to write out your errors.
Just what was it we were fighting for? Why then, if we were SOOOOO freakin' right, did we "lose?" If GOD be for us WHO can be against us?
You decided disbelieve the truth, and that is why you lost. You had you time to fight for what you believed and the devil walked in and shut it in your faces. You generation on GS is a waste of time, they started fighting when it was over. For example (NOW). Please save us from your stupidity. You walked in a trap eyes wide open and fell. Show me in the bible where it says standing will be easy. Sorry if it were easy every church would do it.
Then for the rest of that crap give me a violin, this is freakin ridiculous. The stupidity blinds you. You should have seen this coming, you should have been equipped to fight. No, you decided to fall like a tree in the forest no one heard a thing. Then in your fall you decided to mope around trying to blame people for there mistakes.
For It Is Written You without sin, you cast the first stone. Any takers
CK
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skyrider
HCW.........thanks for an insider perspective of hq and the man, wierwille.
Interesting...........wierwille's whole ministry work is built on plagairism and he tries to copy the US President's jet, official seal and SS protection to vaunt his image and ego?? What a grandiose pattern of copy-cat cornfield cult crap!! Amazing..........lol.
And no..............I cannot tell you the biblical significance of why wierwille would name twi's plane, Ambassador One, to parallel with the US President's personal jet.
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potato
wonder what happened to CK... I kinda figured he wouldn't respond to HCW... too much Truth. maybe his head exploded.
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ROW
I'm about 18 years out of the ministry and still have some fond memories. I consider myself "fashionable early" as far as leaving goes and my leaving had much to do with the changing teachings of twi as well as fellowships not having the same love, care and concern for its “leaves” as when I first began. But when lcm started to teach things like "unless you abundantly share God won't even spit in your direction" that's when I started having some huge problems.
Even so, I still believe that it is thanks to twi that I love God and Jesus Christ. It is also due to twi that I can function as a person (you know, the basics like working for a living, etc).
I'm not trying to start a debate here, however when we you really get down to it, everyone is plagiarizing what someone else has taught unless they “have their own religion” and came up with something by themselves. I never had a problem with vpw in that area. What was he supposed to do, footnote every teaching he did?
I’ve had some big problems w/him to and assume he’ll have some answering to do (just like me and you), but again, I still have some very fond memories of The Way.
As I’ve always said “They taught me enough to know when it was time to leave”.
ROW
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oldiesman
Me too ROW.
Welcome.
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T-Bone
Phew!!! Man that was a speech CK, you missed your calling – you should have been a writer […just a few remedial English classes and you're on your way…and always be humble…remember some people have a way with words and some people…not have way]…no…on second thought…scratch that idea…after considering your signature:
"Thank God for DR.VICTOR PAUL WIERWILLE and the teachings of this wonderful man apostle"
How about being a lawyer? I bet every sexual predator in the country would want you as their defense attorney…I mean - it would be a cinch for yah…You've already got that blind-allegiance to the criminal element going for yah! I'm sure any little obstacles like attending law school, reading books or passing a bar exam wouldn't stop you – not with those amazing powers of believing you've absorbed from your first client, VPW. I can just imagine your closing remarks to the jury:
"Ladies and gentleman of the jury, the ball is in your court. It's up to you to decide. Are you going to believe the…hmmmm…ahhh…rather large multitude of witnesses that have testified of the sexual misconduct of my client – whom I have never met by the way – or are you going to believe me? And if you don't believe me – then more is lost besides just my case. There will be a great big tear in the very fabric of the believing of the sexual predator community. And their loss is your loss because you decided disbelieve the truth, and that is why you lost."
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rascal
CK, can`t HANDLE the truth. That is why he must savage the people with eye witness accounts of vpw`s debauchery and unfitness as a minister.
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Ham
Well, TWI was great for me, and a lot of fun- as long as I turned a blind eye to abuse and worse, and I did observe a lot of that in the early seventies, the "good old days".
