There was a whole "Harve's been demoted" thread a while back when new assignments came out. Maybe Belle or someone can link the thread. He's doing some local area now. Hopefully he's seen the handwriting on the wall and it going to get a "real job".
Yeah, I'd like to know what old Harvey is up to these days. I went to highschool with him, and helped to undershepherd him in The Word. He was a fine boy back then, and a helluva guitar player too. And to think that he actually became the VP of TWI is juat crazy! But I wish him well. He had a very tender heart back when we were "little people..............."
And speaking of "Waldo", I have a short but funny to me story to relate. When my family and I moved to the small fishing town of Haines, Alaska, on the very first day there when we stopped to ask some directions, we found Waldo!! Yup! It's true! We stopped at this gas station and there was a grizzled man of about sixty years old with a smile that can light up the night! He had a buzz cut for hair, and his arms were the thick and gnarly arms and hands of a working man, but his weathered smile is still one that makes all who meet him comfortable and warm. He reminds me of "John Locke" from the series "Lost", now that I think of it, although even tougher looking. After we got the gas going into our car, he pulls some hard candy out of his pocket and says; "Hey you kids! Want some candy?" And of course my younguns said; "Yes!" And then he proceeds by saying, "Well, my name is Bill Waldo, but everybody around here just calls me "Waldo". And then, one of my kids (can't remember which one) yells from the car; "Hey! It's Waldo! We found Waldo!!! Hi Waldo!!! Where is your red and white shirt!?" And me, the wife, and the rest of the kids ('cept for our 3 week old boy Luke) busted up laughing as did Waldo, for, he knew of the "Where's Waldo?" books. And after we excahnged pleasantries, he welcomed us to Haines, and my kids always made sure to visit Waldo whenever they could, to get more candy...
And so, as far as "Waldo" is conncerned, we found him. He is a sweet older gentleman in Haines, Alaska and likes to give candy to the kids. Life surely is Grand, no?
I truly hope Harve will see the light. he blessed me big time on a couple of occassions when I was suffering from a physical infirmity, and he always seemed like a really genuine believer when I interacted with him in the early 90s.
the BOT never seemed like a good fit for him in my mind. only if he sold his soul.
I wondered the same thing too, Belle & Jardinero Darlins.
Sounds like typical twi speak to me, say something nonsensical, but state it matter-of-factly and most people just keep on reading, and it's like, ok, that's the reason why. Apparently it worked for over 40 and maybe over 60 years, depending on who's doing the math.
It's good for us that their reasoning doesn't make sense. I prefer that to feeling like I get the unget-table (whatever the current speweth is uttereth outteth their moutheths).
I saw it and interpreted the fact that he moved so his daughter to finish high school as either being a shallow coverup for some deeper issue. funny how my reaction is different now than it was before the LCM incident, but now that I'm out I don't feel guilty for suspecting it's all spin. there sure isn't any substance. it's like when someone got fired at one of my jobs once, he'd abused everyone in the department then screamed at the manager, and all that was said was "he no longer works here".
Screw Harvey. He tried SO hard to get a couple of friends of mine NOT to get married because he was not Corps. Well I married 'em in my living room and they are still married today with two great kids one on he way to college. Guess his "revelation" was wrong. His foolish and arogant talk of being a prophet was nothing more than an abhoration of anything related to God or the Bible. I have zero use for a$$ kissers and he was chief among them.
No Rumrunner. I have no doubt that he became a completely different person than when we were eighteen. He had to be an arse kisser to get that far up the food chain. And good for you for taking a stand like that and blessing your friends marriage. Did you get in trouble for it? It seemed to me that Harvey's (I still call him Harvee, because he had changed from Harvey to "Harve" after he began his ascent to the position of "Number Two") demeanor changed from genuinely kind and loving to a fake sort of kindness that was just show. And he did that "love bomb" thing with his eyes that was just not genuine. He didn't like it that I called him by his old handle, but I got a "pass" because we'd been neighborhood aquaintences and later friends since sixth grade.
