Legalism Stories

[E. W. Bullinger]

Dear Greasespot:

I sometimes wonder why I stayed with the Way after it got so legalistic in the 1990’s. So in light of this I thought it might be interesting if we could share legalism stories. Here is one that makes me sad just to remember it:

In 1995 fellowship started to become a real drag. There were twig meetings held three times a week plus a mandatory witnessing night. If you did not show up for one activity you were called on the carpet and your commitment to God was questioned. However, I remembered past deliverance in my life so I faithfully attended twig. In our fellowship was a tender-hearted woman named Ellen who was an excellent cook. She could make the most flavorful and wholesome meals from virtually nothing. In ministry parlance she had a “longsuit” in the domestic arts.

A local high school was offering an eight week evening class in cake decorating that she wanted to attend. She discovered that it was held on a night without a twig or witnessing commitment so she asked the coordinator if she could take the class. He asked her why she wanted this class. She said she loved cooking and it would be her pleasure to make birthday, anniversary and class cakes for the Believers. The coordinator was not sure if he could grant this request so he asked up the way tree. It seems that this was such a big decision that the limb coordinator had to make the final judgment.

So after all of this discussion she was allowed to take the class. However there was trouble right around the corner. It seems that the teacher of the class had a friend who had baked the first president Bush’s inauguration cake and she was coming to town to teach a master class of how she did it. This was literally a unique event; she was going to discuss how to bake a cake for thousands of guests in borrowed facilities with the Secret Service looking over your shoulder. There were also special considerations of the cake itself. The first Bush had made his “thousand points of light” speech and this cake was to have one thousand electric lights in it. She had to invent a special icing that would not melt from the heat given off by the lights and the cake had an ingenious wiring system so that it could be served easily. This gifted baker was going to give a master class for one night only and the teacher of the high school class had managed to get an invitation for all her beginning students to attend. This event was so highly anticipated that pastry chefs were vying for a seat in this class. The only problem is that this event fell on twig witnessing night.

As soon as Ellen found out about the schedule conflict she asked for permission to attend this class. She promised that she would witness to everyone that she met and that this would be a great opportunity for outreach. However leadership was wary, as they demanded that she bring another Believer so she could go two-by-two. However the class was full and it was audacious to ask for exception especially since she was a beginning student in a master class. She was persuasive and was reluctantly given permission by leadership to attend.

However this came to bite her in the foot. A few months later when about one third of our twig area was Marked and Avoided she was in that group. I never learned the reason that she was M & A, but I have a sneaky suspicion that this was why she got the boot.

E. W. Bullinger

P. S. What irked me about this situation is that was based on crazy Loy boy’s ideas of commitment. I remember how in the old days it was expected that if you had an outside interest God would bless it. I am thinking about Pro 18:16 where a man’s gift makes room for him. I am convinced that this was an example of God blessing her life and the legalistic ministry stepped on her heart.

[pinklady]

I have alot of legalistic stories. I was actually told I had to have leadership approval for dinner quests.

My 17 year old was woirking and they sent someone to his work to say we were evil because we left.

We were questioned for missing a fellowhip. We were given a book by the leaders wife on how to get up to tithing 90%!! We wanted to put in a pool and the leader said we should not do that unless we tithe.

There were many more but just to let you know I stood up to them. my soon to be ex did not. I never cared for legalism and I never let someone try to dictate my life.

[mstar1]

Ive been out along time so I have a hard time remembering how incredibly stupid TWI was.

How pathetic can it go when an adult has to ask permission to take a cake decorating class.

A cake decorating class??..What..was Christ gonna go out of business if she took it???

It gets even worse when the next one up the rung cant figure it out and it has to continue to go up until someone can make this momentous and earthshattering decision.

What a complete pile of sh!t they subjected people to.....

What would they ever do if they had to deal with real problems

Edited October 17, 2006 by mstar1

[doojable]

The sad thing is that I heard of a time when a certain "leader" in CA said that he couldn't pray for a man's son unless he got permission from Loy Boy - Geez!

This isn't my story so I can't tell it - but rest assured that I got real sick just hearing about it......

So much pain and so little compassion - makes one almost cry...

