Just the other day, my grandson, Cletus(that's his name) was whinnin' and carryin' on about how his new game thingy wouldn't let him get to the next level(whatever the heck that is).I looked him straight in the eye and said "Cletus(that's his name), when I was your age I lived in a commune and slept in a room about the size of your Aunt Minnies' outhouse. There was little else to eat except for birdseed which the city folks called millet and some strange stuff we called familia . I always thought that was a queer kind of name since it didn't look at all familia' to me. "Oh, Grandpa,said Cletus(that's his name),you tell the best fairy tales. How about tellin' that one about that guy who was King Of The World and could make stuff happen just by thinkin' about it?" "Not now, Cletus(that's his name), I have to get all these little hs's and big HS's copied from my old Holy Book into my new Holy Book so's I can stand approved before "The Big Guy". "Who's The Big Guy?, asked Cletus(that's his name)" Why, my twig leader, who else?" said I. Geeze, these kids today don't know nothin'!
Quotes altered: literals according to Wierwillian usage:
"Do what God tells you to do not what people think you should do...unless its me" VPW
"God gave his Word, in the written form, the reason being that He might interpret Himself and His will to us and for us...and then I'll tell you what it really means. The Word of God is the Will of God, and no man or woman...except me can really know the Will of God, without knowing the Word of God. To know God's Word you can not go by tradition, you can not go by the history of so called Christendom, you have to go back to the integrity of the Word...and then take my class. You can not go by what men say, by what theologians say, by what clergy or by what anyone else may say, you have to come back to the Word of God...and only I can take you there" VPW
TWI was always about following men, while saying that they weren't.
I'll be praying for you, including an awesome job for you with great pay and better hours. :) What would you *like* do do? Given no barriers, what would your dream job be?
We see lots of answers to prayer here at the cafe. You'd be amazed at some of them.
Belle,
I really appreciate your posts. They are so full and I only answer a bit or them. I don't know how to take quotes a little at a time.
Anyhows, The perfect job would be day shift 8-4 or 7-3 making a buck more then what I'm making now.....oh heck make it two. With say, some overtime as wanted. Maybe eight hours a week.
Thanks everyone for the welcomes........caring group here.
The Way was great because we had a place to minister "inflow outflow" (emphasis mine)
Does this phrase strike anyone else as being more closely related to being a business buzzword rather than a Christian expression of belief?
I am not meaning to denigrate your beliefs, Patrick and Sarah, but language does have the capacity to influence behavior. The language used by TWI, imnsho, reflects more a business attitude as opposed to one of ministering to God's people.
For example, let's say I called someone a jerk (of course, this is merely a hypothetical construct, I would NEVER do that as a Joisey truck driver ) You might dismiss this comment as my having a bad day. If, on the other hand, I called someone an A HOLE, I would think you would be more cautious around this person. Of course, all this depends on what you think of me and my opinion.
TWI, being the one big dysfunctional family it was/is, used 'loaded' language to its advantage. I think if you look at the language used by it, you'll find more business like terms than Christian ones.
Of course, this opinion will probably be worth what you paid for it. Should you desire to pay me for it, feel free to email me with details of obtaining said funds.
No need to respond to everything, or anything for that matter, Patrick & Sarah. :) If it helps, great! If not, that's okay too. I'm sometimes called 'the mouth of the south', so I continue attempting to live up to that reputation and it requires long posts sometimes.
Waterbuffalo, you look mah-ve-luss!!
Sushi, are you implying that my use of A Hole should be tempered and reduced to the more favorable "jerk"?
This wasn't a written policy but surely one that was taught, you've heard Ex, me, Sunesis, Valerie and others share our little pieces that draw the same picture -- now let's see what JAL said.
