Yes, I welcomed Roy, though I rarely post. I welcomed Roy, because I know Roy from the cafe and consider him a friend. Yes, I do read some of the posts that go up over there, though certainly not all. It depends on who wrote it and what the topic is. It also depends on how busy I am.
The reason I rarely post over there is because I was put in the moderators queue several years ago, over an incident that is not altogether different than this one (though the specifics most certainly are different). I simply don't have the time or inclination to post where I am not wanted and/or am moderated. I make an exception to that on a very rare occassion.
Yes, Roy's experience there has touched a nerve. As I tried explaining to someone on the list, the Oddlist was one of the first ex-way places I ever found. I was new to the world wide web and I was very very newly out of TWI. I was labeled a Troll by one of the popular posters over there, despite the rules that exist about insulting each other. That label stuck so well it even carried over here to the cafe when I found this place. No one would talk to me at either place. Imagine how I must have felt. No friends in the real world because I had just left TWI. No ex-wafers to help me either, because I was marked and avoided by them as well.
Desperation won out and I changed names and became "Abigail". However, it is not an experience I ever forgot, nor ever will. I very much understand being cautious on the internet. Experience has taught me that as well. But I think withholding judgment and allowing time to reveal a person for who they are is far better than dumping all over them simply because they seem a bit "different".
FreeatLast - you said you tried to write to Jim about this situation and were "banned" = but then it was explained later in this thread that your email was being bounced.
Funny thing, I too tried to post and mysteriously my email was "bounced" as well. But what makes it even more funny is that I got a private response from someone on the list that quoted my "bounced" e-mail.
Now, I don't know the technical ins and outs of how an e-group works, but obviously "bounced" emails seem to get received by someone. However, I'm betting mine never sees the light of day over there.
Another funny thing . . . Jim had to ask someone to contact you, Free, to let you know your emails were being bounced. However, he had no trouble whatsoever sending me a private email telling me mine were being bounced.
And when you say it's not about popularity, referring to your not being popular at the Yahoo board because you posted here, well... it usually IS about popularity. Like, when someone says something isn't about money - IT IS really about money. KnowwhatImean?
Honestly, if you're that censored over there - word count limits, etc., then why bother? The air is much fresher here, thank you.
yes I do not want a board war and at times I think these tread is getting nowhere and should be locked but I trust Paw to lock it when and if it needs locking
I wish all would read your words in tread number 59
but maybe this tread is about venting as it might of been mine in the beginning because I should of just walk away
Gentle Servant, yes I have a few friends on the list, which is why I still keep my membership there. But I have a huge issue not so much with the rules themselves there, but how they are and aren't enforced. For example, you will notice that several posts insulting Roy and others from the cafe have been allowed to go through. However, you will also notice that my post, pointing out this and other inconsitancies will never see the light of day.
I will say, I am impressed that Jim tried to take up his issue with Roy via e-mail instead of publicly. My experience in the past was that moderators over there were free to lambaste the regular crowd as it suited them, but if one of the regulars who was lambasted attempted to respond they were put on moderation.
And yeah, DMiller, I probably do have an ax to grind.
Actually, I am rarely troubled by either of those things. What does trouble me is seeing people needlessly hurt. What also troubles me is seeing a place that claims to be there to help those who are exiting TWI hurt the very people who could benefit from it the most. Seeing people turned away because they are different, or still struggling. Seeing people turned away because they do not write well.
What does trouble me is seeing people needlessly hurt. What also troubles me is seeing a place that claims to be there to help those who are exiting TWI hurt the very people who could benefit from it the most. Seeing people turned away because they are different, or still struggling. Seeing people turned away because they do not write well.
Abigail,
I would have to agree with you that it is not good to hurt people. It is not good to post private
emails either. If someone sent me a private email saying they didn't like me I would be hurt,
but I wouldn't throw it out there to gain sympathy from others.
I have never seen someone who was exiting TWI get maligned, even in past posts there.
I think most people that go there do know how to write, but it is definitely not a requirement.
We like to laugh and have a good time as do the folks here.
