what a perspecitve this has given me. Unless we were taught by our parents to plan a life most just do not.
Early aldulthood is suppose to be one of taking risks and meeting the challenge of change . or simply rebellion of what our parents may have done that harmed us as individuals . it happens.
My sister is a control freak and her hubby, they are most loving and would give you anything you need as long as they have the say in your life and they do it out of loving hearts.
our relationship has been a struggle, at time I really hate them it seems the "love" is so dam conditional.
and the price one pays. Here is the thing for me about control and who is kidding who we ALL want to think we can control our life and we should.
When panic attacks and depression happen because it isnt working it is time to look into WHY that is happening .
my other sister who NEVER would dream of saying the other sister could be wrong has these issues and i think it is very telling about how control can ruin an individual .
life is life i tell my kids they are grown now and I tell them make plans do your best work always get knowledge try new things. But most of all KNOW nothing you do is who you are.
know relationships either change with you or they go away and that is not always a bad thing just moment in time to love another.
Is that controlling? to me it is truth. where as my sister loks at it in horrid unhappy relationship all must be just fine and dandy and no problem can happen because they have a grip on everything everyone could possibly do or think.
good luck I say I can not change another nor do I desire to. maybe they need to be at that place i do not get. and that is ok.
I have had all the plans and life so GREAT fall in the sewer to start again. so I do not know what it like to live a life without bad things happening.
i do not know how i can change my reality, and i amnot in controll , i llok at those who think they are and notice oftentimes from my perspective it is an illusion . maybe im bitter I do not know
The Lord, I believe, really does have the whole world in His hands, and although He cannot control what people do, He can give those who listen to His voice direction and guidance.
We respond to the situation at hand, and our response is determined by the preparation of our lives.
We cannot, just as the Lord cannot, control the Osama Bin Laden's of the world due to that most precious commodity of free will.
We choose our response.
Those firemen and others who responded sacrificially on 9/11/01 chose to do so. The situation was not of their choosing, but their response was.
The soldiers who are doing their utmost to serve and protect, the policemen (and women) who face such fearsome situations in their lines of duty respond to the best of their ability.
As do we all, I believe.
The preparation of our lives determine our ability to evaluate the situation we are in, and that we can control.
The man and woman (or boy and girl) who choose to have or not have intercourse have control over whether or not there will be a decision regarding a baby.
Control I believe is governed in the preparation and forethought of our lives, like the farm had who declared when asked about how he worked, "I can sleep in a storm." He could say that because he maintained the fences, always put aways the farm equipment and tools, and always put the animals securely away in the evening, securely locking the barn door.
What we control and what we don't changes constantly. Sometimes we make decisions that down the road result in unpleasant consequenses: we don't always see the connection.
A few years ago my oldest son was an assistant department manager at the company that I now work for. His immediate supervisor, the department manager, was in the Nat'l Guard and would be gone for 2 weeks. This was my son's first opportunity to run the department on his own, to show the store director what he was made out of. So what did my son do? He spent the weekend at the lake with the rest of the family, sunbathing, without any sunscreen; he fell asleep and got seriously sunburned. Ended up in the hospital with sunstroke (or somethin'). He missed over a week of work.
The store director got on his case about the decisions he made. My son maintained that it wasn't his fault. I agree more with the store director. You have to think about the consequenses of your actions.
I believe that in any situation one needs to look at what happened and determine whether anything could have been done to prevent it, so it doesn't happen again. Will that eliminate all problems? Nope, because some things are outside our control!
Seems to me we all had enough of trying to control life while we were in the Way. Just build your believing, ya know. And it gets harder when you are expected to control other people.
Now it may be wise to plan and set objectives and all that, but it will never eliminate the unexpected because we are only finite.
yeah, just when you think you have your goals and plan all laid out and things are running smoothly, life has a way of pulling the rug out from underneath you. I have to believe there is a bigger plan with a better goal and that the "rug pulling" is a part of that.