TWI served my self-seeking nature, and some of the other worst parts of my character.
Yeah, it was fun, but there was a price- compromise and/or blindness.
I remember sitting in a "leader's" meeting, Limb Leader (yeah, that's what they called them then) and branch cronies.. about 1974.
the wives of these Nimrods had a few rational, logical objections as to how things were being run. Mind you, this was behind closed doors. No attempt to embarrass "THE MAN" in public or anything..
simultaneously, (all three b*stards were smokers) they threw lit cigarettes in their wives faces and hair, along with screaming "woman, shut the .... up". Two of the women I know of divorced, THANK GOD.
The limb guy had been hand-picked by the Vicster himself.
Maybe Vic shoulda told him, "Mini-me, we don't EAT our cat".
This little anecdote is pretty mild.. there are other things that would REALLY make your hair stand on end..
When were the good old days, really?
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Ham
Now I remember the topic of discussion! It was about implementation of Vic's "tough love" "program".
You know, can't JUST teach them da bible and leave them to their own devices.
Love doesn't work anymore, ya know.. gotta beat the snot out of em if you ever want to get anything done.
I guess they forgot about I Corinthians 13.
The worst part about it all, at least for me:
my silence enabled this kind of behaviour.
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Ham
Maybe he was schizoprenic or something..
Words about the love of God dripped like honey out of one side of his mouth, then bile like this out of the other.
I saw what he did to a copy of "The living Bible", in front of God and the whole world..
Nice and sweet as honey one moment.. then the next..
Good old days? You've gotta be kidding.
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Ham
I won't even mention:
people getting reamed for not breaking the mints for the MOG precisely in half, or quarters..
other leaders flying into fits of rage over insignificant matters, because it was "holy", and "after all, the Vicster does it too.."
A guy driven from a fellowship because he had to get up and go to the bathroom..
Sitting in a leader's meeting, after we "failed" to produce enough students to start a nice PFAL class..
at least one incident that remains so graphic to me, that I'd run it by a moderator before considering posting it..
sheesh.
No thanks, I don't want to go back to the olden days.
Done for now, I think..
:blink:
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Ham
well, heheh.
I can remember the garlics, the cucumbers, the leeks.. the fish..
the wowburgers were pretty good
:bigrin:
doggone clickable smiles aren't working..
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waysider
Mr. Radio Man
"I don't want to go back to the olden days"
Be thankful. There are some amongst us who never left them.
P.S." Mr". sounds so formal. Do you friends call you "Skip"?
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Ham
dont' think I'm not thankful. Funny as it may sound, I am posting this stuff with a smile on my face and joy in my heart.
no formalities here. Nice to meet you. Call me Ham.
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RumRunner
Two small asides if you dont mind then I'll get back to topic....reading Mr Hammernoi's posts made me think of the 70's and TWI
Ham man - I used to work for 73 Magazine if that rings a bell
A couple of years ago a sci-fi fantasy movie came out called "Underworld" Cheesy plot about vampires fighting wierwolves. But there was a lot of action in it for the teenage boys and there were a couple of hot babes to make sure the dads would bring the kids to see it.
The head vampire was phenomenally evil, bloody - really the eiptome of evil - nicely done. His name was Victor. And the thought of Victor fighting Wierwolves (Wierwilles) struck me as very funny.
OK back to topic - yes the 70's sucked and so did the 80's. I have a few fond memories but not of TWI - only of some very good people I met. I left in 87 - and never looked back. Too many things like Mr Hammernoi described. Although I remember smoking some rockin' stuff at the 75 ROA....
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Ham
Rumrunner! Hey, very good to meet you. Yes, I read quite a few of those magazines. Can't remember everything.. was that the one edited by.. lesse.. W2NSD? Not sure about the call, but his name was Wayne Green.
My current call is KB8PGW.
I got involved in ham radio two years before leaving der vey.