[RumRunner]

Lovely - he believed he got his revelation from LCM and not God is the message there... Pope Loy the first...

Oh I could have so much fun with that one Dooj

The sad thing is that I heard of a time when a certain "leader" in CA said that he couldn't pray for a man's son unless he got permission from Loy Boy - Geez!

This isn't my story so I can't tell it - but rest assured that I got real sick just hearing about it......

So much pain and so little compassion - makes one almost cry...

[TrustAndObey]

I'm just surprised she even asked her coordinator for permission... Heck, when things started going that way, I just didn't let them into my business. What I did, was what I did, what I wanted them to know (and I knew they would approve), I'd tell em.. That way there was no conflict!

But then again, it never solved the problem of how legalistic things got.. Especially that 2x2 thing.. Dang, I couldn't even be expected to drive 30 miles down the road to the next town unless I had the covering of a second person! How stupid is that?! Well, I just said I was going up the street when that started... Never mentioning how long that street was!

Anyone on staff knows how hard they pressed them into staying close to HQ and litterally wanted to know where you went, when you went.. Things have changed, granted.. But those times sucked!

[coolchef]

i was never wow or corps but the gathering place in our area was at my house

we enjoyed it all

but let me say this

i always did what i wanted to do when i wanted to do it

i never fell for all the laws

unfortunatly my ex did and i guess that is why she is my ex

but thier were good times if you allowed them to roll

[Ron G.]

Doojable sez...

"The sad thing is that I heard of a time when a certain "leader" in CA said that he couldn't pray for a man's son unless he got permission from Loy Boy - Geez!"

That would have been me. At a picnic in Oakland in late '93 or early '94, Paul G*les was doing a deication for some babies. I went to him and requested Andrew be dedicated. He refused rather abruptly, telling me he needed LCM's direct permission for that. Evidently, Andrew needed to be "checked out" first.

What ....ed me off even more was when I moved from CA back to Arkansas...a very sensible decision by ANYONES standards, I got word that I was on probation for moving out of state without the direct permission and approval from on high (Harvey Pl*tig, the CA Limb Boss and whoever else...probably LCM). But then I'd already gotten on HP's bad side by that time. There was some sort of "class" I was required to attend and I went to the first session. All it was was LCM sitting on a square bale of hay all dressed up like a cowboy and cussing and carrying on about something...don't know what...I kept dozing off. I missed the next session...the next day, cuz I didn't feel motivated to drive 90 miles to listen to some stupid LCM rant for 6 hours or however long it was only to be refreshed with cookies and coffee. If I'm gonna listen to some good cussin' I'll just stay home and do it myself....that way I get to sleep in and save gas. That's basically what I told HP when he called me up to fuss about me missing that "class". He told me "We don't take missing a class like that lightly"...but saw fit to forgive me and drop it when I couldn't stop laughing at him.

I was thankful.

I was, after all, hiring assorted twiggies from the area and paying them pretty good money at the time. That must have counted for something, I spose.

I'm glad those days are over...and have been for over a decade, now.

Whew.

[Bramble]

The two by two thing was a nightmare--so after school on non TWI nights was when we had to drag the whole family grocery shopping...

Then there were the schedules to turn into the HFC everyweek. Okay, next Wed at 10 am I'm folding laundry...

Two Way mag subscriptions so spouse and I could both 'work' it. We were supposed to listen to the tape separately and together as a couple,too..

Then there was that household inventory--what every drawer and cupboard contained etc, to give to the HFC for the Y2K crisis.

There is much, much more but it makes me tired to think about it.

[ChasUFarley]

Yes, the 2-by-2 thing was a nightmare.

I was always in trouble for that one - but there's somethings that you just don't want to do with someone else. For example, it would have weirded my mother out if I had brought someone along to go visit her. When I lived in MA, I had to submit a permission slip telling leadership where I was going, when, for how long, etc. - I thought it was crazy, but I wasn't going to bring someone along - good grief. It would have been different if I had someone who was a real friend - there weren't many of those - MA was quite the back-stabbing area back in the late 90's. There's a few good people in there, but not many - you gotta watch everything you say and do.