Here is a quote off the internet:
John Lynn became part of the Way in the late 60's and was also a Limb Coordinator for Washington DC in 1987 and wrote almost as many Way books as Victor Wierwille. Mr. Lynn wrote that,
"Dr. Wierwille told people that without broadening their sexual activities beyond marriage, they'd "never be able to handle the things of God." A friend of mine told me Dr. Wierwille told her he thought that "a woman gets eternal rewards for blessing a man of God like this." 17
Wierwille also taught as a 'core belief' that, "Sex between married lay people and married Way Corps clergy can be a "one-time healing," rather than sinful adultery or the abuse of a care-taking relationship." 18
Yeah, I'd want my kids to be taught about Jesus by that guy! LOL
Let the good times roll!
He's like the dirty old Santa at the mall, looking for kids to sit on his lap. He asks them what they want and promises to deliver. Only it turns out to be wicked Uncle Ernie in the pleasent context of Santa Claus.
The whole thing was a con..."wicked uncle Ernie", Santa with the cucumber in his pocket, the grinch of happy ho ho...they were all there....they were there to lie to you, to take your money, your innocence, and to suck out your life like a Cajun sucks the brains out of a mudpuppy...hot sauce and all.
I hate to rain on anybody's parade...and sometimes the truth hurts...but these guys were not only conmen who ripped us off and abused us...
...they lied in God's name...and THAT puts them at the bottom of the poop hole.
Call me silly but if my perception of Chrisianity is even close to correct this sort of thing has been happening for centuries.
I feel like some here that my early days with the Way were good. As things progressed and I decided to go into leadership things started going very wrong.
In my case even with the negatives I came away from this organization far better off than before. The fact that there was truth mixed with error is just a part of life. We have an adversary who likes to destroy people every chance he gets. Believe me I can speak from experience having been dumped like trash by the Way after years of faithful service under very stressful circumstances.
reading your original post I caught a bit of a perception that maybe you are doing what I have been doing the past 2 months.
I left twi in september. I was in for 20 years. once I left, I was left with a huge uncertainty about the doctrines twi holds near and dear, especially as they were presented by LCM in the 90s.
the beginning doctrines, easy to swallow: jesus christ is not god, the word of god is your only rule of faith and practice.
that was fine, plenty of good times.
the doctrines became grievous pretty early on for me: you can't have god's protection unless you are tithing a miminum of 10%. if you want to understand spiritual things, you ought to give 15% or more. the suggestion of the man of god is the same as a commandment of god. and one of the best, not out through "official" channels but one that was taught by men at the RC level after a certain BC started stealing ABS to fund an extramarital affair: a sour marriage is the result of the wife withholding sex from her husband.
the good times ended pretty quick and were no more, and in no way can offset the harm that was done.
so I was left in a state of confusion... was it all wrong? is jesus God? is the bible true? is there a God? I needed to work through all those things I'd taken for granted based on a teaching of twi and determine whether I believe them or whether I now hold no opinion or a different opinion.
I have no faith in anything beyond this: God is good....
but I knew that well before twi.
twi is no place for me or anyone who thinks. I'm glad you recognize it's no longer for you. it's pretty flat and lifeless these days and I'm relieved and happy I left.
It is great what you are trying to do but these people here have stone cold hearts. They believe that the sun rises and falls on them. The people hate and destroy all thoughts of good. They produce evil images of the TWI. The thought of greatness in the TWI is a breath of fresh air in this dense fog of disruption. The people here thrive on the hatred of TWI. They are driven to hate, so I am glad you are here, you are welcome but don't expect a happy crowd. They trample on the first thought of that and kill it till you think no one agrees.
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Nottawayfer
ROFLMAOPIMP!!!!!
Dang that was funny!
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Oakspear
TWI was always about following men, while saying that they weren't.
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excathedra
oh i'd love to read this thread someday
but for now i just want to say hi to sarah and patrick
i have 5 brothers and all their middle names are patrick
:)
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T-Bone
Wow - do you all do anything extra special on St. Patrick's Day?
...Oh and a warm welcome to Patrick and Sarah!