Another cool thread, Bramble! It's sort of complementary to your Faith thread. Everybody has some great stuff here!
Bramble – I'm with you on "Religions, Christian and other, seem to be all over the place on human control in life." I remember back in my TWI-daze reading a teaching by Oral Roberts on the passage in Luke 8: 22-25 where Jesus stills the sea. I use to like his slant on it so much I would use it sometimes when I taught on that "law of believing" nonsense. Roberts' clincher was typical of most health-and-wealth preachers TWI[/b] – after awhile they all sound alike to me – and it's been so long ago]. Where verse 25 has the disciples asking "Who then is this, that He commands even the winds and the water, and they obey Him?" – Roberts said the disciples should have asked "what kind of faith is this that it commands even the winds and the water, and they obey it?" Do you see the difference? The text shows the disciples were fascinated…awestruck…with this amazing person in the boat with them - attributing their miraculous rescue to Him. The "law of believing" fans take the focus off Jesus Christ and zero in on figuring out how He did it…thinking that He used a Star Wars-like-Force to control the environment…
And that flows right into Pond's comments – we all want to think we have such total control over our lives and really don't – and for those who do think that - it's really just an illusion…I'm the same way – sometimes it scares me when things go awry and my head is spinning – "Uh oh – sound the alarm – there's chaos in my little kingdom – who or what dares to defy my power!?!? Ummm…That is in my jurisdiction isn't it?"
TempleLady – Yup, the only thing I've got a bead on is the exact second - - hold on - - wait… wait - - here it comes – NOW! LOL – I crack myself up sometimes – in looking forward to that approaching second I missed experiencing the one I was in…and now it's gone. Holy quantum heaps – I'm stuck in a temporal conundrum of Delorian/McFly proportions! But seriously – I think that's a good point you bring up – when my "control freak" breaks out of solitary confinement it seems like my goal is either to change the past or guarantee the future.
Kit Sober – really enjoyed your post, "We choose our response." And "The preparation of our lives determine our ability to evaluate the situation we are in, and that we can control."… When trouble comes my way or I'm worrying about something – I'm aware of a this inner struggle sometimes. Can't pin it down – but it's conflicting thoughts like: "I've been praying and trying my best to rectify this all week – so why ain't it working out?!?!" I see that I'm initially choosing my response [prayer and appropriate action] but as the situation goes on – my "closet control freak" starts wondering why my superpowers are waning – is there kryptonite nearby? I believe God answers prayer – but sometimes get frustrated because it's not the answer I wanted. Like Paul praying to God three times about his thorn in the flesh. God answered his prayer – He didn't take it away – instead He provided grace, strength.
Waysider - "The harder I work, the luckier I get." Believe it or not - I sort of see a correlation with that and Kit's thing on choosing our response and preparation. I have this dumb Forrest Gump-ish view of reality sometimes – we're all in our boats afloat this ocean. I do have some control – the speed and direction of my boat – but still there is the tides, waves, currents upon which I ride. I may even be influenced by the wake of another boat – or they from mine. [Now be forewarned - I'm going turn on my Televangelist Machine] "So if you want to have greater influence on people and more power in your life – then as Richard Dryfus once said, 'I think you're gonna need a bigger boat.'" …Speaking of boats and control – that reminds me of James 3 about taming the tongue – verse 4 likens the tongue to a small rudder that controls a big ship – the tongue is small, yes – but has a big influence in your life. I just think about the good or bad things I've said to people, times I should have kept my mouth shut, times I should have spoken up, times that I've gone overboard in a gripe session…Uh oh – another TWI flashback – I remember someone getting our whole branch into the "power of the tongue nonsense" – making all kinds of positive confessions to alter reality, to get what you want…Again – there's religion for yah – "let's see what I can do with this trade secret."