No Rumrunner, there is no way Harve was still a "good guy" while defending LCM and the rest of their ilk while they did the terrible things that they did to people. No flames from here...
I'm not gonna flame either. all I was saying is he showed genuine kindness to me on a couple of occassions, so it seems there was heart there at one time. you don't get to the top unless you sell out, and he sold out.
I just reconciled with a woman who was my best friend a few years back. leadership had almost destroyed our friendship along with my self esteem. our relationship was certainly damaged in the aftermath. she left twi a few years ago. once I made the decision to leave, I couldn't get it out of my mind that I wanted to talk to her so I left her a message and she called me back. we talked for 3 hours and healed the breach. the thing that touched me the most is that she had remorse over the incident that got leadership involved in the first place.
I haven't seen that remorse very much. it's just the business of the day to run amok over people's hearts and then turn their backs. even if they feel remorse, they can never bring it up while they're on the inside.
well, good ole Harve was also extremely instrumental in 2000 in threatening people in Washington to not discuss the abortions lcm had forced women to have. Harve is dirty dirty dirty.
I hope he leaves and get healed for his sake...but a spade is a spade right now.
he showed genuine kindness to me on a couple of occassions, so it seems there was heart there at one time.
And I don't doubt that Potato. Because I knew him way back when he was just very happy to know that he was born again. A simple and kind hearted brother. Even Craig Martindale used to be that way. My wife knew Craig down in Oklahoma when he was but a branch leader, and Craig was a kind hearted dude. But, as the old saying goes; "Power currupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely". And, that's what happened. I could have climbed the food chain as an ordained one, but the very idea of it was detestable to me. I only wanted to help people. My "forte" was that of being a "one on one" kind of guy, trying to help those who had issues in their lives. And for the life of me, I just can't figure out how Harvey got sucked up into all of that. But, these things happen, as thay have throughout Time In Memorial.....
Me in trouble? Yep I did as a matter of fact; but then again I was almost always in trouble in TWI. Probably isn't one of the old school bastages that didn't take me task for one thing or another. Groucho probably remembers all to well. Laffs
And good for you for taking a stand like that and blessing your friends marriage. Did you get in trouble for it?
I was a WOW in his area when he got in the Word. I used to go to his play and jam on guitars and we'd listen to Roy Buchanan together. One night we went out, all the money he had could only get us a donut (seriously). He was broke, but a great musician. He was one of the sweetest, kindest guys I've ever met.
I think the change came when he went in the corps and PL got her hooks into him, then at HQ and he fell in with RR and started climbing the heights in Way Productions. I remember one time on staff I was riding my motorcycle in New Knoxville and something went wrong with it. He stopped, we took it to his house and he fixed it. He had a wonderful, kind heart. He let power corrupt it.
I agree, he turned into a pr**k. But, he's on the field now in the "real world." Many people come to their senses away from HQ, hopefully he will too. I'd love to see the "real" H again.
Sunesis, he's still in Ohio and still full time sold out to TWI to pay his bills. If he moved off HQ grounds, he's still very close to HQ for his daughter to graduate, so I think he's still far away from "the real world". He's maybe no longer directly under rosie's thumb, but the shadow and thumbnail are still right there overhead just waiting to drop.
I would like to know the real reason for his departure, though. That's a mightly lame excuse and doesn't hold an ounce of water, imo. Now, if he were to move out of state, ween himself off rosie's udder, THEN I'd consider that he just might be closer to experiencing "the real world", but not now. It's the same song and dance, just different costumes, imo. :)
Most of the top usually loose their position because of their inability to perform according to their rules. Take the previous Secretary/Treasurer. John Reynol**. He knew nothing about handling the finances, he was terrible at public speaking and made many a big blunders while doing it even during Sunday teachings. So after so many cough ups, they realized he wasn't good at anything but a "yes" man..
