....maybe I could burn the dead (ahem) Bush I pulled up from the landscape this morning? I was gonna wait until after the polls close on Tuesday.
the burning bush was never consumed, was it? Are you saying you heard the voice of Gawd from Bush? Praise the lord, hap saw the light ... sing it with me hap :)
DMiller’s explanation is good, but what’s kinda missing is the religious angle, which still runs deep even today. It was really a "cult war".
England had not so long before (early 1500s) removed itself from the Roman Catholic church by the simple expedient of Henry VIII having a big fight with the Pope and appointing himself head of the (new) Church of England (to this day, the reigning monarch is technically the head of the Cof E). The monasteries were dissolved and Henry VIII took their wealth into his coffers. The RCs didn’t like this, of course. A very unsettled period followed, with his daughters Elizabeth (Protestant) and Mary (RC) fighting for the throne. Mary called on her loyal RC associates abroad (in particular, the French and Spanish) and it’s from those countries that many of the plotters later came. This is the period of “burning at the stake” (ouch!) for RC heretics – burning to purge out the heresy in their souls.
Mary’s existence made life very difficult for Elizabeth, as Elizabeth, being the child of a second marriage where the first wife was still alive, was considered illegitimate. Mary was executed by Elizabeth’s command in 1587. Elizabeth herself died in 1603, leaving the throne of England to James of Scotland.
A further unsettled period began, leading directly to the Gunpowder Plot of 1605. The RCs thought they could win over or otherwise wrest control from James. A lot of this influence came from continental Europe, but as well as the RC support from overseas, there were also a lot of English supporters in very wealthy families. The plot to blow up the Houses of Parliament was really the last gasp of such determined efforts by the RCs to bring back England into their fold.
Even now, England is considered a Protestant country and there are not so many RCs about.
The conspirators were horridly executed (if drawn and quartered, this occurred after they were hanged, fortunately). I don’t know how they were all killed, I doubt HDQ for all of them, and suspect further burnings at the stake.
Traditionally, in England, a huge bonfire is built. In previous years, a stuffed effigy of Guy Fawkes was plonked on top of it. It burned to the cheers of the crowd surrounding the bonfire. Lots of fireworks were also let off, symbolising the gunpowder explosions that didn’t happen.
The huge public spectacle bonfire persists, though increasingly rare as insurance companies refuse to insure against accidents. In many places, the home (garden) bonfire is still cherished and people have bonfire parties with their friends and neighours.
Haven’t seen a Guy Fawkes in years. When I was a kid, we used to sit in the street with our “guy” collecting change from passers-by. And there were contests in primary school for the “best guy”.
Firework displays have become more and more common and some of them are pretty awesome fireworks too.
Hung, drawn and quartered: I understand that after hanging them they were taken down from the scaffold while they were still alive and their entrails were then "drawn out" in front of their eyes before their heads were chopped off and then their bodies were cut into quarters. If you've seem the film "Braveheart" this is what is depicted at the end, although you don't actually see them drawing out his entrails in the scene. This was a punishment for treason and only done to men. Yikes! (Some say that they also had their genitals cut off). So looks like S_addams getting off lightly, then.
PS Of course the film was Braveheart, the character was William Wallace and the actor was Mel Gibson
Hi Pete. Makes more sense if they were still (partly) alive before the rest of the torture. Guess I got the watered down version. Truly gruesome.
Linda: the quarters were sent to parts N, S, E and W as a warning to other dissidents. I have a feeling that there were occasions when something similar happened in Biblical times.
Nice to know there is some compassion in these little religious cults... (ouch)
When James took over as king after "Bloody" Mary Tudor and then Elizabeth I, he wanted something to unite the country. He also had a personal dislike of the Puritans, and their Bible, the Geneva version, which was the Bible in the hands of most of the Protestants who were rich enough to own one. (The Great Bible of Henry VIII's time was the Bible of the churches, if I recall).
So his Authorized Version was a political move to unite the people around a new version of the Bible, and through it to unite them to King James, who provided this new version in 1611.