Anyhow, I even got in trouble for going to my high school reunion by myself. Now, if a divorced female shows up at a reunion with another female, what do you think is going on? Yeah, I'd assume they were an "item" - right? So, understandably, I wasn't going to bring someone with me who wasn't a "date" - sorry. I had a great time, and I'm glad I went solo - but I "paid" for it in other ways.

I don't remember if I told anyone this or not, but about 6-8 months ago I sold a bunch of old books and Way Mags on eBay. I sold about a dozen or so mags to someone from the old town I used to live in with my Ex. I knew that my Ex was still living there and knew the buyer well. So, I struck up a little email conversation with him - "Hey, How ya doin'? Remember me?" you know, that sort of thing. Well, he wrote back - which was nice. There were some real nice people in Tuscaloosa, AL - even if the town itself is sorta a hole.

But the thing that got me, was when the guy wrote back and said something like, "We're really tight here - we're always together and always go everywhere two-by-two."

So, here they are in 2006. Same feces, different day.

[Twinky]

Hmm, think if anyone in my twig had asked permission to go to a cake-making class on a twig night I would have said no, outright.

(Joke)

No, that is, unless she brought the fruits of her labor back to twig occasionally and got all the women complaining about breaking their diets! :) :) :) :) (She would have been more than happy to do so, I'm sure! What a lovely lady she sounds)

How pathetic can it go when an adult has to ask permission to take a cake decorating class.

A cake decorating class??..What..was Christ gonna go out of business if she took it???

Ditto

Doojabble:

he couldn't pray for a man's son unless he got permission from Loy Boy

You have got to be joking ... haven't you?

I do remember at HQ he kicked Rev Thomas out because his daughter had died as a result of a drug overdose. People were forbidden on pain of being M&A'd themselves from contacting Rev Thomas's family to convey condolences. Reason: it was Rev Thomas's poor oversight that had caused his daughter's death. Therefore he was not worthy either of his ministry (peeling spuds) or of compassion from the household.

Edited October 18, 2006 by Twinky

[waysider]

Coolchef---------"There were good times if you allowed them to roll".

I'll second that,brother and plenty of them. Unfortunately for some those good times were at the local level and started to vanish as we "moved up the ladder " of responsability. For me it all changed when I moved on to Fellowlaborers. Suddenly I was in a situation where there were 3 meetings per day,breakfast as a house,dinner as a "branch", required witnessing at our "9-5's",work assignments out the wazoo,not to mention a zero tolerance policy on any kind of drugs,sex, or alcohol. Add to that no dating non FL,no socializing with non FL,no unauthorized trips outside the enclave ,roustings in the middle of the night for reproof sessions or house inspections and virtually no time for any academic consideration or teaching of the Word at all.(And this was 30+ years ago!)

And the 2 at all times thing.----YIKES!-----I remember one time my limb leader had me quit my job and move 50+ miles away (just me,myself and I) to set up shop and run classes because there were no believers in that area who had taken the AC. I guess somehow the AC made me more qualified to make sure the chairs were straight and the coffee was ready by breaktime. I just hope any of the locals can forgive me for the time I spent there.

The point I'm driving at is that legalism has been a basic tenet of TWI for a very long time.

But Yeah!----There were lots and lots of genuinely good times to be had at the grassroots level and allow them to roll we often did.

[skipC]

Bastards...Total Bastards they are.

[Lori]

There are so many legalism stories, and it would be hard to remember them all!

Abuse and neglect were the name of the game especially in the 90's until 2004 when I left.

Isn't it funny people's needs weren't met, but they would sure choke on some "stupid"(reflecting on them) point of interest? It seems they were always looking for dirt....

I remember sitting in our branch coordinator's living room with the area believers.

We were all reproved because the "quality" in our lives were lacking. We were threatened (they said they would leave our area and go somewhere else, leaving us in the dry desert...) Now that I think about it, the fruit they delivered was no oasis! Ego, I tell you! Of course we all felt obligated and under the gun! I wonder if our fruit would have improved had they left!

We were all given instructions to do "daily" study and to write down what was studied. These reports were to be handed in to this branch coordinator every week. We were all followed up in personal meetings, two by two, when judgments were given on our progress.......