Harve was the same way. Only at least a lot more talent. He would speak, stand up for what the BOT was speaking no matter what it was on. Only his big blunder was he constantly would try and do things on his own after he became VP. He thought because of his position, he was entitled to make some big decisions. Umm.. That's a no-no.. Everything he wanted to do had to agree with Rosalie and Rico and Linder's decisions.. The only BOT seat that counts is Rosalie, the rest are just there for looks. Execpt that Rico and Linder both have more room to say what should go on. Actually Linder and Rosalie are probably the top two. Linder is her "secret" adviser. Rico is in the same seat Harvey was in.
The problem was that anyone in the other 2 seats kept thinking they were someone! And the real top dogs had to keep telling them, you're not the top, we are the behind the scenes guys who run it all, and you must get approval from us! (In, not so many kind words.) Now granted, Harve actually was allowed a lot more latitude and made some big decisions when he was in, without the top dogs approval. Only, that was their problem with him. Always making big doctrinal statements and giving lee-way (sp?!) to certain people without getting the real BOT's "approval".. And it came to bite them in the arse, because Harve said so and so, but the real guys said so and so.. And to appease the person complaining, they fired his but. Or more nicely said, Harve, while don't you go do this! And Harve being the 'yes' man that he is, said ok!
And now.. To make sure it doesn't happen again, because it had 2 times in a row, they demoted the Vice President position to being just a root locale overseer. Rupp, Mittler, and McFadden. 3 nobodys that are basically 'yes' men. Only if they knew Mittler well enough, the real BOT wouldn't have picked him, cause there's someone who will do the same thing Harve did.. Oh well! 3 times a charm they say.
Linder is her secret advisor?!?!?! Holy cr@p is she stupid thern. I have not seen that stupid ignorant piece of donkey cr@p Linder in well over 20 years. He was one of the STUPIDEST people I ever met. BUT he could swagger around a lot when the Twits let him start packing heat. Linder was always a big wuss - everyone laughed him into the ground - so when he started packing he made sure to remind all of those folk how cool he had become. Bet he thinks he shoulda been one of Jesus' body guards so history would turn out differently
So we got "God's will on earth" being represented by a couple of morons, wait did I use that word mornon? I meant to say TWO OF THE STUPIDEST PEOPLE ON EARTH.
Groucho - please reprove me if I am being ever so much a tiny bit forward.... smirks
Rummy, here's a funny story from the "fog years" involving JL.
My friend Dana R, who was no longer on staff, dropped by HQ to visit some friends. (This was back around the time when staff people who were attending Walter C's fellowship in New Bremen were being spied on and their names turned in to HQ, then they were getting their walking papers the next day. And people were getting fired right and left over the infamous loyalty oath.)
So anyway, safety gets wind that the big (hahahaha, hardly), evil (hahahahhahahaha soooo not evil) Dana is roaming loose in the hallowed halls of the OSC, and JL gets the privilege of booting her off grounds. Later that day, Dana is in St. Mary's grocery shopping. She reaches for a melon just as someone else reaches for it. She looks up and, lo and behold, it's JL. She says, "Hi, John!" He turns eight shades of red, takes his hand off the melon and hastily exits.
Poor guy knew that booting Dana was wrong and stupid, but he did as ordered anyway. So sad. But I can still picture him standing in the produce department blushing his a$$ off, and it makes me chuckle.
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jardinero
Yeah, you were snoozin, Linda.
There was a whole "Harve's been demoted" thread a while back when new assignments came out. Maybe Belle or someone can link the thread. He's doing some local area now. Hopefully he's seen the handwriting on the wall and it going to get a "real job".
J.
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excathedra
why did he get demoted ? he seems so good at kissing azz
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Linda,Harvey was demoted to Limb/area leader of Ohio in September 2005 so his daughter could graduate from high school.
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Linda Z
Well I'll be. I guess I really was asleep when this happened.
