J.E. Stiles The Gift of the Holy Spirit book

[Grace Valerie Claire]

1 hour ago, rrobs said:

Jesus was certainly kind and thoughtful. He would have seen my heart without anti-vp specs. I think he would have liked me a lot. In fact, I know he would have. He would never have called me a hypocrite. I think that deep down you know that to be true. He would have liked you too.

Rob's, yes he would have liked me, but I think he would have called you a hypocrite; I am quite serious about that.  JC knew when people were real, and when they were using him for their own agendas.  

[Bolshevik]

56 minutes ago, rrobs said:

1Cor 12:7,

But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

If you want the profit, you need the hs. If you don't care about the profit, hs is not necessary.

You've stated this before.

What is the profit?

[Grace Valerie Claire]

2 hours ago, rrobs said:

Unlike everybody else here?

Rob's, I really don't understand why you keep posting here.  I post here because it makes me think.  But people keep asking you questions, and you keep giving them insipid answers.  I think you enjoy ....ing people off; I have a brother like that.  He has mental problems; what's your excuse?? 

[Grace Valerie Claire]

2 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

Wasn't TWIG fellowship the same way?

Bol, in some Twigs yes.  In some no.

[Bolshevik]

4 minutes ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Rob's, I really don't understand why you keep posting here.  I post here because it makes me think.  But people keep asking you questions, and you keep giving them insipid answers.  I think you enjoy ....ing people off; I have a brother like that.  He has mental problems; what's your excuse?? 

Ego defense.

If a Wayfer learns something new, they might find they are wrong on a point, and therefore their system isn't perfect.

They'll have to let go, and move on.  Part of them will die in a way.

Death is from The Adversary.  So we can't have any of that.

 

 

[Grace Valerie Claire]

9 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

Ego defense.

If a Wayfer learns something new, they might find they are wrong on a point, and therefore their system isn't perfect.

They'll have to let go, and move on.  Part of them will die in a way.

Death is from The Adversary.  So we can't have any of that.

 

 

Bol, great post!!  Thanks for answering my question, and making me laugh!!!

[waysider]

Festinger stated that five conditions must be present if someone is to become a more fervent believer after a failure or disconfirmation:

• A belief must be held with deep conviction and it must have some relevance to action, that is, to what the believer does or how he or she behaves.
• The person holding the belief must have committed himself to it; that is, for the sake of his belief, he must have taken some important action that is difficult to undo. In general, the more important such actions are, and the more difficult they are to undo, the greater is the individual's commitment to the belief.
• The belief must be sufficiently specific and sufficiently concerned with the real world so that events may unequivocally refute the belief.
• Such undeniable disconfirmatory evidence must occur and must be recognized by the individual holding the belief.
• The individual believer must have social support. It is unlikely that one isolated believer could withstand the kind of disconfirming evidence that has been specified. If, however, the believer is a member of a group of convinced persons who can support one another, the belief may be maintained and the believers may attempt to proselytize or persuade nonmembers that the belief is correct.

source:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails

 

The section I bolded is the scary part. It not too likely anyone goes 20 years believing PFAL is God-Breathed without a support system to solidify their belief.

Edited July 7, 2017 by waysider

[rrobs]

53 minutes ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Rob's, yes he would have liked me, but I think he would have called you a hypocrite; I am quite serious about that.  JC knew when people were real, and when they were using him for their own agendas.  

Yes Jesus knew only to well people's agenda, but here's what your missing:

1Sam 16:7,

But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

Then there's:

1Cor 4:3,

But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

 

 

[Grace Valerie Claire]

18 minutes ago, waysider said:

Festinger stated that five conditions must be present if someone is to become a more fervent believer after a failure or disconfirmation:

• A belief must be held with deep conviction and it must have some relevance to action, that is, to what the believer does or how he or she behaves.
• The person holding the belief must have committed himself to it; that is, for the sake of his belief, he must have taken some important action that is difficult to undo. In general, the more important such actions are, and the more difficult they are to undo, the greater is the individual's commitment to the belief.
• The belief must be sufficiently specific and sufficiently concerned with the real world so that events may unequivocally refute the belief.
• Such undeniable disconfirmatory evidence must occur and must be recognized by the individual holding the belief.
• The individual believer must have social support. It is unlikely that one isolated believer could withstand the kind of disconfirming evidence that has been specified. If, however, the believer is a member of a group of convinced persons who can support one another, the belief may be maintained and the believers may attempt to proselytize or persuade nonmembers that the belief is correct.

source:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails

 

The section I bolded is the scary part. It not too likely anyone goes 20 years believing PFAL is God-Breathed without a support system to solidify their belief.