Roy is welcome to post over there, but some do not enjoy his little idiosyncrasies like preaching,
teaching, prophesying, and blowing holy kisses. It is also against the rules to come across as
an elitist. You know like I am all spiritual and you are not. That kind of thing.
If he must continue with all that and he knows people don't like it over there, then why go there?
As for you being called a Troll, that was way cruel and uncalled for.
I would have protested had I been there at that time.
You are a good person and I hope you can forgive those who did that to you and
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I would have to agree with you that it is not good to hurt people. It is not good to post private
emails either
I agree and have said as much. I also understand how someone who is hurt and angry might react out of that hurt and anger and do so. Roy has likewise apologized for doing it. I have yet to see anyone apologize for saying cruel things to him.
"I have never seen someone who was exiting TWI get maligned, even in past posts there."
Understood, but I have.
We like to laugh and have a good time as do the folks here.
Again, understood. I too like to laugh and have a good time.
Roy is welcome to post over there, but some do not enjoy his little idiosyncrasies like preaching,
teaching, prophesying, and blowing holy kisses. It is also against the rules to come across as
an elitist. You know like I am all spiritual and you are not. That kind of thing.
Those who don't like his idiosyncrasies do not have to read what he writes - the delete button works very well on unread e-mails. I do it myself quite frequently. As for "coming across as an elitest", well to some degree or another, that is in the eye of the beholder. However, having taken the time to get to know Roy, he does not strike me in the least bit as elitist - though I understand how he could come across to those who haven't taken the time to get to know him. Sometimes, one has to take a little time to get to know someone, to see below the surface, to understand where they are really coming from. Conversly, if they do not wish to invest time in getting to know someone, for whatever reason, there is nothing wrong with that. But to judge someone without knowing them does strike me as wrong.
"As for you being called a Troll, that was way cruel and uncalled for.
I would have protested had I been there at that time.
You are a good person and I hope you can forgive those who did that to you and
not hold it against the rest of us."
I don't hold it against those who did not participate. In some sense I don't even hold it against those who did. I understand how certain words and phrases can trigger a very negative emotional reaction. However, I have seen it happen to several people in various forms and that I do find disturbing. To see the very people who might stand to benefit the most from an honest and open discussions about their experience and beliefs be turned away is very upsetting to me, because I know how painful that can be. The front page of the list says it is for ex-wayfers to discuss, among other things, their experience in TWI. A large part of the TWI experience included doctrine. From that perspective, it seems to me doctrine would then be a valid discussion as long as it was kept polite and respetful.
The impression I get from what goes on there, is that most people want it to be a place where those who are over the worst of their TWI experience can come, kick back, kid around and have a good time. There is certainly nothing wrong with that at all. But, perhaps that is what the front page should say then, that way newcomers aren't so surprised when doctrinal discussions are not tolerated.
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Gentle Servant
Roy,
You did fail to mention that there were some people that welcomed you back over at
the other list with open arms. You have made no mention of that. So it would seem
that you were just trying to stir up some trouble over there perhaps because you had
hurt feelings from back in 2004 when you stopped posting over there.
Also Jim never said that you were posting 8 years ago. Correctly it was stated that in
the 8 years of his moderating the list he has only had to ban 2 people from posting over
there of which you were one. He also allowed your post to go through which told pretty
much the whole story of your life. Even though this post was way over the allowed number
of words allowed in a post, he kindly let it go through in order that we at the other list
might have some insight into why "Roy is the way he is," which I thought was pretty decent
of him to do. He was trying to get us all on board with accepting and welcoming you even
with your sometimes rather eccentric point of view and proclivity towards preaching to others.
I can assure you that I have experienced a feeling of not being welcome over here. It seems
that both lists can sometimes get a bit clickish (sp.) and not very tolerant of other opinions.
Since I have been posting over there only a few months I have found the people to be
pretty tolerant of people's opinions and ideas. I have friends on both lists and would have to
say that we are all still in the body of Christ. It would seem to me that since you chose to
go with the negative and pay little attention to those who welcomed you and were glad to see
you over there, that perhaps all you were doing over there is trying to stir up trouble.