Good for Harve. A demotion in twi is equal to a promotion in my mind.
Heck, it's better still when someone gets fired from that place. I figure it might give them a chance to clear out the cobwebs.
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dmiller
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J0nny Ling0
Yeah, I'd like to know what old Harvey is up to these days. I went to highschool with him, and helped to undershepherd him in The Word. He was a fine boy back then, and a helluva guitar player too. And to think that he actually became the VP of TWI is juat crazy! But I wish him well. He had a very tender heart back when we were "little people..............."
And speaking of "Waldo", I have a short but funny to me story to relate. When my family and I moved to the small fishing town of Haines, Alaska, on the very first day there when we stopped to ask some directions, we found Waldo!! Yup! It's true! We stopped at this gas station and there was a grizzled man of about sixty years old with a smile that can light up the night! He had a buzz cut for hair, and his arms were the thick and gnarly arms and hands of a working man, but his weathered smile is still one that makes all who meet him comfortable and warm. He reminds me of "John Locke" from the series "Lost", now that I think of it, although even tougher looking. After we got the gas going into our car, he pulls some hard candy out of his pocket and says; "Hey you kids! Want some candy?" And of course my younguns said; "Yes!" And then he proceeds by saying, "Well, my name is Bill Waldo, but everybody around here just calls me "Waldo". And then, one of my kids (can't remember which one) yells from the car; "Hey! It's Waldo! We found Waldo!!! Hi Waldo!!! Where is your red and white shirt!?" And me, the wife, and the rest of the kids ('cept for our 3 week old boy Luke) busted up laughing as did Waldo, for, he knew of the "Where's Waldo?" books. And after we excahnged pleasantries, he welcomed us to Haines, and my kids always made sure to visit Waldo whenever they could, to get more candy...
And so, as far as "Waldo" is conncerned, we found him. He is a sweet older gentleman in Haines, Alaska and likes to give candy to the kids. Life surely is Grand, no?
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potato
I truly hope Harve will see the light. he blessed me big time on a couple of occassions when I was suffering from a physical infirmity, and he always seemed like a really genuine believer when I interacted with him in the early 90s.
the BOT never seemed like a good fit for him in my mind. only if he sold his soul.
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Belle
:unsure: I know I'm not the sharpest tack in the box, but what does his position at HQ have to do with his daughter graduating from high school?
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jardinero
Yeah, I wondered the same thing, Belle.
Anyone?
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RumRunner
Very nice Johnny
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bowtwi
I wondered the same thing too, Belle & Jardinero Darlins.
Sounds like typical twi speak to me, say something nonsensical, but state it matter-of-factly and most people just keep on reading, and it's like, ok, that's the reason why. Apparently it worked for over 40 and maybe over 60 years, depending on who's doing the math.
It's good for us that their reasoning doesn't make sense. I prefer that to feeling like I get the unget-table (whatever the current speweth is uttereth outteth their moutheths).
In this case, not understanding is very good.
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potato
I saw it and interpreted the fact that he moved so his daughter to finish high school as either being a shallow coverup for some deeper issue. funny how my reaction is different now than it was before the LCM incident, but now that I'm out I don't feel guilty for suspecting it's all spin. there sure isn't any substance. it's like when someone got fired at one of my jobs once, he'd abused everyone in the department then screamed at the manager, and all that was said was "he no longer works here".
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RumRunner
Screw Harvey. He tried SO hard to get a couple of friends of mine NOT to get married because he was not Corps. Well I married 'em in my living room and they are still married today with two great kids one on he way to college. Guess his "revelation" was wrong. His foolish and arogant talk of being a prophet was nothing more than an abhoration of anything related to God or the Bible. I have zero use for a$$ kissers and he was chief among them.
