In my opinion God has built so much into His creation…and maybe we take for granted…and perhaps don't acknowledge it as something from Him. Thinking of the great technical and medical advances of man – I marvel at what the mind of man can achieve. I'm so thankful to God I can still get up in the morning and use my mind and body to work at a job – Ecclesiastes 5:19 talks about God empowering man to reap the rewards of his labor – that it is a gift of God.
Deuteronomy 8:18 is another verse that suggests God has put great potential in man, "But you shall remember the Lord your God, for it is He who is giving you power to make wealth, that He may confirm His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day."
I get this idea from passages that refer to the animal kingdom as well.
Psalm 104:21
The young lions roar after their prey, and seek their food from God.
Matthew 6:26
Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them…
I imagine lions know how to hunt and are quite capable of catching their prey. I watch the birds come to the feeders in my backyard and eat the seed that I have placed there – sparrows, dove, and cardinals have discovered this routine – they have to remember where it is and expend energy to fly to them. Occasionally a Cooper's Hawk comes by – she likes to hunt other birds – there's a picture of her in My Gallery. To the naked eye these creatures appear to be endowed with fitting capabilities and resourcefulness. My Christian faith sees wondrous creations with complex - innate qualities from the imagination of my Heavenly Father.
So, to get back to your questions – and where am I going with this – ooops – I don't know…It's funny – I've been thinking about these verses and this idea all day – thought about starting a new thread in doctrinal – but couldn't nail it down – oh that's scary – maybe I was thinking about this for this thread – LOL . I think in my old TWI days I had perhaps a lazy man's way of doing things – didn't think too much – just expected God to give me revelation on something if I needed it.
Well…after leaving TWI – I realized I'm supposed to WORK for a living…Okay – you talked about practical – well I'll go back to Matthew 6:25-34 – Jesus was addressing something very practical – how we tend to center our lives around food and clothing. Not there's anything wrong with food or clothing but it can get us in trouble by our incessant worrying. Jesus kind of pointed out how worry denies God's love, power and wisdom in this section. And I don't see in this passage anything about the "law of believing" or working on my believing or getting my runways uncluttered. I think all that stuff is really worry in disguise - it sounds really spiritual but it's still trying to take the place of the work our Heavenly Father does. Jesus' practical advice in Matthew 6:33,34 is seek FIRST God's kingdom and righteousness, and quit worrying about tomorrow.
I'm not sure what you were trying to convey in your message.
I'm not saying I don't believe in God. I just have lots of questions and really no satisfactory answers.
It seems as though Christianity is sold as some sort of panacea, a cure all for anything and everything that ails you. If you have financial problems, become a christian; you have marital problems, become a christian; you have some terrible disease, become a christian; you have no direction in life, become a christian. It seems like christianity is sold as the answer to whatever ails you, and I think it's a lie.
Should I become a christian so that my life has meaning and purpose? Can't my life have meaning and purpose without being a christian? Should I become a christian so that I have fire insurance for when I die?
I keep hearing how God fills the void in our lives caused by the fall of man and how Jesus enters into our suffering and all of these other things but I just don't understand how They do that on a practical basis. How do God and Jesus do all the things I hear christians say They do? It all seems like a cosmic mind game to me. God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit seem like They're out there somewhere but it all seems like a mental and emotional thing so that we don't feel alone or so that we feel like our lives have meaning and is a way to explain the unknown.
I don't believe I am alone in thinking this way. I just think most people are afraid to say what they really feel because they believe God may do something to them because they are angry at Him or question Him.
I'm not saying I don't believe in God. I just have lots of questions and really no satisfactory answers.
It seems as though Christianity is sold as some sort of panacea, a cure all for anything and everything that ails you. If you have financial problems, become a christian; you have marital problems, become a christian; you have some terrible disease, become a christian; you have no direction in life, become a christian. It seems like christianity is sold as the answer to whatever ails you, and I think it's a lie.
I think you may be right.
I think Christianity sucks as a K-Tel Swiss Pocket Fisherman.
Particularly if the pursuit remains one of "what God can do for us".
I prefer to think the sayings of Christ as practical precepts that are still able to inspire us toward exercising real concern for one another, how we might better treat one another, and even think of one another.
Of fellow human beings. In the here and now.
If that was the only thing to come out of Christianity, that would be sufficient for me.
How I relate to each person I come into contact with throughout the day.
Did I treat that person well, good, fair, and with respect? Did I devote my energy toward helping
them find what they needed? Did I do all I could to remedy a situation?
Did my presence prove beneficial today in that particular spot on this weird planet?
I mean, God doesn't get up in the morning for you, doesn't go to work for you, doesn't give you money, doesn't deal with the mundane details of everyday life and living, doesn't do a myriad of things for you, so how does He help you on a practical, everyday basis?
I think its a matter of perspective. Some people see God's hand in everything that happens, "there are no coincidences in life". God blesses them with good and tries their faith with the bad. Others see the same things happen to everyone and call it part of life. The rain falls on the good and evil. What happens is just luck or fate.
If there ever comes the day when indisputable miracles are again witnessed, changing water to wine, calming the seas, walking on water, it would settle the debate as to whether God is more than a feel good mental exercise.
T-Bone,I'm not sure what you were trying to convey in your message.I'm not saying I don't believe in God. I just have lots of questions and really no satisfactory answers.