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Patrick and Sarah
Belle,
I really appreciate your posts. They are so full and I only answer a bit or them. I don't know how to take quotes a little at a time.
Anyhows, The perfect job would be day shift 8-4 or 7-3 making a buck more then what I'm making now.....oh heck make it two. With say, some overtime as wanted. Maybe eight hours a week.
Thanks everyone for the welcomes........caring group here.
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Sushi
Does this phrase strike anyone else as being more closely related to being a business buzzword rather than a Christian expression of belief?
I am not meaning to denigrate your beliefs, Patrick and Sarah, but language does have the capacity to influence behavior. The language used by TWI, imnsho, reflects more a business attitude as opposed to one of ministering to God's people.
For example, let's say I called someone a jerk (of course, this is merely a hypothetical construct, I would NEVER do that as a Joisey truck driver
) You might dismiss this comment as my having a bad day. If, on the other hand, I called someone an A HOLE, I would think you would be more cautious around this person. Of course, all this depends on what you think of me and my opinion.
TWI, being the one big dysfunctional family it was/is, used 'loaded' language to its advantage. I think if you look at the language used by it, you'll find more business like terms than Christian ones.
Of course, this opinion will probably be worth what you paid for it. Should you desire to pay me for it, feel free to email me with details of obtaining said funds.
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Belle
No need to respond to everything, or anything for that matter, Patrick & Sarah. :) If it helps, great! If not, that's okay too. I'm sometimes called 'the mouth of the south', so I continue attempting to live up to that reputation and it requires long posts sometimes.
Waterbuffalo, you look mah-ve-luss!!
Sushi, are you implying that my use of A Hole should be tempered and reduced to the more favorable "jerk"?
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waterbuffalo
why thanks, belle!
YOU NOTICED!!!!
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Dot Matrix
Oakspear
You said "TWI was always about following men, while saying that they weren't. "
WOW, I loved the truth in that!
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templelady
A good thing is only good if the price you pay to recieve it is in good proportion to what you recieve.
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Sushi
It would depend on what your goal is, Belle. There are times when only a hearty F U will suffice.
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Dot Matrix
To the original Title of the thread-
Yeah, TWI was great, LOL
This wasn't a written policy but surely one that was taught, you've heard Ex, me, Sunesis, Valerie and others share our little pieces that draw the same picture -- now let's see what JAL said.
Here is a quote off the internet:
John Lynn became part of the Way in the late 60's and was also a Limb Coordinator for Washington DC in 1987 and wrote almost as many Way books as Victor Wierwille. Mr. Lynn wrote that,
"Dr. Wierwille told people that without broadening their sexual activities beyond marriage, they'd "never be able to handle the things of God." A friend of mine told me Dr. Wierwille told her he thought that "a woman gets eternal rewards for blessing a man of God like this." 17
Wierwille also taught as a 'core belief' that, "Sex between married lay people and married Way Corps clergy can be a "one-time healing," rather than sinful adultery or the abuse of a care-taking relationship." 18
Yeah, I'd want my kids to be taught about Jesus by that guy! LOL
Let the good times roll!
He's like the dirty old Santa at the mall, looking for kids to sit on his lap. He asks them what they want and promises to deliver. Only it turns out to be wicked Uncle Ernie in the pleasent context of Santa Claus.
What you see is not what ya get.
http://www.seekgod.ca/roodways.htm
edited for spelling
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GrouchoMarxJr
All nine all the time?...
Notice...there are nine guys laughing.
The whole thing was a con..."wicked uncle Ernie", Santa with the cucumber in his pocket, the grinch of happy ho ho...they were all there....they were there to lie to you, to take your money, your innocence, and to suck out your life like a Cajun sucks the brains out of a mudpuppy...hot sauce and all.
I hate to rain on anybody's parade...and sometimes the truth hurts...but these guys were not only conmen who ripped us off and abused us...
...they lied in God's name...and THAT puts them at the bottom of the poop hole.