As far as you posting a private email to the folks over here as an attempt to get people here
to discredit the other list and slander Jim and his contribution to maintaining a healing forum
for many ex-twis, I think you know where that would stand biblically. About the same place
as gossip and back biting.
You know you never find people coming over here from the other list to impose their opinions
on this site. Sometimes we come over to visit but not with the intent of causing division.
Most often the people who do come here from the other list do so in order to check on friends,
ask for prayer, or pray for people on this list. Also to converse about things we have in common
like belonging to a corrupt organization together once.
As Jim mentioned, he still hasn't prevented you from posting over there. If I was the moderator
I really can't say I would have been that patient because it really seems you just came over
there to stir up trouble and break the rules.
There are alot of good people on both lists and it seems quite counter productive to bad mouth
all the people over there and Jim. Rather we should continue to pray for our brothers and sisters
and friends on both lists. You yourself responded to a few of us and thanked us for welcoming
you. I really think you were asked simply not to preach which is within the rules of that group.
You did not chose to respond very much to the people who welcomed you. Why is that?
Once again it seems your mission was to cause tension between these two groups and to
get people over here to rail on Jim as they quickly proceeded to do.
We have people that stop in and say hi quite often from gs. Also people that like to lurk over
there just to get a few laughs and see what their bros and sisters are up to over there.
I can assure you that there are people at GS who do hold their brother Jim in high regard for
his labor of love with the list.
I will also admit there are some people over there who find you boring and obnoxious. I think
you know who I am referring to. They have their opinions and it seems quite a few people love
you over here so you are in good company. It seems there are a few people at the other list
that also love you and welcomed you back but sadly you didn't respond to them.
Which again points to the fact that your subliminal goal was to discredit Jim and the other list.
Hoping we can all get along and love one another and welcome one another to either list.
I am sure our common adversary would prefer us to be divided and factious and not praying
for one another.
As far as Abigail following you over to the other list and welcoming you there. What was that
all about? You talk about hypocrisy Ab? You rarely post over there but then you come out and
welcome Roy to our list over there. Weird. You do like to read the posts over there though.
Now you want to malign Jim and others over there. Sounds a little hypocritical to me.
Just stirring up a little strife are we?
IMHO,
GB,
GS.
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Abigail
Yes, I welcomed Roy, though I rarely post. I welcomed Roy, because I know Roy from the cafe and consider him a friend. Yes, I do read some of the posts that go up over there, though certainly not all. It depends on who wrote it and what the topic is. It also depends on how busy I am.
The reason I rarely post over there is because I was put in the moderators queue several years ago, over an incident that is not altogether different than this one (though the specifics most certainly are different). I simply don't have the time or inclination to post where I am not wanted and/or am moderated. I make an exception to that on a very rare occassion.
Yes, Roy's experience there has touched a nerve. As I tried explaining to someone on the list, the Oddlist was one of the first ex-way places I ever found. I was new to the world wide web and I was very very newly out of TWI. I was labeled a Troll by one of the popular posters over there, despite the rules that exist about insulting each other. That label stuck so well it even carried over here to the cafe when I found this place. No one would talk to me at either place. Imagine how I must have felt. No friends in the real world because I had just left TWI. No ex-wafers to help me either, because I was marked and avoided by them as well.
Desperation won out and I changed names and became "Abigail". However, it is not an experience I ever forgot, nor ever will. I very much understand being cautious on the internet. Experience has taught me that as well. But I think withholding judgment and allowing time to reveal a person for who they are is far better than dumping all over them simply because they seem a bit "different".
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Abigail
FreeatLast - you said you tried to write to Jim about this situation and were "banned" = but then it was explained later in this thread that your email was being bounced.
Funny thing, I too tried to post and mysteriously my email was "bounced" as well. But what makes it even more funny is that I got a private response from someone on the list that quoted my "bounced" e-mail.
Now, I don't know the technical ins and outs of how an e-group works, but obviously "bounced" emails seem to get received by someone. However, I'm betting mine never sees the light of day over there.
Another funny thing . . . Jim had to ask someone to contact you, Free, to let you know your emails were being bounced. However, he had no trouble whatsoever sending me a private email telling me mine were being bounced.