I think it's ironic this limb coordinator's wife made judgments about people with little or no information. Upon first meeting her, one of her first questions to me regarding another believer was, "is she a lesbian?" Where was the love of God in this woman's life? Later, (several months) she informed me she had me figured out within a few minutes of our first meeting. These leaders were quick to judge past leaders in our area, believers who left, other leadership still in twi, even bringing them up by name in teachings....The wife especially had anger issues, and was often hurtful in how she handled people.

I noticed there were problems in their fellowship they didn't identify, and it took them months to figure those out! So much for her quick judgment!

Okay, a little wordy, but here's one of my stories!!

When someone doesn't make the word their own, they are definitely "game" to be used.

The love of God comes from knowing him first! It's not supposed to be "someone" telling you what to think!

And yes, IT MAKES ME MAD!!!!!

Edited October 18, 2006 by Lori

[E. W. Bullinger]

Dear Pink Lady:

I understand that you just left the Way. Is it still as legalistic as it was in the 90’s? If things are different what did they say for their explanation of why they changed?

Dear Ron:

To have to ask Loy boy for permission to pray over your son……that does take the legalistic cake! I wonder if my friend Ellen learned how to make ‘legalistic cake’ in her cake class?

Dear Trust and Obey:

Our area was small (three twigs) so you had to tell everyone everything. Also we were top heavy with Corp grads. Each Corp ran a twig.

Dear ChasUFarley:

How did you “pay” for going to the school reunion alone?

Dear Twinky:

Ellen always used to bring along the fruits of her labor to the Believers. When it was her turn to bring refreshments for a class or meeting there were always high expectations for what she would bring.

Your story about Rev Thomas was very sad. Following the loss of his daughter is when he MOST needed the love of the household.

Dear Lori:

I hope the ‘quality’ of your life has improved since you left! Were things still legalistic in 2004?

Dear Bramble:

You hit the nail on the head. When you said that you were too tired to think about those days. I laughed so hard after I read your comment.

That this whole situation could occur is what amazes me. What does this say about what the Way believed about God? That you can’t be under His protection if your travel alone? Also many of their rules flied in the face of logic. Lets look at the cake example. I bet Ellen could have met many more people who would be more receptive to speak with her because they shared a common interest. That is always more successful that witnessing door-to-door or at wondermall.

Sincerely,

E. W. Bullinger

[ChasUFarley]

Dear EWB --

How much coffee have you had today?

How much Coke-a-Cola have you drank today?

Is your sugar intake high today?

Are you taking any diet medications, such as effedrine?

Do you really like asking questions? :unsure:

Has anyone ever told you that you might ask too many questions?

Do you stay up at night thinking of questions?

Do you expect answers to your questions?

Do you think I might just be messing with you because I can?

I PAID for going to that reunion by getting called on the carpet by leadership for it - all the WC in the state was there for it - yup, cuz little ol' me went to a reunion. I believe I said something to the effect of, "Well, if this is the worst thing going on at this time in this state, then you've got it pretty good." I was told that I was rebellous and aloof (me? aloof? puleeeeze!) and even was given a ration of crap from the LC's wife because she thought the greeting card I made for them was "cold" and had "no heart" - even though I probably spent over 6 hours working on one damn card. Gee thanks. She was a battle axe, anyhow - still is.

Did I answer your question? :)

[Attack Gypsy]

Ok, if someone had EVER told me twig 3 times a week, including manditory witnessing night, I would have to them to shove it somewhere.

Glad I was out by that time. I would have probably had a few fistfights, that's for sure. Of course, I'm a "make me" kind of person when confronted and told to leave.

[frank123lol]

A.G. They would have sent you packing pronto,what a bunch of jerks.I heard they were told to run

people off! I got yelled at once for not having a good enough crease in my pants!

Love of God my foot,Strain at a knot swallow a camel

Remember twi love covers a multitude of sins,or just yours and then you attack everyone else?

Get the beam out of your own eye first.