It seems as though Christianity is sold as some sort of panacea, a cure all for anything and everything that ails you. If you have financial problems, become a christian; you have marital problems, become a christian; you have some terrible disease, become a christian; you have no direction in life, become a christian. It seems like christianity is sold as the answer to whatever ails you, and I think it's a lie.
Should I become a christian so that my life has meaning and purpose? Can't my life have meaning and purpose without being a christian? Should I become a christian so that I have fire insurance for when I die?
I keep hearing how God fills the void in our lives caused by the fall of man and how Jesus enters into our suffering and all of these other things but I just don't understand how They do that on a practical basis. How do God and Jesus do all the things I hear christians say They do? It all seems like a cosmic mind game to me. God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit seem like They're out there somewhere but it all seems like a mental and emotional thing so that we don't feel alone or so that we feel like our lives have meaning and is a way to explain the unknown.
I don't believe I am alone in thinking this way. I just think most people are afraid to say what they really feel because they believe God may do something to them because they are angry at Him or question Him.
1Searcher – I'm not sure what I was trying to convey in my post either – LOL . I think I was trying to address your question of how God helps us on a practical daily basis – sorry I guess I didn't do much for that. I'm with you – I've got lots of questions and few if any solid answers. Now I think I've got more of a bead on your concerns from your second post. I think a lot of what's been discussed in Bramble's thread on Faith may be relevant here – about a life of faith being a spiritual journey, God's ways being unfathomable, taking an active role in developing our own viewpoint, rafting…anyway…back to what you said…
When you said, "It seems as though Christianity is sold as some sort of panacea, a cure all for anything and everything that ails you" I couldn't agree with you more! I think it cheapens the "real message" of the gospel [which I think only the Holy Spirit knows in terms of how He oversees the Word and however He does it – enables the truth to cut through the bs and go straight to the heart – John 16:7-15 "He will guide you into all truth"; Matthew 16:15-17 "flesh and blood has not revealed this to you"] when anyone hands out their little sales brochure of what Christianity can do for you. I'm as guilty of that as anyone else – but instead of me promoting the wonders of PFAL-power-you-can-have-whatever-you-want like I used to do in the TWI-time of life – I now sometimes lapse into trying to sell my viewpoint. But that really sabotages what I think is part of my purpose as a Christian – which is to present the gospel and encourage the listener to THINK – not to absorb my viewpoint but to figure out their own.
You're not alone in what you feel. I think we all have so many mysteries and cosmic sore spots in our heads – but people are pretty good at putting up a nice "I've-got-it-all-together front." I like what Invisible Dan said about being concerned for how he treats his fellowman – customer service – yes, that's the ticket!
It is the fact I realize I do NOT have it all together front.
humanity realizes we do not have a clue on how to do this thing called life.
I do not care who you are or what you may think the day comes when Life hits like a thunder and we realize it is NOT a predictable event in which we pay the bills go to work and have perfect health and then die.
life is intense and unbelievable often times. so we search we search for an answer a answer to why how when some comfort in the confusion and heart break.
When a person comes to the realization it truly isnt about a prediction or an event or a planned out situation and life is so real we can say it is UNBELIEVABLE.
we seek a higher power somone to help us. a reason a plan , some help please.
and Jesus christ reveals his own self to us.
I do not think all humans need or will become a disciple of Christ the risen Saviour, it isnt for everyone never was never will be.
some are content with life as they want and see to it , it is what it is.
christians seek and search for a higher being a different answer , it is a spiritual thing that has personal ties within the very created soul.
a longing for it is inside . it is a fullfillment of something missing . and it is real to them.
Spirit like love is a personal concept, when religoun is mixed in it can be a complicated mess of hurt, but to be a disciple of Jesus christ is a simple matterof finding a lost soul and going home , like an itch that must be scratched.
for me it isnt so much about "feeling" more of a knowing, over and over agian in my life a knowing that is proven to be a part of who I am .
for those who think it may be just my imagination.. the "God" factor.
could be, but after seeing plenty of "true love marriages" and love gone bad in real life for many, it cant be any different or worse than that can it?
Well, I'd say "'cause you wanna be". I can't think of much else to persuade you.
I know that when I finally gave up on the whole religious aspect of my life, nothing really changed. Life still went on pretty much as always. I had problems and successes, ill health and good, happy times, sad times, abundance and lack. In other words, normal life. I did have a little more time on my hands, though, what with no meetings to go to and no holy writs to study and contemplate, let alone all the time I wasted trying to con something out of some holy-thunderer somewhere (praying).
Wouldn't you think that if there was really THE MOST POWERFUL BEING IN THE UNIVERSE actively concerned with every aspect of my life that I'd have noticed SOMETHING different? But, no. He prefers to keep a pretty low profile, I guess.
And then when I was in Mexico I noticed all the peasants done there, active, DEVOTED Christians, who prayed incessantly, went to church as regular as clockwork, yet they had TREMENDOUS, obvious, basic need in their lives. They went without needed medical care, decent clothing, food and shelter. What are they doing wrong? Is it just that they're the wrong brand? I mean, they are mostly RCs. Maybe that's it. God just hates those damned Catlickers? I dunno.
