What in the name of God were we in?

[Dot Matrix]

Talking about CG being arrested-

Then, Lindy posted something Evan said in 2004

by giving us the link"

""Initiation into the Inner Sanctum of The Way". That was the name of the event. It was an early summer school stay for me...perhaps '71, maybe '73 or 4.

It was done between the pond & the road, same area as the ROA '71 site. a campfire was blazing. As I walked up, several black robed 7 hooded characters pointed silently with bony finger toward the campfire. Creepy. A group of us assembled, maybe 15 or 20 or so, around the fire, ringed by a line of black robed & hooded characters. Then Wierwille's arrival was announced by creepy chanting, I'm guessing in Latin. He was garbed like the others. He had stuff in his pockets he would grab and throw on the fire that would couse a big poof of flame. You get the picture. I can't remember what he was talking about, in a campily sinister voice. The hooded guards compelled the initiates to bow to 'the wizard'. Then he administered "the sacrement", communion-wafer smile, to aeach participant. It turned out to be some foul Indian horseradish-like root substance that burned like the fires of hell. My mouth was painfully scorched for 3 days.

That's what I can remember. Pretty wierd cult. I didn't frink the kool-ade, though."

This sounds pretty witchcrafty to me. The orgies are also in black witcraft in some covens. Which now would explain the group sex stuff with the TWI idiots.

What the F?

Was VPW the counterfiet to what BG Leonard and real preachers were doing?

There was the Jesus movement and then the WAY was a counterfiet with the blueprints drawn up in he ll? And the plan executed by a Grand Wizard living in a cornfield in Ohio?

I mean, what the F?

What were we really into?

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...mp;#entry150938

Sounds like the iluminade indoctrination

http://www.kt70.com/~jamesjpn/articles/joh..._illuminati.htm

Now, some have debunked John Todd, but I had his tape from around 1972- 74ish. And in the Jesus movement there were other things that talked about this group.

http://www.kt70.com/~jamesjpn/articles/illuminati_plan.htm

Edited October 21, 2006 by Dot Matrix

[Dot Matrix]

When I wrote my birth to the corps I did include that I had been a witch. I was looking for power in my life.

I choose Christianity.

But I wrote this in my paper THAT HE READ. Do you think that is WHY VPW sent for me? Then tried to "get me" He thought I already had a taste of "the life" and could handle it?

So, I got out of witchcraft, into Christianity to find out it was a cult, which may have been witchcraft with a grand wizard?

God, Evan did you have to hold the cross upside down and break the cross bar down? What else happened? I need to know. I think this maybe the final chapter in my understanding WHAT happened?

That was the big joke of the peace sign, in the 60's. It was the sign of the broken cross and kids everywhere were wearing it.

I am sorry but I am really upset. Thank you SOOOOO much for sharing all of this.

This might be a classic.

Edited October 21, 2006 by Dot Matrix

[excathedra]

but i thought all that stuff was just a big joke

[waysider]

The Inner Sanctum

That description fits to a tee the same experience I had at AC in '72 or '73.

To that I would add that I seem to recall there was blindfolding at the time the sacriment was given.

Also,if memory serves me, the hooded figures arrived in single file carrying some sort of actual lanterns.

My mouth burned for what seemed like days after that.

We were sworn to absolute secrecy not to ever reveal that ritual and as you can see I never have and never will.

[Bramble]

It doesn't sound like an initiation in any of the covens I know about. They do not use Christian symbols like the cross or Christian diety/adversaries like Satan.

You'd think if 'black' witchcraft was so popular there would be websites. Pagans love the internet. Why aren't they found on the Witche's Voice http://www.witchvox.com/

or Mysticwicks? http://www.mysticwicks.com/

or the Cauldron? http://www.ecauldron.net/

The Black Sabbath/mass sold their souls to satan witch covens makes a good story, but if you want actual information you might try http://www.religioustolerance.org/

Of course, the websites I've linked won't be ones that prime you up to think of witches as scary enemies. You'll have to go to Christian websites for that!

The TWI ceremony sounds alot like a college initiation I went through for a national Thespian society, not an actual coven initiation.