Oakspear – "What we control and what we don't changes constantly. Sometimes we make decisions that down the road result in unpleasant consequences: we don't always see the connection." Ain't that the truth! I tell yah – do you know what a revelation it was to me leaving behind TWI's law-of-believing-crap and starting to see there was some kind of relationship between what I actually DO with reality and what happens in reality! Amazing.
DrtDzn - "Now it may be wise to plan and set objectives and all that, but it will never eliminate the unexpected because we are only finite." …I wonder about God creating us in His own image and likeness. Back in Genesis He told them everything in the world was theirs and to rule over it [Genesis 1:28]. Maybe it's in our nature - this desire to control.
Abigail – "…just when you think you have your goals and plan all laid out and things are running smoothly, life has a way of pulling the rug out from underneath you. I have to believe there is a bigger plan with a better goal and that the "rug pulling" is a part of that."…Great thought – I need to remind myself of that more often!
Dancing – "I think there is a great fear of lost control. Rather then fear it, investigate it."…Wow – that's a great key! There's a lot to that. I remember the fears my wife and I had when our son went touring about Europe with a friend. What will he do about this or that? What if this or that happens? As we'd talk about it we'd realize some of that was the old thing of parents sensing a loss of control, of being there to help in a pinch.
And the really big, all-encompassing, far-reaching events in our lives we have little or nothing to say about.
Like, what country you were born in, was there a war going on, what kind of parents you had (if any), did you have any birth defects, abnormalities, how intelligent you are, how wealthy was your family (or poverty stricken), did you get proper nutrition in your formitive years, did you get a reasonable education, will you get a life-altering disease in later life, will your life be cut short by accident or catastrophe (flood, famine, earthquake), lots of that kinda stuff.
And how about if some terrorist has planted a dirty bomb in your neighborhood? Lots of stuff to screw up our well-laid plans and our "built" believing. And there ain't squat you can do about any of it.
I've come to the conclusion that fate is one capricious mutha#$%&er and it doesn't matter one whit how much we pray, believe, or how many herbal teas we drink, it can all come crashing down in an instant - or not. We have far less control than we'd like to think...
I said nothing about planning, preparation, financing, saving for a rainy day, etc. All of those are wonderful things that we should all do more of. I was simply pointing out that there are real, life-changing events that we have little or no control over. Big things. Things that can and do bring all that planning and preparation to nought. And for all our efforts the "control" over our own lives then becomes minimal. If we happened to live enchanted lives where none of that stuff happens, well, wonderful. But there's no guarantees.
Yeah, it's not the fun, formulaic, "believing equals receiving" pablum we lived off of during our WayWorld tenure, but it's the reality we do live in, like it or not. I tend to prefer reality over pipedreams. I'm funny that way...
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pond
My kids are now the age I was in twi.
what a perspecitve this has given me. Unless we were taught by our parents to plan a life most just do not.
Early aldulthood is suppose to be one of taking risks and meeting the challenge of change . or simply rebellion of what our parents may have done that harmed us as individuals . it happens.
My sister is a control freak and her hubby, they are most loving and would give you anything you need as long as they have the say in your life and they do it out of loving hearts.
our relationship has been a struggle, at time I really hate them it seems the "love" is so dam conditional.
and the price one pays. Here is the thing for me about control and who is kidding who we ALL want to think we can control our life and we should.
When panic attacks and depression happen because it isnt working it is time to look into WHY that is happening .
my other sister who NEVER would dream of saying the other sister could be wrong has these issues and i think it is very telling about how control can ruin an individual .
life is life i tell my kids they are grown now and I tell them make plans do your best work always get knowledge try new things. But most of all KNOW nothing you do is who you are.
know relationships either change with you or they go away and that is not always a bad thing just moment in time to love another.
Is that controlling? to me it is truth. where as my sister loks at it in horrid unhappy relationship all must be just fine and dandy and no problem can happen because they have a grip on everything everyone could possibly do or think.
good luck I say I can not change another nor do I desire to. maybe they need to be at that place i do not get. and that is ok.