And then when I visited Cambodia I found out what REAL destitution looked like. Good grief, that place made Mexico look affluent. And yet those people were really devout in their religion as well. Again, maybe God just gets ....ed if you haven't figured out how to worship Him PROPERLY? Then how do you explain people like me? We don't do sheeit to help out the poor 'ol Almighty, yet He continues to shower us with blessings. We're just riding on the coattails of all the GOOD Christians around us? Yeah, that must be it.
And those poor bastards in those S$%thole third-world countries? Well, they're just SOL, God obviously doesn't deliver there...
Proverbs has countless examples. I've heard Proverbs referred to as "Words to live by". I don't know if that is an accurate translation but the concept is expressed in that phrase.
You don't have to be a Christian or have any special belief system to make the wisdom in Proverbs come to life for you. Here's an example:
"A soft answer turns away wrath.(grievous words stir up strife)."
Anyone who works with the public can attest to the value of that little gem.
Is that an example of God helping you? Well, He was,after all, the author.
Is that an example of God helping you? Well, He was,after all, the author.
Is He? Isn't that really what we're discussing? How do you know it just wasn't the ramblings of some old sage? Are people really so stupid that they couldn't cook up a book of mildly intelligent aphorisms?
And if they did, and then somehow or other it gets branded as wisdom from The Almighty, how would we know different?
Sorry, just the sort of things that run through my head whenever I read a "pat answer" type of response.
these are all very interesting, useful and important questions
and they could all use a makeover to make them even more
because they really seem to be jumping into reason at midstream
which we then typically follow out to sea without ever getting to the source of wisdom
imo, its asking even better questions of our first questions that takes us to any sort of wellspring
Why should one be a christian?
i dont think anyone could answer this question very well.
I would have to first ask things like...what do you mean by "christian?"
cuz good old words like 'christian' seem to have lost even more of their use these days
how does God help you on a practical, everyday basis?
as above...but i would add
by practicing better ways of letting God help me on a practical everyday basis
Is it just a mental or emotional thing?
i have found that thoughts and emotions are really just made of the same substance
and that our mind feels
and our heart is highly intelligent
Is it a coping mechanism that helps you deal with life in this world with all of its questions and happiness and tragedies?
yes, but i would say that every single aspect of life itself is a coping mechanism
....even God, whose must ultimately cope with being the only God
Does being a Christian help you feel that you're not alone?
the difficult c-word, again. further complicated by the word 'alone.'
do you mean,
without friends or family in society?
alone as in unmarried? or otherwise without a close partner
alone as in deeply misunderstood?
alone with your joys and triumphs?
alone in the universe as a dying and suffering mortal?
:blink:
I mean, God doesn't get up in the morning for you, doesn't go to work for you, doesn't give you money, doesn't deal with the mundane details of everyday life and living, doesn't do a myriad of things for you, so how does He help you on a practical, everyday basis?
well, that is a bit of a loaded question, complicated by the nebulous G-word
if one believes that God is up in the morning whether i am or not
and God is with me in my work...even when i am working on being lazy
and that God gives all money to anyone who has money...even thieves and thugs
and that God is dealing and moving and being in every mundane myriad detail of life, anyway...
....the final question only seems to work if i agree to your definition of the G-word
:blink:
but...if i was to stick to how i define God from my own experience with scripture, for example...i could answer
...How God Helps Me On a Practical, Everyday Basis...
God helps me on a practical everyday basis
simply by being everwhere present and invisible
without God,
i would not be experiencing
i would not be remembering
i would not be breathing
i would not be feeling
i would not be dreaming
i would not be seeing
tho oddly, i am also that experience
and i am also that memory
and i am also that breath
and i am also that feeler
and i am also that dream
and i am also that seer
and without God
i would not such a fine mirror to see me
and so even the simple feeling of being
is enough of a mirror for me
our eyes feel waves
our ears feel waves
our heart feels waves
our very bones feel in waves
life moves in waves of waves of waves in God
and we are already always soaking wet with the eye and mind of God
and so God teaches me to swim
and teaches me to sink
teaches me to see
teaches me to dream
teaches me to feel
teaches me to breathe
teaches me to remember
teaches me to experience
perhaps simply because they wont stop happening
and they wont stop changing
God is with us as we are being born
God is with us as we are dying
whether or not these things occur on a practical, everyday basis
depends on whether one is practicing them daily, or not
and to what depths and degrees
although...who can choose such things, anyway?
so God helps me choose
by being both hot and cold
by being both near and far
by being both wild and tame
by being both within and without
by being both generic and exotic
by being both invisible and obvious
be being both the one and the many
by being both changing and unchangable
be being both understood and misunderstood
by being both endless and without beginning or end
Well, I'd say "'cause you wanna be". I can't think of much else to persuade you.
I know that when I finally gave up on the whole religious aspect of my life, nothing really changed. Life still went on pretty much as always. I had problems and successes, ill health and good, happy times, sad times, abundance and lack. In other words, normal life. I did have a little more time on my hands, though, what with no meetings to go to and no holy writs to study and contemplate, let alone all the time I wasted trying to con something out of some holy-thunderer somewhere (praying).
Wouldn't you think that if there was really THE MOST POWERFUL BEING IN THE UNIVERSE actively concerned with every aspect of my life that I'd have noticed SOMETHING different? But, no. He prefers to keep a pretty low profile, I guess.