[Linda Z]

It was certainly a big joke to me and to the others I was with when we got "initiated."

It couldn't have been done any more tongue in cheek. Picture Gary Cxxtis and Del Dxxncan in long robes, trying to look serious but snickering. It was like a summer camp tradition. Nothing more.

[waysider]

The thespian reference makes perfect sense since there were many among them who were highly skilled at "ACTING" genuine .

Stanislovski and Strasberg would have delighted in the performances rendered.

[Hope R.]

I agree for the most part, Linda. There was lots of giggling and pond-tossing. I was told it was to relieve the stress from the "heaviness" of the Advanced Class that summer of 1973.

Personally, I thought it was hysterical. I will never forget Randy F**se and Barry J. in those robes, pointing the way to the campfire like the Ghosts of Christmas-Yet-To Come. They looked at me and said - "Ah... Neophyte"! I thought I was going to go in that nasty pond like others before me, but someone came to my rescue and told them I'd been initiated already! (they'd done it a few weeks before during Summer School).

Looking back - yeah, it was wierd, but I don't think it was "devilish". I don't think it was ever done again after that summer.

Anyway - I have funny memories of it - but, unlike Dot, I never ate the Indian Turnip. The same person who saved me from the pond told me to toss it... and I owe him my eternal gratitude!

Edited October 21, 2006 by Hope R.

[dmiller]

Then he administered "the sacrament", communion-wafer smile, to each participant. It turned out to be some foul Indian horseradish-like root substance that burned like the fires of hell. My mouth was painfully scorched for 3 days.

My mouth burned for what seemed like days after that.

You were probably fed Indian Turnip, or more commonly known as Jack-In-The-Pulpit.

Medical Uses: Despite its possible irritating effects there are several accounts of Native Americans using a preparation of the root on sore eyes. It was also used for cold symptoms and as a tonic. Externally it has been used for various skin infections and against pain and swelling.

Warning: No part of the fresh plant should be taken internally.

from http://2bnthewild.com/plants/H46.htm

I've touched the root to my tongue once, but never ate it. It burned like the dickens.

Ironic that a plant called *Jack-In-The-Pulpit, that would torture the participant,

was used for this *communion service*.

Guess docvic was warped in more ways than one (or two, or three), eh?

<_< <_< <_<

Edited October 21, 2006 by dmiller

[Dot Matrix]

Boy, I hope it was a joke.

When I read what Evan wrote it really caused me to go "Whoa"

I had a hard enough time coming to grips that I was tricked into a cult. If I found it was truly run by a Grand Wizard I would have to question my ability to judge anything.

So people were laughing and it was a joke?

Okay.

Maybe I am just a person who joined a cult rather than the rest...

I am just an x-cultist.

The grand wizard did not ask me for a BJ

Just a fat old cult leader.

Odd, but that makes me feel much better.

Edited October 21, 2006 by Dot Matrix

[Dot Matrix]

Hope, I did not eat the turnip, I am just reading a quote from Evan from another thread and it gave me the willys

Feeling better now thanks

[WordWolf]

I asked about the thing in 'my' "Secret Initiation?" thread.

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...ic=8433&hl=

The conclusion of that PARTICULAR thread about that PARTICULAR ceremony

was, for the most part,

that it was a stupid prank on the level of "Animal House" "mild" hazing,

some

"Repeat after me,

'I, state your name...'"

stuff.

Although some good questions were raised about how elaborate the preparations

were. Of course, some practical jokes take a lot of prep-time...

[GT]

WTF?

[Linda Z]

The thing is, when people make a big deal out of something silly like the "initiation ceremony," I think it causes people to be skeptical when they read about the genuinely bad stuff that happened.

I suppose if you were a young, impressionable kid when you did the initiation thing, you might have thought it was some big, mysterious, weird thing. But that wasn't my take on it at all.

[Dot Matrix]

I HAVE A VIRUS

Unsure where I got it. So, pls do not open the sites I listed on What in the name of God were we into? Unsure if I got it at the links I posted.

PS I was not at the ceromony. I read about it here and yes it seemed like a big deal. But thanks to you guys who were there, I am able to believe you and put it at rest as a joke.