Flame away
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J0nny Ling0
No Rumrunner. I have no doubt that he became a completely different person than when we were eighteen. He had to be an arse kisser to get that far up the food chain. And good for you for taking a stand like that and blessing your friends marriage. Did you get in trouble for it? It seemed to me that Harvey's (I still call him Harvee, because he had changed from Harvey to "Harve" after he began his ascent to the position of "Number Two") demeanor changed from genuinely kind and loving to a fake sort of kindness that was just show. And he did that "love bomb" thing with his eyes that was just not genuine. He didn't like it that I called him by his old handle, but I got a "pass" because we'd been neighborhood aquaintences and later friends since sixth grade.
No Rumrunner, there is no way Harve was still a "good guy" while defending LCM and the rest of their ilk while they did the terrible things that they did to people. No flames from here...
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potato
I'm not gonna flame either. all I was saying is he showed genuine kindness to me on a couple of occassions, so it seems there was heart there at one time. you don't get to the top unless you sell out, and he sold out.
I just reconciled with a woman who was my best friend a few years back. leadership had almost destroyed our friendship along with my self esteem. our relationship was certainly damaged in the aftermath. she left twi a few years ago. once I made the decision to leave, I couldn't get it out of my mind that I wanted to talk to her so I left her a message and she called me back. we talked for 3 hours and healed the breach. the thing that touched me the most is that she had remorse over the incident that got leadership involved in the first place.
I haven't seen that remorse very much. it's just the business of the day to run amok over people's hearts and then turn their backs. even if they feel remorse, they can never bring it up while they're on the inside.
that's pretty sad.
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washingtonweather
well, good ole Harve was also extremely instrumental in 2000 in threatening people in Washington to not discuss the abortions lcm had forced women to have. Harve is dirty dirty dirty.
I hope he leaves and get healed for his sake...but a spade is a spade right now.
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potato
whoa, that is sinking pretty damned low. I'm so sick of twi threats to keep people quiet. that's why I love this board.
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J0nny Ling0
And I don't doubt that Potato. Because I knew him way back when he was just very happy to know that he was born again. A simple and kind hearted brother. Even Craig Martindale used to be that way. My wife knew Craig down in Oklahoma when he was but a branch leader, and Craig was a kind hearted dude. But, as the old saying goes; "Power currupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely". And, that's what happened. I could have climbed the food chain as an ordained one, but the very idea of it was detestable to me. I only wanted to help people. My "forte" was that of being a "one on one" kind of guy, trying to help those who had issues in their lives. And for the life of me, I just can't figure out how Harvey got sucked up into all of that. But, these things happen, as thay have throughout Time In Memorial.....
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RumRunner
Me in trouble? Yep I did as a matter of fact; but then again I was almost always in trouble in TWI. Probably isn't one of the old school bastages that didn't take me task for one thing or another. Groucho probably remembers all to well. Laffs
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Sunesis
I was a WOW in his area when he got in the Word. I used to go to his play and jam on guitars and we'd listen to Roy Buchanan together. One night we went out, all the money he had could only get us a donut (seriously). He was broke, but a great musician. He was one of the sweetest, kindest guys I've ever met.
I think the change came when he went in the corps and PL got her hooks into him, then at HQ and he fell in with RR and started climbing the heights in Way Productions. I remember one time on staff I was riding my motorcycle in New Knoxville and something went wrong with it. He stopped, we took it to his house and he fixed it. He had a wonderful, kind heart. He let power corrupt it.
I agree, he turned into a pr**k. But, he's on the field now in the "real world." Many people come to their senses away from HQ, hopefully he will too. I'd love to see the "real" H again.
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Belle
Sunesis, he's still in Ohio and still full time sold out to TWI to pay his bills. If he moved off HQ grounds, he's still very close to HQ for his daughter to graduate, so I think he's still far away from "the real world". He's maybe no longer directly under rosie's thumb, but the shadow and thumbnail are still right there overhead just waiting to drop.