I have had all the plans and life so GREAT fall in the sewer to start again. so I do not know what it like to live a life without bad things happening.
i do not know how i can change my reality, and i amnot in controll , i llok at those who think they are and notice oftentimes from my perspective it is an illusion . maybe im bitter I do not know
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templelady
The only control anyone has in life is the exact second NOW
the past is immutable the future unknown
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Kit Sober
Appropriate reponse is how I would look at it.
The Lord, I believe, really does have the whole world in His hands, and although He cannot control what people do, He can give those who listen to His voice direction and guidance.
We respond to the situation at hand, and our response is determined by the preparation of our lives.
We cannot, just as the Lord cannot, control the Osama Bin Laden's of the world due to that most precious commodity of free will.
We choose our response.
Those firemen and others who responded sacrificially on 9/11/01 chose to do so. The situation was not of their choosing, but their response was.
The soldiers who are doing their utmost to serve and protect, the policemen (and women) who face such fearsome situations in their lines of duty respond to the best of their ability.
As do we all, I believe.
The preparation of our lives determine our ability to evaluate the situation we are in, and that we can control.
The man and woman (or boy and girl) who choose to have or not have intercourse have control over whether or not there will be a decision regarding a baby.
Control I believe is governed in the preparation and forethought of our lives, like the farm had who declared when asked about how he worked, "I can sleep in a storm." He could say that because he maintained the fences, always put aways the farm equipment and tools, and always put the animals securely away in the evening, securely locking the barn door.
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waysider
"The harder I work, the luckier I get"
I don't rcall who said it but it makes a lot of sense.
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Bramble
Kit, thanks for sharing. That was lovely and made alot of sense.
Waysider--I liked that slogan and have seen thwt happen many times.
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Oakspear
What we control and what we don't changes constantly. Sometimes we make decisions that down the road result in unpleasant consequenses: we don't always see the connection.
A few years ago my oldest son was an assistant department manager at the company that I now work for. His immediate supervisor, the department manager, was in the Nat'l Guard and would be gone for 2 weeks. This was my son's first opportunity to run the department on his own, to show the store director what he was made out of. So what did my son do? He spent the weekend at the lake with the rest of the family, sunbathing, without any sunscreen; he fell asleep and got seriously sunburned. Ended up in the hospital with sunstroke (or somethin'). He missed over a week of work.
The store director got on his case about the decisions he made. My son maintained that it wasn't his fault. I agree more with the store director. You have to think about the consequenses of your actions.
I believe that in any situation one needs to look at what happened and determine whether anything could have been done to prevent it, so it doesn't happen again. Will that eliminate all problems? Nope, because some things are outside our control!
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DrtyDzn
Seems to me we all had enough of trying to control life while we were in the Way. Just build your believing, ya know. And it gets harder when you are expected to control other people.
Now it may be wise to plan and set objectives and all that, but it will never eliminate the unexpected because we are only finite.
Jerry
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Abigail
yeah, just when you think you have your goals and plan all laid out and things are running smoothly, life has a way of pulling the rug out from underneath you. I have to believe there is a bigger plan with a better goal and that the "rug pulling" is a part of that.
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dancing
I think there is a great fear of lost control.
Rather then fear it, investigate it.
Why am I not in control?
Who is controling?
What is the purpose?
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T-Bone
Another cool thread, Bramble! It's sort of complementary to your Faith thread. Everybody has some great stuff here!