Still perhaps IMO in poor taste to mimic a devilish ceremony as an aid to some kind of relief of stress? Especially from a group whom taght us spirits cling to things. Like if we saw Bambi at the theater and a porn flick had been there last week the spirits would still be there. So, perhaps funny to them. Perhaps, the joke was on us.

Sorry if I frightened anyone else, and yes it was very disconcerting

Just like killing the chickens at LEAD were a bit ODD to me

WW

ITs okay, I state my name was into a Christian cult not a devil cult....

Better

Thank you

Edited October 21, 2006 by Dot Matrix

[WordWolf]

I HAVE A VIRUS

Unsure where I got it. So, pls do not open the sites I listed on What in the name of God were we into? Unsure if I got it at the links I posted.

I ran Dr Web's antivirus link checker on each link.

They came up clean.

Although I didnt check the link to another page on this forum,

because DUH.

So, should be safe to click.

[Belle]

Yeah, to a kid, someone who is naive, not very observant or just all caught up in the seriousness of the ministry and/or a combination of all those things - it would be very easy to see how they would take it seriously and totally miss the comedy behind it. If that happened, they would certainly be confused, scared and upset.

Heck, I'm sure we all run into situations where people take the most benign statement and twist it to something totally unrelated. They, in their misunderstanding, create drama where there shouldn't be any and it takes for friggin' ever to clear up the situation.

[lindyhopper]

When I origianlly read what Evan wrote he did say it was supposed to be all a joke. To me it still sounded like an F'ed up thing for a Christian organization to be joking about.

But, read WaySurvivor's post on the Child Abuse thread again. This was happening in 87ish? The girl had nightmares and messed up memories about this for years. It sounds like someone let the joke go too far if she saw it as a young girl and they chased her. Sounds like an F'ed up thing that got out of hand....which maybe that is why it stopped. Sounds like somethng I never would have believed was happened while still in.

[waysider]

I think everyone there understood it was tongue in cheek(or was that turnip in cheek?)

the thing is it was :

1.)LAME with a capital L,etc.

2.)Contradictory to what we had just heard taught about how even simple rituals could invite devil spirits.

And the part about the "oath of secrecy" GIMME A BREAK!

But hey!-----mum's the word. You didn't hear it from me. SHHH!

[Dot Matrix]

Here is the thing Lindy Waysider:

I agree with you.

It is not FUNNY to me and obviously to that kid. I have had first hand experience with witchcraft. It is very powerful evil.

For a ministry to dress that way and introduce VP as the Grand Wizard --

At the time it was sold as a joke.

Hahahaha

Now, here we are all these years later.

VP was having adulterous affairs as far back as BEFORE TWI and in his early years... He has sexually acosted people in his own bloodline, in his own ministry, wpmen and their daughters. He has given girls here something TO DRINK to "get" them.

Some of us have seen the sex parties

HE spoke with such foul language that Exxie thought it came from the mouth of Satan.

HE trained his inner circle to keep secrets about the goings on.

My sister spoke the WORD to one of his aids at a wierd party where people were rubbing each other and it got weird so she left. But before she left she was told you don't still believe the Bible sh it do you?

Wait until you are around a while.

At least three of us posters know of "pot" that was smoled by leaders and it was OKAY. Because they could handle it.

Remeber Dovie? She had a young son die and the ministry told her to get rid of all his pictures and not to talk about him anymore. Because talking about him, and the fact that he died, gave place to the devil. She was not allowed to grieve as it gave place to the devil. YET the same ministry thought it was okay to dress a witchcraft wizards and act as if it were a coven meeting by throwing things on a fire to have it puff up and introduce VP as the grand Wizard. In their thinking THAT didn't give place to the devil. THAT was okay?

And the bitter thing that burned the mouth? Is that loving? It still doesn't sit right.

Kids have been molested, woman have been raped, we have all seen at least some of the lies....

What if it wasn't ever a GOOD ministry but something hatched in he ll to stop the Jesus movement in our lives?

You do not have to accept this but what if VP went to Leonard's class and like the parasite he was stole Maggie Muggins, research and even the part where BG said God spoke to him. Just to stop us from hearing the truth.