Way, interesting post.  Thanks for posting it!!!

[Raf]

23 minutes ago, waysider said:

Festinger stated that five conditions must be present if someone is to become a more fervent believer after a failure or disconfirmation:

• A belief must be held with deep conviction and it must have some relevance to action, that is, to what the believer does or how he or she behaves.
• The person holding the belief must have committed himself to it; that is, for the sake of his belief, he must have taken some important action that is difficult to undo. In general, the more important such actions are, and the more difficult they are to undo, the greater is the individual's commitment to the belief.
• The belief must be sufficiently specific and sufficiently concerned with the real world so that events may unequivocally refute the belief.
• Such undeniable disconfirmatory evidence must occur and must be recognized by the individual holding the belief.
• The individual believer must have social support. It is unlikely that one isolated believer could withstand the kind of disconfirming evidence that has been specified. If, however, the believer is a member of a group of convinced persons who can support one another, the belief may be maintained and the believers may attempt to proselytize or persuade nonmembers that the belief is correct.

source:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails

 

The section I bolded is the scary part. It not too likely anyone goes 20 years believing PFAL is God-Breathed without a support system to solidify their belief.

Are you saying that a group of people reinforcing each other can talk themselves into a lie even though they would otherwise know better?

 

Now WHERE have I heard THAT before?

[rrobs]

2 hours ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Rob's, I really don't understand why you keep posting here.  I post here because it makes me think.  But people keep asking you questions, and you keep giving them insipid answers.  I think you enjoy ....ing people off; I have a brother like that.  He has mental problems; what's your excuse?? 

Well, I was going to save this for DWBH because I don't want him to wear out his 'z' key, but I'll let you have the privilege (you may call it something else. Please, feel free. ) of receiving my final post in this forum. Besides, you asked me for an excuse and you deserve to hear one.

When I first came here I was sincere. My first post was something as benign as saying I didn't care how I learned the word, I was just glad I learned it. Didn't call anybody anything. Well, the first few replies flamed me to the point that if you are right about me and I end up in a lake of fire, at least I'd be used to it. Despite what a lot of people thought, I got the message loud and clear. Nobody wanted to hear my BS. OK.

Then I thought, "hmmm. I think I play with their heads for a while." So Grace, you hit the nail on the head. I put on my troll had and hit the road.

I think it's true to say I caused something of a stir. As far as I know I won a grand total of 0 adherents to the flock I need because my $102,000 pension isn't enough to live on (somebody here was curious about that).

Now here's why I was so mean. I quickly realized how quickly gsc can go anti-someone. No problem as far as it goes but it does pose a serious question? Would it not be just as easy for someone else to come here and win the hearts and minds of one and all. A gentle, kind, intellegent, caring man. All his words would ring as true than anything else you've ever heard. His knowledge of the Bible surpasses all the great theologians that ever lived. You could fall for him just like you did with VP. But it would still be a man. You haven't learned anything since the breakup. Your source of truth went from VP to GSC.

I remember VP saying in an advanced class, "You kids just have head knowledge. You don't really believe it." As much as that may prick your sensibility, it's the absolute truth. You still put man's word above God's word. You seek out the doctrine you want not what God wants you to know. Grace, you have a mind. Put more of God's word into it. Not saying you're not doing that now, but you need to do more. And I'd leave this place in the dust. Wouldn't that be something if you actually took a troll's advice.

So now, I shall take off my troll hat and head for the basement. You guys can get back on subject. Frankly, I'm surprised they've let me stray off for so long. Must be forgiving folks! Thanks.

Edited July 7, 2017 by rrobs
typo

[Bolshevik]

30 minutes ago, rrobs said:

Yes Jesus knew only to well people's agenda, but here's what your missing:

1Sam 16:7,

But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

Then there's:

1Cor 4:3,

But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

 

 

 

It generally bugged me that we were to get "to whom" correct but not so much "from whom".