And then when I was in Mexico I noticed all the peasants done there, active, DEVOTED Christians, who prayed incessantly, went to church as regular as clockwork, yet they had TREMENDOUS, obvious, basic need in their lives. They went without needed medical care, decent clothing, food and shelter. What are they doing wrong? Is it just that they're the wrong brand? I mean, they are mostly RCs. Maybe that's it. God just hates those damned Catlickers? I dunno.
And then when I visited Cambodia I found out what REAL destitution looked like. Good grief, that place made Mexico look affluent. And yet those people were really devout in their religion as well. Again, maybe God just gets ....ed if you haven't figured out how to worship Him PROPERLY? Then how do you explain people like me? We don't do sheeit to help out the poor 'ol Almighty, yet He continues to shower us with blessings. We're just riding on the coattails of all the GOOD Christians around us? Yeah, that must be it.
And those poor bastards in those S$%thole third-world countries? Well, they're just SOL, God obviously doesn't deliver there...
I like this post!! had to quote it!
See i believe sometimes people get confused between Santa Clause and God that they must be in the same line of work and have the same relationship with people.
I think this is how folks become bitter towards the idea of a God.. why does that innocent child have to suffer with cancer and this one doesnt?
SEe I do not think Jesus is a "magic man" capable of pointing a wand and fixing all the ills of humanity.
I see it as our legacy and the bible details a book of life that is very detailed in the relationships man can have with God with one another and with evil .
so we can learn how it is.. and become aware of this aspect of life. or not it isnt as though you will not have a life without God ( that is the part I like about your post) and a very good life with happiness and all what it is.
it is a theory that will only be proven when it is said and done and the Saviour will reign in a NEW earth and be KIng of all then finaly Done when He can hand it over to God.
the way i look at it if im wrong not much wil change in my life (like yours) but If im right I can be so eager to anticipate the promise of the story as it unfolds!
Well, I'd say "'cause you wanna be". I can't think of much else to persuade you.
I know that when I finally gave up on the whole religious aspect of my life, nothing really changed. Life still went on pretty much as always. I had problems and successes, ill health and good, happy times, sad times, abundance and lack. In other words, normal life. I did have a little more time on my hands, though, what with no meetings to go to and no holy writs to study and contemplate, let alone all the time I wasted trying to con something out of some holy-thunderer somewhere (praying).
Wouldn't you think that if there was really THE MOST POWERFUL BEING IN THE UNIVERSE actively concerned with every aspect of my life that I'd have noticed SOMETHING different? But, no. He prefers to keep a pretty low profile, I guess.
And then when I was in Mexico I noticed all the peasants done there, active, DEVOTED Christians, who prayed incessantly, went to church as regular as clockwork, yet they had TREMENDOUS, obvious, basic need in their lives. They went without needed medical care, decent clothing, food and shelter. What are they doing wrong? Is it just that they're the wrong brand? I mean, they are mostly RCs. Maybe that's it. God just hates those damned Catlickers? I dunno.
And then when I visited Cambodia I found out what REAL destitution looked like. Good grief, that place made Mexico look affluent. And yet those people were really devout in their religion as well. Again, maybe God just gets ....ed if you haven't figured out how to worship Him PROPERLY? Then how do you explain people like me? We don't do sheeit to help out the poor 'ol Almighty, yet He continues to shower us with blessings. We're just riding on the coattails of all the GOOD Christians around us? Yeah, that must be it.
And those poor bastards in those S$%thole third-world countries? Well, they're just SOL, God obviously doesn't deliver there...
I have to agree with yah on the "cause you wanna be" - for what ever belief system a person chooses.
When you say nothing has changed - and give your list of everything except having more time - I agree with you there too - as far as when I left TWI. However, what has changed is obviously your viewpoint. And if I do say so myself - I also find it a little frustrating that God does keep such a low profile .
As far as God continuing to shower His blessings on everybody - Jesus did talk about God's love being universal - causing His sun to rise on the bad and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous [Matthew 5:45]...I know...you don't believe the Bible is true - but I was just answering your question how do I explain people like you :) .
I mean, God doesn't get up in the morning for you, doesn't go to work for you, doesn't give you money, doesn't deal with the mundane details of everyday life and living, doesn't do a myriad of things for you, so how does He help you on a practical, everyday basis?
Nice question, a short answer would be that life has broadened for me.
Over time my "faith" contributes a sense of the world I see and live in that's informed by teh part of it I can't, that's usually referred to as "spiritual". The one is completely involved with the other, the physical stuff and the spiritual stuff.
The most concrete way to describe this is that it's time-based. Physical stuff has a shelf life, a life cyle and life span. The spirtual side of life does too, in that it's "eternal" and is the part of life that will go on "forever".
Christianity presents a life cycle and span that's longer than this phsical lifetime, that will go on after the body dies. Which isn't to say I'm in it for the promise of a long future, but rather that I believe that's going to be the case, that our lives and who we are now will extend into an "eternal" life cycle and span that's longer than this present life.
Christianity - the teachings and the life of Jesus puts a "face" on God and how life should be lived correctly. Each day I can attempt to live in a way that reflects that. The more I consider living that way and try to understand life as Jesus taught and lived it the more I feel "right", in tune and in harmony with myself and others, regardless of whether they "believe" how I do - it doesn't matter overall in the bigger picture whether others do or not, as I live as if we're all working under the same condions of life, to varying and very personal degress of understanding.