Bramble – I'm with you on "Religions, Christian and other, seem to be all over the place on human control in life." I remember back in my TWI-daze reading a teaching by Oral Roberts on the passage in Luke 8: 22-25 where Jesus stills the sea. I use to like his slant on it so much I would use it sometimes when I taught on that "law of believing" nonsense. Roberts' clincher was typical of most health-and-wealth preachers TWI[/b] – after awhile they all sound alike to me – and it's been so long ago]. Where verse 25 has the disciples asking "Who then is this, that He commands even the winds and the water, and they obey Him?" – Roberts said the disciples should have asked "what kind of faith is this that it commands even the winds and the water, and they obey it?" Do you see the difference? The text shows the disciples were fascinated…awestruck…with this amazing person in the boat with them - attributing their miraculous rescue to Him. The "law of believing" fans take the focus off Jesus Christ and zero in on figuring out how He did it…thinking that He used a Star Wars-like-Force to control the environment…
And that flows right into Pond's comments – we all want to think we have such total control over our lives and really don't – and for those who do think that - it's really just an illusion…I'm the same way – sometimes it scares me when things go awry and my head is spinning – "Uh oh – sound the alarm – there's chaos in my little kingdom – who or what dares to defy my power!?!? Ummm…That is in my jurisdiction isn't it?"
TempleLady – Yup, the only thing I've got a bead on is the exact second - - hold on - - wait… wait - - here it comes – NOW! LOL – I crack myself up sometimes – in looking forward to that approaching second I missed experiencing the one I was in…and now it's gone. Holy quantum heaps – I'm stuck in a temporal conundrum of Delorian/McFly proportions! But seriously – I think that's a good point you bring up – when my "control freak" breaks out of solitary confinement it seems like my goal is either to change the past or guarantee the future.
Kit Sober – really enjoyed your post, "We choose our response." And "The preparation of our lives determine our ability to evaluate the situation we are in, and that we can control."… When trouble comes my way or I'm worrying about something – I'm aware of a this inner struggle sometimes. Can't pin it down – but it's conflicting thoughts like: "I've been praying and trying my best to rectify this all week – so why ain't it working out?!?!" I see that I'm initially choosing my response [prayer and appropriate action] but as the situation goes on – my "closet control freak" starts wondering why my superpowers are waning – is there kryptonite nearby? I believe God answers prayer – but sometimes get frustrated because it's not the answer I wanted. Like Paul praying to God three times about his thorn in the flesh. God answered his prayer – He didn't take it away – instead He provided grace, strength.
Waysider - "The harder I work, the luckier I get." Believe it or not - I sort of see a correlation with that and Kit's thing on choosing our response and preparation. I have this dumb Forrest Gump-ish view of reality sometimes – we're all in our boats afloat this ocean. I do have some control – the speed and direction of my boat – but still there is the tides, waves, currents upon which I ride. I may even be influenced by the wake of another boat – or they from mine. [Now be forewarned - I'm going turn on my Televangelist Machine] "So if you want to have greater influence on people and more power in your life – then as Richard Dryfus once said, 'I think you're gonna need a bigger boat.'"
…Speaking of boats and control – that reminds me of James 3 about taming the tongue – verse 4 likens the tongue to a small rudder that controls a big ship – the tongue is small, yes – but has a big influence in your life. I just think about the good or bad things I've said to people, times I should have kept my mouth shut, times I should have spoken up, times that I've gone overboard in a gripe session…Uh oh – another TWI flashback – I remember someone getting our whole branch into the "power of the tongue nonsense" – making all kinds of positive confessions to alter reality, to get what you want…Again – there's religion for yah – "let's see what I can do with this trade secret."
Oakspear – "What we control and what we don't changes constantly. Sometimes we make decisions that down the road result in unpleasant consequences: we don't always see the connection." Ain't that the truth! I tell yah – do you know what a revelation it was to me leaving behind TWI's law-of-believing-crap and starting to see there was some kind of relationship between what I actually DO with reality and what happens in reality! Amazing.
DrtDzn - "Now it may be wise to plan and set objectives and all that, but it will never eliminate the unexpected because we are only finite." …I wonder about God creating us in His own image and likeness. Back in Genesis He told them everything in the world was theirs and to rule over it [Genesis 1:28]. Maybe it's in our nature - this desire to control.
Abigail – "…just when you think you have your goals and plan all laid out and things are running smoothly, life has a way of pulling the rug out from underneath you. I have to believe there is a bigger plan with a better goal and that the "rug pulling" is a part of that."…Great thought – I need to remind myself of that more often!