The whole thing makes me go "hmmmmm"
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year2027
God first
Beloved Gentle Servant
God loves you my dear friend
If you read each part of this again you will see that I said some did greet me with open arms
Abigail greeted me there with open arms and jen-o greeted me with open arms
but Jim was not a greeting but more like notice but maybe I was wrong
then there Walker who made a joke of it
then there Patty Sanders who wrote to Abigail because she reply to me
I did not impose my opinions but I shared my story there and tried to reply with my side to "Roy is back"
I stoped posting in 2005 not 2004
(I was wrong here my last tread was in Sep 2004) edit my me
if you do not feel welcome here give it some
I was not all ways welcome here with open arms because I said some things which got some people upset
one was asking all here to put "God first" on top of each tread
you see it takes time for people to get to know you as it did some people to get to know me
give them time
you just said you post both places
there are many on both boards and there nothing wrong with that
I only came there to share nothing other than to share
but its time I just tell you that I love you with the love of God and leave it were it is
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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Gentle Servant
Abigail,
I am really sorry to hear about your bad experience on the list.
It seems they can sometimes be a bit caustic sometimes. I am
sure this incident was prior to my involvement since I have only
been posting there a few months. I did notice that you also were
welcomed by someone and encouraged to post more. It does really
suck when someone is made to feel unwanted and I hate that
kind of thing. Again, I am sorry you were treated badly and it
is nice to meet you.
You do see how odd it looks to have you rarely post there and then
to welcome Roy to the list?
Take care sister. Who knows I probably won't be popular for posting
over here today. It is not about popularity though. You have a right
to your opinions and I have a right to mine, but underlying should be
a love that transcends all this bickering. So, I will say I love you
and God Bless to all on both these weird lists and welcome over any time to chat.
I am sure Roy is welcome by some, not all, there too. I however, think Jim was
really open minded and forgiving and compassionate to let Roy's post go through.
He tried to cut him some slack, but it backfired on him and I think that is wrong too.
love,
GS
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year2027
God first
Beloved Abigail
God loves you my dear friend
I am sorry you were lable wrong over here years ago because I for one know you are a very loving person
I had my emails "bounced" too and even edit ones two get posted
it blow my mind that my reply to "roy's colum about me over at gs cafe." was posted but I guess it because I told that it would be both places
it blessed me when you welcomed me
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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ChasUFarley
Sorry GS, but this sounds like damage control....
And when you say it's not about popularity, referring to your not being popular at the Yahoo board because you posted here, well... it usually IS about popularity. Like, when someone says something isn't about money - IT IS really about money. KnowwhatImean?
Honestly, if you're that censored over there - word count limits, etc., then why bother? The air is much fresher here, thank you.
Yah-hooo-oooooooooooooooo!
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dmiller
As for me, and *my house*, I won't get engaged in a *Board War*.
Like I said easlier -- the Yahoo ex-way group isn't *my cup of tea* --
BUT --- That doesn't mean that *cup of tea*, isn't potable for someone else.
If folks find support there, fine.
If it helps folks see the errors of twi -- fine.
If it gives folks a spot in cyberspace to vent about twi injustices -- great.
If it gives them a spot to *fellowship* -- wonderful.
If their *fellowship* doesn't include doctrine, or preaching -- so be it.
Board rules are just that --- Rules.
I stand by my original post, about Roy NOT being healing, but rather a divisive poster.
It's too bad all can't see that. Like someone else said -- he is consistant.
It's too bad that our common background;
or common future;
has become a battlefield;
due to private interpretatioin.
(I include mine as well).
Maybe WE CAN LET IT BE, EH?
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dmiller
Paraphrasing Tiny Tim ---
God bless us all (ex-twi), each and every one!! :) :) :)
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year2027
God first
Beloved ChasUFarley
God loves you my dear friend
good to see you
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Beloved David Miller
God loves you my dear friend
yes I do not want a board war and at times I think these tread is getting nowhere and should be locked but I trust Paw to lock it when and if it needs locking
I wish all would read your words in tread number 59
but maybe this tread is about venting as it might of been mine in the beginning because I should of just walk away
thanks for God blessing us all
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
and PS God bless Jim Martin
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Gentle Servant
Quote:
If folks find support there, fine.