This is very specific when it comes to dealing with other people, for instance how I view judgment and justice in this life.
Ultimately - this bigger eternal picture - judgment and how any one of us stacks up in life, isn't up to me. That's not my domain of activity. By the basic standards of what Jesus synthesized in his teaching I can determine a "Christian" view of right and wrong and what to expect or require of others but it doesn't fall to me to come to a judgment over their entire lives and where they stand in the big picture of an eternal life cycle. I'm concerned with this one, but there's more at stake from my view, than that and I don't make judgment on that.
So, it puts me very much at peace, and makes it much easier for me to deal with the vast inequities and "injustices" of this persent life.
I do believe that God and Jesus Christ are presently involved in life, in a direct meaningful way but individually, in the realm of my/our lives, in each one of "us". Collectively we presently run the world and do what we do with that. This life is how it is, based largely on how we make it with what we've got and what we do. The basic materials are here and function the way they do. We can make good out of it, or we can tank.
So I do view faith as a personal matter and very important for each of us as the more we try to live as Jesus Christ taught, witih each other and in our own faith toward God, the better we can make our world today.
"Because You Wanna Be" is the best answer that I've heard so far.
A God-believer is going to view certain things as being "of God", an atheist is going to see the same things and come to very different conclusions, a Hindu a third set of conclusions, an believer in UFO visitations still another.
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T-Bone
In my opinion God has built so much into His creation…and maybe we take for granted…and perhaps don't acknowledge it as something from Him. Thinking of the great technical and medical advances of man – I marvel at what the mind of man can achieve. I'm so thankful to God I can still get up in the morning and use my mind and body to work at a job – Ecclesiastes 5:19 talks about God empowering man to reap the rewards of his labor – that it is a gift of God.
Deuteronomy 8:18 is another verse that suggests God has put great potential in man, "But you shall remember the Lord your God, for it is He who is giving you power to make wealth, that He may confirm His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day."
I get this idea from passages that refer to the animal kingdom as well.
Psalm 104:21
The young lions roar after their prey, and seek their food from God.
Matthew 6:26
Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them…
I imagine lions know how to hunt and are quite capable of catching their prey. I watch the birds come to the feeders in my backyard and eat the seed that I have placed there – sparrows, dove, and cardinals have discovered this routine – they have to remember where it is and expend energy to fly to them. Occasionally a Cooper's Hawk comes by – she likes to hunt other birds – there's a picture of her in My Gallery. To the naked eye these creatures appear to be endowed with fitting capabilities and resourcefulness. My Christian faith sees wondrous creations with complex - innate qualities from the imagination of my Heavenly Father.
So, to get back to your questions – and where am I going with this – ooops – I don't know…It's funny – I've been thinking about these verses and this idea all day – thought about starting a new thread in doctrinal – but couldn't nail it down – oh that's scary – maybe I was thinking about this for this thread – LOL
. I think in my old TWI days I had perhaps a lazy man's way of doing things – didn't think too much – just expected God to give me revelation on something if I needed it.
Well…after leaving TWI – I realized I'm supposed to WORK for a living…Okay – you talked about practical – well I'll go back to Matthew 6:25-34 – Jesus was addressing something very practical – how we tend to center our lives around food and clothing. Not there's anything wrong with food or clothing but it can get us in trouble by our incessant worrying. Jesus kind of pointed out how worry denies God's love, power and wisdom in this section. And I don't see in this passage anything about the "law of believing" or working on my believing or getting my runways uncluttered. I think all that stuff is really worry in disguise - it sounds really spiritual but it's still trying to take the place of the work our Heavenly Father does. Jesus' practical advice in Matthew 6:33,34 is seek FIRST God's kingdom and righteousness, and quit worrying about tomorrow.
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1searcher
T-Bone,
I'm not sure what you were trying to convey in your message.
I'm not saying I don't believe in God. I just have lots of questions and really no satisfactory answers.
It seems as though Christianity is sold as some sort of panacea, a cure all for anything and everything that ails you. If you have financial problems, become a christian; you have marital problems, become a christian; you have some terrible disease, become a christian; you have no direction in life, become a christian. It seems like christianity is sold as the answer to whatever ails you, and I think it's a lie.
Should I become a christian so that my life has meaning and purpose? Can't my life have meaning and purpose without being a christian? Should I become a christian so that I have fire insurance for when I die?
I keep hearing how God fills the void in our lives caused by the fall of man and how Jesus enters into our suffering and all of these other things but I just don't understand how They do that on a practical basis. How do God and Jesus do all the things I hear christians say They do? It all seems like a cosmic mind game to me. God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit seem like They're out there somewhere but it all seems like a mental and emotional thing so that we don't feel alone or so that we feel like our lives have meaning and is a way to explain the unknown.
I don't believe I am alone in thinking this way. I just think most people are afraid to say what they really feel because they believe God may do something to them because they are angry at Him or question Him.
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TheInvisibleDan
I think you may be right.
I think Christianity sucks as a K-Tel Swiss Pocket Fisherman.
Particularly if the pursuit remains one of "what God can do for us".
I prefer to think the sayings of Christ as practical precepts that are still able to inspire us toward exercising real concern for one another, how we might better treat one another, and even think of one another.