Dancing – "I think there is a great fear of lost control. Rather then fear it, investigate it."…Wow – that's a great key! There's a lot to that. I remember the fears my wife and I had when our son went touring about Europe with a friend. What will he do about this or that? What if this or that happens? As we'd talk about it we'd realize some of that was the old thing of parents sensing a loss of control, of being there to help in a pinch.
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George Aar
And the really big, all-encompassing, far-reaching events in our lives we have little or nothing to say about.
Like, what country you were born in, was there a war going on, what kind of parents you had (if any), did you have any birth defects, abnormalities, how intelligent you are, how wealthy was your family (or poverty stricken), did you get proper nutrition in your formitive years, did you get a reasonable education, will you get a life-altering disease in later life, will your life be cut short by accident or catastrophe (flood, famine, earthquake), lots of that kinda stuff.
And how about if some terrorist has planted a dirty bomb in your neighborhood? Lots of stuff to screw up our well-laid plans and our "built" believing. And there ain't squat you can do about any of it.
I've come to the conclusion that fate is one capricious mutha#$%&er and it doesn't matter one whit how much we pray, believe, or how many herbal teas we drink, it can all come crashing down in an instant - or not. We have far less control than we'd like to think...
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dancing
hi george
your list leaves out the really big, all-encompassing, far-reaching events in our lives
and there are things we can do about it
not only the things in your list
but those things that you may have ruled out
and i don't mean prayer the way you think of it
plus there is a hell of a lot more then prayer that can be done
on another note
my entire school district staff
of which i'm a part of
just had a day conference
with the department of homeland security
prevention-mitigation
preparedness
response
recovery
it was an interesting day for sure
might want to look up some of those words
maybe you don't believe they exist
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dancing
0 yeah,
there were also reps from fed law enforcement
police departments
and government officials there too
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George Aar
So then, you're all safe now right?
Nothing to worry about fer you, right? Everything's under control...
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dancing
george
just cause you like to change my meaning to suit yourself
that don't change what i meant
you want an argument
i'm saying there are things you are missing
probably intentionally to justify your own ignorance
your privilege
and my privilege to counter your point of view
nothing was said about everyone being safe
you changed the subject
it's about how much control do we have over life
you are basically saying none
i say we have more then we realize
IF we just search it out
and we are all ignorant in various things
wonder what would happen if we listened to each other?
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dancing
and i can say more about
prevention-mitigation
preparedness
response
recovery
if anyone is interested
another day though
i'm going to bed
of course this is about saving lives
and changing lives
not sure if this is what bramble had in mind
from bramble
george you used different terms then finances, jobs etc
these things work the same basically in other situations
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George Aar
O.K. Clay,
I'll write reeeeal slow so you can understand.
I said nothing about planning, preparation, financing, saving for a rainy day, etc. All of those are wonderful things that we should all do more of. I was simply pointing out that there are real, life-changing events that we have little or no control over. Big things. Things that can and do bring all that planning and preparation to nought. And for all our efforts the "control" over our own lives then becomes minimal. If we happened to live enchanted lives where none of that stuff happens, well, wonderful. But there's no guarantees.
Yeah, it's not the fun, formulaic, "believing equals receiving" pablum we lived off of during our WayWorld tenure, but it's the reality we do live in, like it or not. I tend to prefer reality over pipedreams. I'm funny that way...
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dancing
you keep implying that i'm promoting something i'm not
and i'll keep shoving it back in your slow face
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dancing
i estimate the dead to be at least 100
in their actual vulnerability penetration operation
into our schools
it was only a vulnerability test
100 kids are not really dead
what can we do
THINK mainly
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dancing
yeah, no response george
good
those who know nothing should say nothing
or ask
don't see that happening
damn shame'
just let 'fate' f you
keep bending over
sticking your head in the sand
bye
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