If it helps folks see the errors of twi -- fine.
If it gives folks a spot in cyberspace to vent about twi injustices -- great.
If it gives them a spot to *fellowship* -- wonderful.
If their *fellowship* doesn't include doctrine, or preaching -- so be it.
David,
Great job at cutting through the bull. I think you really succinctly put this all in
perspective. Enjoyed the beatles link too.
And you are too damn funny!!
Roy you are unique and wonderful.
Wish the war in Iraq could end this quickly and well…!!!!
GBYA
GS
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dmiller
Roy --- if you want this thread locked, email Paw, at at
pawtuckett@greasespotcafe.com.
I did the same thing, with the thread about my sister's death, and the court ruling there after.
Some folks here were interested in hearing about the outcome.
and I told them..
But once I told them, I wasn't interested in talking about it any more.
I gave out the info, and didn't want to discuss matters, after I did.
I did the e-mail thing to Paw, and either he, or a MOD ---
locked down the thread -- per my request.
Personally -- I think some may have an ax to grind here,
but I think you're right.
It would be good to let things be.
No need for more accusations,
be it from the Yahoo group, or from GSCafe.
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year2027
God first
Beloved Gentle Servant
God loves you my friend
Yes David ir right
thank you
with love and holy kiss blowing your way Roy
Beloved David Miller
God loves you my dear friend
yes I done that on another tread but I just not sure here
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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Abigail
Gentle Servant, yes I have a few friends on the list, which is why I still keep my membership there. But I have a huge issue not so much with the rules themselves there, but how they are and aren't enforced. For example, you will notice that several posts insulting Roy and others from the cafe have been allowed to go through. However, you will also notice that my post, pointing out this and other inconsitancies will never see the light of day.
I will say, I am impressed that Jim tried to take up his issue with Roy via e-mail instead of publicly. My experience in the past was that moderators over there were free to lambaste the regular crowd as it suited them, but if one of the regulars who was lambasted attempted to respond they were put on moderation.
And yeah, DMiller, I probably do have an ax to grind.
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Belle
It seems to me that the only folks standing up for Jim are the ones who haven't been screwed by him yet.
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Gentle Servant
Quote:
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that
God hates all the same people you do.
Abigail,
You are way too sweet to be troubled by
bitterness and unforgiveness.
Hope you can put away your ax.
Jim is not perfect. Neither is Roy. Neither am I.
And Walker, well let's just say he has a lot of work to do.
I hope you can come and visit more often because you
are such a sweet heart.
It has been a pleasure to get to know a few of you better.
There are, as David mentioned, good points about each list
and I am glad to have access to them both.
Bottom line is that it is not profitable to create division
among the body of believers.
That would be what Rosalie would want. All of us to come
off looking like bitter, angry, backbiting people.
Full of divisiveness, factiousness, and gossip.
What would that look like to someone wanting to leave the
brainwashing factory. They'd probably say there isn't much of
an alternative out there.
Not a good idea to slander and malign our brothers and sisters
on either list.
Let's knock that off.
Truth is God loves us all in spite of all our imperfections.
And the good news is we are all free of the legalism, control and
paranoia of TWI.
We should be celebrating together!
Now let's get back to having fun together
and loving one another.
"Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a
harvest of righteousness."
So, thanks to those who make peace.
GS
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Abigail
"You are way too sweet to be troubled by
bitterness and unforgiveness.
Hope you can put away your ax."
Actually, I am rarely troubled by either of those things. What does trouble me is seeing people needlessly hurt. What also troubles me is seeing a place that claims to be there to help those who are exiting TWI hurt the very people who could benefit from it the most. Seeing people turned away because they are different, or still struggling. Seeing people turned away because they do not write well.
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FreeAtLast
Thanks White Dove I think I have heard that from a number of people and my email seems to be getting in again. The timing couldn't have been worse.