Of fellow human beings. In the here and now.
If that was the only thing to come out of Christianity, that would be sufficient for me.
How I relate to each person I come into contact with throughout the day.
Did I treat that person well, good, fair, and with respect? Did I devote my energy toward helping
them find what they needed? Did I do all I could to remedy a situation?
Did my presence prove beneficial today in that particular spot on this weird planet?
I work in a customer service job, can you tell?
:)
Danny
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DrtyDzn
I think its a matter of perspective. Some people see God's hand in everything that happens, "there are no coincidences in life". God blesses them with good and tries their faith with the bad. Others see the same things happen to everyone and call it part of life. The rain falls on the good and evil. What happens is just luck or fate.
If there ever comes the day when indisputable miracles are again witnessed, changing water to wine, calming the seas, walking on water, it would settle the debate as to whether God is more than a feel good mental exercise.
Jerry
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dancing
How about why should I believe that which is seen in my mind?
And if it's seen in the mind it can be seen in the physical.
Why?
To know what happens when we die.
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T-Bone
1Searcher – I'm not sure what I was trying to convey in my post either – LOL
. I think I was trying to address your question of how God helps us on a practical daily basis – sorry I guess I didn't do much for that. I'm with you – I've got lots of questions and few if any solid answers. Now I think I've got more of a bead on your concerns from your second post. I think a lot of what's been discussed in Bramble's thread on Faith may be relevant here – about a life of faith being a spiritual journey, God's ways being unfathomable, taking an active role in developing our own viewpoint, rafting…anyway…back to what you said…
When you said, "It seems as though Christianity is sold as some sort of panacea, a cure all for anything and everything that ails you" I couldn't agree with you more! I think it cheapens the "real message" of the gospel [which I think only the Holy Spirit knows in terms of how He oversees the Word and however He does it – enables the truth to cut through the bs and go straight to the heart – John 16:7-15 "He will guide you into all truth"; Matthew 16:15-17 "flesh and blood has not revealed this to you"] when anyone hands out their little sales brochure of what Christianity can do for you. I'm as guilty of that as anyone else – but instead of me promoting the wonders of PFAL-power-you-can-have-whatever-you-want like I used to do in the TWI-time of life – I now sometimes lapse into trying to sell my viewpoint. But that really sabotages what I think is part of my purpose as a Christian – which is to present the gospel and encourage the listener to THINK – not to absorb my viewpoint but to figure out their own.
You're not alone in what you feel. I think we all have so many mysteries and cosmic sore spots in our heads – but people are pretty good at putting up a nice "I've-got-it-all-together front." I like what Invisible Dan said about being concerned for how he treats his fellowman – customer service – yes, that's the ticket!
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pond
Why am I a christian?
It is the fact I realize I do NOT have it all together front.
humanity realizes we do not have a clue on how to do this thing called life.
I do not care who you are or what you may think the day comes when Life hits like a thunder and we realize it is NOT a predictable event in which we pay the bills go to work and have perfect health and then die.
life is intense and unbelievable often times. so we search we search for an answer a answer to why how when some comfort in the confusion and heart break.
When a person comes to the realization it truly isnt about a prediction or an event or a planned out situation and life is so real we can say it is UNBELIEVABLE.
we seek a higher power somone to help us. a reason a plan , some help please.
and Jesus christ reveals his own self to us.
I do not think all humans need or will become a disciple of Christ the risen Saviour, it isnt for everyone never was never will be.
some are content with life as they want and see to it , it is what it is.
christians seek and search for a higher being a different answer , it is a spiritual thing that has personal ties within the very created soul.
a longing for it is inside . it is a fullfillment of something missing . and it is real to them.
Spirit like love is a personal concept, when religoun is mixed in it can be a complicated mess of hurt, but to be a disciple of Jesus christ is a simple matterof finding a lost soul and going home , like an itch that must be scratched.
for me it isnt so much about "feeling" more of a knowing, over and over agian in my life a knowing that is proven to be a part of who I am .
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templelady
If I distill it down to it's most essential reason in my life
It is the realization that there is Always someone there for me
Not that I will always get what I want
Not that Life will be all sunshine and roses
Not that there will be tangible evidence of His doings every second of everyday (not that there aren't plenty of these)
But the sense of a presence, if you will, that is always there, no matter who in this earthly plane is there, no matter what the situations
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pond
for those who think it may be just my imagination.. the "God" factor.
could be, but after seeing plenty of "true love marriages" and love gone bad in real life for many, it cant be any different or worse than that can it?
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George Aar
Why should you be a Christian?
Well, I'd say "'cause you wanna be". I can't think of much else to persuade you.
I know that when I finally gave up on the whole religious aspect of my life, nothing really changed. Life still went on pretty much as always. I had problems and successes, ill health and good, happy times, sad times, abundance and lack. In other words, normal life. I did have a little more time on my hands, though, what with no meetings to go to and no holy writs to study and contemplate, let alone all the time I wasted trying to con something out of some holy-thunderer somewhere (praying).
Wouldn't you think that if there was really THE MOST POWERFUL BEING IN THE UNIVERSE actively concerned with every aspect of my life that I'd have noticed SOMETHING different? But, no. He prefers to keep a pretty low profile, I guess.