Suppose it was to pull people from a strong truth to a dilluted version?

VP got sex, money and worship from TWI.

One day while VP, Chris and Barbara were in the barn delivering pups, VP stopped to scream at her in a voice from he ll and told her she was a stupid worthless c*nt! Yeah, he was a man of God. Which God?

Doesn't sound Godly. What if the joke was on US. That it really was as John Todd speaks about a part of the plan to move people away from the word of God?

His right hand man CG many of us experienced as a mean horrble man, and we are still hearing about his crap from across the pond.

Now you can say it was a joke and perhaps it was but what if the whole thing really was evil and this MEETING in the woods with the snickers were because this group of men did lead us away from the truth?

So, it was either a joke that wasn't funny to all or it was an actual thing fronted in humor but founded in the dark heart of a man who used people's love of God.

Go see the movie on THANK YOU for not smoking to see a "spin" Doctor in action. I think VP was brilliant at it.

Edited October 21, 2006 by Dot Matrix

[Dot Matrix]

Like I am reminded of this:

Sound like a Christian minister to you? Or maybe a Christian who went a stray?

Or maybe a man in a robe who wasn't joking

http://www.uia.net/~messiah7/ltr_marsha.htm

And that Cannoron also speaks of death threats.

Think what you want people, so will I. But when inncident after inncident is added together maybe it does equal something we/most of us are unable to even entertain as the possible truth is the truth

Edited October 21, 2006 by Dot Matrix

[Dot Matrix]

Those who have emailed me, I will not use your stuff or names.

But thanks for telling me you have also felt this way and some suspect things you witnessed. And to those who don't that is okay. I love you and you do not have to think the way I might be thinking. I might be wrong. And I can live with your thinking I am out there on this one.

But praise God I can still think.

Edited again for spelling errors

Edited October 21, 2006 by Dot Matrix

[CONNERRON]

Hello:

For everyone thinking about this initiation , I was approached with worse things than any of that and refused them, but remember Wierwille was hearing "THE AUDIBLE VOICE OF THE LORD", does this word association not make you think, A LORD OF SATAN, OR SATAN HIS SELF, is about the only one with the rank , and arrogance to do such things. In the O.T. the Chaldee used to hear as mystics from the spirits in "secret speech" , and I believe that Wierwille was either possesed by a major devil , with lots of helps, to

"annoint" themselves onto persons at verious points, or he was a serious sick puppy, or both. Most people

don't "come to that knid of power and wealth that fast , unless you're Abraham, Bill Gates, or demonicly assisted. And all the stories about ole Dr. , I would assume have truth to them, and so what do you think?

Thanks, and God Bless you,

connerron

[dmiller]

For what it is worth -- Dot has it right (IMO).

We (faithful followers of twi -- versus followers of Jesus Christ)

were told to get rid of ALL MUSIC -- throw out those records!!

Toss out anything meaningful to you -- cause it didn't come from us (twi).

Art, Books, Music, yer grandma's antique pink tea set, etc.

You didn't get it from us -- Therefore it is of THE DEVIL.

Devil Spirits -- dont'cha know?? What a wunnerful catch-phrase for them to spout.

And then for THIS SCENARIO to take place -- practical joke or not ---

totally negates everydamnthingtheysaidtousearlier!!!

What the heck was Uncle Harry Day about -- if top brass couldn't do the same??

They gave us the *shoes*, but they couldn't fill them themselves.

Flies in the face of what we were told, and

what was expected of us -- the *mere believers*.

One more example -- of the *Talk* not meeting up with the *Walk*.

Yea -- TWI = Talk/Walk/Incompatible. Finally making sense to me.

Edited October 23, 2006 by dmiller

[Watered Garden]

With the initiation and Indian turnip thing, I gotta second Linda Z. My husband was in it as a teen at summer camp or the Adv. Class or something. When he told me about it he laughed uproariously. Thank God no one ever tried that on me. I would have spit out a string of cusswords hotter than the "wafer."

No sense of humor for things that hurt people. Guess I'm just not spiritual enough.