[Calflor]

In the early 80's I had been running a twig in a small midwestern town for a few years when we were sent WOWs...long and short of it, I was not allowed to have any influence with "LCs WOWs". One of the WOWs had history of heart problems. She became very ill and needed to be taken to the hospital. I called the LC and told him I was taking her to the hospital, he proceeded to tell me I was interfering with his WOWs and he would make the decision to let her go to the hospital. He was 50 miles away and had not even come to visit her...anyway, I said F this jerk I'm taking her to the hospital. The Dr. said she needed immediate IV dose of antibiotics and fluids to prevent her condition from worsening. None of this mattered to the LC, he was more worried about the Dr. calling him a cult leader than the girl's condition. He immediately came over to my house after visiting the hospital and reemed me for taking her to the hospital. Being a product of the rebellous 70's (one reason I got involved in the first place), I told him to F off. Even, better the girl wanted to leave the field and go back to NY after getting out of the hospital. I bought her a 1 way plane ticket. She was very sick and wanted to go home to her family, who wanted to take care of her. To this day I believe I did the right thing for her.

[Attack Gypsy]

A.G. They would have sent you packing pronto,what a bunch of jerks.I heard they were told to run

people off! I got yelled at once for not having a good enough crease in my pants!

Love of God my foot,Strain at a knot swallow a camel

Remember twi love covers a multitude of sins,or just yours and then you attack everyone else?

Get the beam out of your own eye first.

I had one Corps grad (I won't mention names) actually try and physically throw me out of my parent's house once. Why? Because I stubbed my barefoot toe on the kitchen table leg and cursed. And it really wasn't anything bad. All I said was "Oww, s@@@, that hurt."

Idiot.

Did I mentionthat at that time I was 6'5", over 275 pounds, and had many years of martial arts training?

Out of respect for my parents, I didn't hurt him. I just put him on his butt. Then he started yelling at my father about how I was "possessed because a true believer would never raise a hand to a man of god".

My father decked him for that. When he got up, my mom whacked him behind the knee with her cane. I picked him up and threw him out the door.

We never went back. This was all before the "mark and avoid" garbage.

[ChasUFarley]

Please tell me you got all that on tape.... please?!

[Belle]

Aawwww, geeze.... there are just too many to choose from. Should I post ones where I was responsible for being a legalistic TWIt law enforcing jerkwad or the ones where I was subjected to following those same idiotic whims?

[topoftheworld]

I recall an incident in the Corps.

During lunch, our Corps Coordinator read a letter from an interim Corps person. She was thanking the leadership for her growth, talking about how her year was going, sharing stories about her current situation and the job she had obtained, and expressing gratitude for the blessings God had given her and how she continued to grow every day. It was a wonderful, heartwarming letter.

After he read it to us, he then said, "The entire letter is a lie". His reason: she wrote the letter on her company stationary. Because she "stole" that piece of paper from her company, it invalidated EVERYTHING that she said.

Nice, huh? Throw out the heart and stomp her in public for a perceived infraction. I was truly shocked at the cruelty that was expressed, but being the koolaid drinker I was, I made sure to never take so much as a paper clip from any job I've ever had, even after I'd left TWI. Bred some "legalism" in me for a long time. I wouldn't allow friends to call me or come visit at my jobs. Never took time off for personal matters (except funerals). And expected the same behavior from my employees. Made me a good employee in the eyes of my bosses, but really put me in a box in other ways. Just a small moment in a lunchroom, but it had a lasting effect.

[likeaneagle]

here is just a few..

how much debt...how much have you paid off?

travel forms every 3 wks to see Fiance'

a friend had to pay off 10,000 in debt for his wife to go to ADV.Class.

fellowships on cleaniness

bow or else.

dont miss fellowship..I had Bronchitis and was yelled at for missing.

bondage is legalism.

[waysider]

When the company I work for changes logos or slogans, they discard the outdated stationary.

Employees are welcome to take it home and use as scratch pads, coloring paper for kids, copy paper,you name it. Not much of it actually goes to waste and it's a little perk that employees seem to appreciate.

I'm sure that coordinator must have known this stationary didn't come from such a source because in the absence of the accused thief he must have surely gotten some heavy revvy.

HEY! put the paperclips down slowly and keep your hands where I can see them.