And then when I was in Mexico I noticed all the peasants done there, active, DEVOTED Christians, who prayed incessantly, went to church as regular as clockwork, yet they had TREMENDOUS, obvious, basic need in their lives. They went without needed medical care, decent clothing, food and shelter. What are they doing wrong? Is it just that they're the wrong brand? I mean, they are mostly RCs. Maybe that's it. God just hates those damned Catlickers? I dunno.
And then when I visited Cambodia I found out what REAL destitution looked like. Good grief, that place made Mexico look affluent. And yet those people were really devout in their religion as well. Again, maybe God just gets ....ed if you haven't figured out how to worship Him PROPERLY? Then how do you explain people like me? We don't do sheeit to help out the poor 'ol Almighty, yet He continues to shower us with blessings. We're just riding on the coattails of all the GOOD Christians around us? Yeah, that must be it.
And those poor bastards in those S$%thole third-world countries? Well, they're just SOL, God obviously doesn't deliver there...
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waysider
Practical,everyday stuff.
Proverbs has countless examples. I've heard Proverbs referred to as "Words to live by". I don't know if that is an accurate translation but the concept is expressed in that phrase.
You don't have to be a Christian or have any special belief system to make the wisdom in Proverbs come to life for you. Here's an example:
"A soft answer turns away wrath.(grievous words stir up strife)."
Anyone who works with the public can attest to the value of that little gem.
Is that an example of God helping you? Well, He was,after all, the author.
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George Aar
Is He? Isn't that really what we're discussing? How do you know it just wasn't the ramblings of some old sage? Are people really so stupid that they couldn't cook up a book of mildly intelligent aphorisms?
And if they did, and then somehow or other it gets branded as wisdom from The Almighty, how would we know different?
Sorry, just the sort of things that run through my head whenever I read a "pat answer" type of response.
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sirguessalot
hi, 1searcher
in my opinion
these are all very interesting, useful and important questions
and they could all use a makeover to make them even more
because they really seem to be jumping into reason at midstream
which we then typically follow out to sea without ever getting to the source of wisdom
imo, its asking even better questions of our first questions that takes us to any sort of wellspring
Why should one be a christian?
i dont think anyone could answer this question very well.
I would have to first ask things like...what do you mean by "christian?"
cuz good old words like 'christian' seem to have lost even more of their use these days
how does God help you on a practical, everyday basis?
as above...but i would add
by practicing better ways of letting God help me on a practical everyday basis
Is it just a mental or emotional thing?
i have found that thoughts and emotions are really just made of the same substance
and that our mind feels
and our heart is highly intelligent
Is it a coping mechanism that helps you deal with life in this world with all of its questions and happiness and tragedies?
yes, but i would say that every single aspect of life itself is a coping mechanism
....even God, whose must ultimately cope with being the only God
Does being a Christian help you feel that you're not alone?
the difficult c-word, again. further complicated by the word 'alone.'
do you mean,
without friends or family in society?
alone as in unmarried? or otherwise without a close partner
alone as in deeply misunderstood?
alone with your joys and triumphs?
alone in the universe as a dying and suffering mortal?
:blink:
I mean, God doesn't get up in the morning for you, doesn't go to work for you, doesn't give you money, doesn't deal with the mundane details of everyday life and living, doesn't do a myriad of things for you, so how does He help you on a practical, everyday basis?
well, that is a bit of a loaded question, complicated by the nebulous G-word
if one believes that God is up in the morning whether i am or not
and God is with me in my work...even when i am working on being lazy
and that God gives all money to anyone who has money...even thieves and thugs
and that God is dealing and moving and being in every mundane myriad detail of life, anyway...
....the final question only seems to work if i agree to your definition of the G-word
:blink:
but...if i was to stick to how i define God from my own experience with scripture, for example...i could answer
...How God Helps Me On a Practical, Everyday Basis...
God helps me on a practical everyday basis
simply by being everwhere present and invisible
without God,
i would not be experiencing
i would not be remembering
i would not be breathing
i would not be feeling
i would not be dreaming
i would not be seeing
tho oddly, i am also that experience
and i am also that memory
and i am also that breath
and i am also that feeler
and i am also that dream
and i am also that seer
and without God
i would not such a fine mirror to see me
and so even the simple feeling of being
is enough of a mirror for me
our eyes feel waves
our ears feel waves
our heart feels waves
our very bones feel in waves
life moves in waves of waves of waves in God
and we are already always soaking wet with the eye and mind of God
and so God teaches me to swim
and teaches me to sink
teaches me to see
teaches me to dream
teaches me to feel
teaches me to breathe
teaches me to remember
teaches me to experience
perhaps simply because they wont stop happening
and they wont stop changing
God is with us as we are being born
God is with us as we are dying
whether or not these things occur on a practical, everyday basis
depends on whether one is practicing them daily, or not
and to what depths and degrees
although...who can choose such things, anyway?
so God helps me choose
by being both hot and cold
by being both near and far
by being both wild and tame
by being both within and without
by being both generic and exotic
by being both invisible and obvious
be being both the one and the many
by being both changing and unchangable
be being both understood and misunderstood
by being both endless and without beginning or end
God has no opposite
whether i like it or not
which keeps me on my toes
practicing (or not) til the end of time
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sirguessalot
geo...for what its worth
i agree that we are all pretty much dolts
in ways that are beyond our own understanding (duh)
but whether or not it should be any different
really is a matter of faith
and expectations
it seems
...not that i dont cherish impracticality
God is also quite a lucky klutz, imo
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pond
I like this post!! had to quote it!