Loy laid out the challenge, "just go look. go look.. its all devil out there.."
so I looked at a civic organization, the local ham club, to see what they were really doing in the community.
I'm glad I did.
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T-Bone
Let's look at the rest of the crap in your stupefied post. Yes…crap it is – from the very bowels of your father in the Turd. Here's how Darth Raper twisted your reference to John 8 - for his pervert/covert operation. VPW would use the force [Date-rape drug and his position of authority – double entendre fully intended] on his victims. If ever the victims accused him of such despicable acts – he would again employ the force [position of authority + label accuser demon-possessed]. It's one of the best Jedi-mind-tricks around! He didn't have to throw stones at any accusers – he simply got all his followers blinded by stupidity to do that for him! "Let he that is without my motor coach throw this crazy b1tc h off property!"
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Ham
Priceless..
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RumRunner
Yep it was Wayne Green and I'm pretty sure you got his call right. He was a big2, 5 and 80m geek. I never got my license. I worked in the computer lab.
Glad you looked around to "find the devil" LOLOL and instead you found HAM radio.
See you around the forums I need to go get entertained some more in that whack job CES thread
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ckmkeon
No sin well look everyone we got a look a like Christ. Since we already found Jesus Christ that must make you the anti-christ. Trying to copy every single thing Christ did. Either that or you lied and actually sinned. See know if you did lie about sinning isn't that a sin. Yeah I know you will need a week to think about that. This is how I know you have sinned, the bible says so.
For It Is Written: For EVERY man has sinned and come short of the glory of God. You must of missed that verse in the bible. Well it is a good thing I was able to catch up to you and tell you that you were wrong, of course you knew that already. The only person in history to NEVER commit a sin was Jesus Christ, for he was a perfect sacrifice.
CK
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HCW
I'll put it bluntly. You cannot win in a fight to "save" TWI no more than any man can add a cubit to his stature by simply thinking it into being.
The point is that the "wrong" elements of VPW's character were as firmly ingrained into the leadership culture of TWI as any "good" parts of him. People, most specifically the leadership, chose to embrace the "I wanna be king" parts of VPW's leadership and the individual weakness in their character cultivated the seeds that VPW had sewn.
HUH?
That is PRECISELY what I'm talkin' bout!
You, cmikeon, obviously don't know me at all. Anyone who does know me knows just how reduculous a statement that is.
WHY can't you speak in plain english rather than use idiotic terminology to speak for you?
"...the devil walked in and shut it in your faces..." ???
Just exactly what does THAT mean? I mean, other than a classic example of how much you're controlled by "Wayhead?"
I'll show you that. Just as soon as YOU show me ANYWHERE in the Bible where it says "standing" will be hard.
Actually, EVERY, church DOES do it.
Some churches "stand" with God "better" than others, of course. The vast, overwhelming majority of churches, however, suffer from the SAME affliction that TWI did and does. Their leader wants more in the deepest depths of his (or her) heart to be KING more than he wants to serve THE king of kings.
On some levels, this "was TWI great" thing, has become VERY simple for me. How is that, you say?
Well, JESUS said it all, very succinctly.
"He who is the greatest among you shall be your servant."
Now, as Oldiesman pointed out, I knew VPW personally. I was more than an acquaintence of his. In fact he actually mentored me, taught me a lot of stuff personally over a period of almost 20 years. I'm an actual, friend of the family of the Wierwilles. A good bit of my interaction w/ him was on a personal basis when nobody else was around.
That being said, I observed him putting in COUNTLESS hours working, studying and serving us all as Founder & President of The Way International. He earned my respect in that regard. I could write LOOOOOONG posts of personally wonderful experiences w/him.
I'm on record here at GS as saying he was like a surrogate Grandfather to me. Coming from me, that is a FABULOUS complement. I used to have twig in his basement. Mrs VPW and Wanda W. would prepare snacks for our twig. On several occasions Mrs. VP showed us her personal photo albums which had photos in it of ALL of the "legndary" stories VP told in the original PFAL class.