I would like to know the real reason for his departure, though. That's a mightly lame excuse and doesn't hold an ounce of water, imo. Now, if he were to move out of state, ween himself off rosie's udder, THEN I'd consider that he just might be closer to experiencing "the real world", but not now. It's the same song and dance, just different costumes, imo. :)
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TrustAndObey
Most of the top usually loose their position because of their inability to perform according to their rules. Take the previous Secretary/Treasurer. John Reynol**. He knew nothing about handling the finances, he was terrible at public speaking and made many a big blunders while doing it even during Sunday teachings. So after so many cough ups, they realized he wasn't good at anything but a "yes" man..
Harve was the same way. Only at least a lot more talent. He would speak, stand up for what the BOT was speaking no matter what it was on. Only his big blunder was he constantly would try and do things on his own after he became VP. He thought because of his position, he was entitled to make some big decisions. Umm.. That's a no-no.. Everything he wanted to do had to agree with Rosalie and Rico and Linder's decisions.. The only BOT seat that counts is Rosalie, the rest are just there for looks. Execpt that Rico and Linder both have more room to say what should go on. Actually Linder and Rosalie are probably the top two. Linder is her "secret" adviser. Rico is in the same seat Harvey was in.
The problem was that anyone in the other 2 seats kept thinking they were someone! And the real top dogs had to keep telling them, you're not the top, we are the behind the scenes guys who run it all, and you must get approval from us! (In, not so many kind words.) Now granted, Harve actually was allowed a lot more latitude and made some big decisions when he was in, without the top dogs approval. Only, that was their problem with him. Always making big doctrinal statements and giving lee-way (sp?!) to certain people without getting the real BOT's "approval".. And it came to bite them in the arse, because Harve said so and so, but the real guys said so and so.. And to appease the person complaining, they fired his but. Or more nicely said, Harve, while don't you go do this! And Harve being the 'yes' man that he is, said ok!
And now.. To make sure it doesn't happen again, because it had 2 times in a row, they demoted the Vice President position to being just a root locale overseer. Rupp, Mittler, and McFadden. 3 nobodys that are basically 'yes' men. Only if they knew Mittler well enough, the real BOT wouldn't have picked him, cause there's someone who will do the same thing Harve did.. Oh well! 3 times a charm they say.
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RumRunner
Linder is her secret advisor?!?!?! Holy cr@p is she stupid thern. I have not seen that stupid ignorant piece of donkey cr@p Linder in well over 20 years. He was one of the STUPIDEST people I ever met. BUT he could swagger around a lot when the Twits let him start packing heat. Linder was always a big wuss - everyone laughed him into the ground - so when he started packing he made sure to remind all of those folk how cool he had become. Bet he thinks he shoulda been one of Jesus' body guards so history would turn out differently
So we got "God's will on earth" being represented by a couple of morons, wait did I use that word mornon? I meant to say TWO OF THE STUPIDEST PEOPLE ON EARTH.
Groucho - please reprove me if I am being ever so much a tiny bit forward.... smirks
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Linda Z
Rummy, here's a funny story from the "fog years" involving JL.
My friend Dana R, who was no longer on staff, dropped by HQ to visit some friends. (This was back around the time when staff people who were attending Walter C's fellowship in New Bremen were being spied on and their names turned in to HQ, then they were getting their walking papers the next day. And people were getting fired right and left over the infamous loyalty oath.)
So anyway, safety gets wind that the big (hahahaha, hardly), evil (hahahahhahahaha soooo not evil) Dana is roaming loose in the hallowed halls of the OSC, and JL gets the privilege of booting her off grounds. Later that day, Dana is in St. Mary's grocery shopping. She reaches for a melon just as someone else reaches for it. She looks up and, lo and behold, it's JL. She says, "Hi, John!" He turns eight shades of red, takes his hand off the melon and hastily exits.
Poor guy knew that booting Dana was wrong and stupid, but he did as ordered anyway. So sad. But I can still picture him standing in the produce department blushing his a$$ off, and it makes me chuckle.
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