See i believe sometimes people get confused between Santa Clause and God that they must be in the same line of work and have the same relationship with people.
I think this is how folks become bitter towards the idea of a God.. why does that innocent child have to suffer with cancer and this one doesnt?
SEe I do not think Jesus is a "magic man" capable of pointing a wand and fixing all the ills of humanity.
I see it as our legacy and the bible details a book of life that is very detailed in the relationships man can have with God with one another and with evil .
so we can learn how it is.. and become aware of this aspect of life. or not it isnt as though you will not have a life without God ( that is the part I like about your post) and a very good life with happiness and all what it is.
it is a theory that will only be proven when it is said and done and the Saviour will reign in a NEW earth and be KIng of all then finaly Done when He can hand it over to God.
the way i look at it if im wrong not much wil change in my life (like yours) but If im right I can be so eager to anticipate the promise of the story as it unfolds!
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T-Bone
I have to agree with yah on the "cause you wanna be" - for what ever belief system a person chooses.
When you say nothing has changed - and give your list of everything except having more time - I agree with you there too - as far as when I left TWI. However, what has changed is obviously your viewpoint. And if I do say so myself - I also find it a little frustrating that God does keep such a low profile
.
As far as God continuing to shower His blessings on everybody - Jesus did talk about God's love being universal - causing His sun to rise on the bad and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous [Matthew 5:45]...I know...you don't believe the Bible is true - but I was just answering your question how do I explain people like you :) .
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year2027
God first
Beloved 1searcher
God loves you my dear friend
you asked
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How does God help you on a practical, everyday basis?
---------------------------------------------------------------
It depends on how good I listen to God talking to me and God guiding my every movement of my walk
next
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Subtitled: Why should I be a christian?
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I have to ask you why not first my christian friend
next
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Is it a coping mechanism that helps you deal with life in this world with all of its questions and happiness and tragedies?
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its more than words can write
next
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Does being a Christian help you feel that you're not alone?
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yes but there more to it then that
next
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I mean, God doesn't get up in the morning for you, doesn't go to work for you, doesn't give you money, doesn't deal with the mundane details of everyday life and living, doesn't do a myriad of things for you, so how does He help you on a practical, everyday basis?
----------------------------------------------------------
God even sleeps with me as a Father watching over me
next
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I'm interested in hearing your opinions.
--------------------------------------------------
I do not have opinions but I have spiritual truths and spiritual feelings
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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socks
Nice question, a short answer would be that life has broadened for me.
Over time my "faith" contributes a sense of the world I see and live in that's informed by teh part of it I can't, that's usually referred to as "spiritual". The one is completely involved with the other, the physical stuff and the spiritual stuff.
The most concrete way to describe this is that it's time-based. Physical stuff has a shelf life, a life cyle and life span. The spirtual side of life does too, in that it's "eternal" and is the part of life that will go on "forever".
Christianity presents a life cycle and span that's longer than this phsical lifetime, that will go on after the body dies. Which isn't to say I'm in it for the promise of a long future, but rather that I believe that's going to be the case, that our lives and who we are now will extend into an "eternal" life cycle and span that's longer than this present life.
Christianity - the teachings and the life of Jesus puts a "face" on God and how life should be lived correctly. Each day I can attempt to live in a way that reflects that. The more I consider living that way and try to understand life as Jesus taught and lived it the more I feel "right", in tune and in harmony with myself and others, regardless of whether they "believe" how I do - it doesn't matter overall in the bigger picture whether others do or not, as I live as if we're all working under the same condions of life, to varying and very personal degress of understanding.
This is very specific when it comes to dealing with other people, for instance how I view judgment and justice in this life.
Ultimately - this bigger eternal picture - judgment and how any one of us stacks up in life, isn't up to me. That's not my domain of activity. By the basic standards of what Jesus synthesized in his teaching I can determine a "Christian" view of right and wrong and what to expect or require of others but it doesn't fall to me to come to a judgment over their entire lives and where they stand in the big picture of an eternal life cycle. I'm concerned with this one, but there's more at stake from my view, than that and I don't make judgment on that.
So, it puts me very much at peace, and makes it much easier for me to deal with the vast inequities and "injustices" of this persent life.
I do believe that God and Jesus Christ are presently involved in life, in a direct meaningful way but individually, in the realm of my/our lives, in each one of "us". Collectively we presently run the world and do what we do with that. This life is how it is, based largely on how we make it with what we've got and what we do. The basic materials are here and function the way they do. We can make good out of it, or we can tank.
So I do view faith as a personal matter and very important for each of us as the more we try to live as Jesus Christ taught, witih each other and in our own faith toward God, the better we can make our world today.
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Kit Sober
How does God help me on a practical, everyday basis?
He gives me breath life to breathe and air to breathe.
He gives me feet to walk and places to go.
He listens to me. He lets me listen to him.
He is my everything.
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Oakspear
"Because You Wanna Be" is the best answer that I've heard so far.
A God-believer is going to view certain things as being "of God", an atheist is going to see the same things and come to very different conclusions, a Hindu a third set of conclusions, an believer in UFO visitations still another.
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