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Eagle
So TWI was great? It seemed great at first but the fall was even greater...
Eagle
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What The Hey
That's one way they made up for a lousy summer . . .
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Kevlar2000
I blame the (big) bamboo.
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oldiesman
Oakspear, that statement exactly describes the exodus of 1989 in New York State to a tee..
**************
I think TWI was about following both God and men (and women).
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twinot
Call me silly but if my perception of Chrisianity is even close to correct this sort of thing has been happening for centuries.
I feel like some here that my early days with the Way were good. As things progressed and I decided to go into leadership things started going very wrong.
In my case even with the negatives I came away from this organization far better off than before. The fact that there was truth mixed with error is just a part of life. We have an adversary who likes to destroy people every chance he gets. Believe me I can speak from experience having been dumped like trash by the Way after years of faithful service under very stressful circumstances.
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Dot Matrix
Groucho- I agree!
What the Hey- ROTFL
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potato
patrick and sarah,
reading your original post I caught a bit of a perception that maybe you are doing what I have been doing the past 2 months.
I left twi in september. I was in for 20 years. once I left, I was left with a huge uncertainty about the doctrines twi holds near and dear, especially as they were presented by LCM in the 90s.
the beginning doctrines, easy to swallow: jesus christ is not god, the word of god is your only rule of faith and practice.
that was fine, plenty of good times.
the doctrines became grievous pretty early on for me: you can't have god's protection unless you are tithing a miminum of 10%. if you want to understand spiritual things, you ought to give 15% or more. the suggestion of the man of god is the same as a commandment of god. and one of the best, not out through "official" channels but one that was taught by men at the RC level after a certain BC started stealing ABS to fund an extramarital affair: a sour marriage is the result of the wife withholding sex from her husband.
the good times ended pretty quick and were no more, and in no way can offset the harm that was done.
so I was left in a state of confusion... was it all wrong? is jesus God? is the bible true? is there a God? I needed to work through all those things I'd taken for granted based on a teaching of twi and determine whether I believe them or whether I now hold no opinion or a different opinion.
I have no faith in anything beyond this: God is good....
but I knew that well before twi.
twi is no place for me or anyone who thinks. I'm glad you recognize it's no longer for you. it's pretty flat and lifeless these days and I'm relieved and happy I left.
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WordWolf
SPEAK FOR YOURSELF, OLDIESMAN.
SOME OF US made a point of hearing from BOTH SIDES when each had the microphone
before making any decisions, and heard the bosses speak for themselves.
When I left, it was NOT because I was following men.
To be specific, I considered the basics of what one side said-
that the other was placing their own opinions above God-
to have been proven by what the other side said when they had ample time to
give their side.
In short, I REFUSED to follow men, and travelled alongside the NY believers
because they seemed correct to me at the time.
And when that seemed no longer the case, I slipped away.
Perhaps YOUR EXPERIENCE WAS DIFFERENT FROM MINE.
However, your description purported to speak for everyone who left,
and it certainly didnt speak for me,
and it didn't speak for Raf,
since it completely failed to describe the approach EITHER of us used.
A local pinhead, or group of pinheads, no more vilifies one group
than one GREAT local group means the whole organization is of God.
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ckmkeon
Patrick and Sarah,
It is great what you are trying to do but these people here have stone cold hearts. They believe that the sun rises and falls on them. The people hate and destroy all thoughts of good. They produce evil images of the TWI. The thought of greatness in the TWI is a breath of fresh air in this dense fog of disruption. The people here thrive on the hatred of TWI. They are driven to hate, so I am glad you are here, you are welcome but don't expect a happy crowd. They trample on the first thought of that and kill it till you think no one agrees.
CK
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Belle
ROFLMAO!!
And now, Patrick & Sarah, you can see what happens when one doesn't move past what we learned and experienced in TWI.
Especially, the worship of men.
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rascal
*produce evil images of twi*???
Um, I believe the word *witnessed* would be more apropriate :(
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