 

 

[waysider]

4 minutes ago, Raf said:

Are you saying that a group of people reinforcing each other can talk themselves into a lie even though they would otherwise know better?

 

Now WHERE have I heard THAT before?

Well, yeah, but really what I'm saying is that there is another facet to it.

We've probably all heard some variation of the idea that for every rat you see in the open, there's  a bunch more hiding in the dark.When someone comes here over an extended period of time professing that the PFAL book replaces the Bible, you can be pretty sure there's a good chance they've ALREADY created a support system .

[Bolshevik]

6 minutes ago, rrobs said:

. . .

So now, I shall take off my troll hat and head for the basement. You guys can get back on subject. Frankly, I'm surprised they've let me stray off for so long. Must be forgiving folks! Thanks.

Okay, every interaction up to this point has been for our learning.  After this, it's a new administration.  Still the same poster.  

[Grace Valerie Claire]

7 minutes ago, rrobs said:

Well, I was going to save this for DWBH because I don't want him to wear out his 'z' key, but I'll let you have the privilege (you may call it something else. Please, feel free. ) of receiving my final post in this forum. Besides, you asked me for an excuse and you deserve to hear one.

When I first came here I was sincere. My first post was something as benign as saying I didn't care how I learned the word, I was just glad I learned it. Didn't call anybody anything. Well, the first few replies flamed me to the point that if you are right about me and I end up in a lake of fire, at least I'd be used to it. Despite what a lot of people thought, I got the message loud and clear. Nobody wanted to hear my BS. OK.

Then I thought, "hmmm. I think I play with their heads for a while." So Grace, you hit the nail on the head. I put on my troll had and hit the road.

I think it's true to say I caused something of a stir. As far as I know I won a grand total of 0 adherents to my flock because my $102,000 pension isn't enough to live on (somebody here was curious about that).

Now here's why I was so mean. I quickly realized how quickly gsc can go anti-someone. No problem as far as it goes but it does pose a serious question? Would it not be just as easy for someone else to come here and win the hearts and minds of one and all. A gentle, kind, intellegent, caring man. All his words would ring as true than anything else you've ever heard. His knowledge of the Bible surpasses all the great theologians that ever lived. You could fall for him just like you did with VP. But it would still be a man. You haven't learned anything since the breakup. Your source of truth went from VP to GSC.

I remember VP saying in an advanced class, "You kids just have head knowledge. You don't really believe it." As much as that may prick your sensibility, it's the absolute truth. You still put man's word above God's word. You seek out the doctrine you want not what God wants you to know. Grace, you have a mind. Put more of God's word into it. Not saying you're not doing that now, but you need to do more. And I'd leave this place in the dust. Wouldn't that be something if you actually took a troll's advice.

So now, I shall take off my troll hat and head for the basement. You guys can get back on subject. Frankly, I'm surprised they've let me stray off for so long. Must be forgiving folks! Thanks.

Rob's, you make over 100K a year, and that's not enough??!!  Hell, that would be great money even in DC!!  Most people I know, don't even make half that a year, and they live quite well.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

12 minutes ago, rrobs said:

Well, I was going to save this for DWBH because I don't want him to wear out his 'z' key, but I'll let you have the privilege (you may call it something else. Please, feel free. ) of receiving my final post in this forum. Besides, you asked me for an excuse and you deserve to hear one.

When I first came here I was sincere. My first post was something as benign as saying I didn't care how I learned the word, I was just glad I learned it. Didn't call anybody anything. Well, the first few replies flamed me to the point that if you are right about me and I end up in a lake of fire, at least I'd be used to it. Despite what a lot of people thought, I got the message loud and clear. Nobody wanted to hear my BS. OK.

Then I thought, "hmmm. I think I play with their heads for a while." So Grace, you hit the nail on the head. I put on my troll had and hit the road.

I think it's true to say I caused something of a stir. As far as I know I won a grand total of 0 adherents to my flock because my $102,000 pension isn't enough to live on (somebody here was curious about that).

Now here's why I was so mean. I quickly realized how quickly gsc can go anti-someone. No problem as far as it goes but it does pose a serious question? Would it not be just as easy for someone else to come here and win the hearts and minds of one and all. A gentle, kind, intellegent, caring man. All his words would ring as true than anything else you've ever heard. His knowledge of the Bible surpasses all the great theologians that ever lived. You could fall for him just like you did with VP. But it would still be a man. You haven't learned anything since the breakup. Your source of truth went from VP to GSC.