Part of my job at HQ was to be the keeper of the TWI hisorical photo archives. In so doing I spent hours & hours w/ the oldest of TWI old timers asking them questions like, "Who are these people in this shot and why does this pitcute matter?" I spent the better part of an entire year organizing shoeboxes of photos, categorizing them and dating them. That project came directly from VPW to me, I reported to him directly about it. We talked about a LOT of "things & stuff about the ministry and had a private relationship that went beyond, student/ teacher or employer/ employee.
It was THAT stuff....
The fact that when VPW found out (unbeknownst to me) that I needed $$$ (as in hundreds) for tuition to finish The Way Corps or be thrown out; he personally paid my tuition. Then he sent me a handwritten note to let me know that it was paid, and by he & Mrs.
I was also one of a handful of people who were there when VPW "passed the mantle" of TWI to LCM. I heard what was said, heard the prayers, the prophecies, manifestations of the spirit, shot photographs of the event, participated in it. It was the rehearsal of what happened at the public ceremony that many of you may have attended. You don't get any more inside TWI than that.
The fact that he had earned enough of my respect that I felt honored to help dig his grave. Doug McM... who was thrown of TWI grounds so famously, was there also. The people who gug it out with shovels, spades and dirt under our fingernails, that list was a "who's who of the "top" leadership of TWI. (I would add that few if any of the present TWI leadership were there.) We all felt, at least at the time that that time was a highlight of our lives.
We did some GREAT and PHENOMENAL things in TWI, contributed to changing the cultural course of "church" in America. Things that are commonplace in churches today, many, many of them we did in TWI 30 years ago.
All that being said. I now believe after many cathartic moments in the almost 20 years of being OUT of TWI that VPW succombed to his desire to be KING. Again, more than his desire to SERVE the King.
CMikeon like to try I dazzle people w/his supposed knowledge of the scriptures. Perhaps it is youth, or at least youth in the same scriptures he purports to know that he missed the simplest of points.
There is a scripture that speaks to the point that those who were among us, but no longer are among us were never actually AMONG us. If they were truly and actually among us, they would still BE WITH US.
That scripture speaks to a simple, unalterable principal.
It is what it is.
TWI is what it is NOW, because it was what it was when it was it.
Things grow.
I tree doesn't grow to become a building.
Bluntly.
If TWI, ever was actually GOOD. It would STILL be good.
It has been a HUGE horse pill going down sideways for me to swallow to come to the conclusion that I was WRONG.
DEAD WRONG.
I used to think that TWI was something good being corrupted by "evil" ones that was worth fighting for.
That's why I spent years of my life "fighting" for it.
What I now see is that the ones I percieved as "evil" and the misdeeds they purpetrated were precisely the same as the sweet smell and pleasant feeling I get when I walk through a flower garden.
Both are the inevitable result of the growth of the seeds that were planted and cultivated by their caretakers.
As much as I may have loved and respected VPW. I'm FORCED to admit by the fruit of his life & minstry that HE was wrong. What he built in TWI was NOT good. Many many of us who helped build TWI accomplished some absolutely AMAZING things. We had some awesome times. God DID bless us with many, many, many signs miracles and wonders (...which follow those that believe - - HIM, that is....).
BUT. The ROOT, in the heart of the heart of the man who was at the helm. As they say in TWI....
His heart wasn't right.
If his heart was right, it would have BEEN right. And in being right he would have DONE right. If his heart was right he would have made different, as in better decisions.
In answer to my own question about the whole, "Ambassador One/President - I'm a really important guy" thing.
I brought that up because: wouldn't it have actually been MORE impressive if one would build an empire that rivals the US government if said empire looked different? I mean Air Force One, really isn't very cool looking... is it?
Catch my drift?
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washingtonweather
I will vouch for HCW as I have known him a long time.
and ck--if you think having a grouchy day is the same as raping a woman and blackmailing her husband...you have some issues.
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