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Gentle Servant
Quote:
What does trouble me is seeing people needlessly hurt. What also troubles me is seeing a place that claims to be there to help those who are exiting TWI hurt the very people who could benefit from it the most. Seeing people turned away because they are different, or still struggling. Seeing people turned away because they do not write well.
Abigail,
I would have to agree with you that it is not good to hurt people. It is not good to post private
emails either. If someone sent me a private email saying they didn't like me I would be hurt,
but I wouldn't throw it out there to gain sympathy from others.
I have never seen someone who was exiting TWI get maligned, even in past posts there.
I think most people that go there do know how to write, but it is definitely not a requirement.
We like to laugh and have a good time as do the folks here.
Roy is welcome to post over there, but some do not enjoy his little idiosyncrasies like preaching,
teaching, prophesying, and blowing holy kisses. It is also against the rules to come across as
an elitist. You know like I am all spiritual and you are not. That kind of thing.
If he must continue with all that and he knows people don't like it over there, then why go there?
As for you being called a Troll, that was way cruel and uncalled for.
I would have protested had I been there at that time.
You are a good person and I hope you can forgive those who did that to you and
not hold it against the rest of us.
I am also sorry that Roy got hurt there.
GB
GS
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year2027
God first
Beloved Abigail, Belle, Gentle Servant, and FreeAtLast
God loves you all my dear friend
I think some there should read
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But I just want to move on while I did give some a reason why things happen the way they did if it gets posted
But its time for me to move on and let some of them be seen for what they think of me
While I forgive them all and ask God not to hold what some have said about me against them
I learn when a fight begins both are ussally wrong
I have grind my axe but if others need to grind there axe more ok but its over for me
I do not need sympathy from others from other I posted this just to reply what was in the open
I believe say nothing in private that you would not want in the open
This is said to be a place that is free
thank you
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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Abigail
Gentle Servant,
I would have to agree with you that it is not good to hurt people. It is not good to post private
emails either
I agree and have said as much. I also understand how someone who is hurt and angry might react out of that hurt and anger and do so. Roy has likewise apologized for doing it. I have yet to see anyone apologize for saying cruel things to him.
"I have never seen someone who was exiting TWI get maligned, even in past posts there."
Understood, but I have.
We like to laugh and have a good time as do the folks here.
Again, understood. I too like to laugh and have a good time.
Roy is welcome to post over there, but some do not enjoy his little idiosyncrasies like preaching,
teaching, prophesying, and blowing holy kisses. It is also against the rules to come across as
an elitist. You know like I am all spiritual and you are not. That kind of thing.
Those who don't like his idiosyncrasies do not have to read what he writes - the delete button works very well on unread e-mails. I do it myself quite frequently. As for "coming across as an elitest", well to some degree or another, that is in the eye of the beholder. However, having taken the time to get to know Roy, he does not strike me in the least bit as elitist - though I understand how he could come across to those who haven't taken the time to get to know him. Sometimes, one has to take a little time to get to know someone, to see below the surface, to understand where they are really coming from. Conversly, if they do not wish to invest time in getting to know someone, for whatever reason, there is nothing wrong with that. But to judge someone without knowing them does strike me as wrong.
"As for you being called a Troll, that was way cruel and uncalled for.
I would have protested had I been there at that time.
You are a good person and I hope you can forgive those who did that to you and
not hold it against the rest of us."
I don't hold it against those who did not participate. In some sense I don't even hold it against those who did. I understand how certain words and phrases can trigger a very negative emotional reaction. However, I have seen it happen to several people in various forms and that I do find disturbing. To see the very people who might stand to benefit the most from an honest and open discussions about their experience and beliefs be turned away is very upsetting to me, because I know how painful that can be. The front page of the list says it is for ex-wayfers to discuss, among other things, their experience in TWI. A large part of the TWI experience included doctrine. From that perspective, it seems to me doctrine would then be a valid discussion as long as it was kept polite and respetful.
The impression I get from what goes on there, is that most people want it to be a place where those who are over the worst of their TWI experience can come, kick back, kid around and have a good time. There is certainly nothing wrong with that at all. But, perhaps that is what the front page should say then, that way newcomers aren't so surprised when doctrinal discussions are not tolerated.
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