I remember VP saying in an advanced class, "You kids just have head knowledge. You don't really believe it." As much as that may prick your sensibility, it's the absolute truth. You still put man's word above God's word. You seek out the doctrine you want not what God wants you to know. Grace, you have a mind. Put more of God's word into it. Not saying you're not doing that now, but you need to do more. And I'd leave this place in the dust. Wouldn't that be something if you actually took a troll's advice.

So now, I shall take off my troll hat and head for the basement. You guys can get back on subject. Frankly, I'm surprised they've let me stray off for so long. Must be forgiving folks! Thanks.

Rob's, if you want to leave, leave.  If you want to stay, stay.  Up to you.

[waysider]

So there you have it. A guy comes in here under false pretenses, admittedly plays a bunch of deceptive head games and then expects us to grant him some sort of award for his unwavering integrity. Yeah...not so much.

 

A hypocrite in all his might,

So wrong in that he thinks he's right.

Still he hears not

Still he sees not.

Will he?

[Bolshevik]

It was interesting that he would not give his personal interpretation of VPW's writing.  Not The Bible, but what VPW wrote.  

It easy to see why someone would feel the need to make VPW's writings canon.

[waysider]

 

[T-Bone]

3 hours ago, rrobs said:

Didn't you say you were an old guy somewhere? Never know from your responses. Very childish.

Yeah, well…I am a child at heart…just like some other old farts who still like to do childish things like play make-believe, pretend they’re someone else, and then take their bull$hit toys and leave when no one wants to play their stupid game anymore.

[Grace Valerie Claire]

46 minutes ago, waysider said:

So there you have it. A guy comes in here under false pretenses, admittedly plays a bunch of deceptive head games and then expects us to grant him some sort of award for his unwavering integrity. Yeah...not so much.

 

A hypocrite in all his might,

So wrong in that he thinks he's right.

Still he hears not

Still he sees not.

Will he?

Way, same Bullsheet, different day.

[DontWorryBeHappy]

Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz,............zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Snoring here. Is Richie raving???

oh THANK GAWD!!! LMAO! Good riddance moron. Say hi to Ros-a-lie and enjoy your next visit to the waterlogged Nazi's obelisk and monument at the farm. Maybe you can do a fly over in Shithead #1 at the gazebo??? Dude! Get some kind of life besides being an asshole wierwille worshipper and wannabe preacher-player like  your faddah-in-da-woid, and Moishe David.Guess being a horny, frustrated, insanely self-deluded 67 year old loser is a tough way for a former ambassador one pilot to end up. But, hey......it's a living, ain't it?? So long dipshit. See ya here, there, or in the air! LOL!

Edited July 7, 2017 by DontWorryBeHappy

[Grace Valerie Claire]

8 minutes ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz,............zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Snoring here. Is Richie raving???

oh THANK GAWD!!! LMAO! Good riddance moron. Say hi to Ros-a-lie and enjoy your next visit to the waterlogged Nazi's obelisk and monument at the farm. Maybe you can do a fly over in danghead #1 at the gazebo??? Dude! Get some kind of life besides being an .... wierwille worshipper and wannabe preacher-player like  your faddah-in-da-woid, and Moishe David.Guess being a horny, frustrated, insanely self-deluded 67 year old loser is a tough way for a former ambassador one pilot to end up. But, hey......it's a living, ain't it?? So long dipdang. See ya here, there, or in the air! LOL!

DWBH, you knew what he wanted from the get-go.  100K a year for a pension, and that's not enough??!!  How much does a man need to support himself for a year??!!  I guess it depends on the man?!

[Bolshevik]

1 minute ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

DWBH, you knew what he wanted from the get-go.  100K a year for a pension, and that's not enough??!!  How much does a man need to support himself for a year??!!  I guess it depends on the man?!

There's taxes, medical, prolly alimony, legal expenses . . . . Plus tithing, ABS, plurality giving.

 

Which after all that amount to $0.14

[Grace Valerie Claire]

7 hours ago, rrobs said:

Fill me in; what are my real motives and agenda? I thought I knew, but maybe I need your help.

DWBH, summed it up quite well; he wanted people to buy into his JBI .