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HAPe4me
ummm, maybe I could burn the dead (ahem) Bush I pulled up from the landscape this morning? I was gonna wait until after the polls close on Tuesday.
~HAP
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excathedra
i celebrated simonzelotes's birth
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dmiller
It's late in the day here ---
so I'm celebrating the *bottom of the fifth*!
;)
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SafariVista
huh... never heard of it George~
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dmiller
Guy Fawkes, The Gunpowder Plot and Bonfire Night.
Guy Fawkes and 12 other men conspired to blow up the Houses of Parliament on November 5th, 1605.
Who were these men?
Robert Catesby was the charismatic leader of the group of conspirators.
He had a way with people, and convinced a number of his impressionable friends
to go along with the murderous plan which would later be known as the Gunpowder Plot.
Even as problems with his plot later arose and some members expressed doubt,
Catesby remained convinced that violent action was the only way forward.
Catesby first recruited his close friends and relatives: Thomas Wintour, Jack Wright and Thomas Percy,
but the group quickly grew to include Guy Fawkes.
The small core of conspirators felt Guy would be a strong addition.
Guy was not part of the close knit circle of Catesby's small group,
but he had spent time in the Netherlands and in Spain where he had fought,
many said very well, as a mercenary.
While in Spain he also earned the nickname Guido.
Indeed, he even signed his name Guido Fawkes in a number of places.
He was as passionate about the plight of the Catholics in England as his colleagues.
As a member of the group, he quickly became a trusted member,
and was later charged with the dangerous task of acquiring 36 barrels of gunpowder
and storing them in a rented space beneath the House of Lords.
Soon after Fawkes' addition, others who joined the group were Robert Wintour, Christopher (Kit) Wright,
Robert Keyes, Thomas Bates. Latecomers to the group were John Grant, Ambrose Rookwood,
Francis Tresham, and Everard Digby. In all, there were 13 conspirators in the Gunpowder Plot.
If Robert Catesby was the leader,
how did Guy Fawkes become the most famous member of the Gunpowder Plot?
Guy Fawkes was the one who was caught under the House of Lords with 36 barrels of gunpowder.
For two days, Guido was the only suspect in custody and his name became synonymous
with the Powder Treason, as the Gunpowder Plot was known at the time.
But Guy wasn't in prison alone for long. Soon, many conspirators were either caught outright
as they flew from London, or surrendered shortly thereafter.
Some, however, including the ringleader Robert Catesby,
were killed in a siege within a few days of the failed attempt.
All the conspirators who were not killed in the siege were imprisoned,
tortured, and executed in the most gruesome way
(except Francis Tresham who fell sick and died while in prison).
As is often the case with confessions made under duress, plotters admitted to everything they knew,
and most likely complemented this information with whatever authorities wanted to hear -
in hopes of ending their ordeal. The result was questionable confessions,
likely augmented by authorities for their own purposes.
These confessions incriminated two leading English Jesuits - who, according to some historians,
were unlikely to have had any involvement in the Plot.
Indeed, would most likely have been most opposed to it.
Nevertheless, the government used the Gunpowder Plot to justify further anti-Catholic repression,
including executing at least two Jesuits leaders they felt were threatening to their authority.
All imprisonned plotters were executed publicly in March 1607.
They were "hanged, drawn, and quartered",
a brutal practice which authorities hoped would instill terror in other potential traitors.
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excathedra
i don't know why i know about it. is it something americans commonly know or perhaps because i was married to a dear brit ?
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rhino
Hap saw the li i ight Hap saw the li i ight ...
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Kevlar2000
Watched "V for Vendetta";
Now I can't get Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture out of my head! :)
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RumRunner
Now that was one wierd movie....
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Twinky
DMiller’s explanation is good, but what’s kinda missing is the religious angle, which still runs deep even today. It was really a "cult war".
England had not so long before (early 1500s) removed itself from the Roman Catholic church by the simple expedient of Henry VIII having a big fight with the Pope and appointing himself head of the (new) Church of England (to this day, the reigning monarch is technically the head of the Cof E). The monasteries were dissolved and Henry VIII took their wealth into his coffers. The RCs didn’t like this, of course. A very unsettled period followed, with his daughters Elizabeth (Protestant) and Mary (RC) fighting for the throne. Mary called on her loyal RC associates abroad (in particular, the French and Spanish) and it’s from those countries that many of the plotters later came. This is the period of “burning at the stake” (ouch!) for RC heretics – burning to purge out the heresy in their souls.
Mary’s existence made life very difficult for Elizabeth, as Elizabeth, being the child of a second marriage where the first wife was still alive, was considered illegitimate. Mary was executed by Elizabeth’s command in 1587. Elizabeth herself died in 1603, leaving the throne of England to James of Scotland.
A further unsettled period began, leading directly to the Gunpowder Plot of 1605. The RCs thought they could win over or otherwise wrest control from James. A lot of this influence came from continental Europe, but as well as the RC support from overseas, there were also a lot of English supporters in very wealthy families. The plot to blow up the Houses of Parliament was really the last gasp of such determined efforts by the RCs to bring back England into their fold.
Even now, England is considered a Protestant country and there are not so many RCs about.
The conspirators were horridly executed (if drawn and quartered, this occurred after they were hanged, fortunately). I don’t know how they were all killed, I doubt HDQ for all of them, and suspect further burnings at the stake.
Traditionally, in England, a huge bonfire is built. In previous years, a stuffed effigy of Guy Fawkes was plonked on top of it. It burned to the cheers of the crowd surrounding the bonfire. Lots of fireworks were also let off, symbolising the gunpowder explosions that didn’t happen.
The huge public spectacle bonfire persists, though increasingly rare as insurance companies refuse to insure against accidents. In many places, the home (garden) bonfire is still cherished and people have bonfire parties with their friends and neighours.
Haven’t seen a Guy Fawkes in years. When I was a kid, we used to sit in the street with our “guy” collecting change from passers-by. And there were contests in primary school for the “best guy”.
Firework displays have become more and more common and some of them are pretty awesome fireworks too.
http://www.gunpowder-plot.org (or Google "Gunpowder plot").
So really, you see, it was all a war of the cults. And it’s still going on, just more subtly.
For those that are interested (and still with me), traditional fare is:
Baked potato (sometimes cooked in the embers of the bonfire)
Roast chestnuts
Ale
I didn’t have any of these and stayed home instead. Boring boring.
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Pete
Twinky
Just to add a gruesome note:
Hung, drawn and quartered: I understand that after hanging them they were taken down from the scaffold while they were still alive and their entrails were then "drawn out" in front of their eyes before their heads were chopped off and then their bodies were cut into quarters. If you've seem the film "Braveheart" this is what is depicted at the end, although you don't actually see them drawing out his entrails in the scene. This was a punishment for treason and only done to men. Yikes! (Some say that they also had their genitals cut off). So looks like S_addams getting off lightly, then.
PS Of course the film was Braveheart, the character was William Wallace and the actor was Mel Gibson
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Linda Z
Thanks for the history lessons, Twinky & Pete. Very interesting.
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Twinky
Hi Pete. Makes more sense if they were still (partly) alive before the rest of the torture. Guess I got the watered down version. Truly gruesome.
Linda: the quarters were sent to parts N, S, E and W as a warning to other dissidents. I have a feeling that there were occasions when something similar happened in Biblical times.
Nice to know there is some compassion in these little religious cults... (ouch)
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shazdancer
When James took over as king after "Bloody" Mary Tudor and then Elizabeth I, he wanted something to unite the country. He also had a personal dislike of the Puritans, and their Bible, the Geneva version, which was the Bible in the hands of most of the Protestants who were rich enough to own one. (The Great Bible of Henry VIII's time was the Bible of the churches, if I recall).
So his Authorized Version was a political move to unite the people around a new version of the Bible, and through it to unite them to King James, who provided this new version in 1611.
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